Should Opel make it to GT 6?

[GT-Roadie]

No chance to overtake this car!

 

[SagarisGTB]

To be honest, I can easily see Opel being integrated into GT. Vauxhall is already in, and several cars in the Opel lineup are identical to some cars in GT already.

Thats not quite correct. Opel has been in every GT since GT2, though without premium cars in GT5. Vauxhall was only in GT5 as rebadged Opel cars, including cars that don't exist in real life (Vauxhall Astra V8 DTM...).

 

[KM964]

If they do, they have to include Oliver.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Opel has got a reputation of being boring, but I think they made some neat cars over the years. I wouldn't mind seeing their line up increase for GT6, provided it was some older opels like the Manta.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not sure if anyone else has said it but I'll be the guy. Why? If they bring in more chevy compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models...you have Opel just with a different badge.

 

[Flaco13]

No, all you´d have is more Chevy compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models. That´s like saying you don´t need Volkswagen because there are Audis.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No, all you´d have is more Chevy compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models. That´s like saying you don´t need Volkswagen because there are Audis.

No it wouldn't, also it should say GM and not Chevy. I tend to make that error because I always considered Chevy = GM since it is the flagship, but anyways.

The Buick, Chevy and Holden that match up with the Astra (Cruze/Astra), Ampera (Volt), Insignia (Regal).

Basically they are the same car, different country and at times may compete. However, to their respective domestic markets they are the same car. VW group is the poor mans Audi...that is why you see two different ones, just like a chevy is a cheaper solution to a Buick or Cadillac. Opel doesn't have a lower or higher end like GM in the U.S. neither does Vaxuall or Holden. Also Audi A8 though on the same platform as VW's Phaeton doesn't use a steel frame like the Phaeton but an aluminum one. GM gives the same stuff to all, no matter if it has a holden tag or a opel or a buick. Nationality is really the only difference at GM, while class is the VW guide.

Don't get me wrong I'd love some old Opel's but only the race cars, not any production models cause PD would already have the license in GM. Now if you have a bias hangup that's a different story.

 

[TetreRouge]

Bring back Opel for their oldschool cars, ESPECIALLY the Calibra DTM, but they must include the car that Manuel Reuter won the DTM title in:

...and ofcourse, any car lover who grew up in the 90's would want this:

...as well as:

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Bring back Opel for their oldschool cars, ESPECIALLY the Calibra DTM, but they must include the car that Manuel Reuter won the DTM title in:

Now this is what I want to see in GT games and nothing else from Opel. Oh and don't forget their WTCC and

 

[lbpomg95]

LMSCorvetteGT2 - I think it's more to do with 'sentimental' value if you will, in their respective markets. For example, a late '90s Astra (especially the bertone 888 edition) would probably interest the UK crowd (especially with British Touring Car Champs) more than the equivalent Chevrolet would interest the American market. I don't know really. Chevrolet has had great victory in BTCC too.

Having been raised in a family which has owned only Fords and Vauxhalls, I love Vauxhall and don't really like Ford. That being said, I'd love to see some old Ford classics like the Cortina. But the Vauxhall I'd like to see most is the Nova GTE, or the Astra GTE.

 

[Flaco13]

No it wouldn't, also it should say GM and not Chevy. I tend to make that error because I always considered Chevy = GM since it is the flagship, but anyways.

The Buick, Chevy and Holden that match up with the Astra (Cruze/Astra), Ampera (Volt), Insignia (Regal).

Basically they are the same car, different country and at times may compete. However, to their respective domestic markets they are the same car. VW group is the poor mans Audi...that is why you see two different ones, just like a chevy is a cheaper solution to a Buick or Cadillac. Opel doesn't have a lower or higher end like GM in the U.S. neither does Vaxuall or Holden. Also Audi A8 though on the same platform as VW's Phaeton doesn't use a steel frame like the Phaeton but an aluminum one. GM gives the same stuff to all, no matter if it has a holden tag or a opel or a buick. Nationality is really the only difference at GM, while class is the VW guide.

Don't get me wrong I'd love some old Opel's but only the race cars, not any production models cause PD would already have the license in GM. Now if you have a bias hangup that's a different story.

Yes, you should have mention Buick right away because that´s a different story and can´t be compared to VW&Audi.

There is no Chevy match up except for the Ampera/Volt (edit: sorry there is the Captiva/Antara SUV´s), your example of Astra/Cruze is simply wrong, there you´d have the comparision Audi A3 and Golf, same platform and many parts shared, but sure far from a rebadge.

Opel doesn´t have a lower or higher end? No, it does have both, Opel has the whole spectrum in europe, from the smallest cars like Adam and Agila, thru compact (Corsa) midsize range from lower mid size (Astra) to the upper mid size (Insignia). A high end sedan will be introduced soon, uncertain yet if it will be a rebadged Buick LaCrosse or a Caddy XTS.

So where GM, in the US, scatters it among the Brands, in Europe Opel has the whole range, Chevrolet wants to jump in to the market but is to be set lower (That doesn´t apply to types of Corvettes and Camaro and the likes), beneath Opel (like in VAG, Audi>VW>Skoda). Buicks aren´t sold here at all for obvious reasons and Cadillac is, of course, in the upper segment. (Not sure if the XTS will be sold here, if Opel gets its own high end sedan based of off it, then I guess not).

Opel is 3rd in sales in Europe, with Renault very close behind, they occasionally switch positions. In these sales statistics, Vauxhall is included.

Tbh, I think your point of view is a little too american, I understand it is not easy for you to see it from the european perspective, but Opel is a european Brand.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

LMSCorvetteGT2 - I think it's more to do with 'sentimental' value if you will, in their respective markets. For example, a late '90s Astra (especially the bertone 888 edition) would probably interest the UK crowd (especially with British Touring Car Champs) more than the equivalent Chevrolet would interest the American market. I don't know really. Chevrolet has had great victory in BTCC too.

Having been raised in a family which has owned only Fords and Vauxhalls, I love Vauxhall and don't really like Ford. That being said, I'd love to see some old Ford classics like the Cortina. But the Vauxhall I'd like to see most is the Nova GTE, or the Astra GTE.

All I will say is go back and read my comment, it tells you in the comment that I want the racing cars only. My first comment was addressed toward those that really want road going versions. Chevy would interest the America, Asian and somewhat Euro market, but as I said it isn't only about Chevy it is also about Holden, Buick, Cadillac as well.

What I said has nothing to do with region but more so to do with accessibility. If PD have the GM license and people want sub-compact, mid size and large size sedans then why not from Chevy instead of going out to get another license. Yet again I'd implore you to actually read my second post through and you'll see exactly what I meant.

Yes, you should have mention Buick right away because that´s a different story and can´t be compared to VW&Audi.

There is no Chevy match up except for the Ampera/Volt (edit: sorry there is the Captiva/Antara SUV´s), your example of Astra/Cruze is simply wrong, there you´d have the comparision Audi A3 and Golf, same platform and many parts shared, but sure far from a rebadge.

Opel doesn´t have a lower or higher end? No, it does have both, Opel has the whole spectrum in europe, from the smallest cars like Adam and Agila, thru compact (Corsa) midsize range from lower mid size (Astra) to the upper mid size (Insignia). A high end sedan will be introduced soon, uncertain yet if it will be a rebadged Buick LaCrosse or a Caddy XTS.

Let me make it more simple for you, what I meant is Opel doesn't have a Buick or Cadillac that produces the upper end luxury cars. They only have Opel. Also you prove my point by saying Opel will bring out a new car. Also tell me since I actually gave you an example what does Astra have over the Cruze, other than interior? And even if I'm technically wrong, I'm still right because it is a re-badged Buick

So where GM, in the US, scatters it among the Brands, in Europe Opel has the whole range, Chevrolet wants to jump in to the market but is to be set lower (That doesn´t apply to types of Corvettes and Camaro and the likes), beneath Opel (like in VAG, Audi>VW>Skoda). Buicks aren´t sold here at all for obvious reasons and Cadillac is, of course, in the upper segment. (Not sure if the XTS will be sold here, if Opel gets its own high end sedan based of off it, then I guess not).

I know, I said that not sure if the language gap between us is causing a conflict to understand each other. Yet you just reworded what I told you already.

Basically GM don't need to have a lower or higher end in Germany that would be too much hassle, thus it is easier to lump the line up for East Europe mainly in Opel.

Opel is 3rd in sales in Europe, with Renault very close behind, they occasionally switch positions. In these sales statistics, Vauxhall is included.

Tbh, I think your point of view is a little too american, I understand it is not easy for you to see it from the european perspective, but Opel is a european Brand.

I'm not surprised Vauxhall is included, it is a European brand owned by GM, they just produce more toward west Europe.

Actually it isn't, if it was I would have just asked for GM, but I didn't I asked for Holden and old race only Opel cars. You haven't done anything to disprove my validation of why opel road cars aren't needed other than people wanting to be subjective to region. However, it would be much easier (since they do have some GM support) to just use the license they have. This isn't a nationalistic view I hold but an economic and logical one.

 

[lbpomg95]

If they have the GM license, then surely they can model Vauxhall too, since GM still owns them?

All I was simply saying is that from what I can tell, A road going Vauxhall would pique the interest of the UK market more than the equivalent Chevy would interest the US, simply because, if PD were going to model a Chevy, they offer so many more interesting cars than the Cruze for example. The Vauxhall range doesn't really offer particularly interesting cars, except the VXR8. When Chevrolet offers the C6 ZR1, the C7, the Camaro ZL1 and some others I can't see anyone wanting something like a Cruze.

Course, now I'm putting Vauxhalls down as boring, even though I love 'em. Either way, what I said before was merely a suggestion.

By the way, I'm assuming you know about the Astra VXR/OPC - I'm curious if There are any models like that for the US? I've never heard of any being released over there but It'd be interesting to know. Like a hardcore version of the Cruze?

I have heard about some form of GNX reincarnation - based on the body of an Insignia, but other than that I've not heard of anything.

EDIT: One more thing I didn't remember to post - they are pretty much the same car, but I don't know, maybe the badge makes a difference to some. I know some people that can't stand seeing an Opel badge on an Astra, despite them being identical everywhere else. Of course, PD could just do reskins of each from all (Opel, Vauxhall and US equivalents), which they seem to do a lot!

 

[Flaco13]

All I will say is go back and read my comment, it tells you in the comment that I want the racing cars only. My first comment was addressed toward those that really want road going versions. Chevy would interest the America, Asian and somewhat Euro market, but as I said it isn't only about Chevy it is also about Holden, Buick, Cadillac as well.

What I said has nothing to do with region but more so to do with accessibility. If PD have the GM license and people want sub-compact, mid size and large size sedans then why not from Chevy instead of going out to get another license. Yet again I'd implore you to actually read my second post through and you'll see exactly what I meant.

What I said is all about the region, why people in europe would prefer an Opel over a Chevy? Do you really still need an answer for that?

Licensing Opel for GT6 is not an issue at all, Opel is not Porsche.

In one of the latest interviews Kaz said it´s either PD who, out of their interest, go to a Manufacturer and call out for an implementation in the Game.

Or, if a Manufacturer wants to promote their products they come to PD.

It´s a matter of decisions not of licensing issues.

EDIT: One more thing I didn't remember to post - they are pretty much the same car, but I don't know, maybe the badge makes a difference to some. I know some people that can't stand seeing an Opel badge on an Astra, despite them being identical everywhere else. Of course, PD could just do reskins of each from all (Opel, Vauxhall and US equivalents), which they seem to do a lot!

They can´t stand a Opel badge on the Astra? lmao

Tell them to go get informations about wich Brand is responsible for the design, the built... actually the whole existance of an Astra.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What I said is all about the region, why people in europe would prefer an Opel over a Chevy? Do you really still need an answer for that?

Licensing Opel for GT6 is not an issue at all, Opel is not Porsche.

In one of the latest interviews Kaz said it´s either PD who, out of their interest, go to a Manufacturer and call out for an implementation in the Game.

Or, if a Manufacturer wants to promote their products they come to PD.

It´s a matter of decisions not of licensing issues.



They can´t stand a Opel badge on the Astra? lmao

Tell them to go get informations about wich Brand is responsible for the design, the built... actually the whole existance of an Astra.

Uh do you know how to use the forum? You just combined my post with the other user...

EDIT: Never mind you fixed it.

Anyways, I didn't ever ask why the game should be looked at on a national basis that is why we already have issues. Once again, I have given you respect due to perhaps some language barrier.

Also how is it a matter of decision? If that were the case then we'd have Porsche due to it being owned by VW since it isn't a license issue right? What you fail to see, is that PD actually have GM support, hence the C7. Just like Dodge support T10 and FM. So it isn't far fetched that PD could probably get more, and thus we'd have cars that are exactly the same as Opel but with an American badge or Australian badge (we all know they deserve manufactures). Do you believe everything Kaz says, cause we have a ton of threads her debunking "his word", just so you are aware. It has also been said that it does cost some money to get groups at times, so it isn't just a decision by PD they don't have as much power as you'd wish they had.

Once again you really haven't actually address what I've said to the original point as to why Opel is truly needed other than subjective preference. If that's the case, fine, but logically the only real thing that should be added is the racing lineage of Opel.

 

[lbpomg95]

They can´t stand a Opel badge on the Astra? lmao

Tell them to go get informations about wich Brand is responsible for the design, the built... actually the whole existance of an Astra.

Oh, they know where the Astra comes from, it's simply a region thing. Each to their own I guess.

 

[Flaco13]

Let me make it more simple for you, what I meant is Opel doesn't have a Buick or Cadillac that produces the upper end luxury cars. They only have Opel. Also you prove my point by saying Opel will bring out a new car. Also tell me since I actually gave you an example what does Astra have over the Cruze, other than interior? And even if I'm technically wrong, I'm still right because it is a re-badged Buick

No, it is not.

I know, I said that not sure if the language gap between us is causing a conflict to understand each other. Yet you just reworded what I told you already.

Basically GM don't need to have a lower or higher end in Germany that would be too much hassle, thus it is easier to lump the line up for East Europe mainly in Opel.

GM doesn´t need to tell Opel what to do anymore, the Opel CEO Mr. Neumann is a member of the GM-board, so they can´t just decide things above the heads of Opel, those days are gone.

I'm not surprised Vauxhall is included, it is a European brand owned by GM, they just produce more toward west Europe.

Actually it isn't, if it was I would have just asked for GM, but I didn't I asked for Holden and old race only Opel cars. You haven't done anything to disprove my validation of why opel road cars aren't needed other than people wanting to be subjective to region. However, it would be much easier (since they do have some GM support) to just use the license they have. This isn't a nationalistic view I hold but an economic and logical one.

Vauxhall=Opel, only difference is RHD and the Brands name, it has been covered in this thread already.

Holden is from Australia, and sold there. I ask as much about them as you do. But they are different cars.

Opel is needed because of the cars, the tradition and history of the Brand, the rivalry towards VW and Ford, the love of its fans (see:http://www.opeltreffen-oschersleben.de/en/Start).

Do you like the Renault Megane RS? Is it sold in the US? Have you ever seen one there?

Tell me why PD should have a Megane RS but no Opel Astra OPC.

 

[toospiciecc]

Why not!!!! Opel is now sold in Australia competing against Holden in a Import only brand but I would love to see Holden and HSV in GT6 regardless of Microsoft owning the licence of V8 Supercars but why not Road cars?

 

[Flaco13]

Oh, they know where the Astra comes from, it's simply a region thing. Each to their own I guess.

Well in Germany there are people ordering Vauxhall badges to put them on their cars

I´m not one of them, but I know why they do it, it´s not because they would feel ashamed to drive an Opel, it´s to give a more individual taste to the car. The Badge itself isn´t commonly known there.

To me personally, it only shows how the two simply belong together, and it´s ok that they do.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If they have the GM license, then surely they can model Vauxhall too, since GM still owns them?

Then why don't we have Porsche surely since VW own them we should be able to get it despite EA. Just because you own something doesn't mean full discretion in things like games is given by the parent company.

All I was simply saying is that from what I can tell, A road going Vauxhall would pique the interest of the UK market more than the equivalent Chevy would interest the US, simply because, if PD were going to model a Chevy, they offer so many more interesting cars than the Cruze for example. The Vauxhall range doesn't really offer particularly interesting cars, except the VXR8. When Chevrolet offers the C6 ZR1, the C7, the Camaro ZL1 and some others I can't see anyone wanting something like a Cruze.

I know quite well what you were saying, but once again I am not looking at this from a nationalistic stand point like you and others might. From a driving/racing standpoint I see the Race cars that Opel produced as a more appropriate item. I know exactly what Chevy offers my GTP name kind of gives away the fact that I probably have an affinity for GM stuff especially Vettes. By your logic then why do we need a Prius or Leaf since Toyota and Nissan also have much more interesting cars? Perhaps it is due to representing the full face of a manufacture?

Course, now I'm putting Vauxhalls down as boring, even though I love 'em. Either way, what I said before was merely a suggestion.

By the way, I'm assuming you know about the Astra VXR/OPC - I'm curious if There are any models like that for the US? I've never heard of any being released over there but It'd be interesting to know. Like a hardcore version of the Cruze?

I wouldn't call a Buick Verano a hardcore Chevy Cruze, just cushy stuff for a person to feel like they're extra 5-6K USD was spent well.

No, it is not.

It would help you to explain why, how is it not. Tell me how these two cars are vastly different.

GM doesn´t need to tell Opel what to do anymore, the Opel CEO Mr. Neumann is a member of the GM-board, so they can´t just decide things above the heads of Opel, those days are gone.

Gee you don't say, I already know this, hence why I said what I said about the License. If PD wanted to have more road going cars from Opel they need to talk to Opel. Also I get the sense you dislike GM and American brands, for example you seem happy that Opel have more power over their brand as if GM was a dictatorship...

Vauxhall=Opel, only difference is RHD and the Brands name, it has been covered in this thread already.

Once again I know this, but the main market for Vauxhall is Western Europe. GM favor Opel more hence why there has been more Opel/GM cars through their history together, but Opel's main operation (once again which you failed to address) is in Easter Europe. They are the same cars and made in the same plant, I'm aware of how GM operates the production.

Holden is from Australia, and sold there. I ask as much about them as you do. But they are different cars.

What is different? Holden is GM in Australia, the cars they produce have re-badged American versions.

Opel is needed because of the cars, the tradition and history of the Brand, the rivalry towards VW and Ford, the love of its fans (see:http://www.opeltreffen-oschersleben.de/en/Start).

All you did was further tell me how you have favortism toward Opel, which isn't an objective reason to it being in the game, when other cars that are the same and more accessible in theory can be.

Do you like the Renault Megane RS? Is it sold in the US? Have you ever seen one there?

Tell me why PD should have a Megane RS but no Opel Astra OPC.

Are you using the Megane to compare to the Nissan, or what? No Renault isn't sold in the U.S. Nissan is sold here, so no I haven't seen one in person but I have seen them. Because Renault have a great road going cars and a vast racing history in Sports Car, Rally, and F1.

 

[lbpomg95]

Frankly I don't mind having the Prius. Not so sure about having 4 of them! The Leaf is an innovative car, and deserves a place. Not saying I like it, but everyone has different tastes. If we talk about showing the full face of a manuacturer, in terms of premium cars, Chevrolet is rather well represented, aside from the lower end of the scale. Opel doesn't have a single Premium car. The DTM Calibra at least would be a good addition, or some of the BTCC models.

And speaking of Flaco's point on the Megane - it would be fantastic to have the hot hatches from all markets. Opel Astra VXR, the Megane RS, Scirroco R from VW, Ford Focus ST. America doesn't have an equivalent for the Astra VXR, right?

Either way if we talk about road cars the only way both of us would be appeased is if PD simply did their usual badge re-skin which they've done with the BRZ, FRS and GT86. Economically it would make more sense to only model the US variants, like you say, but as we see with the DTM and VXR/OPC models, there are Euro models that could have a justifed place.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Frankly I don't mind having the Prius. Not so sure about having 4 of them! The Leaf is an innovative car, and deserves a place. Not saying I like it, but everyone has different tastes. If we talk about showing the full face of a manuacturer, in terms of premium cars, Chevrolet is rather well represented, aside from the lower end of the scale. Opel doesn't have a single Premium car. The DTM Calibra at least would be a good addition, or some of the BTCC models.

And speaking of Flaco's point on the Megane - it would be fantastic to have the hot hatches from all markets. Opel Astra VXR, the Megane RS, Scirroco R from VW, Ford Focus ST. America doesn't have an equivalent for the Astra VXR, right?

Either way if we talk about road cars the only way both of us would be appeased is if PD simply did their usual badge re-skin which they've done with the BRZ, FRS and GT86. Economically it would make more sense to only model the US variants, like you say, but as we see with the DTM and VXR/OPC models, there are Euro models that could have a justifed place.

That's basically my point, I saw no reason for the FR-S. I think the Toyota GT86 did just fine. I don't really see a reason to represent each region model when performance wise, we've been given the same car with a different badge Scion is Toyota.

 

[lbpomg95]

I can see the point in a way - I only drive the Subaru BRZ of the 3, one of my friends will only use the Scion and another will always use the GT86, however I agree with you that it is bordering on the pointless when they are identical performance-wise.

 

[Flaco13]

It would help you to explain why, how is it not. Tell me how these two cars are vastly different.

Oh boy... ok I´ll explain:

Chevrolet Cruze

Underpinned by the front-wheel drive GM Delta II platform, GM has confirmed the Cruze development program occurred under a global design and engineering team.[25] The Company said GM Daewoo in South Korea played a leading role in the design and engineering of the Cruze, along with GM's German-based Opel division.[26][27][28] This development program spanned over 27 months at a cost of US$4 billion. A total of 221 prototypes were tested in Australia, Canada, China, South Korea, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States.[29]
Holden Cruze (JG) CD sedan

"According to GM, the Cruze's body structure is 65 percent high-strength steel.[30] MacPherson struts are utilized in the front suspension with a solid torsion beam axle for the rear, avoiding the cost and complexity needed for a modern multi-link independent rear suspension used by some more expensive rivals.[29][31]

Hydraulically-assisted (electric for North American market) rack and pinion steering gives for a 10.9-meter (36 ft) turning circle. Braking-wise, ventilated front, and solid rear disc brakes are employed, both using piston steel calipers.[29] To counteract noise, vibration, and harshness, engineers have designed the Cruze with an isolated four-point engine mount and implemented sound damping material in areas including the front-of-dashboard panel, luggage compartment, decklid internals, doors, carpet and headlining. Further noise suppression through the use of a triple-layer sealing system in the doors has also been employed.[29]

A five-door Cruze hatchback was unveiled at the 2010 Paris Motor Show on October 1, 2010. Cruze hatchback sales began in Europe in mid-2011.[32][33] Holden in Australia were responsible for the design and development of the hatchback body variant.[34]

GM unveiled the Chevrolet Cruze station wagon in February 2012 at the Geneva Motor Show. Load space ranges from about 500 litres (20 cu ft) up to the window line in the rear, to nearly 1,500 litres (50 cu ft) up to the roof top with the rear seats folded down."

Opel Astra

"In Großbritannien wird der Astra J (wie auch schon einige seiner Vorgänger) unter dem Markennamen Vauxhall hergestellt sowie verkauft.

In den USA wird die Stufenhecklimousine als Buick Verano vertrieben, der mit zwei Benzin Motoren mit 2,0 Liter (254 PS) und 2,4 Liter (182 PS) im Angebot steht.

In China wird die fünftürige Schräghecklimousine als Buick Excelle XT und die viertürige Stufenhecklimousine als Buick Excelle GT vertrieben (nicht zu verwechseln mit dem "Excelle", der ein Zwilling des Daewoo Lacetti ist)"

I will translate: "In Great Britain, the Astra J (as most of it´s predecessors) is manufactured and sold under the Brand name of Vauxhall.

In the U.S. the Sedan is sold as Buick Verano, it offers two gasoline engines of 2,0Liter (254bhp) and 2,4 Liter (182bhp).

In China, the five-door hatchback is sold as Buick Excelle GT (Not to be confused with the Excell, wich is a rebadge of the Deawoo Lacetti)"

sources: Wikipedia

Sorry but you´d need a lot of imagination to call this a re-badge!

Gee you don't say, I already know this, hence why I said what I said about the License. If PD wanted to have more road going cars from Opel they need to talk to Opel. Also I get the sense you dislike GM and American brands, for example you seem happy that Opel have more power over their brand as if GM was a dictatorship...

I do not dislike GM at all, but for so many years now, decisions made by GM harmed Opel because those guys there at the board misunderstood the European situation. I´d love if GM had a clear concept for their Brands, as to how they could coexist easily. Look at VAG, again. And how they did it with Audi, Skoda, Seat and the main VW. That is again, a european formula, the difference is, VAG found a good concept for the other big markets, USA and China for example. There is nothing I want more, but for GM to get it right this time and find a working formula.

Once again I know this, but the main market for Vauxhall is Western Europe. GM favor Opel more hence why there has been more Opel/GM cars through their history together, but Opel's main operation (once again which you failed to address) is in Easter Europe. They are the same cars and made in the same plant, I'm aware of how GM operates the production.

Nonsense, the only market for Vauxhall is Great Britain, ALL of the rest of Europe has Opel (Ireland even has Opels as RHD)

What is different? Holden is GM in Australia, the cars they produce have re-badged American versions.



All you did was further tell me how you have favortism toward Opel, which isn't an objective reason to it being in the game, when other cars that are the same and more accessible in theory can be.

For the actual rebadged models PD can just copy switch badges as they did so often, i don´t care. As long as it is done properly, not like they did with the none-existing Vauxhall Astra Supertouringcar.

Are you using the Megane to compare to the Nissan, or what? No Renault isn't sold in the U.S. Nissan is sold here, so no I haven't seen one in person but I have seen them. Because Renault have a great road going cars and a vast racing history in Sports Car, Rally, and F1.

No I compare a Megane RS to an Astra OPC...
Tell me Opel has no great road going cars and no vast history in Sports Cars and Rallye. I kindly advise you to inform yourself about that, maybe start by reading this thread so you will learn something more about Opel, Vauxhall, Holden and the whole of GM´s business outside of the USA.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh boy... ok I´ll explain:



Sorry but you´d need a lot of imagination to call this a re-badge!

Still doesn't disprove that it is a Buick re-badge which your post even shows.

Let me make it more simple for you, what I meant is Opel doesn't have a Buick or Cadillac that produces the upper end luxury cars. They only have Opel. Also you prove my point by saying Opel will bring out a new car. Also tell me since I actually gave you an example what does Astra have over the Cruze, other than interior? And even if I'm technically wrong, I'm still right because it is a re-badged Buick.

No, it is not.

So which is it, from my article and what you posted I'm right. Which is it being a re-badged Buick.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/buick-getting-opel-astra-gtc-may-get-astra-convertible-news

I do not dislike GM at all, but for so many years now, decisions made by GM harmed Opel because those guys there at the board misunderstood the European situation. I´d love if GM had a clear concept for their Brands, as to how they could coexist easily. Look at VAG, again. And how they did it with Audi, Skoda, Seat and the main VW. That is again, a european formula, the difference is, VAG found a good concept for the other big markets, USA and China for example. There is nothing I want more, but for GM to get it right this time and find a working formula.

Um, you do realize that GM is doing pretty well now, and that the economic situation from the recession is the reason Opel suffered because their parent company and Europe as well were in a major downturn. There is a whole thread you could read to get better understanding. I figured that was the reason you had issue with GM though, since that is usually the case that Europeans have with GM.

GM I believe still has the highest sales in China and did so during the Economic downturn and their profit has gone up her in the States and they are doing better (Ford I think is best).



Nonsense, the only market for Vauxhall is Great Britain, ALL of the rest of Europe has Opel (Ireland even has Opels as RHD)

I did take Geography a couple years ago for a few credits and I do recall that GB is in West Europe. If you wanted me to be descriptive then yes, but what does it matter as we both agreed and said they are the same car anyways so they might as well all be Opel.

Tell me Opel has no great road going cars and no vast history in Sports Cars and Rallye. I kindly advise you to inform yourself about that, maybe start by reading this thread so you will learn something more about Opel, Vauxhall, Holden and the whole of GM´s business outside of the USA.

I know quite alot about GM outside of the states, I'd rather you not act as if I'm not some nationalistic or xenophobic person that things GM is best. I'm a massive Holden fan as I said earlier and yet you keep putting me in this box because I'm American.

Hell I showed a picture of an older Opel touring car which also had that model seen in Rally. I'm not saying that Opel doesn't have racing history if I did say that, then why would I want to see their race cars in GT6. Try to use logic. All I was saying is maybe PD give a bigger selection of Renault because of nissan or perhaps they think they are a bigger name due to their race lineage which has bigger international sports that Opel doesn't.

I get the feeling that you either aren't paying any attention to my post or just reading bits that you want to. Or you don't understand what I actually mean and seem to take what I'm saying as some insult to a brand that you support.

 

[VXR]

They can´t stand a Opel badge on the Astra? lmao

Tell them to go get informations about wich Brand is responsible for the design, the built... actually the whole existance of an Astra.

The Astra is a Vauxhall name adopted by Opel to replace the Kadett and current 5-door Astras are made in Britain.

Not that I have any beef with Opel, just for the record.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The Astra is a Vauxhall name adopted by Opel to replace the Kadett and current 5-door Astras are made in Britain.

Not that I have any beef with Opel, just for the record.

Neither did I.

 

[Falango]

Thats not quite correct. Opel has been in every GT since GT2, though without premium cars in GT5. Vauxhall was only in GT5 as rebadged Opel cars, including cars that don't exist in real life (Vauxhall Astra V8 DTM...).

I was in the UCD no more than half an hour after I posted this, and noticed a Corsa in there, haha.

 

[Flaco13]

Still doesn't disprove that it is a Buick re-badge which your post even shows.



So which is it, from my article and what you posted I'm right. Which is it being a re-badged Buick.

You were talking about the Cruze:

The Buick, Chevy and Holden that match up with the Astra (Cruze/Astra).

And I said there IS no Chevrolet that matches the Astra, period.

Um, you do realize that GM is doing pretty well now, and that the economic situation from the recession is the reason Opel suffered because their parent company and Europe as well were in a major downturn. There is a whole thread you could read to get better understanding. I figured that was the reason you had issue with GM though, since that is usually the case that Europeans have with GM.

GM I believe still has the highest sales in China and did so during the Economic downturn and their profit has gone up her in the States and they are doing better (Ford I think is best).

Yes, but Opel needs to get out of the red numbers wich is only possible by entering markets GM previously had held bloqued. That situation has now changed or is currently changing.

I did take Geography a couple years ago for a few credits and I do recall that GB is in West Europe. If you wanted me to be descriptive then yes, but what does it matter as we both agreed and said they are the same car anyways so they might as well all be Opel.

So they teach you that Great Britain is Western Europe, but anything else is to be considered Eastern Europe? That means Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain... all Eastern Europe? Well, this is very amusing, are they actually teaching that? But you are right, this doesn´t belong here.

I know quite alot about GM outside of the states, I'd rather you not act as if I'm not some nationalistic or xenophobic person that things GM is best. I'm a massive Holden fan as I said earlier and yet you keep putting me in this box because I'm American.

Hell I showed a picture of an older Opel touring car which also had that model seen in Rally. I'm not saying that Opel doesn't have racing history if I did say that, then why would I want to see their race cars in GT6. Try to use logic. All I was saying is maybe PD give a bigger selection of Renault because of nissan or perhaps they think they are a bigger name due to their race lineage which has bigger international sports that Opel doesn't.

I get the feeling that you either aren't paying any attention to my post or just reading bits that you want to. Or you don't understand what I actually mean and seem to take what I'm saying as some insult to a brand that you support.

Yeah, because it seemed like you are exactly that xenophobic type you are trying not to be.

Not sure if anyone else has said it but I'll be the guy. Why? If they bring in more chevy (GM) compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models...you have Opel just with a different badge.

Blue color implied by me.

That was what you said, and that was what I told you wasn´t right.

Ok, so you say that PD should just bring the Buick Variants like the Excelle and Verano.

You said yourself you "wouldn´t call a Buick Verano a hardcore Chevy Cruze, just cushy stuff for a person to feel like they're extra 5-6K USD was spent well. "

I say Astra OPC, that is exactly what differs the Opel Models from the Buicks, because its sporty, it kicked the Scirocco R´s behind, all the OPC models are tested and set up on the Nordschleife. The Buicks just don´t have that.

And Holden? Wich Holden has an equal Opel Model? As far as I know, there was Holden Astra, but that was before Opel entered the Australian market. So only one! All the other Holdens like Statesman, Commodores, HSV´s... there is and has never been a rebadged Opel (VXR8 Bathurst is the exception, only exists as Vauxhall and only in Great Britain, Opel never sold this car)


Ok maybe Renault wasn´t the best thing to bring up as a comparison, because of the Nissan thing, I hadn´t thought about that tbh.

Then maybe Peugeot is a better example, GT5 has the 206 and 307GTi... why are those alright but an Astra OPC suddenly wouldn´t? That´s what I don´t get... now Peugeot has no relationship to a Japanese Brand, has it? Or would you say it was all because of PD´s involvement in developing the Citröen by GT?

The Astra is a Vauxhall name adopted by Opel to replace the Kadett and current 5-door Astras are made in Britain.

Not that I have any beef with Opel, just for the record.

Sure your right, but I talked about the development part. This is done mainly, I´d say around 85%, in Rüsselsheim, Germany. Now I´m sure that Vauxhall always has something to say during development aswell and I don´t mean to disrespect Vauxhall in any way. But I´m pretty sure, development, is pretty much done by Opel.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You were talking about the Cruze:

And I said there IS no Chevrolet that matches the Astra, period.

I just showed you a damn post where I talk about a Buick that matches the Astra. Which proves re-badge which you said no to. Quit acting naive.

Yes, but Opel needs to get out of the red numbers wich is only possible by entering markets GM previously had held bloqued. That situation has now changed or is currently changing.

Yes but as I said they had red numbers due to the same reasons other German manufactures were having trouble and looking that they my have to get help a few years back. Sorry but it isn't fully GMs fault, a global economic melt down is tough on anyone as I already said.

So they teach you that Great Britain is Western Europe, but anything else is to be considered Eastern Europe? That means Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain... all Eastern Europe? Well, this is very amusing, are they actually teaching that? But you are right, this doesn´t belong here.

You really know how to spin stuff, did you ever think of becoming a politician? Did I ever say anything else is Eastern Europe I'm just saying the main markets are U.K. (west/Vauxhall) and East which is Germany since that is the main sales for Opel quite obviously.

I'm talking about the sales figures from the top two areas UK and Germany, thus West and East. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

http://www.opel.com/content/dam/Opel/OpelCorporate/corporate/nscwebsite/en/02_ExperienceOpel/01_CompanyInformation/01_FactsFigures/Facts_Figures-4.pdf#page=39&zoom=auto,0,528

Yeah, because it seemed like you are exactly that xenophobic type you are trying not to be.

How exactly, if you jumped to that conclusion based on nothing really I'd say you'd be the stereotypical one. You based my conclusion on me being American not what I was saying which had nothing to do with the the country I come from. I find it quite rude that I'm some xenophobe because I don't see the point to adding Opel. Also it's stupid to say I'm a xenophobe yet I want to see Australian groups be presented, how exactly does that work?

Blue color implied by me.

That was what you said, and that was what I told you wasn´t right.

Ok, so you say that PD should just bring the Buick Variants like the Excelle and Verano.

You said yourself you "wouldn´t call a Buick Verano a hardcore Chevy Cruze, just cushy stuff for a person to feel like they're extra 5-6K USD was spent well. "

I say Astra OPC, that is exactly what differs the Opel Models from the Buicks, because its sporty, it kicked the Scirocco R´s behind, all the OPC models are tested and set up on the Nordschleife. The Buicks just don´t have that.

The Buick like Chevy and Cadillac are all tested (sport versions) and Nordschleife. The specs for the Buick are on par with the OPC. Are you trying to say that due to beating a VW Scirocco the car is better than the Buick? Also Buick's are cushy but they are also sporty.

And Holden? Wich Holden has an equal Opel Model? As far as I know, there was Holden Astra, but that was before Opel entered the Australian market. So only one! All the other Holdens like Statesman, Commodores, HSV´s... there is and has never been a rebadged Opel (VXR8 Bathurst is the exception, only exists as Vauxhall and only in Great Britain, Opel never sold this car)

You're right on this aspect. There were Holden's that were re-badge of Opel but no longer. I still say though that if any car company owned by GM needs more light in the game it is Holden and not Opel.