Sonic The Hedgehog - General Discussion

[TS050]

Still haven’t finished the game - Episode Shadow still hasn’t made its way onto the EU PlayStation Store for whatever reason, so I haven’t even able to see the FULL story as of yet. If we get to the 10th and it still hasn’t released, I’ll play through the rest of the game and see what Episode Shadow has to offer later on.

I do have an idea of what the rest of the story had to offer, though.

Also, SPOILERS BELOW.









—

Anyway. If there was a phrase to directly show what the game is, it’d be “missed opportunity”.

It has the normal Sonic tropes; the game looks amazing and the music is kickass.

And yet, it manages to do a lot of things quite badly.

Levels are painfully short throughout the whole game. As in, you’ll start playing it, and radio will say something about someone being sighted, and just like that, you’re done. After around a minute and a half. I miss the days of us having somewhat long levels.

Some of the levels are ridiculously linear. Aqua Road seemed like a great level, until I realised it was just two water slides that lead to the end of the stage. Luminous Forest is the epitome of ‘boost-to-win’, with the first 20 seconds and last 30 seconds of the Level solely featuring Modern Sonic boosting in straight lines, or down a half pipe.

The pacing is all over the place, and the story is ridiculous. Around 15 or so stages into the game, you’ve taken about 26% of the world back from Eggmans control. Yet, 5 stages later, you’ve taken over 50% of the world. The way how you jump around from environment to environment seems a little clunky too. One stage, you’ll be in Green Hill, then you’re in the city, then you’ll be in the Death Egg. Truthfully, I’ve forgotten a lot of the story, and I think a lot of it is due to how forgettable it is. Sonic Team had a brilliant idea. Sonic lost, and Eggman has managed to take over the world, and somehow, they managed to mess that up. Also, whose idea was it to hardly speak of Infinite’s backstory in the main game (or even Episode Shadow, which was supposed to reveal EVERYTHING about his past), but instead relegate it to comics tied into the plot?

The main 6 villains were mismanaged massively. Back in June, people were stupidly hyped to see Shadow back on Eggmans side, Metal Sonic back AND Chaos back from Sonic Adventure (I purposely ignored SLW and Zavok, people weren’t hyped about that) . This brought the main villain count up to 6, with the 4 people mentioned prior, Infinite, and Eggman. In the story, you fight 4 of the 6. Chaos is relegated to a cutscene near the beginning of the game and isnt seen much more after that, and Shadow is taken care of by...Shadow during mid-game. Nostalgia pandering to a new level. Why even bring them back if you’ll just get rid of them straight away? Zavok had a boss fight, which while having great music, is somewhat underwhelming. Metal Sonic has the classic boost formula boss fight, which consists of Sonic running down an endless road.Infinite appears to have 3 boss fights, they aren’t that bad apart from the third one, which is a DIRECT rehash of Metal Sonics boss.


The voice acting, while massively improved from previous games (Shadow’s VA has much better lines than the infamous “YOU GOT THIS SANIC” in Sonic Generations), is still a little annoying. We know that Sonic is cocky, but sometimes it feels like he talks too much about one thing, and it can get a little grating.

The physics have gone backwards. Despite being fun to play, everyone seems clunky. Quick stepping at any time during the half pipe section of Luminous Forest as Modern Sonic will make you boost right off said half pipe, and into a bottomless pit. Classic Sonic loses all momentum whenever hitting an enemy, and the speed cap on his running speed is nasty. Normally, I wouldn’t mind Classic’s physics, considering that the Generations style of Classic physics weren’t the worst thing in the world, but after Mania, it feels really weird, bordering on feeling bad. Avatar just feels...weird. Their rate of acceleration is one of the weirdest things to me, and it’s like they accelerate in stages, then all of a sudden, boost off at near-Sonic pace.

There is no challenge. Sonic games aren’t the hardest things in the world, but this game is a little ridiculous. I’m currently 22 stages into the game, and I pretty much S Ranked every stage on my first attempt. This includes deaths; IIRC, just one death in a level in Sonic Generations would stop you from receiving a S Rank. It’s nothing like Unleashed, which honestly tested you when it came to late game Sonic stages (excluding the hellhole that is HD Eggmanland). Even Colours and Generations got much more difficult near the end of the game. When a mid game stage feels easier than a stage set in the first 25 minutes of gameplay, it’s not a good sign.

I don’t see how this game warranted a 4 year development time. I understand that creating the Hedgehog Engine 2 might have taken an extended amount of time, but even then, 2 years is still good time to develop a game...yet the stages, while there are a lot of them, don’t last longer than 2 minutes in most situations. Unleashed took 2 years to develop, which included the development of the OG Hedgehog Engine. That includes developing for the PS3’s janky processor. Tell me, how on earth did Unleashed have such nice, long stages, while having around the same dev time as Forces?

Why did Sonic Team decide to have new level designers working on their anniversary game? If they brought back the guys from Generations, or even Unleashed, there wouldn’t be as much complaints about level design. Modern Seaside Hill is how you design levels for boost formula Sonic. Straight line, boost to win situations aren’t.

Why does the story feel so unfinished? Why does it feel like content is being held back? Did the developers run out of time?


It all feels so...sad. The Mario series come through with consistently good games. Hell, Odyssey is potentially one of the best games of all time. Forces really could’ve been one of the best 3D Sonic games, but it feels like too many corners were cut in development. We literally got one of the best reviewed Sonic games in YEARS earlier this year. We could’ve got a double whammy, but we got disappointment instead. It’s a little crazy how some of Sonic’s biggest fans, turned ROM hackers, turned full game developers ended up making a better game overall than Sonic Team. In turn, that led to the reception Forces is getting now. In the end, I feel sorry for Aaron Webber. He advertised the game like crazy, and for it to be so mediocre is painful.


Overall? I’m probably being a little generous, but it’s a 6/10 for me. A fun game, let down in too many aspects to even be close to being one of the best 3D Sonic games.


SEGA, at this point, it’s time to restructure Sonic Team. I’m not sure they know what they’re doing. Iizuka...you’ve been a part of some of Sonics greatest games, but now, I think it’s time you stepped down and let someone else take over.

 

[Com Fox]

That contradicts the info from comics, read below.
(also note how the Phantom Ruby from final battle didn't need any power source)

That was explained in the cutscene that the machine was able to power the Phantom Ruby on its own.

Except he isn't.
The last issue was a complete mess, to be honest:
- Eggman needs a new plan to take over the world? Cue Deus Ex Machina-grade power gem appearing right at his door out of nowhere.

I assumed there was some communication era with the writers and is why I think relying on info in the comics doesn't work. In the comics Eggman finds it but in the game he invented it with several prototypes lying around. Yeah, I don't get it either, I'm assuming Eggman found it and was constructing a way to perfect it Time Eater style but yeah that has its own problems.

- Soon-to-be-Infinite's motivation to join Eggman? He's tired of the world as it is. He gives little concern about consequences of a partnership with Eggman (read: a person you absolutely cannot trust) and what can come out of it. Also, a person who's driven by hunger of power willingly becomes a henchman? Unless Eggman and Infinite had plans to get rid of each other once their goals are accomplished, I find this barely believable.

With Infinite's insecurities, it kinda felt like he needed Eggman to get his desires (which is why he didn't betray him) especially since he almost lost once the Phantom Ruby kicked in.

- Do we ever see the rest of Jackal Squad again? No. The game only briefly mentions them in Episode Shadow, and by how that mention goes, those who didn't read the comic most likely will assume that it's a bunch of Eggman's robots under (soon-to-be-)Infinite's command, like I did.

That's why I said this storytelling practice they've been doing is stupid. I don't disagree with you on this at all.

Sure, but the way it was shown in the game was more hilarious than said. I'm pretty sure that "I'M NOT WEAK" line is going to be Infinite's own "IT'S NO USE" in the interwebs.

It already has

I'll agree there is a better way to do this as it only looks impactful if you don't take it for face value which is kind of a bad thing if you're telling a story to have the face value be bad.

There were reasons for it that have nothing to do with nostalgia tampering. Being Nintendo-exclusive Super Mario Galaxy ripoff, Pontack's horrible storytelling and introduction of absurdly cliche villains are among these reasons. And you're lucky if you haven't touched 3DS version of this game.

True but the thing is, would you really go for a second attempt if the first didn't go so well regardless of why, if people found out the next sonic game played similar to Lost World or at least went in that direction it would lose a lot of interest quick.

Actually I found the 3DS version vastly superior, Dimps tried to make Lost World feel like Sonic while struggling with the confusing themes of Lost World. Sonics Speed was much more consistent (compared to Wii U having the left-right movement be slower than the forward). Wisps were more than just minigames and has old Sonic elements like the elemental shield. The only problem with the game were Frozen Factory Zone 3, Gyro Controls and the final world being a boss rush. Although the bosses in the 3DS version were MUCH better than what they were in the Wii U version.

And that's why Sonic will not be perceived as anything but a bad meme if that's gonna keep going. A franchise that's aware of how bad it is and constantly makes fun of it doesn't become good or otherwise likeable (unless you're in for low quality memes). It becomes a bad franchise that makes fun of itself. A truly pathetic show to witness.

I don't think it instantly means bad, the Sonic Boom show has shown that it can be done right. It just has to be a casual setting and stick with its own fanbase and not pander to others, also remember the shirt is optional, it is not apart of a mandatory quest.

Levels are painfully short throughout the whole game. As in, you’ll start playing it, and radio will say something about someone being sighted, and just like that, you’re done. After around a minute and a half. I miss the days of us having somewhat long levels.

This just might be the inner Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations 3DS talking but I much rather short stages. Stages shouldn't be Nightime Unleashed or non-Team Rose Heroes long, it turns general gameplay sessions into planned marathons. I just wish there was more of them to make up for it, I mean I like the special stages as they are homages to the Colours game style and mechanics (as in they are ripped straight from Sonic Colours) but they aren't exactly new or exciting.

Also a lot of level run time comes with the collectibles surprisingly, you have to do the same levels 3+ times to beat it completely, first a Red Ring run then a Ring Gate run and then a Silver Moon Ring run, it does feel very padded.

The pacing is all over the place, and the story is ridiculous. Around 15 or so stages into the game, you’ve taken about 26% of the world back from Eggmans control. Yet, 5 stages later, you’ve taken over 50% of the world. The way how you jump around from environment to environment seems a little clunky too.

Funny thing is that for some reason the game allows you to go over 100% while Eggman is still at 0.01% as the bonus stages contribute to the % apparently. I've apparently taken over 120% of the world now yet Eggman still has 0.01%!? This is all kinds of wrong

Also, whose idea was it to hardly speak of Infinite’s backstory in the main game (or even Episode Shadow, which was supposed to reveal EVERYTHING about his past), but instead relegate it to comics tied into the plot?

The same people who thought explaining how Eggman got the Zeti in the Lost World would be better in comic and not in the main plot probably.

There is no challenge. Sonic games aren’t the hardest things in the world, but this game is a little ridiculous. I’m currently 22 stages into the game, and I pretty much S Ranked every stage on my first attempt. This includes deaths; IIRC, just one death in a level in Sonic Generations would stop you from receiving a S Rank. It’s nothing like Unleashed, which honestly tested you when it came to late game Sonic stages (excluding the hellhole that is HD Eggmanland). Even Colours and Generations got much more difficult near the end of the game. When a mid game stage feels easier than a stage set in the first 25 minutes of gameplay, it’s not a good sign.

Now this I agree with, KIND OF. I do agree the game is way easier the S rank than before, I've currently S ranked all the stages I've done but I will still say its better than in PS3 and 360 Generations, you just had to A rank without dying. The 3DS version actually required mastery of their stages to get an S rank like in the older titles (you had to pull some stuff crazy strats to get high ranks in the later stages)

Now the only 2 stages I had trouble with was Imperial Tower and the last Classic Sonic stage but that was more due to bad design of those levels than the stage being actually challenging.

The main 6 villains were mismanaged massively. Back in June, people were stupidly hyped to see Shadow back on Eggmans side, Metal Sonic back AND Chaos back from Sonic Adventure (I purposely ignored SLW and Zavok, people weren’t hyped about that) . This brought the main villain count up to 6, with the 4 people mentioned prior, Infinite, and Eggman. In the story, you fight 4 of the 6. Chaos is relegated to a cutscene near the beginning of the game and isnt seen much more after that, and Shadow is taken care of by...Shadow during mid-game. Nostalgia pandering to a new level. Why even bring them back if you’ll just get rid of them straight away? Zavok had a boss fight, which while having great music, is somewhat underwhelming. Metal Sonic has the classic boost formula boss fight, which consists of Sonic running down an endless road.Infinite appears to have 3 boss fights, they aren’t that bad apart from the third one, which is a DIRECT rehash of Metal Sonics boss.

Funny thing was that Zavok was the only original boss in the entire game, every other boss felt very familiar to others

Quick stepping at any time during the half pipe section of Luminous Forest as Modern Sonic will make you boost right off said half pipe, and into a bottomless pit.

You're not actually meant to be doing that, you're supposed to be steering along the half pipe. Sadly the game doesn't you many signs on that and I feel for this trap.

Being on the Switch actually probably gave me a higher review than normal as I can just pick it up and play wherever I want so I don't have to bother getting up a set up to play and I did enjoy a few more aspects. I'd give it a 7.5/10, it might be seen as a guilty pleasure of mine for the future though.

 

[SiriusR]

True but the thing is, would you really go for a second attempt if the first didn't go so well regardless of why

A small reminder that one thing Sega is absolutely bad at is analyzing their mistakes. Aftermath of Sonic '06 release is a prime example.

I don't think it instantly means bad

Sure, it doesn't, when whoever spawns memes has the sense of norm and knows when to stop. Neither Webber nor whoever is above him seem to have this quality. They'll keep spewing memes left and right, no matter how overused and gross these are, just because "being self-aware, fam".
I apologize in advance if anyone's gonna find this analogy insulting, but anyway: imagine a guy. He has Asperger's syndrome. And this guy, instead of trying to adapt to society and act like a normal human being, constantly throws gross shenanigans and does other acts of asocial/antisocial behavior, reasoning his actions with "well, I do it because I have Aspergers". Sonic franchise at its current state is this guy.

the Sonic Boom show has shown that it can be done right

No. On the contrary, Sonic Boom is a fine example of how to not ascend memes. Not to mention that the show is terrible by itself.

also remember the shirt is optional, it is not apart of a mandatory quest.

Remember in what kind of game it appears.

upd:

That was explained in the cutscene that the machine was able to power the Phantom Ruby on its own.

Considering the size of that machine, I'd like to see the power source for the Phantom Ruby in it. The only fittingly compact solution that comes to my mind is Chaos Emeralds.

 

[Com Fox]

A small reminder that one thing Sega is absolutely bad at is analyzing their mistakes. Aftermath of Sonic '06 release is a prime example.

Well 06 wasn't trying anything new, it was basically trying to rip off the adventure formula. 06 pretty much killed the formula ever returning because of this philosophy.

I apologize in advance if anyone's gonna find this analogy insulting, but anyway: imagine a guy. He has Asperger's syndrome. And this guy, instead of trying to adapt to society and act like a normal human being, constantly throws gross shenanigans and does other acts of asocial/antisocial behavior, reasoning his actions with "well, I do it because I have Aspergers". Sonic franchise at its current state is this guy.

As someone with Autism I find this analogy very interesting especially since I try to avoid using my disorder as a crutch but I can't agree with this. It's not like Sonic is being bad on purpose and saying "I'm just a meme" at all. It's more of an attempt to connect with the fanbase in a more humour environment via their products.

No. On the contrary, Sonic Boom is a fine example of how to not ascend memes. Not to mention that the show is terrible by itself.

We'll have to agree to diagree on this one, Sonic Boom has 2 camps of people who love the show because of it witty, self aware and embracive nature while other people hate it for the same reason. I think it's the best cartoon right now probably for the same reasons why you hate it. It's the magic of arguments, it can go both ways and Sonic is a massive example of this as it seems to apply to him more than others.

Remember in what kind of game it appears.

Doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

[Brend]

The pacing of the story is atrocious, really. The cutscene where Classic and Tails meet the avatar for the first time that leads to a horrendous jumpcut in the rebel base is hilariously amateur.

Who thought that kind of editing was acceptable?

 

[Com Fox]

I guess they realize having a silent protagonist be the only representative of one party in the cutscenes wasn't going to exchange much dialogue so they had to cut the corner.They could've brought Silver along, especially since he was there at the scene.

Also for some reason Tails can teleport from being terrified with the crew at the Sun to being with the Avatar in a jumpcut

 

[Wolfe]

It all feels so...sad. The Mario series come through with consistently good games. Hell, Odyssey is potentially one of the best games of all time. Forces really could’ve been one of the best 3D Sonic games, but it feels like too many corners were cut in development. We literally got one of the best reviewed Sonic games in YEARS earlier this year. We could’ve got a double whammy, but we got disappointment instead. It’s a little crazy how some of Sonic’s biggest fans, turned ROM hackers, turned full game developers ended up making a better game overall than Sonic Team...
...
SEGA, at this point, it’s time to restructure Sonic Team. I’m not sure they know what they’re doing. Iizuka...you’ve been a part of some of Sonics greatest games, but now, I think it’s time you stepped down and let someone else take over.

As soon as I saw actual gameplay video I lost all interest, and it turned out about like I expected. The Sonic cycle continues.

The sad thing is that I don't enjoy Sonic Mania as much as I had hoped, either. The physics, visuals, and music are on point, but the level design is too often a pain to navigate, especially if you want to explore instead of ricocheting through points of no return. Freedom Planet was better.

 

[SiriusR]

Well 06 wasn't trying anything new, it was basically trying to rip off the adventure formula.

You're saying it like that's something bad.

06 pretty much killed the formula ever returning because of this philosophy.

...what philosophy?
(also, Adventure formula has never been brought back specifically because of Sega's inability of analyzing its mistakes; Sonic '06 had many flaws, but Adventure formula wasn't among them (or was, for a minority - let's keep in mind that we're talking about Sonic fanbase))

It's not like Sonic is being bad on purpose and saying "I'm just a meme" at all.

It's not exactly being bad on direct purpose. More like it does gross things that make Sonic look bad.
As I said, using memes is fine, but abusing them isn't.

We'll have to agree to diagree on this one, Sonic Boom has 2 camps of people who love the show because of it witty, self aware and embracive nature while other people hate it for the same reason.

Even though I have to point out that I have more reasons to hate Boom (such as worst execution of the main cast of characters and Ken Pontack's involvement with obvious results), I'm fine with it, as I don't like forcing my opinion down others' throats, especially if they don't like it.

I think it's the best cartoon right now

I guess that if I told you that my favorite Sonic cartoon is SatAM, that would explain the most of the stance I've been expressing so far.

It's the magic of arguments, it can go both ways and Sonic is a massive example of this as it seems to apply to him more than others.

Oh, how do I hate being reminded of what a mess Sonic fanbase is. Getting it more or less wholeheartedly agree on something is nearly impossible. The Sega themselves is to be blamed though, as they produced many rather vastly different iterations of Sonic and his world.

The sad thing is that I don't enjoy Sonic Mania as much as I had hoped, either.

It could be worse. Personally, I outright hate Mania (and Tee Lopes in particular). Speak about Sonic fanbase doing what it does best - having clashing opinions.

 

[Brend]

I'd love a new Sonic Rush game to be honest. Just let dimps run riot and make a good switch exclusive that puts Blaze back into the spotlight.

 

[SiriusR]

dimps

Majority of the fanbase hates them for Sonic 4, so expecting Sega to give Dimps any kind of freedom is senseless.
But yeah, I'd love seeing Blaze again. Preferably playable.

 

[EngieDiesel]

I don’t see how this game warranted a 4 year development time. I understand that creating the Hedgehog Engine 2 might have taken an extended amount of time, but even then, 2 years is still good time to develop a game...yet the stages, while there are a lot of them, don’t last longer than 2 minutes in most situations. Unleashed took 2 years to develop, which included the development of the OG Hedgehog Engine. That includes developing for the PS3’s janky processor. Tell me, how on earth did Unleashed have such nice, long stages, while having around the same dev time as Forces?

Why did Sonic Team decide to have new level designers working on their anniversary game? If they brought back the guys from Generations, or even Unleashed, there wouldn’t be as much complaints about level design. Modern Seaside Hill is how you design levels for boost formula Sonic. Straight line, boost to win situations aren’t.

Why does the story feel so unfinished? Why does it feel like content is being held back? Did the developers run out of time?

Sonic games have had a long and infamous history of developer infighting, delays, and general mismanagement. The failed Saturn game Sonic X-treme is the most dramatic example of this. This is largely because Sega never set down any concrete rules about what a Sonic game is supposed to be and there's always been a mentality of "we are doing Sonic this specific way because I think it's the right way and I will not compromise, so THERE.", which leads to internal criticism of the direction the franchise is going, complaints from different departments that their ideas are being mangled because the gameplay mechanics have been changed up yet again, things start to fall behind as technical limitations make it clear that the original vision won't really work as they intended, and so on. Then eventually it comes down to "I guess it's good enough", and you get a very uneven experience that no one has learned from because they've already decided their idea will be better than that.

Mario games employ different game mechanics and gimmicks and such, but there's a very unified ruleset to Mario's abilities, the world he lives in, and how he can interact with it. With Sonic it's largely up to the whims of whoever's in charge, and often what they want doesn't match up with what's been done before so nobody can agree on whether they're doing it right or not.

 

[Com Fox]

You're saying it like that's something bad.

Well I'm not, I'm saying it's different to what happened with Lost World.

...what philosophy?
(also, Adventure formula has never been brought back specifically because of Sega's inability of analyzing its mistakes; Sonic '06 had many flaws, but Adventure formula wasn't among them (or was, for a minority - let's keep in mind that we're talking about Sonic fanbase))

If something they tried doesn't work, ditch everything related to it. We haven't seen a single game that resembles any part of 06 bar Crisis City in Generations.

It's not exactly being bad on direct purpose. More like it does gross things that make Sonic look bad.
As I said, using memes is fine, but abusing them isn't.

I don't agree that they are abusing them at all, also I never thought of a meme as gross.

Even though I have to point out that I have more reasons to hate Boom (such as worst execution of the main cast of characters and Ken Pontack's involvement with obvious results), I'm fine with it, as I don't like forcing my opinion down others' throats, especially if they don't like it.

Pontac had nothing to do with the TV Show, they only wrote for the 3DS titles (and to be fair they were alright in Fire & Ice). Also I think the execution is fine for what the Boom series is, if it was the main series then I would see a problem but Boom in unrelated to that.

Boom is more pandering than acting defeatist.

I guess that if I told you that my favorite Sonic cartoon is SatAM, that would explain the most of the stance I've been expressing so far.

Not really, I don't play the game of "you like this, that means ...." we are all individuals here.

Oh, how do I hate being reminded of what a mess Sonic fanbase is. Getting it more or less wholeheartedly agree on something is nearly impossible. The Sega themselves is to be blamed though, as they produced many rather vastly different iterations of Sonic and his world.

This I agree, Sonic has had a massive problem with identity of not knowing want to be.

It could be worse. Personally, I outright hate Mania (and Tee Lopes in particular). Speak about Sonic fanbase doing what it does best - having clashing opinions.

Hey, I agree on this too though I'm fine with clashing opinions, I mean we have the right to express our opinions and no one should be going around trying to stop opinions.

Majority of the fanbase hates them for Sonic 4, so expecting Sega to give Dimps any kind of freedom is senseless.
But yeah, I'd love seeing Blaze again. Preferably playable.

Personally I'd be fine giving them with them going at it again if told to make it similar to Rush, the 3DS Generations proved that the Rush gameplay can really work in a more 2.5D plain.

 

[Com Fox]

So I've given some levels a 100% completion to see how all these collectibles are and if it gives me anything.

Ring Gates were as redundant as they were in Lost World. Some were tricky with their number places but it isn't exactly a challenge. The biggest let down are the new Silver Moon Rings, there are 5 in a stage like Red Rings but the Silver Moon Rings have to be collected in an undisclosed time limit or they disappear and you have to start over. I thought it could've been a great idea to challenge a players skill and knowledge of the level but no, they are all next to each other. You just have to find the bunch and you easily beat the timer.

The Ring Gates and Silver Moon Rings don't even appear to do anything, Red Rings gave you Colours-style bonus stages but these 2 don't appear to get you anything cleared the Ring Gate challenge on 9 levels and the Silver Moon Ring challenge on 8 levels (can't seem to find a single one during the Metal Sonic boss fight stage) and I haven't gotten a single thing.

 

[TS050]

can't seem to find a single one during the Metal Sonic boss fight stage

Don’t fight the boss; just keep going along the level. They show up in the same place where the Red Rings and Number Rings do, you just have to go further down the endless road to find them.


It’s pretty dumb, I know.

 

[Com Fox]

Don’t fight the boss; just keep going along the level. They show up in the same place where the Red Rings and Number Rings do, you just have to go further down the endless road to find them.


It’s pretty dumb, I know.

Before you posted that, I just found it

I think it was kind of clever though still hated the Silver Moon Rings being bunched up together. I feel like it was a missed opportunity to put the Silver Moon Rings all over the stages and not only did you have to got and find them, you also had to collect them fast or you fail, granted there is no reward for doing this so I guess there is no point (unless we finally get the Super Sonic unlocking criteria in the future which requires this)

 

[SiriusR]

(unless we finally get the Super Sonic unlocking criteria in the future which requires this)

There are files in the game hinting at future Super Sonic DLC, so that's a possibility.

upd:

Considering the size of that machine, I'd like to see the power source for the Phantom Ruby in it. The only fittingly compact solution that comes to my mind is Chaos Emeralds.

So I've finally found said source of power...

...and, of course, it's Chaos Emeralds.

upd2:

 

[Brend]

Well, that's Sonic Forces completed on my end.

In conclusion, I'm just so disappointed because of the potential the game had. Ultimately, it felt rushed, unpolished and recycled in many ways.

I feel like Sonic Team need new talent or SEGA need to give the 3D reigns to another team..

 

[EngieDiesel]

I feel like Sonic Team need new talent or SEGA need to give the 3D reigns to another team..

Then you'll just get another disjointed mishmash of ideas that don't match up to the disjointed mishmash of ideas the fandom has about what a "real" Sonic game is. It's really a no-win situation by this point.

That said, even though the game seems like it's pretty much designed to be stretched out with DLC challenge packs and such, I'm actually glad it didn't try to drag itself out into a overly long epic, especially with the semi-serious tone the story takes. I'm perfectly fine with a modern Sonic game that doesn't make me commit to it and that I can just pick up and play for a couple hours without having to plow through all the stages I don't want to play.

 

[Com Fox]

The only thing I was truly disappointed about was the lack of a Chaos and Shadow boss fight. Shadow existence kinda made sense even without a boss fight to explain how the Phantom Ruby works but Chaos did almost nothing. It's hilarious in an ironic way how Chaos was the most hyped of the return villains but was barely used meanwhile Zavok was the least hyped but not only got an introduction and ending cutscene, he also got lines as well as a unique boss fight.

The series is truly in a predictament of where it wants to be, I hoped Sonic Boom would help give the main series some more identity with Boom taking some of the main series mishmash away from it but it didn't work out that way and Sonic Boom seems even more consistent with its settings and themes than the main series. Now of course the series can lighten the load by ditching Classic Sonic but what to do with Modern Sonic? Do you try to push forward the boost mechanic again and fix some of the problems or do you do another control shift like in Lost World when that didn't end so well, or do you go to the outdated Adventure/Heroes style.

I think the Avatar concept can actually stick as long they tweak the controls and its weight (the Avatar felt kind of heavy that I often used the Lightning Wispon as a platforming crutch since it propels me forward without dropping me).

 

[Brend]

The only thing I was truly disappointed about was the lack of a Chaos and Shadow boss fight. Shadow existence kinda made sense even without a boss fight to explain how the Phantom Ruby works but Chaos did almost nothing. It's hilarious in an ironic way how Chaos was the most hyped of the return villains but was barely used meanwhile Zavok was the least hyped but not only got an introduction and ending cutscene, he also got lines as well as a unique boss fight.

The series is truly in a predictament of where it wants to be, I hoped Sonic Boom would help give the main series some more identity with Boom taking some of the main series mishmash away from it but it didn't work out that way and Sonic Boom seems even more consistent with its settings and themes than the main series. Now of course the series can lighten the load by ditching Classic Sonic but what to do with Modern Sonic? Do you try to push forward the boost mechanic again and fix some of the problems or do you do another control shift like in Lost World when that didn't end so well, or do you go to the outdated Adventure/Heroes style.

I think the Avatar concept can actually stick as long they tweak the controls and its weight (the Avatar felt kind of heavy that I often used the Lightning Wispon as a platforming crutch since it propels me forward without dropping me).

The thing is Modern's gameplay in Unleashed and Generations is mostly fine. Forces just seemed to mess up the physics in a way that made it feel off and then gave Uber short stages to match. I still think there's a chance for the 'boost' gameplay to work, SEGA just has to commit to that being the centre of the title.

Like I said in an earlier post, Sonic 3D Rush with Sonic and Blaze would be pretty rad. Though, the fanbase would be split on that idea.

 

[Com Fox]

The thing is Modern's gameplay in Unleashed and Generations is mostly fine. Forces just seemed to mess up the physics in a way that made it feel off and then gave Uber short stages to match. I still think there's a chance for the 'boost' gameplay to work, SEGA just has to commit to that being the centre of the title.

They did that with Colours, it was praised (hell it's my favourite). Granted that game used Wisps as a crutch (even though it is my favourite mechanic) to add layers of platforming challenges.

Unleashed had a problem with either being Boost-2-Win or Trial and Error while Generations is kind of blinded my nostalgia as well as relying on older gimmicks. The 3DS version for some reason bend over forwards to force new elements in the DS era stages (probably because they realized using 2 early stages as the final stages of the celebration game kind of needed tweaks to make it understandable in difficulty), but it's more of a Rush game than the 3D Modern game.

The problem is HOW to make the Boost element work. I think it needs to be a lot more like Colours with more freedom and more 3D. Some people will say Unleashed others will say Generations and then the argument you have of going back to the root of the mechanic with Rush but turn it 3D. SEGA could even go back to the Lost World formula they tried and just not mishmash as many Mario themes as possible and it might be a more popular option if SEGA gets the idea that the Boost formula has lost its edge.

 

[Wolfe]

Maybe I'm just throwing in another conflicting opinion but a somewhat faster Super Mario Odyssey is close to how I think a 3D Sonic game should play (Mario even rolls now). Or, that Sonic Utopia fangame demo. I'm one who thinks Sonic isn't a go-fast dash-a-thon, but a platformer that lets you play with momentum over undulating environments.

Sonic Utopia put a smile on my face like no game since S3&K. Apparently it's still being worked on, but the team has mostly been quiet.

 

[Brend]

Maybe I'm just throwing in another conflicting opinion but a somewhat faster Super Mario Odyssey is close to how I think a 3D Sonic game should play (Mario even rolls now). Or, that Sonic Utopia fangame demo. I'm one who thinks Sonic isn't a go-fast dash-a-thon, but a platformer that lets you play with momentum over undulating environments.

Sonic Utopia put a smile on my face like no game since S3&K. Apparently it's still being worked on, but the team has mostly been quiet.

So a good Sonic Lost World essentially then?

 

[Wolfe]

So a good Sonic Lost World essentially then?

The physics in that seemed pretty typical for a 3D Sonic game to me, which put me off from it after playing the demo.

Utopia is something else. I'm really impressed with how they brought momentum-based physics into 3D and made it work with the level design.

 

[Brend]

The physics in that seemed pretty typical for a 3D Sonic game to me, which put me off from it after playing the demo.

Utopia is something else. I'm really impressed with how they brought momentum-based physics into 3D and made it work with the level design.

Interesting, I dont think LW is anything like the other 3D games, mainly due to the parkour moves and slower pace overall.

It was pretty much a worse Mario game.

 

[Com Fox]

I thought LW felt like a more smoother version of the Adventure games. With Parkour included to increase the smoothness. I don't remember Mario having Parkour.

Looking back, the core gameplay of Lost World was perfectly fine, only problem was when they threw inconsistent gimmicks in the Wii U version and the worlds as well as the Deadly Six for some reason decided to run on Mario design logic.

 

[Brend]

Odyssey's crazy jump moves and the like make it similar to Parkour, it's definitely a lot more dynamic than previous marios.

 

[Com Fox]

Lost World came out before Odyssey though. How can the Physics feel like Mario when it did it first?

 

[Brend]

Lost World came out before Odyssey though. How can the Physics feel like Mario when it did it first?

I didn't say the physics were similar? I just said that the concepts were familiar.

Lost World reminds me of Galaxy which also reminds me of Odessey in terms of level design etc, except Odyssey is obviously much larger.

 

[Com Fox]

I didn't say the physics were similar? I just said that the concepts were familiar.

Lost World reminds me of Galaxy which also reminds me of Odessey in terms of level design etc, except Odyssey is obviously much larger.

Uhhhh... Wolfe said this:

The physics in that seemed pretty typical for a 3D Sonic game to me, which put me off from it after playing the demo.

Which you responded with this...

Interesting, I dont think LW is anything like the other 3D games, mainly due to the parkour moves and slower pace overall.

It was pretty much a worse Mario game.