Stick or Automatic?

[kikie]

I was 6 y.o. when I drove for the first time. It was in a Daf 33 and on drove it on a privat road (this car wasn't legal to drive on the public road anymore. Car was too old and wasn't registered anymore).

A Daf had a vario matic and not an automatic gearbox, which is actually almost the same thing to drive.

At the age of 12, I started driving my father's Mercedes. Managed to get to 4 th gear without a problem.

But..... I have to agree with some statements of other members. An automatic is easier and safer to learn how to drive on a public road.
There are more skills involved driving an automatic and you have to pay a lot of attention to the clutch and the stick itself. I believe that most people (not all of them ofcourse) look at the the stick to see in which gear they are at when learning to drive a manual? They should be looking at the road and traffic, not the stick.

It's safe to say that your decision to start learning to drive with an automatic is the correct decision. But, if you have to opportunity to learn to drive a manual on a parking lot or a privat place, don't hesitate to take this opportunity.

 

[TheCracker]

Surely you're not aiming that at me... suggesting that I never paid attention before I started learning?

No, not aimed at anyone. I'd imagine that a large majority of members here are car enthusiasts so have or do take notice of what's going on when they are passengers in cars.

Sadly, for those drivers on the road for whom cars are merely a mode of getting from A to B, the first time they get behind the wheel of a car is probably the first time they've ever contemplated the actual experience of driving a car.

Being nervous when you begin to take lessons (and even after you first pass your test) is natural, being totally unprepared and therefore finding the whole experience traumatic (which many drivers obviously continue to feel many years after they manage to pass their test) is unacceptable when you are sharing the open road with others.

 

[niky]

This should be more like it :

The perfect car to learn how to drive, Tsuchiya approved it
Drive it down a mountain pass, and reap the reward.

There are no road-going cars with the level of steering or chassis feedback you get from a go-kart. Except mayhaps a Super Seven.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There are no road-going cars with the level of steering or chassis feedback you get from a go-kart. Except mayhaps a Super Seven.

I know that, I was just kidding , but there's one thing go kart does not have, gearstick lever and a clutch to help the driver fused with the engine

 

[Azuremen]

I'm shocked at how many American drivers can't use a manual, it's borderline pathetic as it's not even remotely difficult - it's laziness. I would never even consider a car with an automatic gearbox, it's manual or nothing. No true driving enthusiast would consider an automatic to be better than a manual in any way at all.

Not all people care about this, and especially in some American cities like LA. Plus, with 8 speed automatics, people are seeing better MPG figures from those than 5 or 6 speed manuals.

Of course, the question was whether he should learn to drive on a stick or an automatic. Not that you bothered to read this before coming in here with "let me use this as an excuse to take a dig at Americans."

This should be more like it :

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/lafro/images/history/ae86_drift.jpg

The perfect car to learn how to drive, Tsuchiya approved it
Drive it down a mountain pass, and reap the reward.

I don't get why people love the AE86 so much... I suspect many fans of them have never actually driven one. They aren't anything special at all, especially compared to other period cars like the Miata or MR2.

I know that, I was just kidding , but there's one thing go kart does not have, gearstick lever and a clutch to help the driver fused with the engine

This really depends on the car as well. My Corolla's clutch and stick didn't really connect you to the car anymore at all, while my M3's does a great job of communicating with me.

 

[Bopop4]

I know that, I was just kidding , but there's one thing go kart does not have, gearstick lever and a clutch to help the driver fused with the engine

A shifter kart.

At the start, you hold the brakes on and rev it a bit.
Then with the brake on you let the clutch out a bit so that it just starts to grab.
You keep letting the clutch out and giving it more gas until you are flat out and the kart is bouncing up and down.

That'll keep you fussed.

 

[avens]

Tsuchiya drives an automatic.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I don't get why people love the AE86 so much... I suspect many fans of them have never actually driven one. They aren't anything special at all, especially compared to other period cars like the Miata or MR2.

This really depends on the car as well. My Corolla's clutch and stick didn't really connect you to the car anymore at all, while my M3's does a great job of communicating with me.

I love the old Corolla, most old cars have heavy clunky clutch, firm shift lever and harder to control on the limit as they have no ABS, TC or EBD gizmos. To me, they are all special, Miata, MR2 AW/SW, AE Rolla, EF/EG Civics just to name a few.

A shifter kart.

At the start, you hold the brakes on and rev it a bit.
Then with the brake on you let the clutch out a bit so that it just starts to grab.
You keep letting the clutch out and giving it more gas until you are flat out and the kart is bouncing up and down.

That'll keep you fussed.

I never heard of a go kart with shifter, I learned something new today

 

[Azuremen]

Tsuchiya drives an automatic.

I'm wondering when you'll contribute to the thread. Should probably start a betting pool on it I'm thinking...

I love the old Corolla, most old cars have heavy clunky clutch, firm shift lever and harder to control on the limit as they have no ABS, TC or EBD gizmos. To me, they are all special, Miata, MR2 AW/SW, AE Rolla, EF/EG Civics just to name a few.

And how many of these have you driven? None of the old Toyotas really have a heavy clutch, though certainly clunky shifters unless you fiddle with them a bit. The Miata has a light clutch generally but excellent feel being FR, while all the transaxle setups tend to be lack luster. Honda managed some exceptions to it but their transmissions also like to grind and fail from that era far too often.

Oh, and shifter karts are bonkers to watch get around a tight track.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have driven quite a few when I was in college, most of them are modified though, heavy duty clutch or twin plates variety. All of my cars I have owned also have upgraded clutch, heavy duty ones or twin plates at least. I hate oem clutch. Exedy is a good brand, cheap and durable for day to day drive.

 

[avens]

I'm wondering when you'll contribute to the thread. Should probably start a betting pool on it I'm thinking...

Says buttercup, toyota corolla owner.

We all know each transmission type pros and cons, and if not google can help. It comes down to preferences and whether the car is "sporty" or not, though you have to admit the proper way of sunday driving is manual all the way and that you simply can't be a car enthusiast without knowing how to use a manual.

 

[Azuremen]

Says buttercup, toyota corolla owner

I'm curious if you've ever read my signature...

I'd say an automatic is better to start driving on at first, because you are typically nervous enough without worrying about stalling on hills or in traffic. And certainly aren't good at driving with generally zero experience. Learning a manual later on in life isn't really that hard if you are capable of thinking and have some basic motor skills, and I'd say it is worth knowing the basics for when you have to drive your drunk friend's car for him, etc.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Says buttercup, toyota corolla owner.

I'm a fries Polo owner... probably just as bad

 

[Jet Badger]

Even the assumed 'automatic' go karts are not automatic at all. They don't have automatic gear changes because they don't have a set of gears to shift through. Basic ones have only an archaic centrifugal cluch between the motor and the axle. More advanced karts have a centrifugal clutch plus a torque converter (CVT / variator, however you call it) that variates the gear ratio through a wide range depending on how much throttle you apply and how fast you are going (use google for more info).

Autos in cars work in a completely different way. Ofcourse some manufacturers offer cars with CVT boxes aswell, but they are still very different than the ones in go karts aand this thread is about shifting gears by yourself vs having a fluid do it instead while you're eating a supersized hotdog, so transmissions with no fixed ratio gears are not the ones we are talking about.

 

[Bopop4]

More advanced karts have a centrifugal clutch plus a torque converter (CVT / variator, however you call it) that variates the gear ratio through a wide range depending on how much throttle you apply and how fast you are going (use google for more info).

No kart that I know of uses a CVT.
It's all either a centrifugal clutch with one gear, or a shifter.

Oh, and shifter karts are bonkers to watch get around a tight track.

You should see the superkarts go.
160mph and they hold the lap record at some full size tracks.

And Tsuchiya does not drive an automatic 86...

 

[niky]

A variator is not a CVT, but it does allow variability between engine speed and wheel speed to somewhat the same effect.

 

[Bopop4]

The clutch does the same job as what a converter would do, on a 4-stroke it locks at about 2500-3000rpm, depending on the settings.
After that it just stays locked.

 

[Jet Badger]

Torque converters are probably more popular among DIY kart builders. They allow you to be in the RPM sweetspot on different speeds when using non-gokart-spec motors.

 

[avens]

And Tsuchiya does not drive an automatic 86...

That was the point, same with his nsx. All racing drivers and known car enthusiasts can't stand autos in cars they own, no matter if it is more relaxing for daily driving.

As you get better and better it's weird driving an automatic. Actually not having that much of lift off oversteer, no engine braking, power that doesn't completely stop if lifting, not choosing gears and not being as focused (that last one is probably a personal thing) is kind of dangerous if you are not used to, even for daily driving. I'm more cautious with autos than manuals lol.

 

[Bopop4]

Maybe, I've never seen one on a kart apart from that snowmobile motor abomination.
Most DIY karts use Honda GX style motors, and they have a powerband as flat as a pancake.

 

[homeforsummer]

That was the point, same with his nsx. All racing drivers and known car enthusiasts can't stand autos in cars they own, no matter if it is more relaxing for daily driving.

Would love to see some sort of evidence of this. Because I strongly suspect that's total bollocks.

 

[Tornado]

That was the point, same with his nsx. All racing drivers and known car enthusiasts can't stand autos in cars they own, no matter if it is more relaxing for daily driving.

Racing drivers are generally far more concerned with whatever they are driving allowing them to win than they are about whether they have to heel-toe or pull a paddle or do nothing at all but apply throttle and brake.

 

[Bopop4]

And since a car is only for A to B on a public road, I don't think they care, I know I don't.
Automatics are way more practical, and if you need the control of a manual, then you are going too fast for the conditions.

 

[Danoff]

I'm shocked at how many American drivers can't use a manual, it's borderline pathetic as it's not even remotely difficult - it's laziness. I would never even consider a car with an automatic gearbox, it's manual or nothing. No true driving enthusiast would consider an automatic to be better than a manual in any way at all.

This thread is not about whether you drive an automatic or manual, or whether you prefer one to the other. This thread is about whether to learn to drive on an automatic or manual.

 

[salikriaz]

And since a car is only for A to B on a public road, I don't think they care, I know I don't.
Automatics are way more practical, and if you need the control of a manual, then you are going too fast for the conditions.

Exactly. I mean really, steering, gas, and brakes are the only things you need for day to day driving.. manual cars for daily driving are more for the enthusiasts than anything.

And this thread makes no sense... If you want to learn manual then learn... If not then get an auto.

 

[TriumphTT900]

Learn standard if possible. Good skill. But to be honest.. You don't need a manual to be a good driver..or to enjoy driving. As previous people mentioned, knowing safe operation of your vehicle is most important. Now if you plan on getting a motorcycle license, knowing how to drive a stick helps.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

And since a car is only for A to B on a public road, I don't think they care, I know I don't.
Automatics are way more practical, and if you need the control of a manual, then you are going too fast for the conditions.

Correct me if I get this wrong. So just because people drive manual or want to own one, they speed?

 

[Bopop4]

of lift off oversteer, no engine braking, power that doesn't completely stop if lifting,

Correct me if I get this wrong. So just because people drive manual or want to own one, they speed?

I was talking about Avens post, the thought that you need a manual for better control means that you are going too fast.

 

[Danoff]

And this thread makes no sense... If you want to learn manual then learn... If not then get an auto.

The thread is about which transmission to have in a car while learning to drive.

I quit. How is the original question so difficult to comprehend? How many people came in here thinking this was yet another auto vs manual thread. You guys are making me hate humanity right now.

 

[Bopop4]

It's quite easy, learn on an auto so that you have less to worry about, and then you can learn the manual later.