Statistical anomalies in motorsports.

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Carbonox, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Liquid

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    The 1990s is the only decade in which no driver won the BTCC more than once; from Robb Gravett in 1990 up until Laurent Aïello in 1999 there was a different and unique champion each year.

    1990 - Robb Gravett
    1991 - Will Hoy
    1992 - Tim Harvey
    1993 - Jo Winkelhock
    1994 - Gabriele Tarquini
    1995 - John Cleland
    1996 - Frank Biela
    1997 - Alain Menu
    1998 - Rickard Rydell
    1999 - Laurent Aïello

    This is excluding the 1950s, of course, as the championship was founded in 1958.

    I will not argue any semantics about what is or isn't "a decade".
     
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  2. Liquid

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    With his wins in Belgium and Italy Charles Leclerc joins the illustrious list of drivers such as Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill and Mika Häkkinen who won their first two Grands Prix back to back but, uniquely, Mika Häkkinen did it over two different seasons.

    He won his first Grand Prix at the season-ending 1997 European Grand Prix and followed it up winning the season-opening 1998 Australian Grand Prix.
     
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  3. Roger the Horse

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    Is there a full list of drivers whose first two wins were back to back? I know Lewis Hamilton is another driver on that list, but I'm wondering what the most in a row from win 1 a driver has acheived is. Didn't Damon Hill get 3?
     
  4. Liquid

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    I think the list is Mansell, Damon Hill, Häkkinen, Hamilton and Leclerc. It's not long.

    Hill did indeed get three in a row for the maximum record.
     
  5. RazorSharkz

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    Alberto Ascari Germany-Italy 1951
    Bill Vukovich Indy 500 1953-1954
    Peter Collins Belgium- France 1956
    Bruce McLaren USA 1959- Argentina 1960
    Rene Arnoux Brazil-South Africa 1980
    Nigel Mansell Europe-South Africa 1985
    Damon Hill Hungary-Brazil 1993(3 races)
    Mika Hakkinen Europe 1997-Brazil 1998(3 races)
    Lewis Hamilton Canada-USA 2007
    Charles Leclerc Belgium-Italy 2019
     
  6. Liquid

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    Vukovich sort of doesn't count because although it is true for him the two races themselves were not back-to-back.

    The list is far more exhaustive than David Croft had me believe though.
     
  7. Tired Tyres

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    Häkkinen was gifted his first two wins though.
     
  8. Liquid

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    [​IMG]

    Hard to disagree.
     
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  9. RazorSharkz

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    Yaaaaa, the Indy 500 in the 50s throws off almost every stat in F1. I mean if someone else decided it didn't count I wouldn't blame them but he didn't compete in other races between them. Ascari's wins weren't in back to back races either if I remember right but he wasn't at the race between.
     
  10. Roo

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    Giancarlo Baghetti won his first 3 F1 GPs, although the first 2 were non-championship races.
     
  11. Jimlaad43

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    Not unique, Bruce McLaren won his first two consecutive races in different years (and decades) too
     
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  12. Liquid

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    Already corrected myself on my post being... well, irrelevant. Never trust Crofty!
     
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  13. Liquid

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    In 1995 Rickard Rydell was on pole for 13/25 BTCC races, incredibly more than half. Despite the crushing qualifying domination, he only converted 3 of those poles into wins* and did not win the title that year.

    It's one of the more unusual tales of specific dominance that did not result in title victory.

    *He had four wins in total but only three were from pole position.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
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  14. Barra333

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    That makes me wonder who has the worst conversion rate of poles to victories in F1 (with a minimum of 5 or 10 poles).
     
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  15. Liquid

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    Worst I've found so far is Nelson Piquet. A fair few drivers seem to hover somewhere between 30-50% but Piquet only converted 5/24 poles into wins at 20%. Jean-Pierre Jabouille is 16% at 1/6 but I think fewer than 10 pole positions is statistically insignificant.

    And of course, reliability comes into this a lot with Jabouille's Renault turbo a good example. In an era with typically bulletproof mechanical reliability, it'll take me a bit longer to do it for the 21st century.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
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  16. -Fred-

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    René Arnoux is runner up at 22%-ish, with 4/18 converted.
     
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  17. Pete05

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    If you look back at the races from this year, they couldn’t keep up the pace with tyre degradation.

    Quick over a single lap, not so much over a race distance.
     
  18. Roger the Horse

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    I'm interested to know what the worst average finishing positions are that drivers have attained over the course of a season in various major series and still emerged as champion. I'd assume Nascar would have the general lowest average finishes for champions because they have such large fields but I'm interested to know where it trends elsewhere.
     
  19. Dotini

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    Attempt to explain this anomaly:
    At the time Piquet was setting a run of astonishing qualy times was coincidentally also the time of ultra high-boost turbos, tire wars and Q-tires, neither of which had much to do with racing after the green flag. I think Nelson's 5-bar 1300hp iron block BMW and Q-tires gave him a boost in qualifying that didn't persist after the start.
     
  20. Liquid

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    Michael Schumacher in 2002: 1.4
    Keke Rosberg in 1982: 5.6 with retirements, 3.6 without.

    In an era where points only went down to 6th.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  21. Carbonox

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    Giuseppe Farina in 1952 is, I believe, the only ever championship runner-up who never outscored the season's champion in any race. The only opportunity to do so, given that Ascari won 6 out of 8 rounds and Farina didn't attempt the Indy 500, was the opening race at Switzerland where Ascari wasn't attending due to his own Indy commitments. Farina started on pole in that race, broke down and took over a teammate's car only for that to suffer the very same fate.
     
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  22. Liquid

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    Gerhard Berger took Benetton's first (1986 Mexican Grand Prix) and last (1997 German Grand Prix) win. Even with a one-season wonder, Button took Brawn's first Grand Prix but Barrichello scored Brawn's last win.

    Edit: It is not unique; Fangio took Maserati's first (1953 Italian Grand Prix) and last (1957 German Grand Prix) win.

    Has it occurred in other motorsport series? Specifically for teams with more than one win and wins by more than one driver. One and only win teams like Stewart and Hesketh don't quite count.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  23. GTPorsche

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    2016, Jimmie Johnson with an average finish of 14.0, for the worst NASCAR championship average finish.
     
  24. Liquid

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    14th?

    Even for Nascar, that's quite something.
     
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  25. Carbonox

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    Well, only one race counted for it to be entirely honest. Who cares if you half-ass 2/3 of a season as long as you win Homestead?
     
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  26. GTPorsche

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    Truth. It definitely highlights how flawed that system is. In fact, average finishes for champions didn't go worse than 10.X until the chase/playoff system was created. Even Matt Kenseth's one win championship season in 2003, he averaged a 10th place finish for the season.
     
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  27. Pete05

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    As a traditionalist, I can't even watch NASCAR anymore.

    To me, it's now nothing more than a reality-type show with gimmicks.
     
  28. Liquid

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    Some boring F1 statistics for you:

    The country with the current longest streak in having a driver in Formula One is the United Kingdom, having had a driver every year. The leanest year was 2004 with just two drivers represented in David Coulthard and Jenson Button.

    This is not a surprise. The next two longest tenured countries are slightly surprising, in their own ways.

    Germany
    A country that did not really have a successful driver in F1 until Michael Schumacher, Germany has actually had a driver in Formula One every year since 1981, a remarkable 38 years and a full decade before Schumacher's arrival. Manfred Winkelhock, Stefan Bellof, Christian Danner and Bernd Schneider valiantly carried the Bundesfahne during the 1980s and in 1990 before Schumacher cemented a German F1 legacy that has continued ever since through Nico Rosberg and Sebastian Vettel.

    Finland
    Not surprising because Finland produces untalented drivers but because Finland produces few F1 drivers in a gross numeric scale, with just 9 drivers representing the siniristilippu. In fact, there has been a Finnish driver in F1 every year since 1989, an astonishing 30 years. JJ Lehto carried the first two years before the most famous names of Mika Häkkinen Kimi Raikkönen and Valtteri Bottas kept the lineage going, not forgetting Mika Salo and Heikki Kovaleinen, who fortuitously bridged the gap inbetween Raikkönen's sabbatical.

    Which historically famous F1 countries miss the cut?

    Italy
    The producer of the second-greatest number of Formula One drivers had its bloc interrupted in 2012 where there were no Italian drivers on the grid; Giancarlo Fisichella retired in 2009 and neither Jarno Trulli nor Tonio Liuzzi were retained after 2011.

    It is worth noting that Italy has produced two of the top ten most experienced Grand Prix drivers in history in Jarno Trulli and Riccardo Patrese and that specifically, between 1989-1991 there were thirteen Italian Grand Prix drivers on the grid each year.

    France
    Once a powerhouse of driver production in the 1960s and 1970s, France started falling on hard times starting in the 1990s. After Olivier Panis' retirement from Formula One, 2005 saw no French drivers on the grid meaning that France's current streak is nowhere as long as it should be.

    Acknowledging Franck Montagny's drives in 2006 and Romain Grosjean's debut drives in 2009, it would be eight years until a full-time French Grand Prix driver was on the grid between Panis' exit in 2004 and the return of Grosjean in 2012.

    Brazil
    With a continuous legacy stretching back to Emerson Fittipaldi's debut in 1970 that continued with major career blocs from Nelson Piquet, Ayrton Senna and Rubens Barrichello, Brazil had a remarkable run of 47 years but since Felipe Massa's retirement in 2017, there hasn't been a driver from Brazil on the grid.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  29. Barra333

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    That got me thinking about Australian representation...
    Australia managed to be represented in some form each year from 1955-1981.
    Jack Brabham drove 1955-1970 and Alan Jones 1975-1981. 1971-1974 was covered by 4 different drivers who collectively flew the flag at most GPs.

    Things were pretty dire until Mark Webber appeared in 2002, whose career overlapped with Ricciardo 2011-2013 to give Australia another steady run in F1.
    Shout out to the Brabhams in 1990 and 1994. Gary failed to prequalify for the first two races of the the 1990 season, while David either DNF'd (17 times) or DNQ'd (6) in 30 attempts between the two seasons.
     
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  30. RazorSharkz

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    Anytime Kyle Busch wins a Cup Race in Nascar he does this. He was the first win for Toyota in 2008.