Super Car Challenge

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hun200kmh
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I only ever played the Grid demo, not the full game, but judging by that, there is nothing similar about the physics of Grid & Shift. Grid is an all-out arcade game, with turn & pivot physics. Shift has excellent physics up to about 80% of performance. The final 20%, which (as jj is saying) is the part that counts in actual track racing, is screwed up by a super-grip assist (SGA) that kicks in at that point.

The way this happens suggests to me, that (unlike other NFS games) Shift started out as a full sim created by a developer with a rep for real sims, & then had this SGA added to make it more accessible (even on the "sim" setting) to the average gamer. I can't help feeling that they could remove that SGA & then Shift would be the best sim available on the PS3.

As jj says, each developer takes a slightly different approach to re-creating the feel of RL driving. To me Shift is much more realistic feeling than FC/SCC up to that 80%, but then it falls apart, whereas FC/SCC is inferior to Shift in every way (graphics, sound, FFB etc.), but unlike Shift it is consistent right up to the 100% of performance, which in the end makes it a better sim experience.

Unfortunately, as I already said, there 's really no chance that Eutechnyx will be able to put out a more polished version of their game, as they just don't have the resources available. SCC barely offers any more cars or tracks than FC, let alone improved graphics. On the other hand SMS could put out a new (or patched) version of Shift that got rid of the SGA for those that want a more realistic sim.

Frustrating ... :grumpy:
 
Peter, I don't know if you've seen this topic on the Eutechnyx board: http://forums.eutechnyx.com/index.php/topic,1383.0.html But something is brewing. I get the feeling that they're working on something big and it doesn't involve System 3. And I think with this next game coming out, we may FINALLY see Eutechnyx unleashed and unveiled.

At least, that's my hope.
 
Biggles
Hadn't seen that. Damn! I shouldn't have spent the money on SCC! ;)
Click to expand...

I'm telling you ... buy SCC and ... THIS!

341731ps_500h.jpg
 
Today I played GT5 Prologue for the first time since buying SCC and I have to say, I find SCC's cars a lot more realistic in terms of grip. I was able to do a 1:55 or something around Fuji in a tuned VW Golf, that's only around 30 secs slower than an F1 car would do it in. I imagine the difference in real life would be more like 60 seconds. Though I do enjoy driving round Eiger Nordwand in some of the slower cars using the clutch (it's really good fun, and a pity that SCC doesn't make use of the G25's clutch), the cars seem a lot more forgiving IMO than what they would be IRL, which I feel SCC simulates better. After playing GT5P for an hour and then going back and playing SCC for an hour, now that i'm writing up about it, my greater urge is to play SCC again rather than GT5P.
 
Hun200kmh
I'm telling you ... buy SCC and ... THIS!

image of superstars v8
Click to expand...

Sorry but that game is absolutely awful. I had picked both it and SCC up and Superstars v8 was put on ebay a few days later. The physics fairly much felt like grid. Ontop of that the wheel would provide little feedback on the cars behaviour (in contrast to FC and SCC). As well as this it was buggy as hell. I had to restart the game every 1-2 races due to the wheel loosing all feedback at random. I remember also having problems with the game freezing.
 
J-PaP
Sorry but that game is absolutely awful. I had picked both it and SCC up and Superstars v8 was put on ebay a few days later. The physics fairly much felt like grid. Ontop of that the wheel would provide little feedback on the cars behaviour (in contrast to FC and SCC). As well as this it was buggy as hell. I had to restart the game every 1-2 races due to the wheel loosing all feedback at random. I remember also having problems with the game freezing.
Click to expand...

That is probably due to whell issues cause i've played with a d-pad all the way to the platinum(while i was waiting for scc and shift to come out) and never suffered those bugs.I don't really think the game was awful and physics are better than grid but never the less it's not a simulator,nor a great game that you must buy(speccialy if you compare it with scc) but i'd good time playing it for a month or so and would classify it like a good looking arcade game with some very interesting tracks you don't find in any other game so far particculary Portimao the awsome and mytichal Kyalami and all those italian tracks i didn't even know like maggione...but if you're looking for simulation don't buy it or you be dissapointed...👎
 
Since I spoke too much about this game already :D I will only add to my previous posting about it ... UKOG-Jonboy's review. It's a honest review, shows good and bad about the game.

[YOUTUBEHD]HxJUAyEaDnI[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
J-PaP
I had to restart the game every 1-2 races due to the wheel loosing all feedback at random.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is bit lame, but (at least for me) it's not necessary to restart the whole game, just the current event you are driving in.
 
I think I used to solve it (the ocasional loss of FFB) simply by unplug-plug again the wheel to the USB port.
 
Hun200kmh
I think I used to solve it (the ocasional loss of FFB) simply by unplug-plug again the wheel to the USB port.
Click to expand...

That does work if you are just doing a single race. But when you have just completed qualifying and about to race you can't just quit the race and retry. It will move onto the next race so you are forced to restart the game.
 
Ok, so I cracked open my SCC Christmas present a few days early (if you happen to run into my mum in London over the next few weeks, please don't mention this to her! ;)). Here are my initial impressions (of course, I had spent a little while in the beta previously).

The graphics are pretty awful. I always felt that the major problem with FC gaining wider popularity was the artificial-looking graphics. However, the graphics in FC, while not very "realistic" were quite attractive, with a lot of texture & detail. The graphics in SCC look cheap & nasty, although admittedly less artificial-looking in colour than FC's. The car models are definitely inferior to FC & the replays are really bad.

The physics/FFB seem pretty similar to FC's. I've only driven a few of the cars - I bought the 348 Challenge immediately to compare directly with FC - but so far, any differences from FC would seem to be marginal. One thing I've noticed is that the DBR, which seemed to wonder around a bit on the straights in the beta (which was one of the worrying things about the beta), still seems to do that in the full game, but fortunately, none of the other cars I've tried does that.

I haven't tried online yet. I gather there are still lag issues. Honestly, if there hasn't been a big improvement over FC, then I think the whole production of SCC has been a complete waste of time.

The AI that I've encountered in the early Challenge events is pretty appalling: even on the Elite setting there seem to be enormous pile-ups in the first couple of corners & the crashing noises are terrible. I don't remember the same AI bottle-neck collisions in FC, but it's been a while since I made my way through the Challenge series. I don't like the fact that you can't turn the racing line off in anything other than the Elite setting, & it seems odd that the Elite setting offers 50% (50%!!!) chance of racing in the rain. Also, the weird way in which the AI sets crazy-fast qualifying laps, but then drives much slower in the actual race seems to have been carried over from FC.

The continuous "split-time" reading is a nice feature - I actually think this is the best way of time-trialing. It's less obsessive/compulsive than a ghost car, but gives information about where you're gaining or losing time.

I miss the superb visuals & sound of Shift, especially the cockpit view. The "dash-view" in SCC is better than the "driver-view", but still doesn't do as good a job of conveying speed as the old "wind-shield" view familiar from FC. I also miss the bumps & "grabby" braking of Shift (& the clutch) - SCC, like FC, feels too flat & smooth in comparison. On the other hand, the physics in SCC, like FC, have a consistency & logic that actually rewards consistent, skilful driving. It remains annoying to have each Ps3 racing game game offering bits & pieces of the total sim experience, but no single game coming close to putting it all together.

All-in-all, while it will be fun to get back online with the old FC crew, I just don't see SCC as a worthwhile successor to FC. I still think we would have been much better served by having (the originally promised) updates, fixes & DLC for FC, because SCC actually comes across as a cheaper follow-up to FC rather than a substantive improvement.
 
I've been very critical of the graphics in SCC as well. I think they're a step down from FC. But to be fair, the fact that the camera is constantly shaking during the replays in FC (actually in Shift as well for that matter) helps to cover some of the graphic deficiencies.

But can you really honestly say, especially as a wheel user, that you don't notice a difference between the 348 going from one to the other. When I go back and forth the difference is immediately apparent. The interior graphics of the cars in SCC is better, the FFB has a much smaller deadzone and the general physics of the cars seems more realistic in SCC. The grip is more consistent and throttle input easier to modulate in slow speed conditions. It's not a huge difference but there's been considerable tweaking--more apparent in some cars than others. Maybe you need to let it work in.

If in another 2-3 weeks you still feel the same way, you can always ring your mum and tell her to exchange it. :lol:
 
I'd say there's no question that SCC is in some way an improvement. The real question is whether it's enough of an improvement to justify a brand new title.

I think it is. Personally, I can't see how the graphics are worse; they are at least on a par for me. The cockpit sounds are a bit better (to me sounds like they just added to the cockpit view a very short reverb with strong rebound - i.e. like being in a bathroom with cold, bare walls!).

Not sure if the modelling of the cars is any different, but the colours are definitely better. In FC, the difference between a particular colour, and a darker shade of that colour, seemed like reducing the colour-knob on an old CRT TV! It just looked like less colour, rather than a different colour. SCC is much better with the colours - now they look real! And the lighting is definitely better. Have a look at a metallic black Enzo, or metalic black 599XX - looks super!

The physics engine hasn't been touched at all, from what I can see. This is the one thing that needed to be changed. But I suppose, the physics engine is such a huge development that SCC was never gonig to be resourced enough to re-make it.

Circuits: This is a very important one for me, as in FC there were some very silly peculiarities in some circuits. Spa - the top of Eau Rouge and the whole bus stop section was completely wrong. Autoclub Road was improved for SCC, as was Infineon. Many extra penalty zones were included, which is important.

On the other hand, putting the reverse of the old Misano layout is just the wrong decision. If it were a bigger developer, this would not have been the decision; they either would have made the new circuit, or left it the old way. Putting a reverse of the old layout is just such an arseways idea - it's just nothing, in between both of the true solutions.

The AI is definitely much worse in SCC. In FC I actually had a few good races with the computer. But SCC is just pointless. The cars may as well not be there.

Biggles: Without the online play, I would never play this thing - the online play is the only thing which gives this game purpose for me. So join in for some practice races during this week, or anytime, and hopefully you'll see with some good clean races this game is probably the best sim on the PS3 at the moment.
 
Well, what did you expect, that guy doesn't seem to be impressed with any kind of good physics around him ... if I was there I wouldn't be not even mildly interested in SCC's physics ... would you? :dopey:


:cool:
 
I haven't really gone back & forth between FC & SCC to compare the handling - there may be differences, but they don't seem to be substantial (well, Alan doesn't seem to to think there are any significant differences). I'm not sure about the dead-zone. There is a really big difference between Shift with the G25 & with the Fanatec GT3 RS wheel, I haven't given SCC a try with the Fanatec yet, but the dead-zone in SCC (such as it is) doesn't bother me - I'm pretty used to dealing with it from FC by now.

Graphics is a matter of opinion. I would say I prefer the look of FC - it was quirky, arcadey, but in its own peculiar way, quite attractive. SCC just looks cheap to me.

I'll play SCC online & enjoy it, but really all my original scepticism about a quick follow-up to FC seems to be justified. I'd be just as happy continuing to play FC, especially if there had been some extra cars/tracks added.

I still think we could have brought pressure to bear on System 3 to update FC, if the Portuguese contingent hadn't bailed on us. :sly:
 
:lol:

Do you wanna go and check who got BETA TESTER Status first? :sly:

Anyway, I was almost forced to buy Shift and SCC by an ambulance driver, so don't blame me LOL
 
What a dismal review from the SRT guys. They really don't seem to get Eutechyx physics.

I guess my question is: is SCC significantly better than FC in any way? If it isn't then I really think it's a bit of a waste of time. I don't want to dump on SCC, as I've only just got it, but I felt from the first time that they announced SCC, that it was a really questionable project.

Imagine if GT5 arrives & it isn't a signifcant improvement over GT5P! :sick: That would be the end of my PS3 sim racing career, I think. :indiff:
 
I completely understand what Biggles is thinking. Just after downloading the DLC for FC, I heard about SCC on the way. That seemed a bit strange, releasing a new game while FC should still be alive. After getting the full version of SCC, I was repeatedly having a feeling of it seeming like a big rush job; a quick release to generate some revenue from a financially problematic development, it seemed (and probably was). So many of the big problems of FC were carried over to SCC. A few non-Ferrari cars thrown in, couple of extra circuits - just seemed like an add-on for SCC.

Of the brand new content in SCC, it's not all good. More than half of the new cars' handling is pretty suspect (Veyron, SLR etc). Actually, the problem cars mostly seem to be the non-Ferrari cars.

But the main point is, this seems to me to be the best around at the moment, for proper racing. If GT5 was out now there may be no place for SCC. Or if Codemasters did a proper Race Driver 4, it would have wiped the competition clear!
 
A major part of my argument pro FC vs GT5P, was based on the fact that FC was available to play at the time, & had way more content than GT5P, whereas, GT5 was still off in the distant future. As it happens GT5 is still off in the distant future, but I would find it really hard to put forward any compelling argument for the average GTPer to pick up SCC. I feel that System 3 has lost all credibility now - they seem to be completely dependent on the gullibility of the Irish & the Portuguese. ;) (and myself... :dopey:)
 
I'm convinced beyond a doubt that at least some of the cars in SCC have been tweaked. Drive the 550M in both games and tell me you don't notice a difference. Take the 355 Berlinetta around the hairpin at Montreal and apply power. Drive the 575 GTC through the Maggots-Beckets complex and tell me you can't notice a difference. Mario was able to notice it as well. Perhaps it really is all down to revised FFB/pedal mapping and that's why Alan doesn't notice it? :confused: But to me it was immediately apparent. But even the shift dynamics and artificial clutch slip of the 348 Challenge are different.

The SRT review was a joke. I agree with their complaints about the AI and several of their criticisms. And I normally have a lot of respect for those guys. But how in the hell could they compliment SCC's graphics (something we nearly all agree is lacking) and yet complain about the FFB and vehicle physics (something nearly all of us agree is the one absolutely shining feature of this game). I just don't get it.
 
What was particularly strange was that they criticised SCC for not having much of a 'feeling' of the cars and that you can't feel the road underneath you - both points I completely disagree with. They then go on to say it would be a half decent entry level sim for a complete novice. I think that's also a very strange assessment as most people's complaints about FC and SCC who didn't get it were that the physics were very demanding. GT5 Prologue is an infinitely easier game to play with a wheel than SCC is. SCC in my opinion is the most 'hardcore' of the PS3 'sims'.

Also, although the graphics aren't astounding, they could have at least appreciated the cockpit view for the amount of detail in it but I seem to remember them even criticising that. Not as many polygons as in GT5P for sure, but I think it's every bit as detailed inside the cockpits.
 
I wonder if those of us here in the FC/SCC 'fanclub' just see things differently or if the guys from SRT are just in an alternate reality universe. I know a few people who were put off by the deadzone in FC and just didn't like it. But aside from those few exceptions, nearly everybody I ever spoke to who's played FC/SCC with a wheel agrees that is has arguably the best FFB in PS3 land.
 
Are we still discussing Jessica Lopez's review?

Well then, this is what I think about it:

1. No deadzone

2. noticeable bumpyness and I suspect well modulated weight transfer

3. graphics aren't the best out there, but they're pretty decent. The choice of colours is debatable though

4. Overall, good physics

5. Don't care much about sound but since I didn't really notice it I guess it isn't disturbing or distracting

6. No ideas on career progression or learning curve, might be hard, might be easy

7. AI should be decent, also not sure.

Overall score: 7/10
 
Hun200kmh
Are we still discussing Jessica Lopez's review?

Well then, this is what I think about it:

1. No deadzone

2. noticeable bumpyness and I suspect well modulated weight transfer

3. graphics aren't the best out there, but they're pretty decent. The choice of colours is debatable though

4. Overall, good physics

5. Don't care much about sound but since I didn't really notice it I guess it isn't disturbing or distracting

6. No ideas on career progression or learning curve, might be hard, might be easy

7. AI should be decent, also not sure.

Overall score: 7/10
Click to expand...

Is that your review or what you suspect Jessica Lopez' thoughts are? If so, you're being pretty generous, as I don't think she has any thoughts on the game whatsoever.
 
After a couple more hours in SCC last night I would add these points.

Positive:

The 330 P4 put a big smile on my face - really interesting car to drive.

The Riviera track is nice.

The close-to-dashboard view is actually quite useable - much, much better than the driver view.

The graphics, as usual, become less important the more time you spend in-game & start to accept the "alternate reality".

It's nice to have the additional functionality in the replay mode.

Negative:

The AI is just atrocious - it seems to be far worse than FC & more clueless even than Shift. Every race, there are massive pile-ups at every corner of the first lap.

In Challenge mode on Elite setting, I often end up qualifying 16th, because the AI qualifying times are so fast. Then in the actual race, my times are way faster than the AIs.

Every Elite race I've been in so far has been in the rain!

As far as the SRT review is concerned: their comments remind me of the negative views of FC expressed by some GTPers. We all know that there's nothing arbitrary about FC/SCC's physics - every subtle adjustment of input affects your laptimes. It suggests to me that they did not spend enough time with SCC to properly get to grips with the physics model. I can't comment on PC sims, but I believe FC/SCC's physics offer more complexity & depth than any other PS3 racing game, except perhaps GT5P, while offering a more satisfying "feel" than GT5P.
 
I agree with just about everything you wrote, Biggles. And I'm glad you're coming around. I think the more time you spend with SCC the more you're going to like it. Graphics and known glitches aside, it's an improvement on FC in a lot of smaller, subtle ways. When I had been playing Shift for a while and went back to play SCC, it felt so bland and austere; like staring at a bare wall. But after a few days I felt that the game simply concentrates on what's important and now when I go back to Shift I find the screen to be rather "busy".

The 'dash' view has been my view of choice and I love it. The ONLY problem is that you can't see the mirrors so you constantly have to look behind you. I actually put a suggestion on the Eutechnyx forum that the game gives you the option to universally use the terrific 3rd person perspective look back view that you have when driving in dash cam. But I doubt this, or any other major changes, will ever be implemented. I could be wrong but I really think System 3 had much bigger plans for SCC and the project was scaled back when the financial realities became apparent. In this sense, I think we'll see what Eutechnyx can really do when their new title comes out. I think a lot of what we see in SCC (or rather, what we don't see) is down to System 3's budget. If you go through the forums, they alluded to a lot of features than never actually made the cut. Not being able to save the replays or view a replay from an on-lie race is one in particular that annoys me. It would have been such a great addition.

FWIW, the AI was actually BETTER before the last patch. Whatever they did in the last update turned the AI into a bunch of buffoons. With some cars and some tracks, every one of them will drive off the road at the same point. The 330 at Riviera is one of the worst examples. At any given time there's always at least one AI car hitting the Armco. We know Eutechnyx is working on a new patch and it's a big one. I'm sure things will be better in a few weeks. Not the least of which is on-line collision handling.
 

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