Statistical anomalies in motorsports.

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Carbonox, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Liquid

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    For all their success, no driver has ever won multiple Formula One titles with Williams.

    This unusual record is shared only with Alfa Romeo and everybody's favourite statistics breaker, Brawn.
     
  2. Roger the Horse

    Roger the Horse

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    Williams:

    Alan Jones - 1980
    Keke Rosberg - 1982
    Nelson Piquet - 1987
    Nigel Mansell - 1992
    Alain Prost - 1993
    Damon Hill - 1996
    Jacques Villeneuve - 1997

    Alfa Romeo:

    Nino Farina - 1950
    Juan Manuel Fangio - 1951

    Brawn:

    Jenson Button - 2009

    BRM:

    Graham Hill - 1962

    Matra:

    Jackie Stewart - 1969 (although really the Matra International team of 1969 was just what would become Tyrrell in 1971 & 1973)

    -----------------------------------------
    Need to add BRM to that list, and Matra if we're being pedantic and counting Matra in 1969 as seperate from Tyrrell in 1971 & 1973 with Jackie Stewart.

    Arguably one can tie the Matra - Tyrrell connection further all the way to Brawn's 2009 title and the modern Mercedes team's many championships but at that point that's pushing the pedantry to a whole other level.

    Also it's worth noting that Maserati are only excluded from that list on the grounds that Fangio drove a Maserati in the first two rounds of 1954 before the new Mercedes-Benz was ready, driving the majority of the season for Mercedes and giving Maserati about 1.25 drivers championships in total.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  3. Liquid

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    I was under the impression that the Matra was entered by, or on the behalf of, Tyrrell which would make it team and not constructor but I am happy to be corrected.

    Points taken about the other teams though. It's very easy for oversights to happen when you've nothing to do but browse records and stats...

    I still find it quite surprising that nobody did it more than once with Williams, considering that they won 3 titles in 8 years and then 4 titles in 6 years.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  4. Roger the Horse

    Roger the Horse

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    Williams got through a fairly high turnover of drivers during that period.

    Alan Jones: 1978 - 1981
    Clay Regazzoni: 1979
    Carlos Reutemann: 1980 - 1982
    Keke Rosberg: 1982 - 1985
    Mario Andretti: 1982
    Derek Daly: 1982
    Jacques Laffite: 1983 - 1984
    Jonathan Palmer: 1983
    Nigel Mansell: 1985 - 1988, 1991-1992, & 1994
    Nelson Piquet: 1986 - 1987
    Riccardo Patrese: 1987 - 1992
    Martin Brundle: 1988
    Jean-Louis Schlesser: 1988
    Thierry Boutsen: 1989 - 1990
    Damon Hill: 1993 - 1996
    Alain Prost: 1993
    Ayrton Senna: 1994
    David Coulthard: 1994 - 1995
    Jacques Villeneuve: 1996 - 1998
    Heinz-Harald Frentzen: 1997 - 1998

    And of those drivers only Jones, Reutemann, Mansell, Piquet, Hill, Villeneuve, and maybe Patrese would've been driving for the team more of less full time in multiple seasons where the team was in major championship contention, and a couple of those drivers were ultimately just outclassed by their own teammates while they were there.

    Mansell and Hill both came painfully close to winning two titles for the team, losing out to Prost and Schumacher respectively at Adelaide in 1986 and 1994 respectively.

    The rate at which Williams drivers have left the team after winning the title for them also has to be much higher than that of any other team. Piquet, Mansell, Prost, and Hill all either wound up at other teams (in a different series in Mansell's case) or retired following their Williams titles.

    It's an anomalous statistic, but ultimately one which only exists for want of a nail (or I guess Nigel Mansell's tyre blowing out) and otherwise has a strong explanation.
     
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  5. Liquid

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    In 1999, Ralf Schumacher whitewashed his teammate Alex Zanardi thirty-five points to nil.

    35-0

    Did you know that Zanardi was nominally the team leader?

    Car no. 5: Alex Zanardi
    Car no. 6: Ralf Schumacher

    It is not exceptional for a number two driver of a point-scoring car to outscore the team leader.
    Even the same year, Frentzen outscored team leader Hill 54-7 but to whitewash a team leader so comprehensively is quite anomalous.
     
  6. Barra333

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    Did Zanardi have some poor luck with engine failures from points places, or was he just bad that year. I know he wasn't fundamentally a bad driver.
     
  7. Liquid

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    A bit of both.

    He was 4 years out of experience with Formula One, very different to CART as we know, and he struggled to maximise grip with the unfamiliar grooved tyres. All the other drivers from 1998 had at least one year's experience.

    And he did have lots of mechanical problems with 10 DNFs that year. If something went wrong on a Williams that year, it was to Zanardi's car.
     
  8. FutureF1

    FutureF1

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    The German National Anthem played on every podium in 2015. Haven't done enough searching to see if anything like this has happened before.
     
  9. Barra333

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    Assuming you mean that a nation was represented by either the winning driver or manufacturer then it happened in at least 1991-1993 where only McLaren, Williams and Benetton won races, all under the British flag. I assume it happened in several other years where Ferrari didn't win a race.
     
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  10. Liquid

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    The Italian anthem was played in 16/18 races in 2004. Only Räikkönen/McLaren in Belgium and Montoya/Williams in Brazil broke Italy's string.
     
  11. HaydenFan69

    HaydenFan69

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    Plus, it came across and was later confirmed by Alex that the team had really give. Up on him even before the Monaco Grand Prix that year.

    Not the most knowledgeable about rally history, but the era of Loeb and Ogier taking the title from 2004-2018 and winning 123 of 209 rallies is just astounding. Even more than the Mercedes/Hamilton or Ferrari/Schumacher eras.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  12. Barra333

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    There are plenty of recent near misses for Germany as well as the 2015 season - 2014 was all Mercedes except for 3 Ricciardo wins, 2016 was 19/21, broken up by a win each for Verstappen and Ricciardo in the Red Bull. 2017 was 17/20 but a nice mix of Mercedes or Vettel wins. Broken up again by the Red Bulls.
     
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  13. Roo

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    After 10 seasons of car racing, starting in 1983, including 4 full seasons in Formula 1 ('88-'92), Gabriele Tarquini only led a race for the first time - and took his first car race victory - at Misano, round 5 of the 1993 Italian Supertourismo touring car championship.

    Edit: Disregard, I can't read.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
  14. Liquid

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    He apparently won two rounds of the championship in 1989 but take the limited amount of information as you will.
     
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  15. Roo

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    Thanks. Turns out I misread the source (a Motorsport Magazine article from 1993) which was refering to his single seater career :O
     
  16. Liquid

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    Even still, he more than made up for it when he switched full-time to touring cars.

    Tarquini has broken his own record as the oldest motorsports world champion; he set the record in 2009, beating Fangio's long-standing record, when he won the WTCC at the age of 47 years and 266 days, then surpassed it in 2018 when he won the WTCR at the age of 56 years and 259 days.

    ---

    Luigi Fagioli, the oldest Grand Prix winner, is the only winner of a Formula One World Championship Grand Prix born in the 19th century; he was born on 9th June 1898 and was 53 years and 22 days old when his car won the 1951 French Grand Prix in a shared drive with Fangio.

    Just to complete the tale, Fagioli was incensed at being seconded to Fangio's broken machine, finished 22 laps down and quit on the spot when the race was over.
     
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  17. Carbonox

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    It's worth noting that fellow Luigi - Luigi Musso - is the only other driver whose only F1 victory was in a shared drive, at the '56 Argentine GP with none other than Fangio.

    Also having looked up that race in depth, I noticed that all 13 cars (imagine any world championship having fields like that today) were comprised of just 2 makes, Ferrari and Maserati. That and the fact they were obviously all Italian might be a record for least parity ever.
     
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  18. Liquid

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    The previous year's 1955 Argentine Grand Prix, for what it's worth, has the distinction as the Grand Prix with the greatest number of driver changes. It was so hot that all but two drivers swapped cars. Some entries were classified as being shared by three drivers, it was that bad.

    Fangio (1st) and local driver Roberto Mieres (5th) were the only two drivers to drive the entire race, which lasted three hours. Fangio even suffered third-degree burns to his legs during the race but refused to yield his car; it took him over 3 months to recover and the resulting scars remained for life.

    The combined driver changes led to a professional accounting company being hired to calculate the actual results, so frequent and widespread were the driver changes.

    The soaring temperatures of 40° air temperature would not be beaten until 50 years later at the 2005 Bahrainian Grand Prix where the temperature eked at 42°.
     
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  19. Liquid

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    Coincidental Statistics



    Jordan's direct descendant team also had a German substitute driver at this race who failed to complete the first lap.

    Well, a DNS is almost identical.
     
  20. Roo

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    Both had clutch issues, if it helps.
     
  21. -Fred-

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    Hulkenberg 7 times WDC confirmed?
     
  22. Carbonox

    Carbonox

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    One thing that popped to my mind about Gabriele Tarquini is that he may just be the only driver to finish first and dead last in consecutive seasons of a world championship, but that's kinda finnicky since the new WTCR doesn't have championship status anymore.

    Still, he won that title in 2018 while being classified all the way in the bottom of the 2017 WTCC with a double disqualification to his name.