SRF on seasonals

[StirlingMoose]

While tuning for the 380PP Miata seasonal, I noticed something about the forced SRF. It gave the cars an undesired amount more understeer, more stability. I had to overtune for oversteer just to get them to turn in well. Sure the SRF would kick in mid corner and hold the grip, but turn in was a bigger issue than the already understeery PD physics.

I took one of my Miata SRF seasonal tunes for some offline non SRF testing and whoo was it a handful. I toned it back down to a normally balanced car and was able to turn faster laps than in the SRF seasonal.

From my perspective, forced SRF was just another useless aid that I had to tune around to get the car to do what I wanted it to do.

This kinda validates my assertion that for some expert drivers SRF might slow them down. Most drivers will be quicker with SRF, and I know I am, but this is because it rewards sloppy driving not because it actually improves the normal handling.
Where it does offer a huge advantage is in races rather than TTs, where you can pull-off the most ridiculous dive-bomb manoeuvres, braking and turning in far too late, and still stay on the track.

 

[sparkytooth]

Sparky is even more dissapointed that the recent NR-A roadster (the MX5) races forced it on as well (feels stupid to have it on).

 

[NCRthree]

This kinda validates my assertion that for some expert drivers SRF might slow them down. Most drivers will be quicker with SRF, and I know I am, but this is because it rewards sloppy driving not because it actually improves the normal handling.
Where it does offer a huge advantage is in races rather than TTs, where you can pull-off the most ridiculous dive-bomb manoeuvres, braking and turning in far too late, and still stay on the track.

I posted a couple pages back how SRF enfluences normal driving. I drive a 89 Miata around Tsukaba on different compounds with and without SRF, check it out. There's absolutely no way to not have SRF enfluence your car's handling. Some folks contend that if you drive in a "normal" manner that SRF doesn't engage. Not true. You would have to consciously slow down to match your lap times without SRF.

I know some of you think the anti forced SRF bunch is overeacting and need to get over it. Bunch of purist jerks! Here's the deal: ASpec is lame, Kaz even admitted it hence the Seasonal Events. Now that the Seasonals are the bread and butter of GT5 offline they've basically become GT5 career. ASpec and prior seasonals never had a forced aid. Why 2 years into the game change that approach?

 

[SirAlanClive]

Marketing.

 

[StirlingMoose]

I posted a couple pages back how SRF enfluences normal driving. I drive a 89 Miata around Tsukaba on different compounds with and without SRF, check it out. There's absolutely no way to not have SRF enfluence your car's handling. Some folks contend that if you drive in a "normal" manner that SRF doesn't engage. Not true. You would have to consciously slow down to match your lap times without SRF.

I know some of you think the anti forced SRF bunch is overeacting and need to get over it. Bunch of purist jerks! Here's the deal: ASpec is lame, Kaz even admitted it hence the Seasonal Events. Now that the Seasonals are the bread and butter of GT5 offline they've basically become GT5 career. ASpec and prior seasonals never had a forced aid. Why 2 years into the game change that approach?

You're probably right. Hami stated that it seemed to affect the turn-in understeer too. Personally I've never noticed the difference when driving within the cars limits but I'm probably not the best judge. Wholeheartedly agree with your second paragraph though.

 

[Brandoningham]

As I mentioned in a post on one of the other threads, I dont particularly like it but I dont see why people should make such a big deal about it. It hasn't affected my driving thus far and certainly won't in the future. If you can't adapt your driving, why are you playing. Like it or lump it, we're stuck with it regardless of how much we hate it.

 

[Morgoth_666]

I can adapt my driving just fine... to other events and games where I can run with my own options. No need whatsoever to waste any time on these.

 

[NCRthree]

DTM's with SRF now. Looks like it's here to stay, dang it.

I love how people defend PD's forced SRF by saying it's great for begineers to make big credits. Yet PD label the event "EXPERT"! So PD thinks a so called begineer is too ignorant to turn on an aid on their own.

At least that's the only forced aid. I ran the Miata seasonal with ABS 0 and it eliminated much of the inherent SRF turn in understeer.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

From the DTM seasonal thread:

I see you skipped the Tsukuba race too, Cargo.

Anyway, for some light relief and to top out my financial status again I tackled Cape Ring in my old 190 E 2.5 -16 Touring Car. Always liked this car, from GT4 I think, and also like the Cape tracks.

$2,189,400.

I however don't make a song and dance about having to use SRF, I accept that, 'He who pays the piper calls the tune'.

I expect these races are designed for those who may require additional cash, a lot of additional cash, to buy cars etc etc.

And many new players, without the extremely high skill level of people like myself and Cargo (hoo ha), will be very happy to be able to participate in a Seasonal and make some dough, while having a ball.

After all, that's what it's really all about, having some fun.
It's not just to satisfy the better players all the time or every time.

The powers that be know all about the private races etc which take place which many of the better drivers attend, and good on them. But these races are clearly not designed for the better drivers, unless they require a top up of course.

So I suggest we stop putting ourselves above those who race here, for whatever reason, and accept that there are......HORSES FOR COURSES, and remember that once upon a time we were not as skilled as the majority.

Why do people keep saying this? It's not always about wanting SRF off because we think we're good drivers. Some of us (like me) don't care about how good we are at this game, but just want the most realistic exprience possible.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Let's face it, it is not some one's error, it is intentional, why? we might never know.
Seasonnal were fun as long as I did not have to use SRF, until it is optional again, seasonnal are inexistant in my GT5, same as A-Spec.
No big deal, still have fantastic racing opportunity in Arcade and, anyway, I am spending most of my time racing real racers online in the DNE lounge, without any aids so for me GT5 as never been better. Life is good

 

[FormulaKimball]

It's not always about wanting SRF off because we think we're good drivers. Some of us (like me) don't care about how good we are at this game, but just want the most realistic exprience possible.

Amen to that. If we thought we were such good drivers, we wouldn't bother trying to improve (e.g. by making an effort to get off the driver aids). And with PD forcing SRF on multiple consecutive seasonals now, evidently the most realistic experience is no longer what they will offer. Maybe GT6 will just integrate SRF into the physics and you'll never be able to turn it off.

I'm just trying to enjoy my fav Real Circuit Tours seasonal before they replace it with some SRF-forced event too...

 

[Ills1999]

From the DTM seasonal thread:




Why do people keep saying this? It's not always about wanting SRF off because we think we're good drivers. Some of us (like me) don't care about how good we are at this game, but just want the most realistic exprience possible.

SRF ON is MORE realistic than SRF OFF. Street soft tires have more traction IRL than they do in the game.

 

[Ills1999]

SRF aside.
Did you see the size of the audi etron tyres in the 2012 24hr Le mans ?

@Ills1999 don't forget that you cant change the width or height of the tyres/wheels. So 200hp probably could smoke the miata tyres depending what finaldrive and gearbox you're running. Though if i had have got 200hp out of a 850kg mazda i would have put some wider tyres on....PD....Ahem!!!!

I've never set up a transmission/fd to top out at 120, so there may be something to that.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

SRF ON is MORE realistic than SRF OFF. Street soft tires have more traction IRL than they do in the game.

I would like to see proof.

 

[Argon]

SRF ON is MORE realistic than SRF OFF. Street soft tires have more traction IRL than they do in the game.

Wow Ills1999, that one really takes the biscuit!! I had thought that if nothing else, the discussions in this thread which were aimed at you personally would have demonstrated that the effect SRF gives, regardless of tyre choice, is categorically NOT realistic in any way, shape or form!

That statement is probably your most outrageous one yet but hey everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess

 

[Mightypickle]

Went to the Sony message boards looking around about this. Apparently mods from that site have contacted pd about this, this is what he posted.

MastrGT (Level 8)
Feb 3
I have asked the GT team about this, but I have not received a response nor do I expect one. We can guess why they are locking on driver aids in expert events, but we would probably be wrong. They are aware of our displeasure with this, so it is up to them, now.

-------------------

So they know, and apparently aren't concerned that a lot of players (the people paying their salaries) aren't super stoked about it.

 

[Ills1999]

Wow Ills1999, that one really takes the biscuit!! I had thought that if nothing else, the discussions in this thread which were aimed at you personally would have demonstrated that the effect SRF gives, regardless of tyre choice, is categorically NOT realistic in any way, shape or form!

That statement is probably your most outrageous one yet but hey everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess

Outrageous? I don't think so. I have plenty of experience driving plenty of vehicles over plenty of decades. Soft street tires offer much more grip IRL than 'comfort softs' in the game. I would say that SRF ON is closer to realistic, from my experience.

I do agree that some people put forth a more compelling argument than others, but none of the positions match my real world experience.

One can look at the pretty radical tunes from the top tuners here, see what they are trying to do to make the car stick, and come to the conclusion that tuning doesn't effect handling in this game in a realistic way.

 

[citycar]

The only person i've observed to make true to life tunes is motor city hami, the rest of the tuners are (intentionally or unintentionally) exploiting the GT5 physics engine. Some admit to as much.

That said with the 'realistic' approach once you get a tune working comfort tyres all of a sudden arent so bad. Its just that the vast majority of default tunes are rubbish.

German touring cars seasonal, SRF force on

 

[Argon]

Outrageous? I don't think so. I have plenty of experience driving plenty of vehicles over plenty of decades. Soft street tires offer much more grip IRL than 'comfort softs' in the game. I would say that SRF ON is closer to realistic, from my experience.

I do agree that some people put forth a more compelling argument than others, but none of the positions match my real world experience.

One can look at the pretty radical tunes from the top tuners here, see what they are trying to do to make the car stick, and come to the conclusion that tuning doesn't effect handling in this game in a realistic way.

I probably have more miles under my belt than most folks would ever want and I really can't agree with your conclusion. I do agree that the tuners on this site will offer tunes that compliment the physics of the game, to do anything otherwise would be counter-productive!

The issue over realism with the tyres has absolutely nothing to do with SRF and to suggest that turning it on makes the comfort tyres more realistic is laughable. IMHO comfort tyres in the game are not that far from offering realistic levels of grip. I simply can't accept your reasoning for switching SRF on, the only reason it makes sense is that the person that want's to use it is simply doing so to gain an edge over a non SRF driving experience. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone that want's to make that choice but please, don't try to rationalise it by saying it makes the tyres seem real!

 

[Johnnypenso]

Outrageous? I don't think so. I have plenty of experience driving plenty of vehicles over plenty of decades. Soft street tires offer much more grip IRL than 'comfort softs' in the game. I would say that SRF ON is closer to realistic, from my experience.

I do agree that some people put forth a more compelling argument than others, but none of the positions match my real world experience.

One can look at the pretty radical tunes from the top tuners here, see what they are trying to do to make the car stick, and come to the conclusion that tuning doesn't effect handling in this game in a realistic way.

Based on these comments I'd be surprised if you were old enough to have a driver's license yet.

Why do people keep saying this? It's not always about wanting SRF off because we think we're good drivers. Some of us (like me) don't care about how good we are at this game, but just want the most realistic exprience possible.

Because they can't understand the common sense, rational viewpoint that more than one type of player enjoys the Seasonals, and something as simple as having SRF as optional means anyone can enjoy it with their own personal settings.

 

[Ills1999]

Based on these comments I'd be surprised if you were old enough to have a driver's license yet.

I've been driving for 28 years, what about yourself?

Because they can't understand the common sense, rational viewpoint that more than one type of player enjoys the Seasonals, and something as simple as having SRF as optional means anyone can enjoy it with their own personal settings.

Common sense dictates that PD understands that their physics are flawed and that they've applied a bandaid to the non realistic handling and unresponsive to tuning adjustment game which they have created.

The folks who assume they know more than the developers are deluding themselves.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

SRF ON is MORE realistic than SRF OFF. Street soft tires have more traction IRL than they do in the game.

Wow, I bet you believe in the Easter Bunny too,

 

[Ills1999]

Wow, I bet you believe in the Easter Bunny too,

It's comments such as this that draws criticism. Attack the idea, not the person.

 

[Adrenaline]

It's comments such as this that draws criticism. Attack the idea, not the person.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. He isn't attacking SRF in that statement, he's attacking the wild claim that SRF is 'more realistic' and guess what, SRF didn't make that statement, a person did.

 

[citycar]

I've been driving for 28 years, what about yourself?



Common sense dictates that PD understands that their physics are flawed and that they've applied a bandaid to the non realistic handling and unresponsive to tuning adjustment game which they have created.

The folks who assume they know more than the developers are deluding themselves.

Ok so give an example where the developers have said their physics system is flawed. I think if you try you can find multiple references where PD are pretty happy with their physics engine.

 

[Adrenaline]

Ok so give an example where the developers have said their physics system is flawed. I think if you try you can find multiple references where PD are pretty happy with their physics engine.

So happy that they altered the 'unflawed' physics about 10 times... 👎

 

[citycar]

So happy that they altered the 'unflawed' physics about 10 times... 👎

Sorry man, i added a quote for clarification, several posts got in before mine. Yes perhaps they are unhappy with somethings, but when it comes to their tyre compounds and SRF i think they are happy with it - at least from what i have seen and read.

 

[sparkytooth]

I've heard that PD or atleast Kaz is happy with the physics.In an interview before GT5's release he stated that the main physics changes are for the tyre compounds and physics related to them as well as more specific suspension physics,also stuff related to weather effects,not entirely new but they're better than in the PS2 games.

 

[citycar]

Interesting idea in terms of exploiting SRF to earn more money in seasonals that have SRF forced on.
People often talk about changing the setup and the way they drive with SRF on to promote oversteer so that they can go faster with SRF on. So my idea is rather then going to the effort of changing the tune of a car what if one was to put a harder compound tire on the back. This would promote oversteer and with a softer tyre on the front you'd have more turn in. On sharp turn in the back of the car would oversteer, but then SRF would kick in and increase grip to the back of the car.

So maybe this would be a quick and easy way to go fast with SRF on but without having to modify the tune of a car.

 

[Logoncal21]

SRF will stop being forced on, just a matter of time. either because they got enough SPAM E-Mails asking to put out SRF(some asking kindly, others in a angry way) or;
they realise that how stupid are they beign by forcing srf.
i don't like srf not because it's unrealistic or because is for new players.
i don't like it because i feel so bad to using knowing that i will have annormal grip
making optional will not hurt your body Kaz... not even your money.








even though i play the seasonal events when i lack of money XD, still have some unfinished ones that SRF is not forced on