Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

  • Thread starter Azuremen
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niky
Besides, the Camry lump in the tC is not a performance motor. It's a 2.4 liter undersquare motor designed for economy and torque... While putting a bigger motor in for more power works, it helps if that motor is a good one (example, SR20DE into the B 13 SE-R) and not a low-revving torquer (QR25DE in B15 SE-R).
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I've got the Camry-spec 2.2L 5S-FE in my Celica, very similar in attitude to the way the tC is set up. No complaints about the power delivery, its "down low" (by 4 cyl standards), and it makes for a good way to scoot about with the short gearing in a moderately brisk manner. Its not the best way to do it I suppose (the lucky bastards in Japan got my car with the better 2ZZ engine), but it works well.

With the tC, its much the same, but from what I understand, it also isn't. The car feels HUGE when you sit in it, and I do not think running all those Camry parts beneath it help all that much. Even the "loose" Chevrolet Cobalt feels "tight" by comparison, and thats saying a lot.
 
YSSMAN
I've got the Camry-spec 2.2L 5S-FE in my Celica, very similar in attitude to the way the tC is set up. No complaints about the power delivery, its "down low" (by 4 cyl standards), and it makes for a good way to scoot about with the short gearing in a moderately brisk manner. Its not the best way to do it I suppose (the lucky bastards in Japan got my car with the better 2ZZ engine), but it works well.

With the tC, its much the same, but from what I understand, it also isn't. The car feels HUGE when you sit in it, and I do not think running all those Camry parts beneath it help all that much. Even the "loose" Chevrolet Cobalt feels "tight" by comparison, and thats saying a lot.
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Actually, the JDM Celica used the 3S-GE in it's top trim FWD trim, for the ST18x series Celicas. Same motor that was in the G-limited SWs. The ZZT20 series Celica's have either the 1ZZ-FED (same as my Spyder) or the 2ZZ-GE (Elise/Exige).

The supercharger kit of the tC yields a fat torque curve and maintains reliability. Making a car high strung generally doesn't lend itself to reliability or economy. The 2ZZ-GE and 2AZ-FE are quite different in function and point of design.
 
Azuremen
Actually, the JDM Celica used the 3S-GE in it's top trim FWD trim, for the ST18x series Celicas. Same motor that was in the G-limited SWs. The ZZT20 series Celica's have either the 1ZZ-FED (same as my Spyder) or the 2ZZ-GE (Elise/Exige).

The supercharger kit of the tC yields a fat torque curve and maintains reliability. Making a car high strung generally doesn't lend itself to reliability or economy. The 2ZZ-GE and 2AZ-FE are quite different in function and point of design.
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That's about it. But not completely... what's more accurate is making a car high strung doesn't lend itself to both reliability and cheap manufacture at the same time. High strung engines can be relatively economical, as long as you give them economical low-rpm cam-profiles (and save the huge lift lobes for high rpm use). It's just that to make an engine that can survive constant high revving is more expensive than making one that won't ever see the far side of 6000-6500 rpm.

RE: Camry Engine: didn't mean to say it was a bad engine... just not a performance oriented engine...
 
They can't call it a Toyota because it's got a boxer engine and they can't call it a Scoobie because it's RWD. Still, I can't wait.

Hmm, Since I drive a Camry, I can never recommend a Camry engine for a sports car. Not unless it's hooked to a manual gearbox and doesn't mind being rev'ed to hell and back.
 
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CamryFan
They can't call it a Toyota because it's got a boxer engine and they can't call it a Scoobie because it's RWD. Still, I can't wait.
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The Subaru 360 was rear-wheel drive... and rear-engined, to boot. It's perfectly possible for Subaru to build front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive vehicles... they also sell front-wheel drive kei cars in Japan. It's just that appearing as a purely AWD company has paid dividends for them in terms of marketing and brand cachet outside of Japan that they've encouraged the association of the "Subaru" nameplate exclusively with all-wheel drive... despite the fact that putting AWD on the 1.5 liter Impreza or even the 2 liter naturally aspirated Legacy makes them horribly sluggish.

And Toyotas can have boxers if they want to. There's no rule saying only Porsche and Subaru can have 'em...
 
Hell, even in the 90's Subaru was selling FWD cars in the US. SVX I believe had this treatment with AWD being an option.
 
Rumour has it this is being delayed until 2012...lame.

Autoblog
Report: Toyobaru delayed until 2012 or later
The rumors of the sports car that Toyota and Subaru were working on have been replaced by rumors that the car has been put on hold. Earlier news had posited a rear-wheel-drive sports car with "wonderful style," based on the current Subaru Legacy platform, with a boxer engine putting out around 200 hp through a six-speed manual. Originally due in 2011, now, according to Nikkei, the car has been pushed back to at least 2012. If things get worse before they get better, we have a feeling that 2012 will also come and go without Toyota fielding another dedicated sports car entrant. So move along, folks, there's nothing to see here, please return to your Camrys and cue up Queen: another one bites the dust...
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Bloomberg
Toyota in Talks With Fuji Heavy on Sports Car Output (Update1)
Dec. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., Japan’s largest automaker, is in talks with Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. on when to start building a sports car after the Nikkei reported the two carmakers may delay the project.

“We’re discussing with Fuji Heavy the timing for the start of production and other details,” Hideaki Homma, a Toyota spokesman, said today by phone. He declined to elaborate on the negotiation. Toyota nearly doubled its stake in Fuji Heavy to 16.5 percent in April.

Toyota decided to postpone until 2012 or later its plan to have Fuji Heavy build the sports car as the domestic auto market keeps shrinking, the Nikkei reported, without saying where it got the information. Production was to start at the end of 2011, the newspaper said.

The Toyota City, Japan-based automaker is reviewing all new projects after slashing its profit forecast 56 percent last month because of falling sales in North America and Europe and a stronger yen. Toyota and Isuzu Motors Ltd. agreed to temporarily freeze their diesel engine project, Isuzu said Dec. 16. Tokyo- based Isuzu is 5.9 percent owned by Toyota.

Toyota’s subsidiary on the southwestern Japanese island of Kyushu will end contracts with about 1,100 temporary workers from April next year, as sales slump in North America and other regions, the Asahi newspaper said.

Toyota fell 2 percent to 2,900 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange yesterday. Fuji Heavy, the maker of Subaru-brand cars, fell 1.3 percent to 229 yen.
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Toyota would be a bum about building something that has even the slightest aspirations of being a sporty car. Why am I not too surprised?
 
Well, when they're talking about having a nearly $2BN operating loss this year, its no wonder that they'd be a little shaky over actually building something cool... Albeit with an extremely narrow market.

My heart hopes they'll do it, my head still isn't sure.
 
OSNAP!

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Autoblog
The last report about the on again/off again sports car being developed jointly by Toyota and Subaru was that it's on again. Today comes word from L'Automobile in France that not only is the rear-wheel-drive Toyubaru going to happen, but it will arrive bearing the Celica name sometime in 2010. If Wikipedia is to be believed, this would be the eighth generation of the Celica, which traces its roots all the way back to 1970 when it debuted in Japan as an inexpensive rear-wheel-drive sports car. Through the years it switched to front- and all-wheel drive, with the final seventh generation Celica sold from 2000 - 2005 being a strict cart puller. L'Automobile claims that Thierry Dombreval, Toyota's VP of sales and marketing in France, spilled the beans on reviving the Celica name, so we won't consider this news solid until a second source comes forward or Toyota officially confirms it, neither of which is likely to happen. So for now all you Celica fans should just sit tight and light a few candles for your cause.
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The Celica is back? Hmmmm. Lets hope its cheap, there's no shame in going from Celica to Celica for some people.
 
Given the reception thus far, I think the Hyundai most-certainly is having an effect on that decision. It has dramatically increased the interest in the company, and lets be honest, Toyota could use the positive attention.

The thing is, I don't know if Toyota can out-Hyundai the Hyundai. This car is going to have to be cheap, very cheap, and pack a solid level of performance to cream the Gen Coupe... Much less the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger, and 350Z. Assuming they've stuck to the lightweight claims, get the car to push out something in the neighborhood of 200-250 BHP, chances are, they'll do alright. Probably.

I'd consider an upgrade from Celica to Celica if its the right price, but of course, that all assumes that Toyota is still committed to building the damn thing in a reasonable time frame.
 
Looks like a cross between the Mercedes CLK63 Black series coupe, and the current Mitsubishi Eclipse.
 
Mind you, that's a drawing....

Agreed, Brad. The other (possible) problem I could see is that if they're designing it for a four, could they fit Subaru's big 3.0L six in for those whom there is no replacement for Displacement? or will they stick around playing with the inline four GenCoupe?

one thing i'd love to see - throwback versions of the '80s Celica wheels...
 
True as that is, you realize what I mean by that is that you can't judge the car's final design by a sketch.
 
Whether or not it's official, I was of course describing what the car depicted in the sketch looked like.
 
That's not a sketch format car stylists work with. It looks like a patent drawing. I could have been pulled from a copyright/trademark application, which are usually in the public domain (and conveniently online), but it's a matter of actually finding the information.
 
^^ What He Said ^^

Its an interesting representation of what the car will likely look like, as several Renaults (among others) have been revealed using the European patent designs before.

It gives hope that it will be a small, lightweight coupe... But until its in the flesh, I wouldn't bank too much on it yet. After all, Toyota has been in a whole mess of crazy lately with that "Lets build an MR2 based on the Prius" junk.
 
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From Autoblog

This is not a fine kettle of fish. For some time now, fans of Toyota's AE86 Corolla and Subaru rally cars have been licking their chops in anticipation of the Toyota/Subaru-developed coupe. Affectionately known as the Toyobaru or 086A, the coupe is poised to resurrect the FR arrangement in Japan and give Toyota a much-needed excitement injection. Or maybe not. The JDM lovin' folks at 7Tune are reporting that the 086A is being neutered by about 40 hp in order for the new vehicle to be branded as an "eco car" in its home market.

But don't fret too much, as the plan is to simultaneously lower the coupe's weight, boosting the power-to-weight ratio. The other (maybe) good news for American consumers is that the power reduction seems to be effecting only the 2.0-liter boxer engine, a motor that Subaru no longer sells in the US. Meaning that we can expect our 086As to come with at least Subie's naturally aspirated and ubiquitous 2.5-liter boxer, if not a whole lot of turbo plumbing -- if makes it to the States.

Toyota is also banking on the fact that previous AE86 owners will view the new car as a nostalgia purchase. As such, they've changed the cars demographic from the coveted, if not fanciful, 18-35 year-old range to the more-likely-to-actually-buy-stuff 30-50 year-old male range. Most of these rumors will be dismissed for good when the Toyota/Subaru coupe makes its debut at the Tokyo Motor Show this October.
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NUH-OOOOOOOOOHHHH!

at least they're lightening it a little, but...still...they're slowly Toyotafying it.
 
How many of us saw this coming?

I'm hoping that Subaru will lay down the hammer, tell Toyota "no" and go on to create a more sporty version than Toyota would dare to. Although it would be cool to have a Toyota version of the Miata on sale.
 
*shrug*

I'm still interested, but not sold on it. Is it just me, or is that sketch an odd mix of an Alfa 8C with a Toyota face or what?
 
Nothing is Better Than the Real Thing... Right?​

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There it is, in all of it's glory. The FT-86 Concept, due to arrive at the Tokyo show in a couple of days. If you've been on the internets, you know the details. Small RWD coupe, cheap price, Subaru engine, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I'll admit that I'm somewhat excited, but somewhat disappointed at the same time. They still don't have the styling down, it still looks a bit too much like a concept car than something I'd want to drive down the street. Furthermore, now that we're suggesting that the price will be north of $20K, I'm not entirely sold on that without some kind of performance benchmark.
 
​


I actually really like the look of this car, hopefully the production version isn't far off this concept. 👍
 
I'd like to know the weight... if they can keep the weight close to MX-5 levels and have both a base naturally aspirated model and a turbocharged model... color me intrigued.

20k isn't bad... and considering it's just slightly bigger than a Miata (a hair over four meters long and with a B-road friendly width of 1,760 mm...), it ought to be a good value.

At the very least, it'll be a shot in the arm for Toyota's image. Just hope the final design isn't as gimmicky-Lexus as this one.
 

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