Real Guns

[Zenith]

Now explain to me why people say .40 S&W have snappy recoil damnit.

I believe it's due to it being a high pressure round. The .40S&W is SAAMI rated at 35,000psi, .45 Auto is 20,000psi.

 

[Brett]

What kind of mags does it take? AR mags would be cheap.....

The Tavor takes surplus STANAG, P-Mags, or whatever. Just trying to decide if I should go with P-Mags or Lancer AWM. It does not have the same compability problems that the AUG or F2000 has with magazines.

I don't know how it would work for your rifle, but for my AR, I was considering Condor 42" case.

That is probably a little on the large side. Remember my rifle is only 26 1/8" long.

Also, nice gun @Brett!

Thanks!

 

[Zenith]

The Tavor takes surplus STANAG, P-Mags, or whatever. Just trying to decide if I should go with P-Mags or Lancer AWM. It does not have the same compability problems that the AUG or F2000 has with magazines.

You can't go wrong with either. The magazine's job is to reliably feed the gun. Both do this just fine. I would think that the ability to see through the lancer to check how many rounds are left would be less useful on bullpup.

 

[Michael88]

I believe it's due to it being a high pressure round. The .40S&W is SAAMI rated at 35,000psi, .45 Auto is 20,000psi.

I just ran the numbers and calculated the recoil:

40 S&W: 165 @ 1150 @ 485 ft lbs
.45ACP: 230 @ 830 @ 350 ft lbs
9x19: 124 @ 1200 @ 382 ft lbs

Recoil: Glock 17, 1.6lbs, unloaded. (I used 7 grains as powder charge for all cartridges)
40S&W: 9.39 ft lbs - recoil velocity 19.44 fps
.45ACP: 9.49 ft lbs - recoil velocity 19.54 fps
9x19: 6.19 ft lbs - recoil velocity: 15.79 fps

Very similar, except the 9x19 which as 1/3 less recoil than the big boys. According to the calculator 40 and 45 should feel exactly the same as recoil force AND speed are equal.

 

[Zenith]

I just ran the numbers and calculated the recoil:

40 S&W: 165 @ 1150 @ 485 ft lbs
.45ACP: 230 @ 830 @ 350 ft lbs
9x19: 124 @ 1200 @ 382 ft lbs

Recoil: Glock 17, 1.6lbs, unloaded. (I used 7 grains as powder charge for all cartridges)
40S&W: 9.39 ft lbs - recoil velocity 19.44 fps
.45ACP: 9.49 ft lbs - recoil velocity 19.54 fps
9x19: 6.19 ft lbs - recoil velocity: 15.79 fps

Very similar, except the 9x19 which as 1/3 less recoil than the big boys. According to the calculator 40 and 45 should feel exactly the same as recoil force AND speed are equal.

I think you're right in terms of total recoil. As for the "snap" of the .40 compared to the push of the .45, I think it has to do with how quickly that bullet is going to take off in the barrel due to the high pressure loading. This is all speculation though.

 

[Michael88]

Well, the snap should be explained with the speed of the recoil, which is pretty much the same. Can't really say I've felt much of a difference in recoil with all those calibers, they all feel the same to me, 9x19 feels a little tamer and 7.62x25 is a snappy fireball-throwing beast. But differences in service handguns cartridges feel pretty trivial and insignificant if you've been shooting lightweight large caliber rifles -that have more than ten times the muzzle energy- for the past 8 years .

 

[a6m5]

Not to mention you are a big boy.

Nobody I go shooting with have the .40, so I've never shot one, and I was just wondering. To be honest though, for while, I did look at the Glock 23(a .40 S&W). To me, that pistol has perfect proportion(hate their smaller .45s w/short grip), and when other calibers are sold out, boxes of .40s are often still on the store shelves.

The Tavor takes surplus STANAG, P-Mags, or whatever. Just trying to decide if I should go with P-Mags or Lancer AWM. It does not have the same compability problems that the AUG or F2000 has with magazines.

Very cool. 👍

That is probably a little on the large side. Remember my rifle is only 26 1/8" long.

Not that I'm recommending the product or anything, but that Condor also comes in 36" size.

 

[a6m5]

I hit the range today. H&K USP shot nice. I have zero doubt that Solid didn't like how it recoiled, but I also believe that different firearms can affect people differently sometimes.

For me, USP shot much like a Glock 21 with a much nicer trigger & much milder recoil. It also shot flawlessly, so: 1) I am in love. 2) I have a new go-to home defense weapon.

Another thing, this gun is ACCURATE. I've never shot as well as I shot with this gun today. 👍





My .22LR Ruger SR22 didn't do so good. Still having feeding issues. Today, I tried Federal, Federal American Eagle(high velocity), and also CCI. Last time I shot it, I didn't do a good job keeping track of this, but it seemed to do fine with the Remington Golden Bullet & Blazer. I was somewhat sure that it was Federal it had trouble with, more than once.

Today, it was Federal for sho. Once with the standard Federal, second time, surprisingly with the high velocity American Eagle. At this point, I'm not sure if it's the gun, magazine, or the ammo....... Come to think of it, I could have kept track on the magazine, too. I did not.

At the Walmart near this shooting range, I saw some .22's! I bought the max limit of 3 boxes........ 3 boxes of Blazer, 50-rounds. Better than nothing.

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

Were the CCI rounds minimags (and non hollow point)? If those don't work in the gun I don't know what will As far as .22 semi's go I've never heard anything particularly bad about the SR22. I'd definitely try to get another new magazine or two and keep track of that stuff.

CCI box says 40 grain 1070fps, standard velocity, round nose. These guys worked good. I do need to keep track of the mags for sure. 👍

I haven't really read anything bad about these guns either, but I've seen only two in action. Mine, and this another shooter at the range couple of years ago. He had trouble with his, too. That's 2 for 2 man. ....not at all scientific.

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

How many rounds do you think you've had through that gun so far? I know it's easier said than done right now but you might want to track down something a little hotter like the minimags (think they are 1250 fps) to see if they cycle more reliably. Have you ever ejected an unfired lead nose round after chambering it to see if there's any visible damage from some sort of hang up happening?

I haven't inspected the unfired ammo. So far, I've probably shot something like 400~500 rounds, but it's a guess.

What it's doing is, it fails to load the second round into the chamber. It's weird, it only does it on the second round(first round the gun itself has to load). I've yet to try any minimags, as I haven't found any. Standard velocity CCI worked fine. High velocity American Eagle, or Federal in general it doesn't seem to like.

I'll start monitoring this little bit closer. 1) It very well could be the Federal ammo my gun doesn't like. 2) Magazine's something I should've been watching. I'll definitely start doing that. 👍

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

I'd also be curious then if it still does that if you load one less round into the magazine.

You are full of good ideas. I'm gonna write this stuff down on a 'post it' note, stick it on the gun case, so I can test it out next time I shoot it. 👍

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

It's the standard "failure to X" playbook Glad to help out! .22 semi pistols can be pretty picky but this sounds like a consistent issue from what you've described. If nothing else I'd give Ruger a call and see what they say. They are supposed to be awesome on the customer service side.

I do plan on that, unless this is a problem I can reasonably work around. Thanks bro. 👍

 

[Brett]

What it's doing is, it fails to load the second round into the chamber. It's weird, it only does it on the second round(first round the gun itself has to load). I've yet to try any minimags, as I haven't found any. Standard velocity CCI worked fine. High velocity American Eagle, or Federal in general it doesn't seem to like.

I have had this problem with my P22 with the second round. It only did it with a Federal HV Match rounds. The P22, and I would say by extension, the SR22, is very picky on what ammunition it will reliably cycle. The P22 does wonderfully with CCI Mini-Mags. CCI Standard Velocity also work pretty well, but not quite as well as Mini Mags.

 

[a6m5]

I have had this problem with my P22 with the second round. It only did it with a Federal HV Match rounds. The P22, and I would say by extension, the SR22, is very picky on what ammunition it will reliably cycle. The P22 does wonderfully with CCI Mini-Mags. CCI Standard Velocity also work pretty well, but not quite as well as Mini Mags.

I totally bought the claim by Ruger how SR22 pretty much ate anything, but good chance you may be right. For plinking, it's not at all a big deal to me, but for defensive purposes, I would buy CCI Mini-Mags once they start circulating again.

 

[Omnis]

Bad news: That R51 is a complete piece of ****.

 

[a6m5]

Wow.... Somewhat similar to first impression of my first gun ever: Remington 597 rimfire rifle. Sights were loose, cocking lever was loose(still not really secure) & it couldn't empty this little magazine(something like 7 rounds) without a jam.

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

I got the 12-round mag for my USP today....... I half expected similar experience to the Glock mag, which I found nearly impossible without help from the included speed loader. This H&K mag was actually smooth & soft-ish.

One weird thing with the ten round mag the gun came with, when you have ten rounds loaded, you really have to help the thing click in place, and it was also tricky releasing the mag while still loaded. This new twelve round mag behaves normally. No difficulty loading the mag, or releasing while still loaded with 12-rounds. Not sure what's going on there, but I thought I'd mention it.

Also, I've bought handful of stuff from this site: Botach

I've yet to find a cheaper store +(that's plus) free shipping, so I'll leave a link here. I think I've bought a Glock mag here, too. Great store. Warning: Whatever you do, do not sign up for emails. They've been sending me like 3, 4 a day & I can't turn it off. I guess I'm gonna have to contact their customer service.

Oh, god. PMAG for my 7.62x51, $16.11, shipped. Even cheaper than when I bought two from them last.

 

[Omnis]

Well, the snap should be explained with the speed of the recoil, which is pretty much the same.

Is it more snappy because it has 485 ft lbs of force compared to the 9 and the 45? That's more torque around the fulcrum (wrist), but with similar recoil push at 19fps.

 

[Michael88]

Is it more snappy because it has 485 ft lbs of force compared to the 9 and the 45? That's more torque around the fulcrum (wrist), but with similar recoil push at 19fps.

In my experience muzzle energy has little to do with the recoil, a slow 500 @ 1500 slug has WAY more recoil than a .308 with much more muzzle energy.
If you take the 40, give it a 100 grain bullet at 1500 or so I doubt it would recoil much more even though the muzzle energy is much higher compared to the original load.

 

[Omnis]

I dunno. Just looking at what number looks the most different. Don't really follow what __ @ ___ means without units listed.

 

[Michael88]

Don't really follow what __ @ ___ means without units listed.

To calculate or get a rough guess of the recoil you need the projectile weight and velocity. Grains @ fps.

BY the way, just found this Enfield scout mod. Its amazing.

 

[Omnis]

This is at the range now:

 

[Michael88]

If you could hit my country three times in a row it would result in a sub-moa group. This is depressing.

 

[Omnis]

They have asteroids and all kinds of other games. It's really cool. Never seen anything like it.

 

[Michael88]

They had something similar at a boot at the international gun show in Germany two years ago, though with a laser rifle (heavy one, weighed at least 4 kilograms, with a scope). They had small targets that would pop up varying in size and distance for a few seconds. I don't want to brag but I was a beast at it, scored at least twice as high as the other shooters. I totally was in search and destroy mode. And boy, it was fun. I wish my range had something similar.Hell, I would like to have something like that in my home for practice. Make a cartridge insert that goes into the chamber of a real rifle that shoots a laser beam through the barrel to the target whenever the firing pin hits the cap / button.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to get my rifle which I brought to my gunsmith, I hope he didn't screw up the barrel shortening and sight installing -job. It feels like the return of a long lost son.