Stop Hating Polyphony Digital

[Tornado]

Kaz did want 2 more years. Just sayin.

Kaz also said that the game could have been released, finished, in June of 2009, and that the only reason it wasn't was so everyone could throw that final level of polish on it.
Imagine the surprise, then, 2 years later (and six months after release) that the game is still looking decidedly amateurish in spots (see: Standard cars where the LoD settings are still screwed up) and lacking major functionality advertised on the back of the box and the GT website (leaderboards, matchmaking, GT5 save compatibility); let alone how obviously unfinished it was when it first came out (fully customizable transmission where you can only tune the final drive?).

As for the Skyline/Farlady/Lancer/3000GT/Miata/ETC debate, Kaz even agrees, albeit in hindsight. At one time, he said, the subtle differences justified their inclusion.

This is another one where Kaz is just saying things to hear himself talk. Anyone who has played GT2 can tell you why that is a load of crap. Those subtle differences still do justify their inclusion, but PD made no effort to actually model those differences for GT5 like they did for GT2.




So forgive me if I don't find off-hand comments made by Kaz to be worth anything.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Excuse me for raining on the Kumbaya parade, but the console video game industry set themselves up for the criticism.

They have no-one to blame but themselves.

If they don't know what it takes to make a game, then who does?
Specialization?
Remember, thats what the $30 to $60 price increase was for.
Thats a 100% increase.
Not even the oil companies get that much of a one time jump.

They created most of the grandios expectation and then can't deliver.
So who set who up for what?

It has nothing to do with hating PD.

Look, being able to deal with and deconstruct careful, planned, close to deceitful marketing is a basic skill of being a functioning adult. Being a big fan of a game series or brand makes it harder, indeed, but it still isn't an excuse.

''Oh, dammit, Apple! Your marketing was so good, you practically forced me to buy this iPad and now I am not as impressed as I thought I would be'' is basically your point?

There are good publishers, mediocre, and bad publishers. There are good studios and mediocre and bad studios. Blaming the entire industry is silly and is the easy way out.

Let's not take a thread about one studio and turn it into a tirade against the whole industry, shall we? 👍

 

[ShaneG]

Saw the title, and couldn't help but think this is what the thread would be like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Look, being able to deal with and deconstruct careful, planned, close to deceitful marketing is a basic skill of being a functioning adult. Being a big fan of a game series or brand makes it harder, indeed, but it still isn't an excuse.

''Oh, dammit, Apple! Your marketing was so good, you practically forced me to buy this iPad and now I am not as impressed as I thought I would be'' is basically your point?

There are good publishers, mediocre, and bad publishers. There are good studios and mediocre and bad studios. Blaming the entire industry is silly and is the easy way out.

Let's not take a thread about one studio and turn it into a tirade against the whole industry, shall we? 👍

Some studios have put out a better product than others.

Unfortunately, IMO PD fell way short on this offering and its reflected here at GTP for obvious reasons.

Nevertheless, it is all too common an occurrence that games are subpar in many areas, when they for reasons already stated, should be better than ever.
I don't know about you, but if a 100% cost increase particularly in a "intellectual" touted product, doesn't considerably raise your expectation of quality, you must be comatose.

In this respect it is "industry wide" and not just a PD thing.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Lets be honest GT5 is one of the biggest disappointments i've ever known in my long history of playing video games. Now because this is a dedicated GT website it isn't representative of the majority who purchased GT5. However after what happened today I can tell you the majority who purchased GT5 were bitterly disappointed.

Today I decided to trade GT5 in because I hardly ever play the game anymore and im also going to sell my G25/Wheelstand Pro. So today I went into Game and was only offered £10 for both GT5 & GT PSP. I was amazed at this and was expecting at least £25. According to the manager the reason for the low price is because he has 20X more traded in copies of GT5 than he has originals in the store! Seems everyone who traded GT5 says the same and that is they find the game a chore and boring.

I won't say I hate PD but im certainly bitterly disappointed in them. I purchased my PS3, G25, Wheelstand Pro specifically for GT5 and yet im selling all of these. My G25/Wheelstand Pro are virtually brand new because I kept these in the box until GT5 was released. So im entitled to be annoyed at PD because i've wasted alot of money. I really enjoyed GT5P but I never for one minute expected GT5 to be inferior in some respects!

 

[Astro-Racer]

However after what happened today I can tell you the majority who purchased GT5 were bitterly disappointed.

What happened today?

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

What happened today?

Like I explained the incredibly low trade in price of GT5. This is a consequence of so many copies of GT5 being traded in.

You can't really blame these average gamers who have traded GT5 in. The problem with GT5 is the gameplay is very outdated. These days gamers expect alot more but unfortunately PD/Kaz are still living in the past. As Kaz has admitted he rarely looks at what the competition is offering and this in my opinion is why GT5 is years behind some other racing games.

Grinding in single player mode is something many don't want to do anymore. This was okay back in the day before broadband because there wasn't anything else to do. These days gamers expect career leaderboards so they can at least compare there times with their friends. The fact that licences, A Spec doesn't have leaderboards is incredible these days. Even the likes of TDU 2 has a leaderboard for each single player event including friends leaderboards.

 

[geo1098]

We are all PD fans and a lot of us have played since GT1 on the first Playstation. There is just general disappointment because GT5 is console racing fondue. Great fun and attention to detail but not a cohesive experience. Smattering of tracks and cars and races (that don't change in difficulty if replayed) with brake checking AI. Hot lapping is awesome in a correctly tuned RM ZR1 or R10 but that is about all I get out of it.

Forza4 looks to be a true challenger this time around and worth checking out. F1 2011 will provide a much better F1 experience than whatever PD was trying to accomplish with giving us two Ferrari F1s and four actual F1 tracks. (I realize they don't have the license but GT5's effort was poorly thought out.) For the more serious sim racer rFactor2 will be available this year.

 

[Milldrum]

I bought a PS1 when GT1 came out. Bought a PS2 when GT3 came out. Bought a PS3 just before GT5 was to be released. plus other GT titles in between.

I only play GT5 at the moment. I have a Flickr account now with a few GT5 photos. I have a separate email address, just for me. I own and operate a USB stick and headset. I give virtual stuff to people all over the world. I download their custom tracks and drive them over and over. I lend my cars to anyone that needs/wants them. I have a medium that enables regular contact with my Brother who lives far away.

All stuff I wouldn't have done without PD. So thank you Kaz and thank you PD.

 

[Mac K]

I bought a PS1 when GT1 came out. Bought a PS2 when GT3 came out. Bought a PS3 just before GT5 was to be released. plus other GT titles in between.

I only play GT5 at the moment. I have a Flickr account now with a few GT5 photos. I have a separate email address, just for me. I own and operate a USB stick and headset. I give virtual stuff to people all over the world. I download their custom tracks and drive them over and over. I lend my cars to anyone that needs/wants them. I have a medium that enables regular contact with my Brother who lives far away.

All stuff I wouldn't have done without PD. So thank you Kaz and thank you PD.

That's the spirit!

 

[IceMan PJN]

OK, the game was not everything that you expected, its not completed and there is some delays. but its happening because they want perfection, they released the game this way because there was a lot of pressure on them.

They could work like a lot of studios around which releases 2+ games a year just to take your money, but they don't want money they want perfection

You tried to slight Turn 10, but Turn 10 actually produces better quality work in two years than what PD did in longer.

Also, you talk about how they're improving it, but there's a lot of issues people have with the game that just won't ever be improved, like 80% of the car's graphics and those of several of the tracks, as well. It also lacks options and features that were really necessary just to put it more on par with the competition, rather than these things being unreasonable expectations. The game lacked common-sense staples like fast forward and rewind options for replays, which is an absolutely absurd thing to lack.

Don't misunderstand me. I still like GT5, and spent maybe a couple hundred hours with it. I just don't like ignorant defense from the GTFDL. There's also a point to being vocal about the game's faults: that if enough people make enough noise about what PD did wrong, they can catch wind of it and maybe not make the same mistakes in the future. Thusly, people complaining are helping to make GT6 a better product, while people blindly defending a game's shortcomings are working to hold the franchise down. Congratulations on doing your best to slowly kill Gran Turismo.

 

[Astro-Racer]

Like I explained the incredibly low trade in price of GT5.

GT5 is still full price, here in the UK £35-40.

Considering Forza 3 was £19 two weeks after release, at my local GAME. I would say GT5 doing well enough to be kept at full price.

 

[Spagetti69]

GT5 is still full price, here in the UK £35-40.

Considering Forza 3 was £19 two weeks after release, at my local GAME. I would say GT5 doing well enough to be kept at full price.

GAME. Are you serious.

Manic miner is £40 there.

 

[McClarenDesign]

You tried to slight Turn 10, but Turn 10 actually produces better quality work in two years than what PD did in longer.

Different? Yes. Better? Matter of opinion.

Personally, having played both, I find GT5 looks better and is more challenging than any of the Forzas, but that's just my opinion.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Again, criticism is welcome, when civil and in it's proper place. We don't need more of these threads when we have a Feedback section that works just fine.

 

[SoCal Senator]

Cheese and rice! Another complaint forum, just what we need.

Did you whine to General Motors when your real life dream car ('85 Geo Metro with a fart can muffler and those ridiculous neon wiper blade covers) finally broke down? You were SOOO convinced those things would make it run just like in Fast and Furious! "Look at me! I'm like Vin Diesel cuz my ride sounds like a lawnmower!!!"

So shut the front door and quit complaining. Enjoy the dang game and all it has to offer. If you don't like it, don't freakin' play it!

-- The preceding advertisement was paid for by the "Trump in '12" Campaign

 

[FishHunters]

You tried to slight Turn 10, but Turn 10 actually produces better quality work in two years than what PD did in longer.
Thusly, people complaining are helping to make GT6 a better product, while people blindly defending a game's shortcomings are working to hold the franchise down. Congratulations on doing your best to slowly kill Gran Turismo.

1. Imagine what turn 10 could have done if they took 5 years to develop.
2. Exactly! Hopefully criticism is helping GT6 be a better product.

GT5 is still full price, here in the UK £35-40.

Considering Forza 3 was £19 two weeks after release, at my local GAME. I would say GT5 doing well enough to be kept at full price.

I wouldn't consider after release price, particularly on these two titles, to be a fair measure of the game. GT5 had already developed a HUGE fanbase. This was probably one of the most anticipated releases of all time. Also consider how many copies were shipped (650 million) that HAVEN'T been sold. Retailers are still trying to recoup their cost and turn a profit! I bet a LOT of retailers bought into the hype and order a substantial # of copies.

Again, criticism is welcome, when civil and in it's proper place. We don't need more of these threads when we have a Feedback section that works just fine.

That's a fanboy respose McClaren. "Don't post anymore of these threads were I can see them and be offended. Hide them in the feedback section.

I'm pretty cautious with my money. I'll give GT6 a try after the reviews. If it hasn't improved then I'll drop a dime to buy an Xbox to try Forza; which I REALLY don't want to do.

 

[Tornado]

Also consider how many copies were shipped (650 million) that HAVEN'T been sold.

Er, what?

 

[FelipeMartins]

 

[dice1998]

6 years is rushing?

 

[bass264]

I hope that when GT6 is released it barely sells and PD loses all it's funding since they are clearly too incompetent to make a game that has the features fans have been asking for years. I think the reason why GT5 was released not finished was because they didn't have enough people working to model the cars so it would take less time to create more cars and also the same for modeling new tracks. Kaz is a idiot.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I hope that when GT6 is released it barely sells and PD loses all it's funding since they are clearly too incompetent to make a game that has the features fans have been asking for for years.

 

[Milldrum]

I hope that when GT6 is released it barely sells and PD loses all it's funding since they are clearly too incompetent to make a game that has the features fans have been asking for for years. I think the reason why GT5 was released not finished was because they didn't have enough people working to model the cars so it would take less time to create more cars and also the same for modeling new tracks. Kaz is a idiot.

I think 'is a idiot.' says something here.

I don't hope it's a flop. I hope it's the best, most complete game ever. Then I'll get my money's worth. My playing time so far for GT5 has given me my money's worth.

 

[FishHunters]

Sorry, make that 68 million copies "shipped" not sold.

 

[FishHunters]

I hope that when GT6 is released it barely sells and PD loses all it's funding since they are clearly too incompetent to make a game that has the features fans have been asking for years. I think the reason why GT5 was released not finished was because they didn't have enough people working to model the cars so it would take less time to create more cars and also the same for modeling new tracks. Kaz is a idiot.

Definitely wouldn't take it that far. The hope is they've learned from their mistakes and GT6 will be phenomenal!

 

[bass264]

I think 'is a idiot.' says something here.

I don't hope it's a flop. I hope it's the best, most complete game ever. Then I'll get my money's worth. My playing time so far for GT5 has given me my money's worth.

I play GT5 online frequently but the A spec and B spec mode don't have enough events. If the # of copies of GT5 sold wouldn't have been so high then PD would have done something by now to grab our attention and $$$. All I want them to do is be like any other game studio when it comes down to communication between the fans and the developers. Because PD clearly ignores constructive criticism GT6 will be a guaranteed failure, less people will fall for the trailers that will make the game seem like it's awesome before it's released. I'm hoping that they will prove me wrong, but I firmly believe that I'm right. They are capable of making a GT game better then every racing game ever released but if they aren't willing to increase their workforce and change their top priorities to making more premium cars and tracks then the next generation of GT games will be horrible.

 

[FishHunters]

I hope that when GT6 is released it barely sells and PD loses all it's funding since they are clearly too incompetent to make a game that has the features fans have been asking for years. I think the reason why GT5 was released not finished was because they didn't have enough people working to model the cars so it would take less time to create more cars and also the same for modeling new tracks. Kaz is a idiot.

I play GT5 online frequently but the A spec and B spec mode don't have enough events. If the # of copies of GT5 sold wouldn't have been so high then PD would have done something by now to grab our attention and $$$. All I want them to do is be like any other game studio when it comes down to communication between the fans and the developers. Because PD clearly ignores constructive criticism GT6 will be a guaranteed failure, less people will fall for the trailers that will make the game seem like it's awesome before it's released. I'm hoping that they will prove me wrong, but I firmly believe that I'm right.

I think you're gonna be right about that. Kaz strikes me as someone who's going to do what he wants to do believing he's the expert and if WE don't like it then something is wrong with US.

 

[Astro-Racer]

Should this site change it's name to Forza Planet?

Just a thought :/

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I think you're gonna be right about that. Kaz strikes me as someone who's going to do what he wants to do believing he's the expert and if WE don't like it then something is wrong with US.

That's one thing that annoys me about Kaz. He doesn't want to pay attention to the competition. Like I said in another thread, he must think it's still 2001 or something. When GT1 and GT3 first came out, they both raised the bar for racing games by a lot. But it's 2011 now and racing games have changed a lot since then. GT5 is behind in MANY areas that other racing games have succeeded in. Kaz seriously needs to open his eyes and see that.

 

[bass264]

I think you're gonna be right about that. Kaz strikes me as someone who's going to do what he wants to do believing he's the expert and if WE don't like it then something is wrong with US.

Exactly, Kaz thinks he knows everything but developers from other game studios got one thing right that he has almost never gotten right: doing what the fans want. Kaz clearly is deaf to logic and reason.
Now I understand since the age of 15 he's wanted to create a great racing game which he did until GT5, but he needs to understand the importance of communication with the fans. Nearly every good game or even the games that don't have many players, the developers read about what fans want and try to implicate their ideas so the game can be more enjoyable for the consumer. Kaz doesn't care for the consumer or how a consumer wants his game to be improved. He only cares for the money and that the game eventually becomes his "perfect vision" of GT. He's selfish because he thinks that if he makes a game that's his vision that we all will automatically be satisfied with the game. I don't mean to get angry and irrational but clearly his priorities are ****** up, and if the Gran Turismo series starts to decline from this point on,(which I think it already has) then it's his fault for having the wrong priorities. Kaz isn't doing it for us anymore, he's doing it so he can have more supercars in real life then there are in the game. Only the cars that he actually likes sound good in the game. I bet any member on GTPlanet if they had the opportunity could create a game studio company and create a better GT game with the top features being what the fans actually want so the game would be enjoyable and replayable for years...💡
Just my thoughts,
bass264

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Exactly, Kaz thinks he knows everything but developers from other game studios got one thing right that he has almost never gotten right: doing what the fans want. Kaz clearly is deaf to logic and reason.
Now I understand since the age of 15 he's wanted to create a great racing game which he did until GT5, but he needs to understand the importance of communication with the fans. Nearly every good game or even the games that don't have many players, the developers read about what fans want and try to implicate their ideas so the game can be more enjoyable for the consumer. Kaz doesn't care for the consumer or how a consumer wants his game to be improved. He only cares for the money and that the game eventually becomes his "perfect vision" of GT. He's selfish because he thinks that if he makes a game that's his vision that we all will automatically be satisfied with the game. I don't mean to get angry and irrational but clearly his priorities are ****** up, and if the Gran Turismo series starts to decline from this point on,(which I think it already has) then it's his fault for having the wrong priorities. Kaz isn't doing it for us anymore, he's doing it so he can have more supercars in real life then there are in the game. Only the cars that he actually likes sound good in the game. I bet any member on GTPlanet if they had the opportunity could create a game studio company and create a better GT game with the top features being what the fans actually want so the game would be enjoyable and replayable for years...💡
Just my thoughts,
bass264

The nerve.