Sound Update (PD is now hiring! + Email!)Answered 

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I've suspected for a while that PD would go this route. It's pretty spooky, though, because even the specific implementations are very similar to what I've been planning to do, and already have done. Maybe PD are in my brain stealing my ideas; of course, I think it's more likely that we just looked at the "problem" in the same way. Needless to say, that makes me very happy, on several levels. Regarding the specifics of the 1.14 sound update, I've only seen strings from 1.13, so don't know how long they were in there for.

The time scale is up in the air, and has zero to do with slacking. The intake channel is still the largest challenge, and there's BSpec AI and Course Maker rendering to consider as well. I'm thinking spec 2 or never.

This recent update is either promising or a death knell for intake making its way to GT6, depending on whether this was the last they could squeeze out of all the buffer read writes / convolution, or whether this was small in comparison to the changes to come and therefore relatively inconsequential to the final load balance.

Remember, there are no recordings involved here, except maybe the whizzy engine samples. The top end rasp kills detail in all the Red Bull and Senna cars, too - they're worth a revisit at low rpm.

This boxer sound PD threw together (it's custom made for no intake) is much better than anything I was able to get out of it! :D

Also, I keep seeing people saying the new sound engineers are doing their job. Just wishful thinking again; this was always in the works. We've not had news on that front, anyway.
 

mister dog

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I'm just talking with my ears here as i don't know all the terms, but to me it sounds like they just tweaked the existing samples which weren't very good to start with. It does sound better now i have to admit, but the gearchanges still don't sound right and there is that digitized feel to it all because it is basically the same sample.

An improvement yes, but it's still not on par with what other racing games offer even on last gen. I hope they don't use this for GT7 but get rid of that ancient box of samples and start over from scratch.
 


I'm just talking with my ears here as i don't know all the terms, but to me it sounds like they just tweaked the existing samples which weren't very good to start with. It does sound better now i have to admit, but the gearchanges still don't sound right and there is still that digitized feel to it all because it is basically the same sample.

An improvement yes, but it's still not on par with what other racing games offer even on last gen.

The samples are entirely untouched; probably because they're a dead end. The physics are unchanged, so gear changes are the same.

PD have added another layer of spatial processing, that is all.
 

mister dog

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PD have added another layer of spatial processing, that is all.
That's probably what i meant with "tweaked the sounds" :)

So basically you are saying you see signs of what materials they have available to work with and it is promising, but you are still expecting something totally different for GT7 right?
 
That's probably what i meant with "tweaked the sounds" :)

So basically you are saying you see signs of what materials they have available to work with and it is promising, but you are still expecting something totally different for GT7 right?
What they're adding to GT6 will be in GT7, just much better quality. The samples will no longer be an issue, because they'll not be in the game. :)

Think of a more rounded, less coarse version of what they achieved with the Subaru VGT, for all cars - potentially fully customisable. It already is customisable in GT6, we just have no way to do it in game.
 

mister dog

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What they're adding to GT6 will be in GT7, just much better quality. The samples will no longer be an issue, because they'll not be in the game. :)
Well i hope you are right and these samples are burned so no one can ever reuse the bloody things :D
 

1241Penguin

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Well i hope you are right and these samples are burned so no one can ever reuse the bloody things :D


PD be like

will-nph-join-american-horror-story-freak-show.gif
 

mister dog

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^^ Would you like your coffee espresso or laté sir? I'll just grind up the beans in the meantime :D
I wonder how this one sounds with the new update?
 
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I'm not digging the cockpit reverb too much though. It should be an easy adjustment should it?
 
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why? example

in the empty streets of tokyo 246 and Monaco tunnel, and other large valley speedway there is no eco while driving IRL in a tunnel or an empty street with a car that makes a loud noise there will be a eco effect that there is not in GT and that's often lacking

thanks you
Kazunori Yamauchi for this update its just amazing
 
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It only works properly with the Subaru VGT; when they bring the other cars in line with that one, things will make more sense. If they add intake sound, too, it'll be another leap forwards. :)

But what about the likes of LFA? Sounds kinda weird with the reverb. The Subaru is legit like say though
 

shirakawaa

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I think they should tone down the reverb on non-race cars.
Ideally, leave it that way on cheap, old cars and increase it on cars with stripped out interiors (Race cars or cars with the weight reduction modification).
Modern, luxury cars should be way more muffled and have no echoing/reverb that makes them sound like empty cans.
 
But what about the likes of LFA? Sounds kinda weird with the reverb. The Subaru is legit like say though
Yeah the LFA does sound odd. We'll just have to wait and see on that front. I expect the LFA would keep its samples until the PS4, irrespective of an update to GT6, because of how PD have implemented their new method on PS3.
I think they should tone down the reverb on non-race cars.
Ideally, leave it that way on cheap, old cars and increase it on cars with stripped out interiors (Race cars or cars with the weight reduction modification).
Modern, luxury cars should be way more muffled and have no echoing/reverb that makes them sound like empty cans.
They are able to control the timbre using three reflection parameters: high frequency and low frequency gains, plus the cutoff frequency that separates the two bands. The issue is that the reverb doesn't appear to allow that distinction per reflection, only as a whole, so you get very close grouping of resonances (combined effect with reflection lengths, which will all be very similar for a cockpit) instead of the expected spread. Fixable potentially on PS3, definitely on PS4.

Road cars use a lower cutoff frequency and / or lower hf gain, to my ears, so they sound much more bassy.

It's accentuated by the fact that convolution of two (or three!) very different reverbs on one sample sounds fake to our ears; this is the problem with recordings and their baked-in spatialisation. And it's also why the Viziv GT sounds OK by comparison.

I agree they could tone down the resonance a touch for the samples for the time being.
 

shirakawaa

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Road cars indeed seem more bassy (excessively so, even), but not necessarily more muffled, or at least not like I would expect from them.
 
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I'm just talking with my ears here as i don't know all the terms, but to me it sounds like they just tweaked the existing samples which weren't very good to start with. It does sound better now i have to admit, but the gearchanges still don't sound right and there is that digitized feel to it all because it is basically the same sample.

An improvement yes, but it's still not on par with what other racing games offer even on last gen. I hope they don't use this for GT7 but get rid of that ancient box of samples and start over from scratch.


I hate the new interior sound.
 

Johnnypenso

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If they upgrade this Sauber to this sound:


I'll look like that a Mercedes has an V8 engine... :lol:

PD will be competing with this sound on the PS4 quite soon (skip to 1:48 or 2:08 for a "wet your panties" drive by:sly:):

 
...
a "wet your panties" drive by
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Hardly. I liked it better when the Doppler and volume controls were bugged, due to distance clamping. They appear to have tried to "fix" that in the most contrived way, i.e. the clamping is still there and it's being covered up with some weird effect. Only the output should have been clamped, not the physics parameters.

The C9 is one that would benefit from AES on PS3, even in its limited form, and it would already sound better than SMS' offering, overall. I really had high hopes for them, too.
 

Johnnypenso

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Hardly. I liked it better when the Doppler and volume controls were bugged, due to distance clamping. They appear to have tried to "fix" that in the most contrived way, i.e. the clamping is still there and it's being covered up with some weird effect. Only the output should have been clamped, not the physics parameters.

The C9 is one that would benefit from AES on PS3, even in its limited form, and it would already sound better than SMS' offering, overall. I really had high hopes for them, too.
I'm sure there are technical flaws in it, but purely from my own non-technical enjoyment point of view, if GT7 could come anything close to that without sounding completely synthesized, it would be a big leap forward IMO.
 
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PD will be competing with this sound on the PS4 quite soon (skip to 1:48 or 2:08 for a "wet your panties" drive by:sly:):



It's good but I wouldn't say it's "Wet your panties good."

It feels limited. For example, like as if it could roar some more as the revs built up. In short, the emission of sound can be better.
Bear in mind that I know the game isn't done yet so that's subject to change.

It's the same with the Lotus 98T in P.Cars. In GT6 the emission of sound from the 97T is great factoring in that the hardware is a dinosaur, however the sample itself and accuracy of it needs some work. Whereas in P.Cars , the 98T although a great sample, the emission at this current stage needs work still. That's my issue with P.CARS and GT at the moment. It seems that you can only have one thing, Great Samples or Great Emission.

Videos for evidence of my claim.

 
I'm sure there are technical flaws in it, but purely from my own non-technical enjoyment point of view, if GT7 could come anything close to that without sounding completely synthesized, it would be a big leap forward IMO.
What ruins it for me is the disagreement between what I see and what I hear - it's that more primal basis that triggers my "technical analysis" in the first place.

They have more of the detail covered, but aren't making the most of it due to neglected audio control. Of course, PD up until now have done the opposite, neglecting detail in favour of nailing the control (ignoring physics flaws). But when that detail comes...
 
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I am deeply unashamed to say, I've literally no idea what some o' y'all are on about. All I know is interior sound make no sense in some cars - why does many race cars sound like they're underwater in "cockpit view"? All muffled and that. I thought there's no sound insulation on 'em race cars so it should be just as raucous inside just as outside. Or am I missing something??
 
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I am deeply unashamed to say, I've literally no idea what some o' y'all are on about. All I know is interior sound make no sense in some cars - why does many race cars sound like they're underwater in "cockpit view"? All muffled and that. I thought there's no sound insulation on 'em race cars so it should be just as raucous inside just as outside. Or am I missing something??

It's complicated - the sound inside is completely different depending upon the speed of the car and the exit direction of the exhausts. You get a very high sound-level in an open cockpit but your car doesn't sound anything like the others around you - at least I know that's true of single-seaters.