Should Opel make it to GT 6?

[Aero2000]

I hope Opel is in GT6, I have many cars from Opel I wish make it to the game

 

[Flaco13]

I just showed you a damn post where I talk about a Buick that matches the Astra. Which proves re-badge which you said no to. Quit acting naive.

Ahhhh

Let me make it more simple for you, what I meant is Opel doesn't have a Buick or Cadillac that produces the upper end luxury cars. They only have Opel. Also you prove my point by saying Opel will bring out a new car. Also tell me since I actually gave you an example what does Astra have over the Cruze, other than interior? And even if I'm technically wrong, I'm still right because it is a re-badged Buick

No, it is not.

I thought you say a Chevy Cruze was a rebadged Buick, wich it isn´t.

You really know how to spin stuff, did you ever think of becoming a politician? Did I ever say anything else is Eastern Europe I'm just saying the main markets are U.K. (west/Vauxhall) and East which is Germany since that is the main sales for Opel quite obviously.

I'm talking about the sales figures from the top two areas UK and Germany, thus West and East. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

http://www.opel.com/content/dam/Opel/OpelCorporate/corporate/nscwebsite/en/02_ExperienceOpel/01_CompanyInformation/01_FactsFigures/Facts_Figures-4.pdf#page=39&zoom=auto,0,528

Sorry I must leave now...to where? Oh I´m going to the far east, yeah, I will arrive in Egypt by 5p.m.

How exactly, if you jumped to that conclusion based on nothing really I'd say you'd be the stereotypical one. You based my conclusion on me being American not what I was saying which had nothing to do with the the country I come from. I find it quite rude that I'm some xenophobe because I don't see the point to adding Opel. Also it's stupid to say I'm a xenophobe yet I want to see Australian groups be presented, how exactly does that work?





The Buick like Chevy and Cadillac are all tested (sport versions) and Nordschleife. The specs for the Buick are on par with the OPC. Are you trying to say that due to beating a VW Scirocco the car is better than the Buick? Also Buick's are cushy but they are also sporty.

Hence why I said they are not just tested but set up especially for the Nordschleife, you seriously want to tell me those cars, developed for the American market, are aswell????
I´d like to see proof for the Buick beeing tested there, and that they are on par with the OPC models.

You're right on this aspect. There were Holden's that were re-badge of Opel but no longer. I still say though that if any car company owned by GM needs more light in the game it is Holden and not Opel.

And I think there is no Company that needs "more" light in the game, to me its 50-50. I´d like to see more Holden, more Chevy more Opel. But this thread is about Opel

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ahhhh

I thought you say a Chevy Cruze was a rebadged Buick, wich it isn´t.

I'm glad we finally have met eye to eye and you understand me on this part.

Sorry I must leave now...to where? Oh I´m going to the far east, yeah, I will arrive in Egypt by 5p.m.

What the hell does this even mean? Well have fun in Africa...

Hence why I said they are not just tested but set up especially for the Nordschleife, you seriously want to tell me those cars, developed for the American market, are aswell????
I´d like to see proof for the Buick beeing tested there, and that they are on par with the OPC models.

Yes they are, they purposely take them over their set them up and use it to prove that when you buy a GM you are getting luxury and speed. GM throws money at their cars to especially upper end to be fastest at Nordschleife. Once again you seem to stereotype because they're from the U.S., do you think only German groups use such a famous track. Almost everything is tested over there. Might want to look around.

Still haven't proven how I was this big bad xenophobe, waiting to see why I am one.

And I think there is no Company that needs "more" light in the game, to me its 50-50. I´d like to see more Holden, more Chevy more Opel. But this thread is about Opel

Yeah I know that and like I said (full circle yet again) I don't really see a reason for production road cars. But would like to see the racing cars be premium and more of them.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

After seeing some pictures of the more interesting Opel cars in this thread, I'm now more supportive for Opel being in GT6.

 

[Flaco13]

I'm glad we finally have met eye to eye and you understand me on this part.

If you look back at your post you might agree that you didn´t make it quite clear to wich car you were referring, Astra or Cruze.

... Also tell me since I actually gave you an example what does Astra have over the Cruze, other than interior? And even if I'm technically wrong, I'm still right because it is a re-badged Buick

What the hell does this even mean? Well have fun in Africa...

It is referred to as part of the Near East, not Far East. But I knew you wouldn´t understand it.

Yes they are, they purposely take them over their set them up and use it to prove that when you buy a GM you are getting luxury and speed. GM throws money at their cars to especially upper end to be fastest at Nordschleife. Once again you seem to stereotype because they're from the U.S., do you think only German groups use such a famous track. Almost everything is tested over there. Might want to look around.

Still haven't proven how I was this big bad xenophobe, waiting to see why I am one.

Because that´s the way your first post sounded like, I show it again:

Not sure if anyone else has said it but I'll be the guy. Why? If they bring in more chevy (GM) compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models...you have Opel just with a different badge.

I replied later:

Yeah, because it seemed like you are exactly that xenophobic type you are trying not to be.

But that doesn´t prove they are on par, the Regal GS comes with 270bhp and Front Wheel Drive
to be exact:
Engine:
Turbo 2.0L I4
Power:
270 HP / 295 LB-FT
Transmission:
6-Speed Manual
0-60 Time:
6.7 Seconds
Drivetrain:
Front-Wheel Drive
Curb Weight:
3,710 LBS
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/13/2012-buick-regal-gs-review/

I just wanted to put the compared stat´s of an Insignia OPC, but instead I found this in the very same link above:

"Sabatini has it right. As much as I like the way the GS goes about its business offering striking good looks and an appealing handling balance, I just can't wrap my head around this car's value equation. Part of that may be because I've driven the model that GM more-or-less promised U.S. enthusiasts – the Opel Insignia OPC, and it's an altogether more serious piece of kit. Rifle-bolt gearshift, seats by Channellock, snarlier 325-horsepower 2.8-liter V6 and a torque-vectoring all-wheel-drive system add up to a massive personality shift for the better. The OPC feels something like a cut-rate Audi S4, while the Regal GS feels like... a Regal with a really good sports pack and a row-it-yourself gearbox."

And they are now going to add AWD in 2014 http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/26/restyled-2014-buick-regal-adds-awd-regal-gs-loses-power/ a bit late you think not?

So again, I´d like you to show me the prove that Buick sets its cars up on the Nordschleife and how they are on par with the OPC lineup.

Yeah I know that and like I said (full circle yet again) I don't really see a reason for production road cars. But would like to see the racing cars be premium and more of them.

And I want both production and race, as that´s what I think GT is about. But the topic of Gran Turismo´s define nature is nothing to discuss here.

After all once they modelled an Insignia OPC, it wouldn´t be hard for them to make a Buick Regal GS aswell and I wouldn´t mind at all. I never said I wouldn´t welcome any Buick in the game.

But if you still I think I dislike american cars, please see one of my last posts in the Car&Tracks wishlist thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8677039#post8677039

After seeing some pictures of the more interesting Opel cars in this thread, I'm now more supportive for Opel being in GT6.

Nice to hear that, especially when its coming from a Silly Ford guy jk

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If you look back at your post you might agree that you didn´t make it quite clear to wich car you were referring, Astra or Cruze.



It is referred to as part of the Near East, not Far East. But I knew you wouldn´t understand it.

It's referred to as Africa and sometimes Middle East by politicians, it was a stupid quip that I haven't ever heard called the Near East. Maybe they teach you guys and refer to it differently than others.

Because that´s the way your first post sounded like, I show it again: I replied later:

How, once again do you not understand things very well? I'm not Australian yet I want to see more Aussie cars, so how could I want this and be xenophobic. Just because I don't want to see a car from your region, doesn't mean I hate your region Flacco. Don't try to twist this into some personal attack, I just don't see the reason for current Opel, just like I don't see the reason for GT86/FR-S both being in the game.d

But that doesn´t prove they are on par, the Regal GS comes with 270bhp and Front Wheel Drive
to be exact:
Engine:
Turbo 2.0L I4
Power:
270 HP / 295 LB-FT
Transmission:
6-Speed Manual
0-60 Time:
6.7 Seconds
Drivetrain:
Front-Wheel Drive
Curb Weight:
3,710 LBS
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/13/2012-buick-regal-gs-review/

I just wanted to put the compared stat´s of an Insignia OPC, but instead I found this in the very same link above:

"Sabatini has it right. As much as I like the way the GS goes about its business offering striking good looks and an appealing handling balance, I just can't wrap my head around this car's value equation. Part of that may be because I've driven the model that GM more-or-less promised U.S. enthusiasts – the Opel Insignia OPC, and it's an altogether more serious piece of kit. Rifle-bolt gearshift, seats by Channellock, snarlier 325-horsepower 2.8-liter V6 and a torque-vectoring all-wheel-drive system add up to a massive personality shift for the better. The OPC feels something like a cut-rate Audi S4, while the Regal GS feels like... a Regal with a really good sports pack and a row-it-yourself gearbox."

And they are now going to add AWD in 2014 http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/26/restyled-2014-buick-regal-adds-awd-regal-gs-loses-power/ a bit late you think not?

So again, I´d like you to show me the prove that Buick sets its cars up on the Nordschleife and how they are on par with the OPC lineup.

Pretty sure I've been talking about Verano, which is slightly faster than the Regal. Since you were just talking about the Astra, stick to what were talking about. Stop moving the goal post to win a petty argument. Also I guess you don't realize that GM builds some of their cars in Germany's Opel plant then test them over at the Ring, which only further shows re-badge. Just because one car doesn't get AWD doesn't mean crap to be honest.

If an American wants a more powerful AWD version they'll go buy a Cadillac instead, which are also tested at the Ring. Like I said they need to balance what cars get what while Opel doesn't. Buick could be like the OPC but instead you'd have to get an XTS or CTS or you could stick with Buick and get a LaCrosse all of these are more like the OPC. While the Regal is more like the lower Insignia models.


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1004_2011_buick_regal/viewall.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-buick-regal-gs-automatic-test-review

And I want both production and race, as that´s what I think GT is about. But the topic of Gran Turismo´s define nature is nothing to discuss here.

If you say so you brought it up.

After all once they modelled an Insignia OPC, it wouldn´t be hard for them to make a Buick Regal GS aswell and I wouldn´t mind at all. I never said I wouldn´t welcome any Buick in the game.

I never said you wouldn't welcome a Buick, that isn't the impression I got, I am not the one loosely calling people xenophobes without any basis or facts. I'm sure you'd be fine with Buicks but once again why do we need two cars that are pretty much the same from the same family (GM)? With people very irritated at GT's number padding and having far too many same or similar cars it is stupid to keep doing it.

I also never said anything about modeling, it's obvious it wouldn't be too hard, we've seen that with the GT86/FR-S and other cars. I'm more worried if Opel doesn't care to be in GT, the license is my worry. You have to wonder why GT haven't had any new models for a long time. Also what if PD don't want Opel based on what I've already said.

But if you still I think I dislike american cars, please see one of my last posts in the Car&Tracks wishlist thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8677039#post8677039

You told me that when you had issue with the economic business model of GM that you have some issue with the American company. I never once said you hated the car, I just could tell you weren't a big fan of the GM executives and I was right since you said so yourself, which is why I asked.

 

[Flaco13]

It's referred to as Africa and sometimes Middle East by politicians, it was a stupid quip that I haven't ever heard called the Near East. Maybe they teach you guys and refer to it differently than others.



How, once again do you not understand things very well? I'm not Australian yet I want to see more Aussie cars, so how could I want this and be xenophobic. Just because I don't want to see a car from your region, doesn't mean I hate your region Flacco. Don't try to twist this into some personal attack, I just don't see the reason for current Opel, just like I don't see the reason for GT86/FR-S both being in the game.d



Pretty sure I've been talking about Verano, which is slightly faster than the Regal. Since you were just talking about the Astra, stick to what were talking about. Stop moving the goal post to win a petty argument. Also I guess you don't realize that GM builds some of their cars in Germany's Opel plant then test them over at the Ring, which only further shows re-badge. Just because one car doesn't get AWD doesn't mean crap to be honest.

If an American wants a more powerful AWD version they'll go buy a Cadillac instead, which are also tested at the Ring. Like I said they need to balance what cars get what while Opel doesn't. Buick could be like the OPC but instead you'd have to get an XTS or CTS or you could stick with Buick and get a LaCrosse all of these are more like the OPC. While the Regal is more like the lower Insignia models.


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1004_2011_buick_regal/viewall.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-buick-regal-gs-automatic-test-review





If you say so you brought it up.



I never said you wouldn't welcome a Buick, that isn't the impression I got, I am not the one loosely calling people xenophobes without any basis or facts. I'm sure you'd be fine with Buicks but once again why do we need two cars that are pretty much the same from the same family (GM)? With people very irritated at GT's number padding and having far too many same or similar cars it is stupid to keep doing it.

I also never said anything about modeling, it's obvious it wouldn't be too hard, we've seen that with the GT86/FR-S and other cars. I'm more worried if Opel doesn't care to be in GT, the license is my worry. You have to wonder why GT haven't had any new models for a long time. Also what if PD don't want Opel based on what I've already said.



You told me that when you had issue with the economic business model of GM that you have some issue with the American company. I never once said you hated the car, I just could tell you weren't a big fan of the GM executives and I was right since you said so yourself, which is why I asked.

Verano? "2013 Verano Turbo delivers impressive power with its 2.0L Ecotec® 250hp 4-cylinder turbocharged engine" source: Buick website

It´s a SEDAN man, please tell me already how this is on par with an Astra OPC, a HATCHBACK that comes with 280bhp! Is a Buick Verano, despite it beeing a different shape (Sedan), able to run a 8:20.xxx on the Nordschleife?http://www.sportauto.de/supertest/opel-astra-opc-im-test-wahrer-nordschleifen-blitz-6146134.html
You still didn´t show me that any Buick was set up there, only "tested"

Or wich other Buick do you want to compare to an Opel? The Encore or Enclave? SUV´s in GT???
The LaCrosse? There is no re-badged Opel (yet), and the more I´m researching Buick and their technical stats the more I think what bad of an idea it would be for Opel to bring a car that is based on the LaCrosse.

What about the Corsa? Buick doesn´t have it.

Adam? GM doesn´t have it in the US.

Regal GS isn´t on par to Insignia OPC
Verano is nothing like an Astra OPC

What do you even want?

The only way I could see your point is if you wanted a Verano very badly. To properly compare it to an Opel you would do so with the Astra Sedan, a car that isn´t very much sought after in Western Europe, there is no OPC Version, for obvious reasons. Nobody would want it here!

I wish PD will bring the whole Buick lineup, in a Verano, it´s gonna be so much fun trying to stay close to an AI Driver driving a Scirocco R or a Focus ST.

I don´t care for winning an argument, I want you to stop thinking Buick would do for GT, instead of Opel. If GM had the whole lineup, with comparable perfomance you would be right, and even though I would still not have the badge I´d rather see, I could accept the Buicks etc.

But they don´t have the lineup, nor the perfomance, not even close.

Oh and just for the record: " According to National Geographic, the terms Near East and Middle East denote the same territories and are 'generally accepted as comprising the countries of the Arabian Peninsula, Cyprus, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestinian territories, Syria, and Turkey" s:wikipedia

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Verano? "2013 Verano Turbo delivers impressive power with its 2.0L Ecotec® 250hp 4-cylinder turbocharged engine" source: Buick website

It´s a SEDAN man, please tell me already how this is on par with an Astra OPC, a HATCHBACK that comes with 280bhp! Is a Buick Verano, despite it beeing a different shape (Sedan), able to run a 8:20.xxx on the Nordschleife?http://www.sportauto.de/supertest/opel-astra-opc-im-test-wahrer-nordschleifen-blitz-6146134.html
You still didn´t show me that any Buick was set up there, only "tested"

So let me get this correct, car companies spend all the money to test their cars only to never use the data as part of the setup and tuning of their cars? Read that question out loud to yourself and then slowly think, before you respond with further daft comments.

The Verano is a rebadged Opel Astra J Sedan, I've already said that GM doesn't use every body style Opel or Holden. However, any model GM produces Opel or Holden will have a version of it in some form (sedan, compact, hatch, wagon, crossover). Buick isn't going to have a hatchback, and I'll tell you why (even though I already did) it's because Chevy sells Hatchbacks while Buick is Luxury for a lower price and Cadillac is upper end like Mercedes and BMW.

Or wich other Buick do you want to compare to an Opel? The Encore or Enclave? SUV´s in GT???
The LaCrosse? There is no re-badged Opel (yet), and the more I´m researching Buick and their technical stats the more I think what bad of an idea it would be for Opel to bring a car that is based on the LaCrosse.

Why do you keep pushing this SUV and Crossover agenda through the entire conversation. I haven't talked about it or brought it up yet you do? Is it another distraction to detract and back paddle? PD doesn't have any SUVs and or Crossovers, I'm not sure why you'd expect them too all of a sudden or question me like I even talked about them. Do you know how to have an intellectual debate or is spin your only quality?

What about the Corsa? Buick doesn´t have it.

No but Chevy does, I guess you didn't get the point (yet again) Buick isn't going to have everything. GM has four makes Buick, Cadillac, Chevy and GMC. Chevy's Spark and Sonic

Adam? GM doesn´t have it in the US.

I love how you phrase the statement differently, from before to now. Anyways, I'd agree with you on this GM doesn't have one really, since they already have the Sonic and Spark which is obviously to do battle here at home with Ford's models not to have everything Opel wants. The Adam seems more like a homage to the creator of Opel to me.

Regal GS isn´t on par to Insignia OPC
Verano is nothing like an Astra OPC

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, because GM built the GS and OPC to be comparable even if they don't yield the same power and what not. Here is another Article for you to read that you probably wont. Yet it still remains as I showed that the car is a re-badge, the reason they don't have the same V6 twin turbo, is because Cadillac as it for their line up, thus having Buick vs Cadillac doesn't help the marketing at the end of the day.

http://www.carscoops.com/2010/01/new-buick-regal-gs-gm-rebadges-opel.html

What do you even want?

Cars obviously

The only way I could see your point is if you wanted a Verano very badly. To properly compare it to an Opel you would do so with the Astra Sedan, a car that isn´t very much sought after in Western Europe, there is no OPC Version, for obvious reasons. Nobody would want it here!

To be fair I rather have the Cadillacs more so than Buick, but I rather have both and Holden. Also it once again looks like you didn't read my post which explains the reason a Buick doesn't have an OPC version. Let me remind you, it's because of Cadillac. I also obviously want Opel too if you read my post, I just don't see a reason among the tons of other cars we could have to why Opel should be a high priority.

I wish PD will bring the whole Buick lineup, in a Verano, it´s gonna be so much fun trying to stay close to an AI Driver driving a Scirocco R or a Focus ST.

Sure I guess, I don't see how it'd have trouble up against an ST, I've test driven both and the Verano I think is better.

I don´t care for winning an argument, I want you to stop thinking Buick would do for GT, instead of Opel. If GM had the whole lineup, with comparable perfomance you would be right, and even though I would still not have the badge I´d rather see, I could accept the Buicks etc.

But they don´t have the lineup, nor the perfomance, not even close.

You really haven't proven to me why Opel other than their racing history needs to even be in GT. If it isn't a GM it's a Fiat or Renault, just because GM doesn't use every platform they develop into a car to sale here doesn't negate the fact that Opel has re-badged cars. If we take your point of view, since Buick doesn't have a hatchback that means an Opel of the same name in sedan (saloon) isn't a re-badge either? That a bit asinine to think one size fits all.

Oh and just for the record: " According to National Geographic, the terms Near East and Middle East denote the same territories and are 'generally accepted as comprising the countries of the Arabian Peninsula, Cyprus, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestinian territories, Syria, and Turkey" s:wikipedia

It's a geopolitical term...Egypt is part of Africa the terms derivation is a Euro-centric one in nature and thus the obvious language gap that I said already and you fail to see. Since near east isn't something used in the U.S. you could understand (I'd hope) why it wasn't understood.

Either way it has nothing to do with this really, unless you have some info on PD mapping the entire Middle East (near east).

At the end of the day I've provided plenty of articles to show there is re-badges and from your rhetoric you'd make it seem as if Opel and GM aren't related in anyway. Just because (once again) GM doesn't use every single version Opel has doesn't mean anything, really it doesn't. For the market region of GM's home base and the manufactures used they obviously only feel that certain versions need to be sold.

 

[Flaco13]

Bad news:

Sorry LMSCorvetteGT2 I didn´t read your reply yet, I´ll do so and answer as soon as I can.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Bad news:

Sorry LMSCorvetteGT2 I didn´t read your reply yet, I´ll do so and answer as soon as I can.

This confirms what I thought that PD probably haven't gone to Opel, and it doesn't seem like Opel is trying very hard to get PD's attention either which is what I said early on.

 

[Samus]

To be fair the person replying to that message would just be a social media gopher, I doubt he would know of any top level dealings. He couldn't even get the name of the game correct.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To be fair the person replying to that message would just be a social media gopher, I doubt he would know of any top level dealings. He couldn't even get the name of the game correct.

Yeah you do have a point Samus.

 

[Samus]

It could also just be a stock answer if they aren't allowed to reveal any information regarding a deal. When licenses are agreed upon there are many restrictions for both parties about what can be revealed and when.

That doesn't mean there is an Opel deal of course but don't lose hope over that message.

 

[GranTurismo916]

Bad news:

Sorry LMSCorvetteGT2 I didn´t read your reply yet, I´ll do so and answer as soon as I can.

No, it looks like they're talking about Gran Tourismo 6.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Nice to hear that, especially when its coming from a Silly Ford guy jk

hehe, I may have a big love for Ford, but I have a liking towards GM cars as well.


As for LMSCorvetteGT2's comment about bringing Buick cars based on Opels into GT6, I don't see the point of that tbh. The only Buicks I would want in GT6 would be a couple of the classic Muscle Cars that the manufacture made. If it's a rebadged Opel, I rather have the actual Opel; especially if it's the Astra OPC.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

hehe, I may have a big love for Ford, but I have a liking towards GM cars as well.

I can understand and sympathize with that.

 

[Matej]

Opel should be in GT6, as long as they use OPC models. Otherwise, their presence is not so important.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Opel should be in GT6, as long as they use OPC models. Otherwise, their presence is not so important.

This is more reasonable.

 

[Flaco13]

So let me get this correct, car companies spend all the money to test their cars only to never use the data as part of the setup and tuning of their cars? Read that question out loud to yourself and then slowly think, before you respond with further daft comments.[/URL]

Totally twisted up everything I said. I didn´t speak of part of the setup, OPC models have a button:

wich, after pushing, changes characteristics on suspension etc. This "opc-mode" is a 1:1 Nordschleife setup, something not every manufacturer offers. Usually they leave a bit of comfort for the use on a public-road.

The Verano is a rebadged Opel Astra J Sedan, I've already said that GM doesn't use every body style Opel or Holden. However, any model GM produces Opel or Holden will have a version of it in some form (sedan, compact, hatch, wagon, crossover). Buick isn't going to have a hatchback, and I'll tell you why (even though I already did) it's because Chevy sells Hatchbacks while Buick is Luxury for a lower price and Cadillac is upper end like Mercedes and BMW.

So we agree that there is no U.S. equivalent for the Astra OPC model, which only comes as a hatchback, based on the Astra GTC. And the existing Chevy hatchbacks are not re-badged Opels, as we already covered earlier. I´d like to remind you, once again, on your initial post that led to all this discussion:

Not sure if anyone else has said it but I'll be the guy. Why? If they bring in more chevy compact and midsize models and upper end Holden models...you have Opel just with a different badge

You have been corrected on both points, aswell as the later excuse on it by bringing Buick into the mix, claiming the Buick´s were on par with Opels OPC models.

Why do you keep pushing this SUV and Crossover agenda through the entire conversation. I haven't talked about it or brought it up yet you do? Is it another distraction to detract and back paddle? PD doesn't have any SUVs and or Crossovers, I'm not sure why you'd expect them too all of a sudden or question me like I even talked about them. Do you know how to have an intellectual debate or is spin your only quality?

Through the entire conversation? It was the first time in our conversation I mentioned SUV, and it was pretty obvious that it was nothing more than a side-note really as I listed the Buick lineup. How you could have read into this as a demand on my part for SUV´s in GT is beyond me.

No but Chevy does, I guess you didn't get the point (yet again) Buick isn't going to have everything. GM has four makes Buick, Cadillac, Chevy and GMC. Chevy's Spark and Sonic

So Chevy has the Corsa? Say do you even do any research at all before you post?
The Sonic/Aveo are definately no re-badged Opel, they do share the Gamma-plattform and different parts but that´s about it. Spark is also not a re-badged Opel Agila, might share platform though, not sure.

I still don´t see why, as you suggest, PD shouldn´t have Opel because of the Chevy "compact and mid-size models".

I love how you phrase the statement differently, from before to now. Anyways, I'd agree with you on this GM doesn't have one really, since they already have the Sonic and Spark which is obviously to do battle here at home with Ford's models not to have everything Opel wants. The Adam seems more like a homage to the creator of Opel to me.

Yes, it is a homage to the creator of Opel, but not limited to this, it is also the replacement for the Agila. And it has a pretty succesful Rallye-Cup version.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, because GM built the GS and OPC to be comparable even if they don't yield the same power and what not. Here is another Article for you to read that you probably wont. Yet it still remains as I showed that the car is a re-badge, the reason they don't have the same V6 twin turbo, is because Cadillac as it for their line up, thus having Buick vs Cadillac doesn't help the marketing at the end of the day.

http://www.carscoops.com/2010/01/new-buick-regal-gs-gm-rebadges-opel.html

Of course, the Regal is a re-badged Insignia I never said otherwise. It´s true what you say that they probably didn´t want to make the GS a 1:1 OPC copy because of Cadillac (although it won´t reach any V-Series in terms of performance, so... actually... why not?) But the thing is that you called them to be on par although every article you and me posted said the total opposite. I don´t know what you understand under the term "on par" but doesn´t it mean "equal"? And that in order to be on par the GS would have to be a AWD 325bhp V6? And again, I understood you saying that Opel, hence also Insignia OPC, wasn´t necessary because GM had them in the US under different badges, ok... but if the Opel version has the better performance why should they want the GS? At the end of theday they could just include both.

Cars obviously

...except if they were from Europe and were believed to have US equivalents, obviously.

To be fair I rather have the Cadillacs more so than Buick, but I rather have both and Holden. Also it once again looks like you didn't read my post which explains the reason a Buick doesn't have an OPC version. Let me remind you, it's because of Cadillac. I also obviously want Opel too if you read my post, I just don't see a reason among the tons of other cars we could have to why Opel should be a high priority.

Without a doubt, Cadillac needs to be in GT. Opel doesn´t have a high priority over any other underrepresented or unrepresented Brands such as Porsche, Skoda, Seat, Saab, Koenigsegg, Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, Kia, bla bla bla... you name it... It´s just that this thread is about Opel. If anybody
likes another brand more he/she be free to create one!

Sure I guess, I don't see how it'd have trouble up against an ST, I've test driven both and the Verano I think is better.



You really haven't proven to me why Opel other than their racing history needs to even be in GT. If it isn't a GM it's a Fiat or Renault, just because GM doesn't use every platform they develop into a car to sale here doesn't negate the fact that Opel has re-badged cars. If we take your point of view, since Buick doesn't have a hatchback that means an Opel of the same name in sedan (saloon) isn't a re-badge either? That a bit asinine to think one size fits all.

Proven "to you" obviously that´s impossible

Please name me one Fiat or Renault that is a rebadged Opel...

An Opel (Sedan) of the same name isn´t a rebadge either.... What does that even mean?
You understood me saying the Verano wasn´t a rebadged Opel? I never said that. A Buick Verano is a rebadged Opel Astra Sedan, both developed by Opel in Rüsselsheim and while Verano is manufactured in the USA (or Canada?) the Astra Sedan is build in Poland both for their aimed target market.

If one of us thinks "one size fits all" it is you, for it was you who made the claim they were all the same!

At the end of the day I've provided plenty of articles to show there is re-badges and from your rhetoric you'd make it seem as if Opel and GM aren't related in anyway. Just because (once again) GM doesn't use every single version Opel has doesn't mean anything, really it doesn't. For the market region of GM's home base and the manufactures used they obviously only feel that certain versions need to be sold.

You claimed there were Chevys and Holden as rebadged Opels, both turned out to be wrong.
Just because GM doesn´t use the OPC/VXR models in the US, it doesn´t mean PD shouldn´t have them, really it doesn´t.

It could also just be a stock answer if they aren't allowed to reveal any information regarding a deal. When licenses are agreed upon there are many restrictions for both parties about what can be revealed and when.

That doesn't mean there is an Opel deal of course but don't lose hope over that message.

Thank you Samus, I think you are right about the stock answer. I´m not going to lose hope just yet.

hehe, I may have a big love for Ford, but I have a liking towards GM cars as well.


As for LMSCorvetteGT2's comment about bringing Buick cars based on Opels into GT6, I don't see the point of that tbh. The only Buicks I would want in GT6 would be a couple of the classic Muscle Cars that the manufacture made. If it's a rebadged Opel, I rather have the actual Opel; especially if it's the Astra OPC.

That´s cool, though I can´t say the same for myself. But the game needs a couple of Fords aswell, new and old ones. At least we know about the 2013 Mustang Shelby GT 500 already.

About the LMSCorvetteGT2 demand I couldn´t agree more with you, but to have the Verano with 255bhp and even the Regal GS (if we get Insignia opc,too) wouldn´t hurt anybody either.

Opel should be in GT6, as long as they use OPC models. Otherwise, their presence is not so important.

Well I would like some classics and race cars (and classic race cars) aswell

This is more reasonable.

Well I see you must´ve changed your mind since you have just agreed on the opc models. 👍

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

That´s cool, though I can´t say the same for myself. But the game needs a couple of Fords aswell, new and old ones. At least we know about the 2013 Mustang Shelby GT 500 already.

About the LMSCorvetteGT2 demand I couldn´t agree more with you, but to have the Verano with 255bhp and even the Regal GS (if we get Insignia opc,too) wouldn´t hurt anybody either.

Trust me Flaco, I know GT needs more Fords, the 2013 Shelby GT500 and 2013 Focus ST are a nice start though. I'm still begging for the Cosworth Fords, FPV Falcons, and the other mustangs.

Yeah, that's true about those 2. I would drive the Regal GS, just not the verano (it's kinda boring to me).

Also, there's apparently a few other astras from Chevy. Which reminds me, why weren't the opels then sold to the US as Chevys?

Chevrolet Astra GSI

 

[Flaco13]

Trust me Flaco, I know GT needs more Fords, the 2013 Shelby GT500 and 2013 Focus ST are a nice start though. I'm still begging for the Cosworth Fords, FPV Falcons, and the other mustangs.

Yeah, that's true about those 2. I would drive the Regal GS, just not the verano (it's kinda boring to me).

Also, there's apparently a few other astras from Chevy. Which reminds me, why weren't the opels then sold to the US as Chevys?

http://pitstopbrasil.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/vectra-gt-remix-1.jpg[/IMG

Chevrolet Astra GSI
[IMG]http://www.fondos10.net/wp-content/uploads/images/fondos10-net_coches-94.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

The Latin-American Chevy rebadges, I am aware of their existance, but I don´t think that´s what LMSCorvette was refering to. Pointless IMO to bring these in GT, because of the same reasons as the prior Verano vs. Astra OPC discussion ... the performance difference, the Astra H in the picture above had a OPC version with 240bhp; the Astra G from your pic below existed as an opc with 200bhp (not as a sedan like in the picture).

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The Latin-American Chevy rebadges, I am aware of their existance, but I don´t think that´s what LMSCorvette was refering to. Pointless IMO to bring these in GT.

I wasn't saying they should be in GT, I just felt like bringing them up. lol.

I'm aware that LMS wasn't talking about these.

 

[Flaco13]

I wasn't saying they should be in GT, I just felt like bringing them up. lol.

I'm aware that LMS wasn't talking about these.

Well, maybe he was... just to prove himself correct about the "Chevy had rebadged Opels" claim, who knows

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Totally twisted up everything I said. I didn´t speak of part of the setup, OPC models have a button:
wich, after pushing, changes characteristics on suspension etc. This "opc-mode" is a 1:1 Nordschleife setup, something not every manufacturer offers. Usually they leave a bit of comfort for the use on a public-road.

So a single button disregards the reality that GM test their cars at the Ring and use that data to set them up in America. Plenty of GM cars have a button or buttons that change the characteristics of the car. They usually are in the upper range though and cost as much as two Buick Veranos.

So we agree that there is no U.S. equivalent for the Astra OPC model, which only comes as a hatchback, based on the Astra GTC. And the existing Chevy hatchbacks are not re-badged Opels, as we already covered earlier. I´d like to remind you, once again, on your initial post that led to all this discussion: You have been corrected on both points, aswell as the later excuse on it by bringing Buick into the mix, claiming the Buick´s were on par with Opels OPC models.

You talk about me twisting things up and you have hardly understood what I've said from the drop, and made this look like an exercise of me trying to explain English to a non-native English speaker. Once again I wasn't talk astra, the article I give and for everyone following this, shows the OPC I talked about was the Regal GS. We already covered the Astra with the Renault that you brought up... I don't know why you feel you can't stay on point and you just have to circumvent backwards to seem relevant all while cherry picking which facts you want to use.

I know my initial post and it doesn't claim anything toward the Astra, if that is all you have to work with then I guess PD only need to model the Astra OPC for this to end. (this back and forth between us that is)

Through the entire conversation? It was the first time in our conversation I mentioned SUV, and it was pretty obvious that it was nothing more than a side-note really as I listed the Buick lineup. How you could have read into this as a demand on my part for SUV´s in GT is beyond me.

You brought it up more than one in passing or in detail, which led me to say what I said. If that wasn't your intention then move one.

So Chevy has the Corsa? Say do you even do any research at all before you post?
The Sonic/Aveo are definately no re-badged Opel, they do share the Gamma-plattform and different parts but that´s about it. Spark is also not a re-badged Opel Agila, might share platform though, not sure.

I still don´t see why, as you suggest, PD shouldn´t have Opel because of the Chevy "compact and mid-size models".

Same could be asked of you, you seem to not do your research either as I've pointed out plenty of flaws with your argumentation. As for me saying their shouldn't be Opel, now your suffering from selective memory, I said plenty of times I would be fine with Opel, I see no reason really for the newer production line up due to so many cars being of same body and performance numbers.

I never said Spark was a re-badged Agila...though it does share the same platform as the Spark.

Yes, it is a homage to the creator of Opel, but not limited to this, it is also the replacement for the Agila. And it has a pretty succesful Rallye-Cup version.

Never said it was only a homage to the creator either...

Of course, the Regal is a re-badged Insignia I never said otherwise. It´s true what you say that they probably didn´t want to make the GS a 1:1 OPC copy because of Cadillac (although it won´t reach any V-Series in terms of performance, so... actually... why not?) But the thing is that you called them to be on par although every article you and me posted said the total opposite. I don´t know what you understand under the term "on par" but doesn´t it mean "equal"? And that in order to be on par the GS would have to be a AWD 325bhp V6? And again, I understood you saying that Opel, hence also Insignia OPC, wasn´t necessary because GM had them in the US under different badges, ok... but if the Opel version has the better performance why should they want the GS? At the end of theday they could just include both.

On par usually is to say comparable, equal would be 1:1. For the most part the cars identical if it weren't for the power-train. GM isn't going to have a car with 325 and have a 340+ Cadillac that is nearly twice as much, if they did it would obviously hinder sales, it's all easier to just put an ecotec engine in every damn thing I guess. Even the OPC Astra has the Ecotec...

Or they could just put the Cadillac in rather than the Insignia OPC or the Buick GS, I mean this is really all subjective not sure why you act like me saying this would exclude them. (don't take the last part literally)

...except if they were from Europe and were believed to have US equivalents, obviously.

Just when I was gaining a liking to you, you go and say the piece of daft rubbish. I guess once again since I don't care to see new Opel cars and only old Opel cars I must dislike European cars that have or still have American counterparts [Sarcasm included]. Better yet I guess I hate all foreign cars since you thought I was a xenophobe based on no evidence other than me not liking your favorite brand [sarcasm still there].

Without a doubt, Cadillac needs to be in GT. Opel doesn´t have a high priority over any other underrepresented or unrepresented Brands such as Porsche, Skoda, Seat, Saab, Koenigsegg, Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, Kia, bla bla bla... you name it... It´s just that this thread is about Opel. If anybody
likes another brand more he/she be free to create one![/QUOTE]

Pontiac doesn't need to be in GT, the last GTO was just a de-tuned Holden, the original GTO and Trans-am I could see...but other than that Pontiac is gone and was garbage out the door.

Porsche will never happen enough said, I and others have covered this till we were blue in the face.

Kia...what would you have from them, I'd rather see their more recently successful South Korean counterpart.

I'd love Skoda and Seat purely due to WTCC, BTCC and WRC.

Saab...I rather see Opel any day of the year over Saab

Koenigsegg who wouldn't want more of them? Along with Gumpert, Nobel, Aston Martin, and tons others. However as you said this is about your beloved Opel cars.

Proven "to you" obviously that´s impossible

Likewise

Please name me one Fiat or Renault that is a rebadged Opel...

An Opel (Sedan) of the same name isn´t a rebadge either.... What does that even mean?
You understood me saying the Verano wasn´t a rebadged Opel? I never said that. A Buick Verano is a rebadged Opel Astra Sedan, both developed by Opel in Rüsselsheim and while Verano is manufactured in the USA (or Canada?) the Astra Sedan is build in Poland both for their aimed target market.

I showed you an article where certain Buick's were put together in Europe along side their Opel counterparts, the article said what you just echoed from it...

It is a re-badge, the Astra Sedan is the Verano, you act as if GM is going to take every version of the Astra bring it to the U.S. market, then make them all versions of the Verano. Why, yet again would they do this, and then lose sales in other cars of the same configuration? There is a reason Saturn and Pontiac don't exist anymore, and it because of a bloated car group that have multiples of the same function car across multiple brands, sold to the same demographics.

If one of us thinks "one size fits all" it is you, for it was you who made the claim they were all the same!

If you can show me where I said word for word they are all the same, that'd be nice. Too bad in the world of reality I didn't. So no I don't and if I did wouldn't I not want any Opel cars?

Also I already said when it came to Holden you were right. GM usually has a chevy or some other american (in the past Pontiac) make that is a Holden re-badge. I already agreed with you that currently Holden doesn't have any re-badge of Opel, though in the past they did.

You claimed there were Chevys and Holden as rebadged Opels, both turned out to be wrong.
Just because GM doesn´t use the OPC/VXR models in the US, it doesn´t mean PD shouldn´t have them, really it doesn´t.

I wasn't wrong, you misquoted me after I edited and fixed what I said to you Chevy = GM. Since I did say that I tend to refer to Chevy as GM since that is the flagship and main brand, but I didn't mean Chevy only. If you want to keep acting as if I didn't fix my mistake just so you can claim I'm full out wrong, your being myopic with the truth.

Also if you read again I already agreed with you about Holden this time and in the past, either read the full post or quit responding to me.

Well I see you must´ve changed your mind since you have just agreed on the opc models. 👍

No, you just jumped to a conclusion because you wanted to gloat as if you had won. In reality OPC only would be better than what seems to be a dream wishlist (reason you started this thread). Rather than have the regular and OPC like you seem to suggest, and vintage the main performance cars would be all that matters. Does that mean I still want them? No. Can I understand that user only wanting to see those cars based on a racing "sim"? Yes.

Trust me Flaco, I know GT needs more Fords, the 2013 Shelby GT500 and 2013 Focus ST are a nice start though. I'm still begging for the Cosworth Fords, FPV Falcons, and the other mustangs.

Yeah, that's true about those 2. I would drive the Regal GS, just not the verano (it's kinda boring to me).

Also, there's apparently a few other astras from Chevy. Which reminds me, why weren't the opels then sold to the US as Chevys?


Chevrolet Astra GSI

Well first off, when I said chevy I meant GM in general as the U.S. goes. Yes I did think of these as far as Chevy goes, but I think Flacco would come up with some excuse about how they still aren't OPC as he did with you. The fact still remains they are a re-badge, even if they don't have the OPC version. To be honest, we're going in circles anyways...

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Well first off, when I said chevy I meant GM in general as the U.S. goes. Yes I did think of these as far as Chevy goes, but I think Flacco would come up with some excuse about how they still aren't OPC as he did with you. The fact still remains they are a re-badge, even if they don't have the OPC version. To be honest, we're going in circles anyways...

OH, alright then. I still kinda find it funny that GM decided to rebadge one of their cars 4-5 times and didn't even change the name.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

OH, alright then. I still kinda find it funny that GM decided to rebadge one of their cars 4-5 times and didn't even change the name.

Yeah, I would really like to meet the guys who make such lame choices. I'm sure they're boring people

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Yeah, I would really like to meet the guys who make such lame choices. I'm sure they're boring people

It's wierd too, because GM has rebadged cars this many times before and came up with new names for the rebadges. I don't see why they couldn't with the Astra.

 

[Flaco13]

So a single button disregards the reality that GM test their cars at the Ring and use that data to set them up in America. Plenty of GM cars have a button or buttons that change the characteristics of the car. They usually are in the upper range though and cost as much as two Buick Veranos.

It doesn´t disregard that cars are being tested there, I told you already what the difference between other manufacturers setup changing buttons are.

You talk about me twisting things up and you have hardly understood what I've said from the drop, and made this look like an exercise of me trying to explain English to a non-native English speaker. Once again I wasn't talk astra, the article I give and for everyone following this, shows the OPC I talked about was the Regal GS. We already covered the Astra with the Renault that you brought up... I don't know why you feel you can't stay on point and you just have to circumvent backwards to seem relevant all while cherry picking which facts you want to use.

I know my initial post and it doesn't claim anything toward the Astra, if that is all you have to work with then I guess PD only need to model the Astra OPC for this to end. (this back and forth between us that is)

I have perfectly understood what you said. Really entertaining, you are telling me I´m cherry picking the facts I use and to stay on point yet you jump from Regal to Verano and back....

You brought it up more than one in passing or in detail, which led me to say what I said. If that wasn't your intention then move one.

Again, I didn´t talk SUV or Crossovers before, period.

Same could be asked of you, you seem to not do your research either as I've pointed out plenty of flaws with your argumentation. As for me saying their shouldn't be Opel, now your suffering from selective memory, I said plenty of times I would be fine with Opel, I see no reason really for the newer production line up due to so many cars being of same body and performance numbers.

I never said Spark was a re-badged Agila...though it does share the same platform as the Spark.

You didn´t point out any flaws except for if you did so to yourself.

Yet this "same body and performance" nonsense is what I have proved you wrong with, yet you just seem to ignore the fact and go on claiming there was such a thing.

On par usually is to say comparable, equal would be 1:1. For the most part the cars identical if it weren't for the power-train. GM isn't going to have a car with 325 and have a 340+ Cadillac that is nearly twice as much, if they did it would obviously hinder sales, it's all easier to just put an ecotec engine in every damn thing I guess. Even the OPC Astra has the Ecotec...

Or they could just put the Cadillac in rather than the Insignia OPC or the Buick GS, I mean this is really all subjective not sure why you act like me saying this would exclude them. (don't take the last part literally)



Just when I was gaining a liking to you, you go and say the piece of daft rubbish. I guess once again since I don't care to see new Opel cars and only old Opel cars I must dislike European cars that have or still have American counterparts [Sarcasm included]. Better yet I guess I hate all foreign cars since you thought I was a xenophobe based on no evidence other than me not liking your favorite brand [sarcasm still there].

Strange, I really thought on par ment equal http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+par
And one can be a xenophobe liking Australia but hating/fearing a certain country in Europe or all Europe or whatever, it seems like you thought xenophobia would be limited to "hate everything strange/foreign" wich it doesn´t.

Pontiac doesn't need to be in GT, the last GTO was just a de-tuned Holden, the original GTO and Trans-am I could see...but other than that Pontiac is gone and was garbage out the door.

Porsche will never happen enough said, I and others have covered this till we were blue in the face.

Kia...what would you have from them, I'd rather see their more recently successful South Korean counterpart.

I'd love Skoda and Seat purely due to WTCC, BTCC and WRC.

Saab...I rather see Opel any day of the year over Saab

Koenigsegg who wouldn't want more of them? Along with Gumpert, Nobel, Aston Martin, and tons others. However as you said this is about your beloved Opel cars.



Likewise



I showed you an article where certain Buick's were put together in Europe along side their Opel counterparts, the article said what you just echoed from it...

It is a re-badge, the Astra Sedan is the Verano, [I]you act as if GM is going to take every version of the Astra bring it to the U.S. market[/I], then make them all versions of the Verano. Why, yet again would they do this, and then lose sales in other cars of the same configuration? There is a reason Saturn and Pontiac don't exist anymore, and it because of a bloated car group that have multiples of the same function car across multiple brands, sold to the same demographics.



If you can show me where I said word for word they are all the same, that'd be nice. Too bad in the world of reality I didn't. So no I don't and if I did wouldn't I not want any Opel cars?

Also I already said when it came to Holden you were right. GM usually has a chevy or some other american (in the past Pontiac) make that is a Holden re-badge. I already agreed with you that currently Holden doesn't have any re-badge of Opel, though in the past they did.



I wasn't wrong, you misquoted me after I edited and fixed what I said to you Chevy = GM. Since I did say that I tend to refer to Chevy as GM since that is the flagship and main brand, but I didn't mean Chevy only. If you want to keep acting as if I didn't fix my mistake just so you can claim I'm full out wrong, your being myopic with the truth.

Also if you read again I already agreed with you about Holden this time and in the past, either read the full post or quit responding to me.



No, you just jumped to a conclusion because you wanted to gloat as if you had won. In reality OPC only would be better than what seems to be a dream wishlist (reason you started this thread). Rather than have the regular and OPC like you seem to suggest, and vintage the main performance cars would be all that matters. Does that mean I still want them? No. Can I understand that user only wanting to see those cars based on a racing "sim"? Yes.

Why would I say that? I don´t care what they bring on the US-market

You didn´t edit it yet it still says "chevy" not GM.

If all you disagree on so much was the way I listed all kinds of Opel, even the regular ones, why didn´t you just say so from the start?

I still wouldn´t mind any older regular cars, but not exactly the new line-up (except for the reasonbly priced car from TG maybe).

But that wasn´t what you have said, you said the Opel lineup, and that includes the opc models, weren´t necessary because GM has them all in some form. Obviously few people would demand a regular, say a Astra 1.6 GTC or something.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It doesn´t disregard that cars are being tested there, I told you already what the difference between other manufacturers setup changing buttons are.

Okay

I have perfectly understood what you said. Really entertaining, you are telling me I´m cherry picking the facts I use and to stay on point yet you jump from Regal to Verano and back....

Only jumped cause you couldn't stay on topic originally, don't be ignorant.

Again, I didn´t talk SUV or Crossovers before, period.

Since this is nearing the end I'm not going to go through several pages of text to show you, you did.

You didn´t point out any flaws except for if you did so to yourself.

You know it's funny I was able to say "yeah your right I was wrong about holden" but you don't have the ability to say when you weren't wrong. Do you need a hug?

Yet this "same body and performance" nonsense is what I have proved you wrong with, yet you just seem to ignore the fact and go on claiming there was such a thing.

How exactly?

Strange, I really thought on par ment equal http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+par
And one can be a xenophobe liking Australia but hating/fearing a certain country in Europe or all Europe or whatever, it seems like you thought xenophobia would be limited to "hate everything strange/foreign" wich it doesn´t.

I didn't want to say it at first, but you finally did it for me. So since I want an American group and an Aussie group, that without a doubt proves I'm a xenophobe toward Germany? Are you a complete moron (for lack of a better term)? I haven't shown anything that would give the idea of me being one, I only asked because you opened that door which lead me to figure out that you think such. I'm not Australia-American or some racist nationalist, for you to keep up with this asinine rhetoric is demeaning and undermines any intellectual credibility you had here. You are making an outrageous claim and thus you must provide sufficient evidence to prove I'm in fact a xenophobe. However, I'm not one and to say such without any premise other than I dislike your beloved car brand is the worst reason to claim someone a xenophobe.

Why would I say that? I don´t care what they bring on the US-market

You didn´t edit it yet it still says "chevy" not GM.

If all you disagree on so much was the way I listed all kinds of Opel, even the regular ones, why didn´t you just say so from the start?

I still wouldn´t mind any older regular cars, but not exactly the new line-up (except for the reasonbly priced car from TG maybe).

But that wasn´t what you have said, you said the Opel lineup, and that includes the opc models, weren´t necessary because GM has them all in some form. Obviously few people would demand a regular, say a Astra 1.6 GTC or something.

If I knew that you would have wanted some quick descriptive BS I would have done so with my original comment. It was just a quick comment saying I really don't see the reason for them to be in the game, and I still don't. However, you wanted to challenge me and sadly I'm one of several members that doesn't stray from an argument.

 

[Flaco13]

Okay



Only jumped cause you couldn't stay on topic originally, don't be ignorant.

Yeah, right... Might want to re-read the discussion.

Since this is nearing the end I'm not going to go through several pages of text to show you, you did.

Oh yeah, I did. On a side note, so far from importance I already forgot it.

(edit: sorry there is the Captiva/Antara SUV´s)

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8691513#post8691513
Still, how did I mention it throughout "the entire conversation"?

You know it's funny I was able to say "yeah your right I was wrong about holden" but you don't have the ability to say when you weren't wrong. Do you need a hug?

No thanks I´m good.

How exactly?

By telling you about the opc wich has no comparable GM performance wise. Same body (rebadge) yes. Same performance, nope!

I didn't want to say it at first, but you finally did it for me. So since I want an American group and an Aussie group, that without a doubt proves I'm a xenophobe toward Germany? Are you a complete moron (for lack of a better term)? I haven't shown anything that would give the idea of me being one, I only asked because you opened that door which lead me to figure out that you think such. I'm not Australia-American or some racist nationalist, for you to keep up with this asinine rhetoric is demeaning and undermines any intellectual credibility you had here. You are making an outrageous claim and thus you must provide sufficient evidence to prove I'm in fact a xenophobe. However, I'm not one and to say such without any premise other than I dislike your beloved car brand is the worst reason to claim someone a xenophobe.

You finally heard what you wanted to hear then?

If I knew that you would have wanted some quick descriptive BS I would have done so with my original comment. It was just a quick comment saying I really don't see the reason for them to be in the game, and I still don't. However, you wanted to challenge me and sadly I'm one of several members that doesn't stray from an argument.

Good, I´m not such a person either.