Stop Hating Polyphony Digital

[FelipeMartins]

 

[TT3AZ]

OK, the game was not everything that you expected, its not completed and there is some delays. but its happening because they want perfection, they released the game this way because there was a lot of pressure on them.

They could work like a lot of studios around which releases 2+ games a year just to take your money, but they don't want money they want perfection

Your kidding me boy, of course PD want money, without money theres no foundation. Perfection, well there were perfection in gt2 on that time, but gt series has to move on, since gt4, PD has just delivered unfinished products. PD needs to make their organizatiom more effectime, and use new methods to model cars. They modell cars from pictures, like they did in the good old times. Why not try laser scanning a la Turn 10?

No man, PD has really made fans dissapointed since gt2.

 

[Tornado]

In this tread, complaining about complaining happens.

 

[McClarenDesign]

OK, the game was not everything that you expected, its not completed and there is some delays. but its happening because they want perfection, they released the game this way because there was a lot of pressure on them.

They could work like a lot of studios around which releases 2+ games a year just to take your money, but they don't want money they want perfection

No doubt. If you already bought the game, then you're already committed and whining isn't gonna help.

At the very top of this site is a section called "Feedback", and it's specifically geared to the PD employees/reps/whatever that check this site (and they do!), so if you have a complaint, rather than whine, offer a solution there.

Whining about a game after you bought it is pointless, unless you quickly returned the game (which I highly doubt many here have).

That being said, there's nothing wrong with being dissappointed and upset that features were left out or flawed. Happens with every game.

Rather than create another thread to b*tch about it, try the Feedback section and get it out there. The time spent whining could be better used helping those that are struggling with the game, and racing in general.

Go have fun, dammit.

It's like my grandma says, "don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

Great thread.

 

[Mulan]

They left out things so others can do better games. They are nice company that wants others to make money to.

 

[heinz57]

This title reminds me of "Leave Brittany alone!"

 

[McClarenDesign]

No man, PD has really made fans dissapointed since gt2.

Sorry, but you don't speak for me, and generalizations like this have a tendency to create more drama than they're worth.

PD worried about money? Nope. If so, we wouldn't have made it through 4 generations prior to this. That's not to say they don't want to sell copies of their games, but profit is not PDs motive. Maybe Sony's, but not PD.

PD had a vision with GT1, and it's continued (better or worse) since, and sold a ton more copies than they really needed to.

If PD were only concerned with money, there's no way we'd have GT Academy, as that does nothing but lose money.

 

[McClarenDesign]

This title reminds me of "Leave Brittany alone!"

Exactly, which is why it's gotta stop.

LEAVE GT5 ALONE!

If you're upset/disappointed, that's ok. Just voice it in the Feedback section where it might actually do some good. Not here, where it'll be flamed.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

This is just a symptom of GTPlanet catering to hardcore fans of Gran Turismo. The most popular message board for any other game would be exactly the same. Big fans of a product are the most critical of all, have the highest expectations (almost always unrealistic), and I can`t really fault them for that.

There is also a big disconnect between being a fan of a video game and having a deeper understanding of how they are made. The limited knowledge of a lot of people leads them to over simplify game development:

Oh, they left out Feature X, but Feature Z is in the game. If only they had not wasted so much time on Feature Z!!!

It is the misguided belief that there is no specialization in game dev careers, that every member of a large development team is identical, and that any one person can do the same amount of work on any aspect of a game, and can be plugged into a different workstation to work on another feature at a moments notice.

 

[Jordan]

There is also a big disconnect between being a fan of a video game and having a deeper understanding of how they are made. The limited knowledge of a lot of people leads them to over simplify game development:

It is the misguided belief that there is no specialization in game dev careers, that every member of a large development team is identical, and that any one person can do the same amount of work on any aspect of a game, and can be plugged into a different workstation to work on another feature at a moments notice.

Excellent post, Mike. 👍

 

[diegorborges]

Excellent post, Mike. 👍

I second that. People usually don't know the ammount of work and time involved on doing even 1 single modification. Because that small modification will generate more procedures in the future test phase of the game development. As they work as companies, testing stuff out its deeply required. And even with all that sometimes we get games with flaws.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I second that. People usually don't know the ammount of work and time involved on doing even 1 single modification. Because that small modification will generate more procedures in the future test phase of the game development. As they work as companies, testing stuff out its deeply required. And even with all that sometimes we get games with flaws.

I'm no programmer, but I know a few, and they all tell me that for every change you make, you'll uncover 2+ glitches that seem unrelated. Once I get a job at PD, though, I'll be happy to keep everyone informed on how they accomplish their updates.

Of coarse, it'll be tough to do, seeing as how I'm not a programmer. Perhaps I can be PD's janitor.

Don't laugh, they have access to everything!

 

[MNLumberjack]

OK, the game was not everything that you expected, its not completed and there is some delays. but its happening because they want perfection, they released the game this way because there was a lot of pressure on them.

I'm with him on this part

Plus its just a game and they all have flaws
Except Portal 2 that game is perfect.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I'
Except Portal 2 that game is perfect.

So long as the PSN is up, lol

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

To add a bit of colour to my previous remarks, I have a different viewpoint than a seeming majority on this forum, I would have to say.

The biggest thing I wanted from GT5 was good a handling model and a rock solid platform for online racing, and PD surpassed my expectations.

I just figure once the door was thrown open to online play, everything in A-Spec against the AI just seems drab and lifeless. If you went into GT5 wanting a rich, exhaustive, long offline ''career mode'' in A-Spec, then yep you have every right to be disappointed.

 

[McLarenGTR]

Your kidding me boy, of course PD want money, without money theres no foundation. Perfection, well there were perfection in gt2 on that time, but gt series has to move on, since gt4, PD has just delivered unfinished products. PD needs to make their organizatiom more effectime, and use new methods to model cars. They modell cars from pictures, like they did in the good old times. Why not try laser scanning a la Turn 10?

No man, PD has really made fans dissapointed since gt2.

what he is trying to say is that PD is actually trying to make a game that is enjoyable and good, unlike most other game developer companies release the same trash every year (like call of duty) and want people to buy their game. PD is not like this, they want their games to be perfect, so they actually do care about their game. like i said, COD releases the same garbage every year and they know they can do that because their games are labeled "COD". if PD did this dont you think the GT series would be getting worse?

 

[TT3AZ]

what he is trying to say is that PD is actually trying to make a game that is enjoyable and good, unlike most other game developer companies release the same trash every year (like call of duty) and want people to buy their game. PD is not like this, they want their games to be perfect, so they actually do care about their game.

Perfect? Why cant we change wheels on standard cars, and whi is online mode poorly implemented? Do you call that perfection?

 

[McClarenDesign]

Perfect? Why cant we change wheels on standard cars, and whi is online mode poorly implemented? Do you call that perfection?

I call it better than nothing. Could've had only 200+ cars and the same online as Prologue. While I enjoyed Prologue, I also enjoy choosing who I race with.

 

[McLarenGTR]

Perfect? Why cant we change wheels on standard cars, and whi is online mode poorly implemented? Do you call that perfection?

i said they want it to be perfect. if they had these options in the game, they would need more time to implement them. they probably had more important things to add in before this, so they put it to the side.

 

[McClarenDesign]

i said they want it to be perfect. if they had these options in the game, they would need more time to implement them. they probably had more important things to add in before this, so they put it to the side.

Kaz did want 2 more years. Just sayin.

If I'm gonna blame anyone for GT5s imperfections, it would be currently Sony.

Granted, I don't work at PD, and if I found out that they spent 3 years or so bowling instead of working on GT5, then I'd be hugely upset.

Fact is, PD didn't publish the game. They only provided a master copy of what they had when it was demanded, and Sony published and distributed.

I guess if anyone's to blame for GT5s flaws, it's us, for demanding so much so quickly.

 

[diegorborges]

Well, online in prologue sucked. Really.

Now, thinking about the other viewpoint that Mike stated, yeah... the physics are great and online works very well. That's it.

And just want to add that Sony is the real one that must be blamed for demanding PD to add stuff that most of the players don't want. We had our expectations surpassed in older games from the series.

Just remembered when I first played GT2 I tought: damn, they simply can't make this any better...

 

[FishHunters]

No one "hates" PD.

If you bought a car and it didn't do the things you expected what would you do? Complain and take it back. Likewise we have a right to complain if it doesn't meet our expectations; we shelled out our hard earned money for it.

Rushed? Incomplete? Probably...BUT

There is such a LONG list of things that were "amateurish" about the released product. Box shadows. Everything I think about it I just shake my head. Imagine if this was the 1st GT. How many people would be anticipating the next one?

This is a competitive business. From what I hear about Forza it makes me wish I had an Xbox.

We have a right to expect a certain level of quality and if we don't get it we have the same right to complain about it. If you think they're aren't thinking about money then you've just buried your head in the sand.

The next product needs to be a whole lot better or they stand a real chance of losing sales and therefore jobs. If you think it's not about money, think again.

 

[FishHunters]

If you went into GT5 wanting a rich, exhaustive, long offline ''career mode'' in A-Spec, then yep you have every right to be disappointed.

Which is EXACTLY what I wanted. I would be satisfied with the length of the career mode if the AI was a better opponent.

I call it better than nothing. Could've had only 200+ cars and the same online as Prologue. While I enjoyed Prologue, I also enjoy choosing who I race with.

Which is pretty much what we got. There are so many Skylines and Fairladys and Lancers that it's just throw ins to make the total # of cars seem exorbitant. Truly you can call it a 200 car game with 800 throw ins.

I really don't appreciate "Fanboys" telling me I have no right to criticize their game. I still like the game a lot even though I've got a lot of problems with it.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

This is just a symptom of GTPlanet catering to hardcore fans of Gran Turismo. The most popular message board for any other game would be exactly the same. Big fans of a product are the most critical of all, have the highest expectations (almost always unrealistic), and I can`t really fault them for that.

There is also a big disconnect between being a fan of a video game and having a deeper understanding of how they are made. The limited knowledge of a lot of people leads them to over simplify game development:

It is the misguided belief that there is no specialization in game dev careers, that every member of a large development team is identical, and that any one person can do the same amount of work on any aspect of a game, and can be plugged into a different workstation to work on another feature at a moments notice.

Excuse me for raining on the Kumbaya parade, but the console video game industry set themselves up for the criticism.

They have no-one to blame but themselves.

If they don't know what it takes to make a game, then who does?
Specialization?
Remember, thats what the $30 to $60 price increase was for.
Thats a 100% increase.
Not even the oil companies get that much of a one time jump.

They created most of the grandios expectation and then can't deliver.
So who set who up for what?

It has nothing to do with hating PD.

 

[FishHunters]

The Real Problem

The real problem with GT5 is leadership. They need a director who knows how to create and stick to a project plan. If you listen to Kaz in his interviews you get the distinct impression that he kept getting ideas and added them to the project; each idea cost time and manpower.

If they had just developed a streamlined plan and stuck to it...and left the "new ideas" to a later project we WOULD have gotten a better product in a shorter amount of time.

 

[McClarenDesign]

After playing both, I think both GT5 and Forza have done enough to differentiate themselves from each other, which is funny because for the most part each is the other's only competition.

People that like each will buy each, and I don't see many features that would justify buying both the game and console to play the other. Obviously, if you have both consoles, this becomes a non-issue. What I think you're referring to is the ability of either to draw market share from the other. Don't have the data in front of me, but personal experience has taught me that those who have already bought their consoles did it for specific reasons and aren't likely to change simply because of one title. Globally, that may differ, but I think each of the two are focusing more on their core audience rather than gaining marketshare, and considering recent successes of each (debatable, I know), I honestly don't think money is the primary concern or motivation of either developer. Sony vs. Microsoft is a complete other animal, however, and the monkeywrenches thrown at both developers cause things like this to happen.

The boxy shadows was definitely something that should've been fixed before release, but from the interviews I've read it was something the developers simply weren't able to work around by the time Sony/we demanded the game. Again, I think 5 was only the foundation for 6, which should be even better.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Which is pretty much what we got. There are so many Skylines and Fairladys and Lancers that it's just throw ins to make the total # of cars seem exorbitant. Truly you can call it a 200 car game with 800 throw ins.

I really don't appreciate "Fanboys" telling me I have no right to criticize their game. I still like the game a lot even though I've got a lot of problems with it.

You have every right to criticize, I just like to see it constructive with solutions offered. Not saying you aren't by any means, but there are a lot of threads like that. I'm just saying that complaints should be addressed in the feedback section, where they have the greatest chance of doing the most good. Wanna create a thread with a link to it? Go for it, but please keep the debate civil, not whiny (again, this isn't in reference to you, more the board as a whole).

As for the Skyline/Farlady/Lancer/3000GT/Miata/ETC debate, Kaz even agrees, albeit in hindsight. At one time, he said, the subtle differences justified their inclusion. Now, again in hindsight, he understands that those resources could've been better spent. All part of the learning process, and sure to be fixed in 6. I like variations on cars, but jesus I don't need both the EU and US versions when there's hardly a difference.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Also, I think if money were truly an issue for either GT or Forza, both consoles would've been bundled upon their release, or maybe a month or two after. Face it, these games sell consoles more than many others (like Metroid does for Nintendo), and if money were the issue, I think Prologue would've been bundled a long time ago when the PS3 was released.

PD loves cars. Even made a commercial about it. Sony loves money. Even got hacked about it (in a roundabout sorta way).

 

[FishHunters]

After playing both, I think both GT5 and Forza have done enough to differentiate themselves from each other, which is funny because for the most part each is the other's only competition.

People that like each will buy each, and I don't see many features that would justify buying both the game and console to play the other. Obviously, if you have both consoles, this becomes a non-issue. What I think you're referring to is the ability of either to draw market share from the other. Don't have the data in front of me, but personal experience has taught me that those who have already bought their consoles did it for specific reasons and aren't likely to change simply because of one title. Globally, that may differ, but I think each of the two are focusing more on their core audience rather than gaining marketshare, and considering recent successes of each (debatable, I know), I honestly don't think money is the primary concern or motivation of either developer. Sony vs. Microsoft is a complete other animal, however, and the monkeywrenches thrown at both developers cause things like this to happen.

The boxy shadows was definitely something that should've been fixed before release, but from the interviews I've read it was something the developers simply weren't able to work around by the time Sony/we demanded the game. Again, I think 5 was only the foundation for 6, which should be even better.

This should never happen. Why do you think Sony forced PD to get the game out? #1 selling game on the planet at $20 or $30 a pop for them? Don't think Sony is too worried about the war since they didn't announce a PS4 at this weeks E3. That's another long story.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I wasn't expecting the PS4 into, and probably won't for about 2 more years.. maybe. Right around the time 6 should be completed.... hopefully.