proper setup for Spoon Civic Type R..,

[Skygrasper550]

I'll see what I can come up with. I did tinker around with it at one point, but sold it since it was not as good as I hoped.

thanks a lot.., you know why i work hard on this car?? because i want to add it in my list of the cars in my.., you know what.

I don't know if the transmission trick would do that or not, but unless you don't have all the drivetrain options it's as good as it will get- do you know what the tranmission trick is?

Edit: Psyche, me and Leo got same post time.

(speaks rapidly) transmission trick?? what is that?? tell me, i need to know..,

 

[GT40 MKII]

hmm ill fiddle with it on my end as well i noticed the vibration as well, i turn vibration off
ill pm you if i get anything

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

(speaks rapidly) transmission trick?? what is that?? tell me, i need to know..,

Transmission trick, first reset the gear ratios to default. Now, max out the final drive ratio to 5.500 it should be. From there take autoset to 25 then back to 1. Now set the final drive to whatever you want. Don't modify each individual gear. It results in some wide first and second gears helping to couteract wheelspin, and also makes each gear really close while still having normal top end. If the gears are close it might help as you wouldn't have to wait for the revs to drop and therefore theoretically improving shift times. 👍

 

[Megasoft Office]

But then you'd be using the V-TEC's narrow powerband less effectively with wider drive gears. So you're trading off response for straight-line traction.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Actually, no.

The first gears are longer, but closer together.

 

[Leonidae]

I'm almost ready with this car. i'm also going to update my SS trueno setup later tonight. stay tuned ( pun intended..)

 

[Skygrasper550]

Transmission trick, first reset the gear ratios to default. Now, max out the final drive ratio to 5.500 it should be. From there take autoset to 25 then back to 1. Now set the final drive to whatever you want. Don't modify each individual gear. It results in some wide first and second gears helping to couteract wheelspin, and also makes each gear really close while still having normal top end. If the gears are close it might help as you wouldn't have to wait for the revs to drop and therefore theoretically improving shift times. 👍

you do know that i only want the Spoon Civic to have a top speed of 220 KPH, not MPH, .., is it ok if i adjust the autoset after i put it to 1?

I'm almost ready with this car. i'm also going to update my SS trueno setup later tonight. stay tuned ( pun intended..)

hmm.., a FT SS Trueno is a good match for a Spoon Civic with a NA Stage 2, their times almost match at Citta di Aria, around 1:37 .., BTW, the purpose of my Spoon Civic is to race in Citta di Aria and other courses alike, so stiff suspension settings would not be ideal..,

 

[Rotary Junkie]

@ =drifting24/7=:

Do NOT readjust the autoset, only the final drive. In fact, the top speed should be around 140mph with a final of about 4.560...

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

you do know that i only want the Spoon Civic to have a top speed of 220 KPH, not MPH, .., is it ok if i adjust the autoset after i put it to 1?

You won't have to adjust autoset again, and if you do you won't have changed a single thing in the gears. Only adjust the final ratio, you can make it however wide or close you like by doing that.

 

[Skygrasper550]

@ =drifting24/7=:

Do NOT readjust the autoset, only the final drive. In fact, the top speed should be around 140mph with a final of about 4.560...

You won't have to adjust autoset again, and if you do you won't have changed a single thing in the gears. Only adjust the final ratio, you can make it however wide or close you like by doing that.

so, if i DID re-adjust the autoset, do i have to start over again, put it in default, then make the necessary adjustments?? after that, i will only adjust the final drive, not the autoset?? sorry if i am a noob for asking this, but are the autoset and final drive the same, they can widen or shorten all of the gears??

 

[Skygrasper550]

Transmission trick, first reset the gear ratios to default. Now, max out the final drive ratio to 5.500 it should be. From there take autoset to 25 then back to 1. Now set the final drive to whatever you want. Don't modify each individual gear. It results in some wide first and second gears helping to couteract wheelspin, and also makes each gear really close while still having normal top end. If the gears are close it might help as you wouldn't have to wait for the revs to drop and therefore theoretically improving shift times. 👍

hey, it works!! my Spoon Civic got a faster lap time at Citta di Aria, the transmission trick really did the "trick"!! thanks a lot.., 👍

I'm almost ready with this car. i'm also going to update my SS trueno setup later tonight. stay tuned ( pun intended..)

are the two cars ready?

 

[Leonidae]

Trueno/SS trueno is finished and setup updated. This thing is next..

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

hey, it works!! my Spoon Civic got a faster lap time at Citta di Aria, the transmission trick really did the "trick"!! thanks a lot.., 👍



are the two cars ready?

Glad to hear it, you may have answered your own question from before in doing it as well, the one about autoset and final drive. Autoset resets the gears to a predetermined length regardless of what ratios you have in. So if you wanted to keep the same shape of the graph (so to speak, same basic layout of gears), you only adjust final. By the sounds of it you figured it out though 👍 Notice how the gears are really wide but close together while still keeping whatever "final" you want (top speed).

 

[Skygrasper550]

Trueno/SS trueno is finished and setup updated. This thing is next..

you must be having a hard time with the Spoon Civic.., i will anticipate it.., ;D

Glad to hear it, you may have answered your own question from before in doing it as well, the one about autoset and final drive. Autoset resets the gears to a predetermined length regardless of what ratios you have in. So if you wanted to keep the same shape of the graph (so to speak, same basic layout of gears), you only adjust final. By the sounds of it you figured it out though 👍 Notice how the gears are really wide but close together while still keeping whatever "final" you want (top speed).

i finally get what you mean by "wider but closer" .., the final drive does not affect the time loss during shifting, while the autoset literally "widens" the gears.., so in short, if you want to adjust the gears, adjust the final drive instead of the autoset, right??

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Well, I ususally run as closely-spaced of ratios as I can, but that doesn't mean I can't have top speed capability as well. I'll sometimes have a first gear so LOONG that it wouldn't really be launchable on the street, but it doesn't matter once you're rolling, and it HELPS launch in GT4 most of the time.

Anyhow, how I personally do most gearing: Final to highest # possible. Autoset to 1-5, lengthen 1st-3rd to their longest extents, and shorten the top gear as much as possible. Then I adjust the final gear to set top speed.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Well, I ususally run as closely-spaced of ratios as I can, but that doesn't mean I can't have top speed capability as well. I'll sometimes have a first gear so LOONG that it wouldn't really be launchable on the street, but it doesn't matter once you're rolling, and it HELPS launch in GT4 most of the time.

Anyhow, how I personally do most gearing: Final to highest # possible. Autoset to 1-5, lengthen 1st-3rd to their longest extents, and shorten the top gear as much as possible. Then I adjust the final gear to set top speed.

hmm, how you do your gearing is kind of complicated, because i myself do not set each individual gear, i just rely on the autoset, haha

 

[Leonidae]

I' think I'll just add my suspension/LSD/Brake setup here, after all, the gearing usually has to be individual for each track. GVS gives good overall setup, but.. and how can this car understeer this badly? must be all the lightness.. Focus ST/RS, Lupo/Polo/Golf GTi, recular civic with similar power.. none of them understeer this badly.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'm just curious why you only want your top speed of 220km/h, when a worked Spoon R will do more than that within a 1/4 mile?? Most of us in the 1/4 mile board with Spoon R's have run well over 225km/h on the 1/4 and if you want it bouncing off the limiter through a few of the straights, you'll lose time. Go for about 260-270km/h top speed.

Mafs!!

 

[Leonidae]

there's more to do with a car than just 1/4mile, Mr. Toretto..

Spoon Civic Type R'00

228 bhp, 169 Nm, 820 kg​

Parts to fit:
Racing Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Triple-plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
FC LSD
FC Suspension
S3 Tyres
Oil Change

Suspension
Spring Rate: 13.0 / 10,0
Ride Height: 115 / 150
Bound: 6 / 3
Rebound: 8 / 8
Camber: 2.0 / 1.0
Toe: -2 / -1
Stabilizers: 2 / 5

Brake Controller
Brakes: 5 / 9

LSD
Initial: 25
Acceleration: 20
Deceleration: 10

Driving Aids
ASM Oversteer: 0
ASM Understeer: 0
TCS: 0

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

you must be having a hard time with the Spoon Civic.., i will anticipate it.., ;D



i finally get what you mean by "wider but closer" .., the final drive does not affect the time loss during shifting, while the autoset literally "widens" the gears.., so in short, if you want to adjust the gears, adjust the final drive instead of the autoset, right??

Right. 👍 Normally I try to avoid the transmisson trick at all costs, it just doesn't feel right to me.

I'm just curious why you only want your top speed of 220km/h, when a worked Spoon R will do more than that within a 1/4 mile?? Most of us in the 1/4 mile board with Spoon R's have run well over 225km/h on the 1/4 and if you want it bouncing off the limiter through a few of the straights, you'll lose time. Go for about 260-270km/h top speed.

Mafs!!

Because this car is a touge machine.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Stock power isn't enough for those monster times, Mafs.

 

[Skygrasper550]

I'm just curious why you only want your top speed of 220km/h, when a worked Spoon R will do more than that within a 1/4 mile?? Most of us in the 1/4 mile board with Spoon R's have run well over 225km/h on the 1/4 and if you want it bouncing off the limiter through a few of the straights, you'll lose time. Go for about 260-270km/h top speed.

Mafs!!

answer is below this sentence:

Because this car is a touge machine.

yes it is.., isnt that right, NH4S?? 👍 that is because i do not like max setups that much, i prefer balance all the time..,

there's more to do with a car than just 1/4mile, Mr. Toretto..

nice one, haha .., drag racing for me is kind of boring, i like tight courses very much..,

Spoon Civic Type R'00

228 bhp, 169 Nm, 820 kg

hey, it is finally here!! MUST..COPY..TO....NOTEBOOK...THEN..GO HOME...AND...SETUP... (glances at the setup) but, no NA Stage 2??

BTW, are you going to add this on MFT?? just asking..,

 

[Skygrasper550]

Parts to buy:
RC Exhaust
Brakes
brake balance controller
NA Tuning stage 3
Port polish heads
engine balancing
FC Suspension (not original tuner hall suspension)
FC Gearbox
Triple clutch
FC flywheel
FC LSD
Racing medium tyres
Oil change

Settings:

brake balance: 5/3

Suspension:
Spring rates: 16.0/14.4
Ride height: 85/90
Damper (bound): 3/4
Damper (rebound): 6/8
Camber: 2.5/1.0
Toe: 0/0
Stabiliser: 2/4

Gear ratios (the one thing I'm sure is right): First set auto, then set each individual ratio
Auto: 15
1st: 3.511
2nd: 2.402
3rd: 1.850
4th: 1.474
5th: 1.203
6th: 0.998
Final: 4.650

LSD:
Initial torque: 5
Acceleration: 60
Decleration: 20

As driven- all driving aids at 0, unless owner wants them on, up to him.

your setup compared to Leonidas's has a very big difference.., is it still an experimental setup??

 

[Leonidae]

hey, it is finally here!! MUST..COPY..TO....NOTEBOOK...THEN..GO HOME...AND...SETUP... (glances at the setup) but, no NA Stage 2??

BTW, are you going to add this on MFT?? just asking..,

Probably not, since my personal opinion is that the regular Civic is better to drive. Same goes for SS Trueno. Super lightweight cars ( aside from Elise, Elan ,Europa, Tommykaira ZZ-S, alpine etc ) seem to suffer from the lack of weight, which makes driving and tuning them rather tricky. the roadcars seem to respon better to tuning, and in case of these two high revving cars.. well, the SS Trueno is better to drive, and roadgoing Trueno is slighly better than SS model despite higher weight.

My guess is that my driving relies somewhat heavily on weight shifting, and if there isn't much weight to shift, understeer is the word. And I didn't use any engine mods since the car was suffering of wheelspin even with stock power. and modifying this car with NA tune would make the powerband even less useful.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

your setup compared to Leonidas's has a very big difference.., is it still an experimental setup??

Apart from me and Leo having seemingly different views on tuning at times (more than one way to skin a cat ) And some drivers desire a different tune to suit their driving style. I made that tune a while back and have tried learning more ways to tune FF cars since then. I noticed though that Leo used toe to generate turning momentum (did I say that right? *shrugs shoulders*) and kept a relatively high intial torque on the diff- to help wheelspin undoubtedly. My view and past experiences are that increasing initial torque doesn't help stop wheelspin unless the car is taily, which FF cars aren't. So I use the acceleration diff setting to try and stop wheelspin (which also does very little at all either) and other various things and then use a low initial torque so the car turns better at all times and speeds (or at least that's the way I see it). I can then use the suspension to add "finishing touches" and eventually somewhere along the line get a result. Mind you that's only how I tune SOME cars, every car demands a different tune so I sorta take it as it goes and use my knowledge of how things work to improve each car from what it was. And there you have it, a small insight to the tuning mind of me. Why did I say all that is beyond me and these views are always subject to change if enough evidence is given by tuning vehicles to prove otherwise. What works in practice is normally what gets done. I'd go with Leo's tune there as he would know more about FFs than I do even today, and that tune I did was before I knew jack about tuning FFs. Still, I tried and that's what counts. I learned a fair bit from tuning a Pontiac Vibe GT, but I'd like to know more about FF tuning principles and how to cure what oddities in FF handling. I'm rambling again aren't I?

 

[Leonidae]

Apart from me and Leo having seemingly different views on tuning at times (more than one way to skin a cat ) And some drivers desire a different tune to suit their driving style.

No need to tell me about it.

I noticed though that Leo used toe to generate turning momentum (did I say that right? *shrugs shoulders*) and kept a relatively high intial torque on the diff- to help wheelspin undoubtedly. My view and past experiences are that increasing initial torque doesn't help stop wheelspin unless the car is taily, which FF cars aren't. So I use the acceleration diff setting to try and stop wheelspin (which also does very little at all either) and other various things and then use a low initial torque so the car turns better at all times and speeds (or at least that's the way I see it).

Well, According to our Super2000-oriented teacher, negative toe is the way to make any car turn. in some cars he'd apply that to rear suspension too. I felt that ti works better than other things I tried. And about the LSD.. the initial value determines how rapidly the diff reacts to wheelspin, no? higher value = quicker reaction. Also, high-ish accel value helps the front wheels to pull the nose in by distributing all of that immense 169nms of torque evenly to both multitasking wheels. I drove most of the corners on third gear, flooring it. occasionally small slipping was detected, but nothing serious. this car delivered low 2'10.xxx time on GVS with that setup.

I can then use the suspension to add "finishing touches" and eventually somewhere along the line get a result. Mind you that's only how I tune SOME cars, every car demands a different tune so I sorta take it as it goes and use my knowledge of how things work to improve each car from what it was.

That's the way I work as well. of course, there's some hopeless cases that simply reject anything I throw at them, AKA ford GT, Cizeta Moroder V16T..

I'd go with Leo's tune there as he would know more about FFs than I do even today, and that tune I did was before I knew jack about tuning FFs.

*cough* I tried my best too, I've gone head on with this car before. this far this is the best I've managed to do, I hope it helps. Frankly speaking, I believe that I could make Focus ST, 206 RC, Megane 2.0 16V and few other front drives faster than this with similar power levels. My belief is that this car is simply too light for it's power and layout.

Still, I tried and that's what counts. I learned a fair bit from tuning a Pontiac Vibe GT, but I'd like to know more about FF tuning principles and how to cure what oddities in FF handling. I'm rambling again aren't I?

Indeed. should you want a fun car to study and tinker with, I can warmly recommend VW Lupo GTi. bone stock from factory, it did beat Alfa V6's in the FF league of beginner hall.. and tuned.. well, it vanished to horizon.

 

[eg6_dude]

Hey guys! Been awhile... anyhow Leo's setup is defintly a good setup for street tires, and most likely works well with race tires (R3s,R2s). When tuning FFs, ecspecially lightweight civics I find that soft spring rates and shock settings work the best. The spring rates on the Spoon civic are incredibly stiff compared to other civics in the game.

As for the powerband of the car...it isn't big, but if you are dedicated and smart you can use it well enough to still acheive great lap times. Every tranny "trick" and tuning philosophy must be utilized though.

Overall I guess I would make a couple tweaks to Leo's setup starting with a tire stagger..

-EG6_DUDE

 

[Leonidae]

indeed it has been a while. I tried softer setup, and IMO the steering response suffered. Tire staggering isn't needed, just floor it on third and the front will tuck into the corner.

PS. my SS Trueno is faster

 

[eg6_dude]

Perhaps you are correct. I have not attempted a spoon tune in a while. Although steering response suffered I am curious..did the mid-corner speed increase? About the tire stagger, indeed the S3's don't have enough grip to over power the fronts in corner like R3s so you are most likely correct. I remember the spoon being a tricky car, but I think since there is 14 inches of snow outside I may leave work soon and go whip up a quick tune at may home..

-EG6_DUDE

 

[Leonidae]

In corners that car needed quite much lock to turn, so the speeds stayed as they were. S3's had enough grip on 3rd gear, which actually was in the original request for this car. check the first post to see the rest.