ABS more difficult to disable but some are done by just pulling a fuse.
I have an Audi 80 `92 (2.3l 5 cylinder
ABS more difficult to disable but some are done by just pulling a fuse.
Yesterday I was playing around with some cars, and I noticed that low speed tire physics probably need some serious improvement. It's currently impossible to start a car slowly without making the tires slip a bit. This is so noticeable that it's possible to hear a slipping sound. Also, on slopes, the car always drifts (in varying amounts) a bit to the lower side of the road when starting, no matter how slowly. It's as if tires weren't grippy enough at very low speeds.
Has anybody else tried this?
This is probably one of the reasons why rolling over is so difficult even with tall cars.
When the car travels completely sideways, vehicle speed in the game is zero.
It looks like tire grip is proportional to game vehicle speed in some way.
No GT5 hasn't got the perfect driving model. You only need to manoeuvre at low-speeds to see the car drift sideways across the track. (BTW. Very low speed handling is actually a very good indication of how realistic the physics will be in a game.)
If I'm understanding you right, you're talking about a car's tendency to "swing" like a pendulum, centered on its direction of travel? I noticed this too. I guess GT4 was too understeery to display the effect, but Tourist Trophy actually did the same thing (a lot), for example if you slipped one of your wheels into the grass. It was quite laughable for a bike game.Only once so far have I had the opinion that the physics of a car bordered "unrealistic", that being the oscillating snap hook tendencies of the Lambo in the Tuscana special race.
For once, I believe this is true. I've never accepted the argument that a wheel is "necessary" to enjoy a sim (partly from my experiences with Live for Speed on a gamepad), but in GT5 I noticed the steering is just too sluggish on a DS3/Sixaxis for high-risk oversteer maneuvers. The in-game driver can't react fast enough, which leads to some unnecessary snap-overcorrection. In GT4 the hypersensitive snap-overcorrection was a fault even with the wheel (I tried it), but this time I have to admit it feels more like a controller issue.This game could be more tailored to wheel players, most of them seem to like the physics.
This relates to one question I have -- if GT5 is such a great sim, why is it faster to use the handbrake in pretty much every car to get the nose to tuck in?This car pushed so bad at even that low cornering speed you had to turn it into the corner while breaking to get back on the throttle. I don't know about that one.
I noticed this while playing with handbrake skids. The results looked like hovercraft maneuvers, the car slipping and rotating around at impossibly slow speeds (with absolutely no "snap" to it or wobble of the suspension). Overall, the lack of "bite" in the tire model meant I got very little feedback from the wheels in my experience with the game.Yesterday I was playing around with some cars, and I noticed that low speed tire physics probably need some serious improvement. It's currently impossible to start a car slowly without making the tires slip a bit. This is so noticeable that it's possible to hear a slipping sound. Also, on slopes, the car always drifts (in varying amounts) a bit to the lower side of the road when starting, no matter how slowly. It's as if tires weren't grippy enough at very low speeds.
Those lock limits (ubiquitous in console racing games, and not an obstacle to good physics) don't preclude understeer, and don't affect overall grip availability. The input smoothing doesn't even seem to affect the animation of the front wheels (which, based on replays, seem to twitch back and forth with every flick the joystick), which leads me to wonder how the game calculates the physics of steering in the first place!Firstly there is the speed sensitive steering lock limits. If GT5 didn't have this, it would like the Time Trial, twitchy. Then input smoothing obviously.
So I noticed. I don't buy that you can hold "greater" slip angles, because that would require the physics to actually change based on the controller you use (not only unlikely, but counterproductive to Kazunori's insistence that the clutch + H-shifter be gimped to level the playing field with controller users), but it certainly makes things dead simple -- aside from overcorrection.With a pad, you can also hold greater slip angles, it's like the game automaticly dials in the exact amount of countersteer for pad uses if you just shove it full left/right, since the steering lock limits are controlled by the game.
Drifting with a pad in GT5 is too damn easy!!!
It took some modifications (no suspension adjustment needed), but I got most of the weight transfer effects I was looking for under braking, including the tail-out trail braking you mention. Yet lift-off oversteer was still broken.And turn ABS off, there is definitely some active stability help when ABS is on.
Once you turn it off, and set the proper brake bias, you'll notice the rear end of the car moving around alot more, even if you don't lock the brakes - greater weight transfer effects. Trail braking into corners will cause the car slide around
Yesterday I was playing around with some cars, and I noticed that low speed tire physics probably need some serious improvement. It's currently impossible to start a car slowly without making the tires slip a bit. This is so noticeable that it's possible to hear a slipping sound. Also, on slopes, the car always drifts (in varying amounts) a bit to the lower side of the road when starting, no matter how slowly. It's as if tires weren't grippy enough at very low speeds.
Has anybody else tried this?
This is probably one of the reasons why rolling over is so difficult even with tall cars.
When the car travels completely sideways, vehicle speed in the game is zero.
It looks like tire grip is proportional to game vehicle speed in some way.
Well with my Mclaren F1 I'm trying to be really smooth, and yet the thing will go into a spin or out of control really easily on Hard sports tyres, using a DFGT, if I so much as twitch the wheel a bit to quicklyBut why can't I send a car into a spin from throwing it too hard and giving it too much rotational inertia to catch? Even full-lock countersteer can't save everything, and full-lock means the controller shouldn't matter.
If you use the roof cam with a car with a quiet exhaust it will be clear that at low speed, tire grip seems to be not enough, as the usual but light tire skidding sound will be able to be heard.I have no problems launching my RUF BTR from a dead stop slowly with no tyre slip. I can post a video
If you use the roof cam with a car with a quiet exhaust it will be clear that at low speed, tire grip seems to be not enough, as the usual but light tire skidding sound will be able to be heard.
If you choose Special Stage Route 5 you will begin close to the long, slightly banked the corner leading to the main straight. You will be able to quickly test there both that and the "skidding/lateral drifting" occurring when starting from a dead stop on a slope very slowly.
If you use the roof cam with a car with a quiet exhaust it will be clear that at low speed, tire grip seems to be not enough, as the usual but light tire skidding sound will be able to be heard.
If you choose Special Stage Route 5 you will begin close to the long, slightly banked corner leading to the main straight. You will be able to quickly test there both that and the "skidding/lateral drifting" occurring when starting from a dead stop on a slope very slowly.
I sent a message regarding exactly that to Yamauchi via Twitter a few hours ago. I wonder if he will answer. Maybe chances will rise if more people ask him the same thing, even something in basic english, like "Will driving physics be improved in future updates?".Is there a possibility they will improve physics through patches like for the Prologue? Don't get me wrong, i think they are great, in perfect conditions (good combination of car/track, abs off) it feels really good, not worse not better then what i'm used to from LFS..
If you switch to the chase camera, you will also see visually that the car behaves weirdly.
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I feel it's all "connected".
Strange low speed tire physics, extremely difficult rollovers, handbrake dynamics, little to no grip on steep slopes with skinny tires/old underpowered cars. It's probably all related to the low speed tire model. It looks as if grip has been intentionally limited when the relative speed between the road and rotating tires approaches zero, and this causes some "glitches" that most people wouldn't notice in most situations.
It would have been interesting to check if that E3 demo where the old Fiat 500 easily rolled over had the same low speed tire behavior.
I sent a message regarding exactly that to Yamauchi via Twitter a few hours ago. I wonder if he will answer. Maybe chances will rise if more people ask him the same thing, even something in basic english, like "Will driving physics be improved in future updates?".
Playing the older demo of GT5 felt even more slick than it does now. I remeber just reversing and trying to get a Nascar going forward again took ages in the CES demo builds. And grass was extremely slippery on Nurbrurgring, felt like wet grass
If anything GT5 feels much more connected to the road than the Time Trial and the older demos.
For once, I believe this is true. I've never accepted the argument that a wheel is "necessary" to enjoy a sim (partly from my experiences with Live for Speed on a gamepad), but in GT5 I noticed the steering is just too sluggish on a DS3/Sixaxis for high-risk oversteer maneuvers. The in-game driver can't react fast enough, which leads to some unnecessary snap-overcorrection. In GT4 the hypersensitive snap-overcorrection was a fault even with the wheel (I tried it), but this time I have to admit it feels more like a controller issue.
Believe me, I've had a gaming wheel of some type or another since my parents bought me my first (a Thrustmaster with hand pedals, no floor unit) around 1997 or so. It was awesome for The Need for Speed and Interstate 76.G25 s better pedals + H-pattern + proper race seat was just pure sim heaven, my cuz's G27 is even better! Raced LFS religiously for around 14 months..........which brings me to your quote enjoying LFS with controller????seriously???? True physics of a car game can only be enjoyed with a proper wheel setup....fullstop!
So I'm not the only one! It felt positively superheroic when I did it the first time, but not at all believable. Not that hard to recreate, either. I ran into it at the left-hand kink following the uphill coming out of Fuchsröhre, before Adenauer-Forst.Re AMG school physics experiance, I too had the pleasure of arriving way too fast at the right hander before you accelerate up to the Karrasell, and throwing the 300 sl (no ABS all aids off) into a slide which at that speed should have sent me into the armco backwards at 100 kph....but as you described (all controls off) the car caught itself and carried on as if i had just fluked the biggest save of the year! 👎
P.s wasnt the 300 sl supposed to be a bit more difficult to drive (in real life reports) ???? swing axle rear end ????
As far as lift off oversteer goes, it's definitely in the game, but more obvious in some cars.
With a wheel, I tried a RUF BTR, stock on medium sports tyres on a custom track.
Constant throttle on a sweeper, let go of throttle aburptly, car goes into a spin...
Being an RR you sorta expect that
Turn and brake hard and it also spins, more so with ABS off
I'll post some vids later
sorry if i sound like a fanboy....but LFS got the physics near perfect:tup: Is it so hard to get geometry based suspension modelling implemented on a console ? Even a generic multilink rear with a Mcpherson strut front for eg (just input know manufacture settings/details) can be made to feel right and behave a certain way......love the way you can get a FR car to roll into its outside rear tire and drive it fast with a hint of 4 wheel drift in LFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I wondered about the 300SL's suspension too. I guess I decided geometry-based suspension modelling (like LFS) was too much to expect from a console sim, much less one with "1000" cars, but you'd think they would have at least cranked up the "oversteer" a couple notches on that car.