Ridiculously overpriced used cars

$485,000 for a 2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nur in Millenium Jade with only 225 miles on the clock. Ridiculously overpriced or not so much?

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GranTurNismo
$485,000 for a 2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nur in Millenium Jade with only 225 miles on the clock. Ridiculously overpriced or not so much?
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I think people need to take a step back and understand what they're purchasing here. Obviously the mileage and colour are what made this sell for such a ridiculous price, but at the end of the day this is a 330ish HP Japanese Sports car from the 90's. According to the GTR registry there were 11,500 GTR R34's made so they aren't exactly a limited run. There's nothing particularly special about their performance figures, interior or exterior styling. These are cars that should not be selling for anywhere near USD$400,000 considering the most expensive examples were about USD$80,000 brand new.

And I say this as someone who definitely doesn't want a V-Spec II in Bayside Blue :sly:
 
linksracer
I think people need to take a step back and understand what they're purchasing here.
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A nearly-no mileage example of one of the more desirable/rare versions of an already highly desirable low production sports car. And as soon as they are eligible for importation in the country that wants them the most, their prices will go even higher.




Not everyone with money to buy cars cares about Mustangs and Camaros.
 
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It's stuff like this that tells you it's not sustainable, R34 GT-Rs are not exactly rare in basically any model that isn't an N1.
 
Tornado
An already highly desirable low production sports car.
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But what makes it desirable? Is it purely because it was in a Fast & Furious movie? This is my point. The car on its own does not warrant this amount of desirability and these prices.

Sure this example has showroom level mileage but that should make it worth maybe slightly more than what it was new, not more than 4x more.

And what defines low production? I would've considered 11,500 units medium production levels for a sports car.
 
linksracer
But what makes it desirable? Is it purely because it was in a Fast & Furious movie? This is my point. The car on its own does not warrant this amount of desirability and these prices.

Sure this example has showroom level mileage but that should make it worth maybe slightly more than what it was new, not more than 4x more.

And what defines low production? I would've considered 11,500 units medium production levels for a sports car.
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You got to remember the forbidden fruit element, it's a famous car that country's like the US haven't been even able to get a hold of.

I understand why there is high value to the car but this particular one is rediculious.
 
mustafur
You got to remember the forbidden fruit element, it's a famous car that country's like the US haven't been even able to get a hold of.

I understand why there is high value to the car but this particular one is rediculious.
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I guess, that's where I fall over here. I can't understand how these reached such a high value and seem to be increasing faster than even the R32 & R33 which haven't seen anywhere near as much value increase and were also unavailable in America. The R33 had similar production numbers to the R34 with 16,000. Not to mention there are very marginal performance differences between each generation. So how the R34 is seeing prices double that of some R32's and R33's is a bit boggling to me.
 
It's the last inline-6, manual GT-R(I guess a Z-Tune is probably the last last). It's a Nur... in Jade... Not a blue one or white one or black one, but the rare greenish grey metallic pearly one.

It's in Gran Turismo, over any Fast & Furious movie.
I've always been against the market picking a number out of a hat. It's a
not even about why can't 18yo Dwight have a shot at owning and enjoying rare cars? Some rare cars just fall into hands of people, that keep passing it to the next person, that just doesn't care to keep it(obviously).

Someone spins a wheel in their head, put a price out there and that's the accepted "fee" to join the rare car owners club.
 
IIRC, JDM Expo is an exporter basically marketing these cars to US buyers, right? If so, I'm going with overpriced based on the simple fact that you're dumping nearly half a million dollars into a car that you won't be able to enjoy here legally for another, what, 7 years with the 25-year rule? I just don't see it being worth the money unless you're going to gamble that once it's here, legal, & everything else, you can flip the car for even more money. But by that point, I think people will already be paying silly $100-200,000 prices for the '99-'01 eligible examples before it.

They have another example, that's your standard Bayside Blue V-Spec II with 3,400 miles for $190,000. Beyond the 225 miles, is there really anything a Nur model or finished in Millenium Jade worth paying nearly $300,000 over the Bayside example that's still barely used itself? These cars weren't even hitting $350,000 in Japan in perfect, never-used conditions in near similar trims.
 
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linksracer
But what makes it desirable? Is it purely because it was in a Fast & Furious movie? This is my point. The car on its own does not warrant this amount of desirability and these prices.
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According to who? Based on what criteria? And what collector car does to you? This is about a rare/final run version of arguably the pinnacle of an entire era of car design, one that another generation of wealth is starting to get nostalgic for and has alway been forbidden fruit for the majority of them. Once they are eligible in the US the price will only go higher; which is something I'm sure will also happen with Lancers. It's been quite a while now that "More than you can afford pal, it's a Ferrari" has been unintentionally funny, so it's not like this has come out of nowhere.


Again, not everyone who buys collector cars cares about the endless parade of numbers matching Camaros/Barracudas/Mustangs anymore.

linksracer
Sure this example has showroom level mileage but that should make it worth maybe slightly more than what it was new, not more than 4x more.
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The price it sold for new is irrelevant. Integra Type-Rs didn't cost 80 grand when they were new, but here we are. The price similar examples sold for recently is what is relevant.

You can't say the prices the cars are going for is unwarranted or that the desirability shouldn't be there or that they are "widely considered to be overpriced" if the prices keep trending upward. The seller is absolutely on a fishing expedition with that price, which I already acknowledged, but not in a way that guarantees they won't get a bite or that they won't come down if someone flashes cash. Go to a Toyota dealer where someone has a random Corvette on the lot that someone traded in. You'll see the same thing. It doesn't mean it sells for that (I'm guessing it will ultimately go for around 400 large), but it also doesn't mean that the listing is a sham for a car only on the lot to drive traffic.

linksracer
And what defines low production? I would've considered 11,500 units medium production levels for a sports car.
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Quite a bit fewer than there were Z32 TTs or 3000GT VR-4s in the US alone. Significantly fewer than there are R32s, and a bit fewer than the always-has-been-less-desirable R33. Excluding production changeover years, fewer than there have been Corvettes in any given year going back to when it was still a shortened sedan. More than there were A80 Turbos in the US, but some 6-Speed examples of those are also cresting $150,000 now, and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been any creampuff ones up for sale yet.






As a comparable example, look at C4 Corvettes. From a collectible standpoint, they are virtually worthless. They hit their 8-10k price floor a decade ago, have only barely began to rise recently, and only the creamiest of cream puff cars and rattiest of 80s models deviate much from that. Equipment, transmission, body style, rare option packages, anniversary cars, nothing changes anything. Even ZR-1s tend to cost less than a loaded C5.
Grand Sports, the final send off trim level for the generation, amounted to nothing more than either some stickers (for the convertible) or some stickers, wider wheels and tacky glued on fender flares (for the coupe). They were limited to a thousand of them, but it was a thousand examples of basically nothing. Even the special color combo was a regular production option the previous two years.

The floor on Grand Sports is 30 grand.
 
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Tornado
Based on what criteria? And what collector car does to you?
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Based on the performance figures of the car relative to its time. True collector cars for me are famous because they achieved something. Cars like the F40 that were the fastest car in the world at one stage, are deserving of being a collector car. I can't justify the prices of Mclaren F1's and 250 GTO's because I don't think any car should ever be worth that much. Alternatively, ultra rare models (for example sub 500 units), where there is no other more common version of the car can justify a higher price tag because you cannot get anything remotely similar to it without buying one of the limited units.

To me the Skyline was just famous because it was part of a culture. It wasn't the best at anything, there are multiple versions of it, so even if you can't get one of the rare colour combinations, you could buy a different version for less money (GT, 25GT, GT-T, GTR, V-Spec, Nur, etc) which makes it less special. The Skyline is not desired for what it achieved, but rather what it was a part of, which in my opinion makes it not deserving of its current market value.

Tornado
The price it sold for new is irrelevant. Integra Type-Rs didn't cost 80 grand when they were new, but here we are. The price similar examples sold for recently is what is relevant.
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I'm aware the price a car sold for is irrelevant when the second hand market determines value, that doesn't mean I'm happy about it, which is also irrelevant.

Tornado
As a comparable example, look at C4 Corvettes. From a collectible standpoint, they are virtually worthless. They hit their 8-10k price floor a decade ago, have only barely began to rise recently, and only the creamiest of cream puff cars and rattiest of 80s models deviate much from that. Equipment, transmission, body style, rare option packages, anniversary cars, nothing changes anything. Even ZR-1s tend to cost less than a loaded C5.
Grand Sports, the final send off trim level for the generation, amounted to nothing more than either some stickers (for the convertible) or some stickers, wider wheels and tacky glued on fender flares (for the coupe). They were limited to a thousand of them, but it was a thousand examples of basically nothing. Even the special color combo was a regular production option the previous two years. The floor on Grand Sports is 30 grand.
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This illustrates my problem with the thought process behind highly demanded car models. The Grand Sport doesn't really offer anything special and yet it has a considerably higher price tag. If buyers took a step back and understood what they were paying for, maybe we wouldn't be seeing these extravagant prices for cars that aren't deserving of them.
 
linksracer
Based on the performance figures of the car relative to its time.
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Which is just as irrelevant as how much it cost when it was new to the people who want them now. If that was the only standard it was measured by, people wouldn't bother buying anything from that era but Z06 Corvettes, Vipers and 996 Turbos. If that was the only standard it was measured by, people would just wander into their nearest Chevy dealer and buy a Camaro SS.

linksracer
Cars like the F40 that were the fastest car in the world at one stage, are deserving of being a collector car.
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Ironically Ferrari sold so many extra F40s to people on the basis of them becoming collectible in the future that it took a while for them to actually become so and the people who bought them just to flip them took a bath on them.

linksracer
Alternatively, ultra rare models (for example sub 500 units), where there is no other more common version of the car can justify a higher price tag because you cannot get anything remotely similar to it without buying one of the limited units.
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linksracer
This illustrates my problem with the thought process behind highly demanded car models. The Grand Sport doesn't really offer anything special and yet it has a considerably higher price tag.
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Sorry to burst your bubble on this, but that ship hasn't been in port for at least the 25 years that I've read Automobile Magazine's classic car auction coverage. It hasn't been true for Japanese cars of this era either, since Zanardi Edition and NSX-Rs have regularly been far more expensive than regular NSXs. It's not even true for new cars, as evident by how Porsche can easily spin up a limited edition 911 with a specific engine and transmission combination, and people want them so badly that they'll pay twice the price to scalpers for one.



And while it's certainly true that the person at the average car show wouldn't likely have any idea if I put a white stripe and the red hashmarks on my Admiral Blue Metallic C4 Corvette (especially when I already have replicas of the wheels installed), the person who wanted a Grand Sport would thumb their nose at it because they want a Grand Sport.

linksracer
To me the Skyline was just famous because it was part of a culture.
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linksracer
The Skyline is not desired for what it achieved, but rather what it was a part of, which in my opinion makes it not deserving of its current market value.
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Like the endless parade of numbers-matching Challengers/Mustangs/Camaros were starting around 20 years after all of those went out of production also were and have been to this day. People who grew up in that era are getting to a stage in their life where they are both nostalgic for the cars of the childhood, have romanticized views of the car culture from their youth (versus modern cars) and are coming into a financial situation that they can actually act on it. It's the exact same reason that Fox Body Mustangs, of which Ford sold hundreds of thousands each year for fourteen years, have recently become cars that you can expect to pay 20 grand for a clean one; after spending over two decades being as worthless as any other domestic car from the 80s/early 90s.

linksracer
It wasn't the best at anything, there are multiple versions of it, so even if you can't get one of the rare colour combinations, you could buy a different version for less money (GT, 25GT, GT-T, GTR, V-Spec, Nur, etc) which makes it less special.
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Except it doesn't really. Again: the endless parade of numbers-matching Challengers/Mustangs/Camaros.

linksracer
If buyers took a step back and understood what they were paying for, maybe we wouldn't be seeing these extravagant prices for cars that aren't deserving of them.
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The buyers do understand what they are paying for; and what prices are deserved is what those prospective buyers are willing to pay for them collectively. Not some guy on the internet who sees a widely desirable car go for a lot of money and thinks it doesn't make sense on a conceptual level. You repeatedly have peppered posts in this thread with how cars like the Skyline are overpriced based on a sliding scale of reasoning, ranging from "the performance was nothing special" to "it didn't cost nearly that new" to "they weren't that rare" to "it didn't stand out compared to it's competition" to "it's just people who remember the culture" to even just a blanket "it's a car that is widely considered to be overpriced in the first place."
Unfortunately, it's really hard to actually claim they are overpriced if mint R34s are continually trading deep into 6 figure range while the cars that "should" be worth more (like, say, a 996 Turbo) are stuck in Nicely-Equipped-Camry territory. Skylines aren't overpriced if every time one of the Motorex cars shows up on the US market there's a bloodbath to get a hold of it. Skylines aren't overpriced if people want them so badly that they'll spend 15 grand to import R32 sedans so they can have a Skyline when for that money they could have had the most flawless E36 M3 on the market. It's why Japan has had an entire industry for several decades taking cars that are no longer desired in Japan due to Shaken and exporting them to other countries. And with the entire tide of cars from that era/circumstance starting to rise (albeit in wildly different rates), that people are willing to pay six figures for pristine R34s and A80 Turbos and NSXs isn't something that is likely to go away any time soon; and certainly not once the former are able to be easily owned in the US. I've said this before, but when the Evo IV V and VI are able to be sold in the US? I'm guessing the same thing will happen for those.






To be perfectly blunt about this, most of your posts on the matter are starting to come off as "Old man yells at cloud;" particularly regarding this specific car where there's agreement that it's overpriced as a specific example and likely won't go for that much, but you feel the entire chess table needs to be flipped. It's little different from when Jalopnik would run a Nice Price or Crack Pipe article on something and people who weren't aware that the market for whatever the car was isn't the same as it was in 2005 or whatever get annoyed that it's actually valuable now.
 
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https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/de...-sp-nb-series-2-manual/OAG-AD-19100660/?Cr=13
$49,995*
Excl. Govt. Charges(So, add about $2000)
The MX-5 SP (Special Performance) was a limited production, turbo charged model created solely for the Australian market in 2002 and built in just 100 units. The first MX-5 to feature a turbo charger, once given the OK from Japan, Mazda Australia, in conjunction with Prodrive (at the time Ford owned a large share in Mazda and already had motorsport links with Prodrive in Australia) upgraded the MX-5 with a Garrett GT2560R ball bearing turbo, bespoke cast manifold, intercooler, higher capacity radiator, upgraded fuel injectors, ECU remap, carbon fibre airbox, and stainless sports exhaust system. The turbo install was low boost at 8 psi to maintain reliability of the otherwise standard engine and six-speed transmission, which were backed by a factory warranty and works significantly improved power by a whopping 44kW to 157kW @ 6800rpm and 289Nm @ 4600rpm.
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Brand new NDs are about $50k-$53k(RF manuals)
 
It's wierd, but I'm still for some reason getting annoyed by the fact 90s Japanese cars like the Skyline and Supra are worth so much. I mean, I know why; the cars were great for their time, people in my generation are now old enough to buy cars and still want the ones as kids (just like boomers did with 60s Muscle cars), and they are rare. It's especially rare to find one that didn't have any stupid mods done to it.

However, even after knowing all of that; it for some reason bothers me. I just have this feeling that they shouldn't be worth as much as they are in spite of things said in this thread that are true. Maybe just because they're 90s cars made by mundane manufacturers and not being Ferraris.
 
Those are Turbo S models, for what it's worth; so the absolute peak of air cooled ones. 900 grand is insane; but 400 large isn't unprecedented for a Turbo S.
 
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I wouldn't spend it, but I'm not shocked. JDM cars like these are seeing demand with collectors. I would assume the bulk of this price is due to it being in the UK (I'm guessing the model was never imported into the UK or a tiny sliver of the 300 made it out of Japan to begin with), as 3 I see for sale in Japan are asking around $100-140,000.
 
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I think we need to talk about vans.

The prices on the desirable camper type vans are getting silly and I wonder if this is primarily a west coast thing or what. I know van life is a thing (I know two licensed white collar professionals with steady jobs who have chosen to live in Sprinters) so I can understand the demand...I wonder if it is a sustainable trend.

2002 Eurovan Pop Top - $45k https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/kirkland-2002-eurovan-camper-upgraded/7320671337.html
2001 Eurovan Pop Top - $55k https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/d/kirkland-2001-eurovan-camper-only-81k/7325639424.html
1985 Westfalia - $46k https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/san-francisco-1985-volkswagen-westfalia/7322258053.html (to be fair, this one has a ton of high quality work done to it)

Basically anything you can stand up in is likely going to cost $40k unless it's just a bog standard work van. I've seen fitted-out Sprinters well over $100k. I'm just waiting for somebody to bring a Singer-esque van to the market for really big dollars.
 
I don’t understand why the 4th generation VW vans are so expensive. They lack the hipster charm of the third Gen and look quite cheap in the interiors. But #Vanlife bro.
 
Eurovans have always had a cult of personality around them despite being known lemons even when they were new. I suspect that there likely being more of them sold as RVs than there were that were bought as minivans has only made the market stronger for them now that the vanlife trend has caught up to them.
 
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Who would've thought a used 90's Toyota would cost six figures some day? I guess we can thank tuners and drag racers for ruining most of them, and leaving almost none in good, clean stock condition. Granted, Supras are still rare and pretty cool cars, but $100k is excessive for what it is.

Same goes with Land Cruisers and 4runners. Sure, they are really cool and very reliable cars, but now we'll have to blame manufacturers for bastardizing the SUV segment, which has bloated the price of older REAL (body-over-frame, RWD base, real 4WD) SUV's. Let's not even go with Toyota SUV's, just look at how expensive less reliable and lower quality vehicles like Cherokees are getting, if you manage to find a nicer one.
 

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