should there be NOS on GT4

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be Nos on the next Gran Turismo

  • YES! SHOULD BE NOS SYSTEMS!!

    Votes: 149 29.3%
  • NO! THAT WOULD BE CRAP!

    Votes: 359 70.7%

  • Total voters
    508
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Lethalchem
I'm sure my 199 posts of comments are causing significant grief, where your 7,500 are providing a wealth of knowledge which will benifit the masses for eons.

I dont think you can quite equate your contribution to that of Famine's
If I comment as I read, then others may comment in the meantime between any future posts I may provide. If I continue to edit the same post over the course of 20 minutes or more, then those who read my origional are not likely to go back and reread it JUST IN CASE I might have added to it. You're just looking for something to complain about. I'm moving on to pertinant comments that have some value.

I would suggest that you listen to Famine's advice. When you are posting 1 minute apart from your previous post, the edit button is to be used. As this doesnt appear to be a thread that goes through 5 or 6 pages a day, I would advise more prudent use of the edit button.
 
Klostrophobic
What you feel doesn't matter. What I feel doesn't matter. Gran Turismo is apparently a realistic simulator. If you want a game that doesn't realistically simulate driving, maybe you should just stop playing Gran Turismo.

I've yet to see a single reasonable answer as to why it shouldn't be in GT4. I've only seen a couple hundred half-witted responses as to why it shouldn't be.
I didn't say I didn't want a realistic driving sim. I will never stop playing Gran Turismo. I'm just saying the game has done great without it.
 
I don't recall saying N20 should be used on a road course. It's just as illegal on circuits here in the US as it is anywhere else, as far as I know. My statements were restricted to drag racing only, where it IS legal, and it is used regularly.

As for the use of it: A dry kit uses a nozzle drilled into the air intake (usually just in front of the MAF/MAS so the computer will adjust it's parameters (fuel) based on the "new" atmosphere it is reading from the N20. This is the easiest and cheapest way to install a kit. The size of the N20 injector (pill) controls how much N20 you will be spraying. Larger diameter nozzles give larger HP gains, but it generally is not recommended to use a dry kit for larger shots than 150hp.

A wet kit uses a "Y" nozzle (for fuel injected cars) where fuel is sprayed in one side (either the right or left side of the "Y") and the N20 is sprayed into the other side so the fuel and gas (N20 is liquid until it comes into contact with air, at which time it becomes gas) is mixed before being directly shot into the cylinders. Carb applications are done with plates. Wet kits are safer setups, and are more reliable, but are also more expensive. You can spray MUCH more through a wet kit .

The simplest, cheapest way of using N20 is by turning on the bottle (can purchase a remote opener), "arming" the system with a toggle switch (to prevent the system from engaging if you forget to turn off the bottle and didn't mean to inject the engine while on the way to the grocery store), and then spraying the gas when a button is held down.

You do not have to have the throttle wide open (although you're a fool if you don't) to spray the engine. Basically, you should only spray above 3000rpm (and above) and at full throttle. You need to let off the button to clutch and shift, and only hit it again once the shift is made and you're at full throttle again.

It's much safer to do it as other people have mentioned on here, which is by using a throttle position sensor. You would arm the system as noted before, but it will spray for you when it detects you are at full throttle. This allows you to skip the worry of pushing a button: If you miss a shift and hit the button (in anticipation of making a proper shift) you're going to be an unhappy camper.

There are also kits that can be used in stages. These are computer controlled to give you a soft shot when coming out of the hole on the launch, and then pouring a larger second shot on once you're above a certain rpm. It's adjustable to fit your needs.

N20 can be very safe and reliable, but the average kid who has it on his street car does not spend the money on the expensive kits which will monitor unsafe conditions and shut th ekit down before damage occurs.
 
Klostrophobic
What you feel doesn't matter. What I feel doesn't matter. Gran Turismo is apparently a realistic simulator. If you want a game that doesn't realistically simulate driving, maybe you should just stop playing Gran Turismo.

I've yet to see a single reasonable answer as to why it shouldn't be in GT4. I've only seen a couple hundred half-witted responses as to why it shouldn't be.
You want a good reason, because GT4 is realistic, it simulates driving in a rac e atmosphere and N20 in racing is very rare and 99% of the time it does feature it's in drag races, the other 1% is lower key series like the Palmers that use 3 shots of it per race, even then it's not a big boost. You never see it in GT racing or Saloon car racing or touring car racing ect. What better reason is there to NOT include it.
 
live4speed
You want a good reason, because GT4 is realistic, it simulates driving in a rac e atmosphere and N20 in racing is very rare and 99% of the time it does feature it's in drag races, the other 1% is lower key series like the Palmers that use 3 shots of it per race, even then it's not a big boost. You never see it in GT racing or Sallon car racing or touring car racing ect. What better reason is there to NOT include it.

Exactly, and how do we know it will make GT4 better? B/c a bunch of little ricer boys will buy it? Curcuit racing doesn't include, and the top dragsters of the NHRA...don't use it. Those big a** dragsters use all that HP to go 300MPH.
 
live4speed
You want a good reason, because GT4 is realistic, it simulates driving in a rac e atmosphere and N20 in racing is very rare and 99% of the time it does feature it's in drag races, the other 1% is lower key series like the Palmers that use 3 shots of it per race, even then it's not a big boost. You never see it in GT racing or Sallon car racing or touring car racing ect. What better reason is there to NOT include it.


Good point, NOS in roadracing and rally just is'nt right.
 
I'd better point it out before anyone else does, but it seems theres no such thing as SALLON CAR RACING...DOH. So I've replaced it with saloon car racing :p.
 
McLaren F1GTR
Exactly, and how do we know it will make GT4 better? B/c a bunch of little ricer boys will buy it?

They already do.

Question: Can "x" be used in real life to make a car perform better?

If the answer is yes, there is no reason it shouldn't be in GT4.

Besides, the mor epeople buy GT4, the more money Sony & PD will have to make GT5 and the PS3.


McLaren F1GTR
Curcuit racing doesn't include... it.

Yes it does. Example already (repeatedly) given.


I can see live4speed right now, speeding down to the hairdresser's...
 
Circuit racing in genera does not include N20, it's used in one or two series out of how many thousand? As such if it did feature in GT4 it should be limited to race series based on these that have it in real life and not allowed in any other series. I'd hate it if you were to fit N20 to a Denso Supra JGTC and enter a GT all stars with it.
 
Why don't we all just have "NOS" in all our cars and have crappy little P1 laptops that say "danger to manifold" on microsoft paint when we go too fast.

Now that would be realism...
 
live4speed
Circuit racing in genera does not include N20, it's used in one or two series out of how many thousand? As such if it did feature in GT4 it should be limited to race series based on these that have it in real life and not allowed in any other series. I'd hate it if you were to fit N20 to a Denso Supra JGTC and enter a GT all stars with it.

Or the Takata NSX.
The JGTC from what I hear hates the use of NOS. Alot of the officials find it as cheap ways of winning.
 
live4speed
Circuit racing in genera does not include N20, it's used in one or two series out of how many thousand? As such if it did feature in GT4 it should be limited to race series based on these that have it in real life and not allowed in any other series. I'd hate it if you were to fit N20 to a Denso Supra JGTC and enter a GT all stars with it.

As opposed to fitting a massive turbo to a 500hp JGTC car and making it a 1000hp one?

I wonder if the JGTC would think that's a "cheap" way of winning a race?
 
Famine
As opposed to fitting a massive turbo to a 500hp JGTC car and making it a 1000hp one?

I wonder if the JGTC would think that's a "cheap" way of winning a race?

Have you watched the JGTC? It's not circle work, hp isn't the deciding factor.
And the inherint LAG that comes with a turbo that would put up with 1000hp, they'd lose anyways.
 
Famine
As opposed to fitting a massive turbo to a 500hp JGTC car and making it a 1000hp one?

I wonder if the JGTC would think that's a "cheap" way of winning a race?
Well, the officials might.
 
Nope, because I think GT4 shoud feature stricter rules for the races to keep people from doing that. Besides there are road race series with 1000Bhp turbo cars, there arn't any road race series with 1000Bhp N20 injected cars.
 
live4speed
Nope, because I think GT4 shoud feature stricter rules for the races to keep people from doing that. Besides there are road race series with 1000Bhp turbo cars, there arn't any road race series with 1000Bhp N20 injected cars.

Why would the JGTC even need all that power? They already have 500HP cars.
Besides, have a N20 1000Bhp car just seems...well, strange.
 
RyosukeFCDS
Have you watched the JGTC? It's not circle work, hp isn't the deciding factor.
And the inherint LAG that comes with a turbo that would put up with 1000hp, they'd lose anyways.

I'm sorry, have you played GT3 at all?

Arguing that nitrous is "unrealistic" and wouldn't be allowed in certain series is rather pointless when you can, in GT3 already, take 500hp JGTC cars (that's the Denso Supra, Castrol Supra, ARTA NSX, Castrol Mugen NSX, Raybrig NSX, Pennzoil Skyline, Loctite Zexel Skyline and Calsonic Skyline) and tune them up to 1000hp - and then take them back to race their normal 500hp buddies.

That doesn't happen in real life. Yet you accept it. Why is nitrous such a bete noire?
 
Famine
I'm sorry, have you played GT3 at all?

Arguing that nitrous is "unrealistic" and wouldn't be allowed in certain series is rather pointless when you can, in GT3 already, take 500hp JGTC cars (that's the Denso Supra, Castrol Supra, ARTA NSX, Castrol Mugen NSX, Raybrig NSX, Pennzoil Skyline, Loctite Zexel Skyline and Calsonic Skyline) and tune them up to 1000hp - and then take them back to race their normal 500hp buddies.

That doesn't happen in real life. Yet you accept it. Why is nitrous such a bete noire?

You know...I never thought of it that way. Tuning the JGTC cars to 1000Bhp and then beating them easily is very similiar to putting in NOS, then racing them.
SO I can see what you're saying. After hearing that, putting in NOS for only drag should be the same has only putting in a Turbo in only on Free run? Or never?
 
Famine
I'm sorry, have you played GT3 at all?

Arguing that nitrous is "unrealistic" and wouldn't be allowed in certain series is rather pointless when you can, in GT3 already, take 500hp JGTC cars (that's the Denso Supra, Castrol Supra, ARTA NSX, Castrol Mugen NSX, Raybrig NSX, Pennzoil Skyline, Loctite Zexel Skyline and Calsonic Skyline) and tune them up to 1000hp - and then take them back to race their normal 500hp buddies.

That doesn't happen in real life. Yet you accept it. Why is nitrous such a bete noire?


I thought you were suggesting that in a hypothetical situation, you would strap "big" turbos onto JGTC cars to give them 1000hp and run them around the track with the regular cars.
I wasn't even thinking of GT3.

BUT, yep it's stupid, alot of them only let you do a "stage 1" turbo upgrade though, they don't let you do it all.
But anyways, they should fix this and not allow it in GT4, thanks for pointing it out
 
I dunno, I quite like having a 1000 bhp super car that mashes the opponents :D

kev - sunday race day, my 1000 bhp skyline vs a mini, a kia, volkswagen polo, and a ford fiesta

I think it's pretty fair.
 
I will really want a big NOS bottle so that it dont run out half way in a race. That would really suck running out of NOS.
Why not add a turbo, that wont run out will it?
I think a bigger turbo or NA upgrade is better than a NOS system.
How would PD limit HP races (as per GT2) if you can use a NOS system...............
Will PD match your NOS system with the AI and when will the AI be programmed to use it.
What button do I press on my controller to activate, I dont think there are any spare?
NOS will be banned from track races.
It all depends on how much of a challange PD feel that the NFSU series is and will they add those features to combat that game or stay loyal to the feel of past GT games?
 
So Lethelchem - from what I got out of your explanation, you can essentially have nitrous oxide systems configured so they only activate at full throttle over a certain RPM base. Is it active the entire time you're at full throttle or would that indeed do damage to the engine? What I'm trying to establish is whether by fitting a nitrous oxide system like the one you described, you would have N20 going into your engine consistently, so everytime you went to full throttle between turns it would kick in, because if that's actually the case it's identical to a turbo in terms of power delivery, and thus predictable. That I could see way clear to adding. I'm guessing this is what all the people who've wanted "nitrous oxide done properly" want?
 
Eagle
So Lethelchem - from what I got out of your explanation, you can essentially have nitrous oxide systems configured so they only activate at full throttle over a certain RPM base. Is it active the entire time you're at full throttle or would that indeed do damage to the engine? What I'm trying to establish is whether by fitting a nitrous oxide system like the one you described, you would have N20 going into your engine consistently, so everytime you went to full throttle between turns it would kick in, because if that's actually the case it's identical to a turbo in terms of power delivery, and thus predictable. That I could see way clear to adding. I'm guessing this is what all the people who've wanted "nitrous oxide done properly" want?

If you chose to install the system that monitors throttle position, then yes. It is activated the entire time. It is computer controlled (and adjustable) to spray when all selected variables are met. For example, if you set the parameters for "full throttle, 3000rpm", then you will be spraying N20 into the engine so long as those conditions are met, or untill you empty the bottle :D. When you lift your foot to shift, the spray will stop until you go full throttle again.

If you flip the arming toggle off, you can go full throttle all day long (even if the bottle is still open) and never spray any nitrous into the engine. Bottle has to be on, switch has to be toggled to the "armed" position, and then some form of activation device (button or throttle sensor) must be engaged for it to work.

With computer controlled systems, many more variables are controlled than people may think. Fuel, timing, nitrous injection, A/F ratio monitoring (for shut down if unsafe conditions are detected, etc) can all be tuned to the driver's preference.

Now obviously the system described above is more expensive (but not as expensive as buying a new engine because you just blew yours for not taking precautions), so most kits you will see on the street will be dry kits with manually activated buttons ($400 is all you need for the base kit). Any of the kits can be safe, as long as you're not stupid about it.

A stock car isn't going to be able to handle a 500hp dual stage kit :dunce: . The Camaro SS loves N20, and responds very well to it, but it has limitations. My friends will not put anything larger than a 150 shot without putting in forged internals. A 4cyl, however, will only be able to handle about 50 (some say 75max, but I think that's pushing it) without beefing up the bottom end.

Damage occurs to the engine when the car is not tuned properly for N20, or a driver attempts to manually use the N20 when safe conditions are not present, or when someone simply gets greedy (more HP is simply a nozzle swap away). Nitrous is very controllable in terms of how much horsepower you want to add, and when/where you want it to be added. This is exemplified by the dual stage setups where you can control the amount of the first stage and second stage shots independently. You can adjust when each stage is engaged.

It's also important to note the surprising effects of N20 on cars that already have forced induction. Not only does N20 add HP, but it also has a cooling effect which makes turbos and superchargers more efficient. The heat produced by forced induction robs quite a bit of horsepower, and makes consistant lap times difficult.

For example, on my friend's naturally aspirated Mustang, he has a 150 shot on it. He origionally Dyno'd at 250RWHP. With the 150 shot, he pulled 358RWHP (remember these are numbers at the wheels, not flywheel). So he gained 108 on a 150 shot. I strapped a friend's kit on my supercharged cobra just for fun, but only chose a 30hp nozzle. Before the nitrous, I made 450RWHP and 470RWTQ. After a measly 30hp shot, my numbers jumped to 480RWHP and 567RWTQ..a gain of 30hp at the WHEELS, but a huge jump of 97lbs of torque. It was the improved effeciency of the supercharger that made the gains, not so much the N20 itself. Same holds true for my friend's Supra (turbo).

In my opinion though, the use of nitrous should be restricted to the drag strip. You will empty a bottle of N20 (usually comes in 10lb or 12lb sizes) LONG before the end of a road race. Also, bottle pressure and temperature must remain at optimum levels to receive maximum benifits, which might be hard in a long road race, I'm not sure. They make electric bottle warmers, but I'd be more concerned of it getting TOO hot, rather than not hot enough during a race.

Anyway, this got longer than I intended, but I hope it helps people who have never used N20 understand that there's much more to it than you see on TV, and that it is a viable (and sometimes elaborate) modification to add to a vehicle. As for it's use in GT4, it should duplicate real world applications, nothing more.
 
Lethalchem
If you chose to install the system that monitors throttle position, then yes. It is activated the entire time. It is computer controlled (and adjustable) to spray when all selected variables are met. For example, if you set the parameters for "full throttle, 3000rpm", then you will be spraying N20 into the engine so long as those conditions are met, or untill you empty the bottle :D. When you lift your foot to shift, the spray will stop until you go full throttle again.

If you flip the arming toggle off, you can go full throttle all day long (even if the bottle is still open) and never spray any nitrous into the engine. Bottle has to be on, switch has to be toggled to the "armed" position, and then some form of activation device (button or throttle sensor) must be engaged for it to work.

With computer controlled systems, many more variables are controlled than people may think. Fuel, timing, nitrous injection, A/F ratio monitoring (for shut down if unsafe conditions are detected, etc) can all be tuned to the driver's preference.

Now obviously the system described above is more expensive (but not as expensive as buying a new engine because you just blew yours for not taking precautions), so most kits you will see on the street will be dry kits with manually activated buttons ($400 is all you need for the base kit). Any of the kits can be safe, as long as you're not stupid about it.

A stock car isn't going to be able to handle a 500hp dual stage kit :dunce: . The Camaro SS loves N20, and responds very well to it, but it has limitations. My friends will not put anything larger than a 150 shot without putting in forged internals. A 4cyl, however, will only be able to handle about 50 (some say 75max, but I think that's pushing it) without beefing up the bottom end.

Damage occurs to the engine when the car is not tuned properly for N20, or a driver attempts to manually use the N20 when safe conditions are not present, or when someone simply gets greedy (more HP is simply a nozzle swap away). Nitrous is very controllable in terms of how much horsepower you want to add, and when/where you want it to be added. This is exemplified by the dual stage setups where you can control the amount of the first stage and second stage shots independently. You can adjust when each stage is engaged.

It's also important to note the surprising effects of N20 on cars that already have forced induction. Not only does N20 add HP, but it also has a cooling effect which makes turbos and superchargers more effeciant. The heat produced by forced induction robs quite a bit of horsepower, and makes consistant lap times difficult.

For example, on my friend's naturally aspirated Mustang, he has a 150 shot on it. He origionally Dyno'd at 250RWHP. With the 150 shot, he pulled 358RWHP (remember these are numbers at the wheels, not flywheel). So he gained 108 on a 150 shot. I strapped a friend's kit on my supercharged cobra just for fun, but only chose a 30hp nozzle. Before the nitrous, I made 450RWHP and 470RWTQ. After a measly 30hp shot, my numbers jumped to 480RWHP and 567RWTQ..a gain of 30hp at the WHEELS, but a huge jump of 97lbs of torque. It was the improved effeciency of the supercharger thad made the gains, not so much the N20 itself. Same holds true for my friend's Supra (turbo).

In my opinion though, the use of nitrous should be restricted to the drag strip. You will empty a bottle of N20 (usually comes in 10lb or 12lb sizes) LONG before the end of a road race. Also, bottle pressure and temperature must remain at optimum levels to receive maximum benifits, which might be hard in a long road race, I'm not sure. They make electric bottle warmers, but I'd be more concerned of it getting TOO hot, rather than not hot enough during a race.

Anyway, this got longer than I intended, but I hope it helps people who have never used N20 understand that there's much more to it than you see on TV, and that it is a viable (and sometimes elaborate) modification to add to a vehicle. As for it's use in GT4, it should duplicate real world applications, nothing more.

Wow. You got a big point there at the end. But unfornately, the only time I have seen N20 is on my Street Racing Videos I buy from Best Buy. SO I can't say I have seen N20 used. I ahve seen bottles of it on TV, but never of it being used.
 
McLaren F1GTR
Wow. You got a big point there at the end. But unfornately, the only time I have seen N20 is on my Street Racing Videos I buy from Best Buy. SO I can't say I have seen N20 used. I ahve seen bottles of it on TV, but never of it being used.

I've got a video that is a PERFECT example of how it can make a difference, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to post it here due to the fact it's a street race.
 
I just had a break through. 💡 What if we had one of those kits on cars where it sprays air up making it look like you are priming your N2O. GT purists would be happy knowing this does absolutely nothing, the NFSU crowd gets the impression that GT is a tuning game which just happens to have a **** load of race and rally cars. PD sells loads of the game (which it will anyways but it would sell more) and they have more money to make GT5 great. Everyone wins! :)


Wait, that just sounded dumb, scratch that idea.
 
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