Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[Tassie_tiger]

I'm not sure why people are posting images.
I could have posted dozens of images from the weekend showing extremely well match-maked rooms from Dragon or Bathurst, race after race, with just one or two mixed grids as exceptions.
And a friend I was online with, but with different DR/SR grades, could have done the same.


The thing is, regardless of whether there are 200 or 2,000,000 people online at any given time, unless a certain group (let's say C/B) has precisely a multiple of 12 or 16 or 20, there will be people left out of the main draw.
And this goes for all variations of DR and SR rank combinations.

You are then left with 2 options.
Put these people in a race with other grades, or simply cancel their race.

The choice is obvious.

I think it would be fair to say that most people, most of the time, have no great issue with match-making.
Otherwise the internet would be full of complaints about it, in a similar vein to penalties.
Which, from what I see, isn't the case.

 

[Woodybobs]

I'm afraid I don't see that way, and I never trust stats from Kudosprime as it uses very small sample size.

The sample size is plenty is easily large enough to make reliable assumptions.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The sample size is plenty is easily large enough to make reliable assumptions.

1% of total is easily large enough ? And I never relied on assumptions, there's no reliable assumptions.

 

[Interstellar9]

Driving aids typically wont make the difference between 5 seconds per lap. Racing lines almost certainly will.

If you put a driver who doesn't use aids and can put in a good consistent lap time.. and then turn driving aids on they wont lose 5 seconds per lap, no where near. 1 or possibly 2 at the very most.


Theres two options really: Continue with the status quo and have full lobbies but with potential mixes at slow times of day or... and for me much less appealing: locked lobbies so that no matter what A, B, C or D drivers can only be with one another.. even if that means its only you and 3 other drivers.

I guess the question is would you rather be in a lobby with less people or a fuller lobby with potentially more DR to gain from racing with 'better' drivers?

This is correct but combine driving aids with experience and the perfect racing lines and you have it.

To answer your question: Yes, I'd rather be in a lobby with less people but all within a second of their qualifying times. I rather race against 5 or 6 cars than 14 where the first 6 are like Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull and the rest are fighting for best of the rest like in F1.

And let's not forget that there are drivers with "S" rating in sportsmanship who are pushing somebody off the track or crash into the rear. I'm a driver above the average and I drive around 20 races a week in GT:S but I win...1? Sometimes I don't win any race.

 

[rono_thomas]

1% of total is easily large enough ? And I never relied on assumptions, there's no reliable assumptions.

No but the other stat site which is currently down sampled all profiles and ended up with the same figure that 94 % of GTS purchases have played less than 19 sport mode races.

Same figure that KP present.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

There’s nothing elitist in my reply.

I don't mean you though. I mean that your statement will be shot down by the lower ranked people for being elitist. The reply itself isn't elitist, but you know, people

Where do you see the DR drivers that keep saying "I know I'm slow/I've reached my peak/I just want to have fun" that wants to win despite those claims? What is being asked for is matchmaking, not fill the grid making. And the reasons are numerous not just I WANT TO WIN.
Sure, one of the reasons is that playing a game where you will never ever have a chance to win is certain to stop people from playing. Only those that wants to race at any price will play a game that matches you so that winning or even just being among the best 3 is simply not an option for the large majority of players.

Right now i have a C rating and i consider myself slow, but there is (if i read this right) 79% players with a lower rating.. it is INSANE that obviously quicker drivers get to use them as cannon fodder..

When all is said and done, i think it is only fair that drivers that already are divided into different DR ranks also get to race people on the same level. It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.

Pages 1-11 of this thread. What are the reasons then other than wanting to win that you guys are so annoyed?

The problem isn't the lower players being scarce- it's the other way around. There are already just a handful of A/A+ drivers, and most of them (including me) have moved on to the FiA races because we also want better match making and not just a random assortment of lower ranked people. And every day there's probably another A player that got turned off by matchmaking and moved to the FiA as well. It's a vicious cycle. This is why you keep seeing higher ranked players in low ranked rooms, because these people have nowhere to go. Or do you want these people to have their matches cancelled because you think it's unfair?

Here's the thing: I also don't like grids as they are right now. Why the hell do I want to race against lower ranked people knowing that I won't gain any DR from that and that I couldn't even trust them to have a fair race with me in the first place. However, I can also see that because of the cycle I mentioned earlier, and because the other options are worse, I can understand why matchmaking works this way.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No but the other stat site which is currently down sampled all profiles and ended up with the same figure that 94 % of GTS purchases have played less than 19 sport mode races.

Same figure that KP present.

So having same figure makes them reliable stats ?

 

[kjeldsen]

I'm not sure why people are posting images.
I could have posted dozens of images from the weekend showing extremely well match-maked rooms from Dragon or Bathurst, race after race, with just one or two mixed grids as exceptions.
And a friend I was online with, but with different DR/SR grades, could have done the same.


The thing is, regardless of whether there are 200 or 2,000,000 people online at any given time, unless a certain group (let's say C/B) has precisely a multiple of 12 or 16 or 20, there will be people left out of the main draw.
And this goes for all variations of DR and SR rank combinations.

You are then left with 2 options.
Put these people in a race with other grades, or simply cancel their race.

The choice is obvious.

I think it would be fair to say that most people, most of the time, have no great issue with match-making.
Otherwise the internet would be full of complaints about it, in a similar vein to penalties.
Which, from what I see, isn't the case.

The choice is not obvious. Add more players to the pool by using a wider Sr range (only those with positive Sr). Smaller fields. Race when the lobby is full.

 

[Woodybobs]

1% of total is easily large enough ? And I never relied on assumptions, there's no reliable assumptions.

Yes. If the sample group is randomly selected 50,000 samples will provide accurate results.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

The choice is not obvious. Add more players to the pool by using a wider Sr range (only those with positive Sr). Smaller fields. Race when the lobby is full.

I've been in races of B/B and B/A.
Clearly a spread of SR.

It will always end up the same.
Some people won't have an appropriate race, according to grade, to fit in to.
And with the races being scheduled at regular intervals, the game will find them a race regardless.


Looking at the latest image posted, suggesting it's some sort of evidence, the D/S guys have a spread of 8 seconds.
Exactly what difference does it make to the racing if the letter next to those names is A or B or C or D?

 

[Solocapers]

So having same figure makes them reliable stats ?

I would suggest that given they have all came to the same conclusion through differing methods, then that would suggest that the theory is correct or atleast very very close.

 

[rono_thomas]

So having same figure makes them reliable stats ?

Yes.

And when you notice the change in matchmaking during peak times and days, to off peak times and days, and how matchmaking improves in the FIA events, you have to admit that even being pessimistic to the point of unbelieving there is some truth in the figures.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes. If the sample group is randomly selected 50,000 samples will provide accurate results.

I would suggest that given they have all came to the same conclusion through differing methods, then that would suggest that the theory is correct or atleast very very close.

Yes.

And when you notice the change in matchmaking during peak times and days, to off peak times and days, and how matchmaking improves in the FIA events, you have to admit that even being pessimistic to the point of unbelieving there is some truth in the figures.

Sorry, but I don't buy those stats at all, of course, you are free to believe those stats. I just have different view on stats created from such small sample size ( around 50k from 5+million ), even if they are randomly selected. I also won't use those stats for source in making conclusion.

 

[rono_thomas]

Sorry, but I don't buy those stats at all, of course, you are free to believe those stats. I just have different view on stats created from such small sample size ( around 50k from 5+million ), even if they are randomly selected. I also won't use those stats for source in making conclusion.

The other site which is down does not use a sample, it draws its stats from ALL profiles.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The other site which is down does not use a sample, it draws its stats from ALL profiles.

Which site ? Could you point me to the right direction ? Did the site claim that or mention how/where do they get all the profiles data from ? AFAIK, no stats site extract all players data from PD server in real time.

 

[rono_thomas]

Which site ? Could you point me to the right direction ? Did the site claim that or mention how/where do they get all the profiles data from ? AFAIK, no stats site extract all players data from PD server in real time.

https://jasonguernsey.net/

When its back up and running I will gladly inform you 👍

 

[Solocapers]

Sorry, but I don't buy those stats at all, of course, you are free to believe those stats. I just have different view on stats created from such small sample size ( around 50k from 5+million ), even if they are randomly selected. I also won't use those stats for source in making conclusion.

That's fair enough but that's how polling is usually done and its nearly always accurate to a few % points.

Barring Trump and Brexit in the UK , polling of that type is usually an accurate representation (using a random selection of the total population) this has been typically the go to means and is generally an accurate description of the bigger picture.

 

[Outspacer]

Which site ? Could you point me to the right direction ? Did the site claim that or mention how/where do they get all the profiles data from ? AFAIK, no stats site extract all players data from PD server in real time.

Sigh, real time? move the goalposts much? It takes 3 or 4 days to scan all of the profiles (see here). K'prime scans just a sample much more frequently, and comes up with numbers that are very close to the full scan. It's always agreed well enough that it's not worth arguing over.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sigh, real time? move the goalposts much? It takes 3 or 4 days to scan all of the profiles (see here). K'prime scans just a sample much more frequently, and comes up with numbers that are very close to the full scan. It's always agreed well enough that it's not worth arguing over.

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

 

[kjeldsen]

Pages 1-11 of this thread. What are the reasons then other than wanting to win that you guys are so annoyed?

You guys? who are you guys? Those that play the game for fun or those that makes it a life or death thing? Is it anyone below DR S or is it those that cheat to get a Platinum Trophy? Is it SR wreckers? Is it smurfers? Who exactly are these "you guys", because they sure as hell isn't me.

Did you read the huge amounts of reasons that i for example have been making? And what is the problem with people in lower ranks wanting to win a race, honestly? Who does it hurt that you get a Rank D winner in a race with A+ / B and C racers? What is the problem with asking for a fair matchmaking? You ignored this part of my post:

When all is said and done, i think it is only fair that drivers that already are divided into different DR ranks also get to race people on the same level. It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.

You have a valid point in the player base not being big enough, but then PD needs to create a different way to race, where the game simply waits until there is enough to fill up a grid.

 

[Solocapers]

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

Well when you are posting publically that they are wrong it makes people want to educate you using the available facts. Rather than beliefs.

I hope that doesn't come over as rude but there's no real way to say it otherwise.

Much like the argument against climate change deniers who, up against all the available and independently verified data which all comes to the same conclusion using differing datasets still say that they believe its not correct.

 

[rono_thomas]

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

Of course it doesn’t but what you believe or not does not change the accuracy of a statistic either.

 

[Woodybobs]

Sorry, but I don't buy those stats at all, of course, you are free to believe those stats. I just have different view on stats created from such small sample size ( around 50k from 5+million ), even if they are randomly selected. I also won't use those stats for source in making conclusion.

You're creating doubt when there is no need to. The results are gathered from actual numbers. There are almost no variables to consider. The chances that a randomly selected 50,000 sample size does not represent the whole in this case are too small to be worth bothering about.

 

[Outspacer]

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

You asked questions. I gave you a link to inform you of the other site's method.

 

[cjr3559]

I bet those 4 racers had a lot of fun blowing us away last night. View attachment 760539

I haven’t watched much F1 since the Schumacher days, but this matchmaking more or less encapsulates what things were like back then.

If the FIA went to Kaz for help to promote their image and garner interest in racing, then this game doesn’t appear to help much. It just proves that in racing there will always be a few that reign supreme and everyone else is there to fill the grids. Just hope the credit payouts are worth the time because it’s been so long since I’ve participated in a Sport race I forget.

For me, driving games are all about the joy of driving cars, not participating in online shark tanks à la “Hunger Games”.

Yep, this game isn’t for me, and I realize that.

 

[Veinz]

When all is said and done, i think it is only fair that drivers that already are divided into different DR ranks also get to race people on the same level. It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.

Then maybe ranked/competitive gaming isn't for these people, because this is how it works. Sometimes you get matched against people who are way better than you, sometimes you have it easier. This whole thread is as ridiculous as an FPS player who complains about being matched with people who are too good at aiming.

- from a dad with very limited play time, btw.

 

[kjeldsen]

Then maybe ranked/competitive gaming isn't for these people, because this is how it works. Sometimes you get matched against people who are way better than you, sometimes you have it easier. This whole thread is as ridiculous as an FPS player who complains about being matched with people who are too good at aiming.

- from a dad with very limited play time, btw.

Ranked... how? That is the whole point of this discussion, there is no ranked matchmaking, and competitive gaming is what PD set out to create with this game.

But with FPS games that are competitive.. there is a ranking system, so that those that are the best at aiming gets a challenge and those that suck a bit still have fun. So, like what's your point?

 

[AUTISTICBOYX]

No need to argue, if you believe those sites, I won't stop you. It doesn't concern you what I believe, does it ?

Its not about belief but about statistical analysis. If you don't understand it, thats ok. Some people believe that the earth is flat but that's on them, too.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

You guys? who are you guys? Those that play the game for fun or those that makes it a life or death thing? Is it anyone below DR S or is it those that cheat to get a Platinum Trophy? Is it SR wreckers? Is it smurfers? Who exactly are these "you guys", because they sure as hell isn't me.

Did you read the huge amounts of reasons that i for example have been making? And what is the problem with people in lower ranks wanting to win a race, honestly? Who does it hurt that you get a Rank D winner in a race with A+ / B and C racers? What is the problem with asking for a fair matchmaking? You ignored this part of my post:

When all is said and done, i think it is only fair that drivers that already are divided into different DR ranks also get to race people on the same level. It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.

You have a valid point in the player base not being big enough, but then PD needs to create a different way to race, where the game simply waits until there is enough to fill up a grid.

"You guys" are the people who keep complaining which is why this thread blew up in the first place. I take it that they (and maybe even you) are very annoyed at matchmaking since this thread wouldn't have reached 14 pages otherwise?

Maybe I've missed the reasons you mentioned. I'm sorry if I did and direct me to them. I don't have a problem with people in the lower ranks wanting to win a race. The problem I have are people who complain they can't win when they don't put in the time and effort that the winners do to win. A D racer winning in an A+/B/C race hurts so many people more than you think. Just imagine how much DR those people below will lose- probably even thousands from that single player if you're A+. I also want fair matchmaking, but like I said in the rest of my post, this is in practice really hard to achieve both because of the low active playerbase count and because of the A driver cycle.

I addressed the part you said I ignored with my opinion on being matched with DR D drivers. Do you think I find sense with it as well? No I don't. If I stretch it really really far, isn't it unfair even for A drivers as well because not only are we wasting time for next to no DR, we are also at a much higher risk of DR loss on the off chance that we do lose to a D driver?

If there's anything to go by with your proposed matchmaking, look at WoT's for instance. It works quite well during peak hours similar to GTS' instant matchmaking, but on the off-hours queues can take as long as 5 minutes- sometimes even being cancelled for waiting too long. What happens there is that during the off hours literally zero people play at all. There's not enough of them even when they wait in the first place, but then who wants to wait 5 minutes- sometimes even more- for a 10 minute battle? Is this what you want for GTS matchmaking?

Ranked... how? That is the whole point of this discussion, there is no ranked matchmaking, and competitive gaming is what PD set out to create with this game.

But with FPS games that are competitive.. there is a ranking system, so that those that are the best at aiming gets a challenge and those that suck a bit still have fun. So, like what's your point?

You're in for a treat:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...to-average-driver.380987/page-9#post-12443935

 

[mthomas_95]

It does not make sense to match a Semi Pro driver with a dedicated Wheel / Pedal setup that does millions of hours vs a family dad that can squeeze in 1-2 hours during the weekend and a single race during the week.. in the living room, with cats, dogs and kids running around. And yet, that is exactly what the games does.. screw that.

With all those distractions why would you enter a competitive environment though and then actually complain that it's the games fault? What do you want the lobby to pause for everyone until the kids/pets leave the room . Sometimes stuff comes up mid race or qualifying, but I don't expect everyone to stop just for me to see to it.

Also not all A and A+ guys spend 10+ hours a day on the game, with expensive wheel setups and no distractions because they have no life. All of those preconceived ideas what it takes to be good are mostly myths and only just hold a lot of people back because they are 'unattainable'