Tame the Mountain: TT Isle of Man Launches March 6 on Consoles

Discussion in 'Console & PC Gaming' started by GTPNewsWire, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk

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    I've jumped in with both feet to learning the whole track in one go, and a 1000cc bike, with MT, Low ABS and Traction, Wheelie and Stoppie off, and no corner info. It's a steep learning curve.. but that's the entire attraction for me. I'm currently in limbo... I'm hesitating a lot, backing off quite often, and dropping 5-6 seconds per section where I don't need too... but I'm still going too fast that bike will step out under braking, or simply not change direction fast enough if I've misjudged something. 80% of crashes are because I don't know the course, the rest are failure to control the bike when I do know where I should be going.
     
  2. Shredder83

    Shredder83

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    Anyone know when the TT races are unlocked in the career mode.? On season 3 but still not had a chance to race the supersport or superbike full TT
     
  3. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    Is losing those 5 or 6 seconds not better than crashing? The line is absolutely key with motorcycles, especially given the speed of direction changes. You ride at the speed that guarantees you hit your chosen line (or at least allows you to learn it first), and go from there, I'd say.

    Of course, it's much more fun to nail it...

    I almost picked this up today, but put off by what seems like reports of finicky controls.
     
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  4. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk

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    A crash is about 10 seconds, so it's a balance... how often will I crash versus how often am I just going too slow... the problem is, if I go slower more often, I'd possibly just lose less time by catapulting myself into the scenery from time to time.

    Progress is reasonable give the limited amount of time I've been able to put into the game so far. I've recorded the lap times from flying laps to track my progress...

    chart (2).png chart (3).png
     
  5. Sean YZF

    Sean YZF

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    I still haven't completed an incident free lap, so still a low 20 mins.
    Only getting 2-3 hrs in due to life/work distractions.
    I've taken the next step by ditching the racing line, something to do with the fps vs gps vs csi & never mind the rfr. My eye's still water on 3rd lap
    I do have the wife on stand by with eyedrops tho. :-)
     
  6. crooky369

    crooky369

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    I'm assuming MPH should be KPH in your graph unless you're some motorcycling god?
     
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  7. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk

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    Ooops, yup.. ;)
     
  8. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Picked this up today and enjoying my first few career races.

    The sense of speed is good and the controls are not as touchy as I had feared they may be, still managed to bin it a lot.

    Worth the purchase so far.
     
  9. eran0004

    eran0004

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    But you would play a game at 12 Hz?

    It's funny how you have to keep going back to 10 fps, while the discussion is about 30 vs 60, nothing else. And it doesn't matter how much latencies you add on top of the cake, because it's still only a difference of 0.017 seconds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  10. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    Warning, gratuitous post about the sorry state of input latency!
    No, the bigger picture is not about 30 Hz vs 60 Hz at all. It's about latency / responsiveness, pure and simple. That was my contribution from the start (go look).

    I advocate end-to-end latency should be minimised by all means available, including framerate. I personally wish for 120 Hz in combination with a reduction in OS, FS, driver and hardware interface overheads to approach the magic figure of (preferably well) under 20 milliseconds, not the 100+ it currently sits at (for PC hardware; many modern-ish TVs are much, much worse).

    You
    keep mentioning 10 Hz, and I've already explained why that is significant: 100 ms. If your latency is at a 100 milliseconds baseline plus frame delay, then reducing the frame delay by less than this amount will be less and less noticeable each time (but still noticeable, as you agree: it's "smoother"). 2 Hz to 10 Hz is a reduction in latency of 400 milliseconds (600 to 200), which is a 300% improvement. 30 to 60 Hz is 130 to 117 ms, only 12% improvement. That is why total latency should be your focus, not a naïve half-understanding of "framerates" and "reaction times" and "smoothness".


    Your original statement that a 250 ms "reaction time" means that individual frames at 30 or 60 fps are negligible is erroneous on a cognitive basis, but you retracted that anyway.

    Your statement that 30 fps effectively has no delay because it is "smooth" was refuted by the source we discussed in detail. It was never intended to demonstrate the "superiority" of 60 Hz over 30 Hz (sorry), not least because the information in the test is capped at approximately 3 Hz. But cursor position aliasing still breaks feedback (which is why people like the responsiveness of 120+ Hz displays on PCs, despite it having minimal impact on a 100 ms end-to-end latency figure).


    Furthermore, I provided a discussion on framerates in iRacing (here), where triple digits are desired, or as high as can be locked out (effectively targeting a minimum framerate through graphics settings.)

    In that link was also a reference to a 2011 book that states 30-60 fps is a minimum, with higher rates being "desirable" (but they had already in that chapter cited the great expense of the necessary computation hardware due to the complexity of the simulations, and how that is a barrier even to "interactive" framerates). This in the context of road network engineering visualisation, and medicinal and psychological research using driving simulations (e.g. to inform tuition), which generally have much lower demands on reactions and cognitive functions than competitive racing, at least on a moment-to-moment basis (they are fun, though).

    In that same link is an explanation of how they disable frame buffering by default (not at all common) in order to reduce latency, despite the fact that it will inevitably increase framerate variation (see: frame buffering). They also advise the use of a framerate cap (defaults to 84, probably a factor of the physics rate - because aliasing!), for this very reason.


    I think you need to spend some time to understand the real implications of end-to-end latency and realise that 0.017 seconds is a misleading figure by at least a factor of six for most modern setups. You cannot substantiate your assertion that any reduction from 100+ milliseconds / 0.1+ seconds makes no difference, especially when the industry disagrees with you (20 millisecond target, some could go further). It may be a less noticeable difference, especially in the case of TVs, but currently that's a hardware-dependent problem and we are talking in the general case.

    On top of this, gaming latency was not an issue in the classic days of consoles and arcades. It is only an issue with complex software, including that embedded in hardware such as TVs. Games have, as a result, become less responsive - as any MAME head will tell you. This can be remedied with hardware and software collaboration (ironically by making it more complex), and it doesn't need the waters muddying with half truths and no understanding. Once the other overheads are reduced, I bet higher framerates will have a much bigger impact on people's experiences, too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  11. Bush_Killa-73

    Bush_Killa-73

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    Had to check this wasn't a thread about Framerates rather than a discussion about a game I'm actually interested in.

    Come on guys FFS's. Get a (chat) room!
     
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  12. eran0004

    eran0004

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    The topic was 60 vs 30 fps though. If you want to talk about latency we can do that, but I suggest we do it in a dedicated thread, because it's not really relevant here.
     
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  13. chris4652009

    chris4652009

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    How big was day one patch please? Any further updates on handling?

    Thank you.
     
  14. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    The 30fps vs 60fps discussion has no place here, please either stop or move to a dedicated thread for it.
     
  15. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    And to get things back on track, a few screengrabs, I really do wish this had a photomode.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    It is relevant in the sense that it has already impacted someone's decision whether to buy the console or PC version. It is making me think twice. Especially if driver / API tweaks and so on are forthcoming in the near future, or if you want to get creative with registry tweaks and USB overclocking today! But we're not all as crazy as those beat'em-up guys...

    A suggestion: there is a report button on each post. You can also block (= hide the posts of) individual members on their profile page :)

    EDIT: A mod has spoken ;)

    Apparently not, as above.

    Anyway, who made you sole arbiter of the discussion? In my opinion, confining it to suit your personal interest is missing the point entirely (not least because you're wrong).

    It is all latency, first and foremost. Framerates contribute latency, and it is latency that changing framerates affects. You shouldn't argue something on the basis of your personally constrained understanding of the situation, only on the actual physical implications of the overall effect. We have great things to look forward to in reducing overall input lag, and it apparently won't affect you either way, so it's all good :tup:

    This game will run faster than 60 Hz on PC, so it was never even about that, except in your mind. The war is over, son; we need you to come home now.
     
  17. numbnuts70

    numbnuts70

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    I have noticed that times set on the Time attack mode, won't register on the online leaderboards every now and again.

    Very frustrating.

    Getting the jist of the delicacy needed with partial throttle for balancing the bike to increase relative speed on entry, apex and exit.

    The game just keeps getting better and better - I'm starting to put this disc in rather than GT Sport.
     
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  18. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    That foliage is pretty.

    This is an interesting part of motorcycle dynamics. The final drive effectively exerts a torque on the swinging arm, which alters the effective rear wheel "spring" rate, resulting in various effects. Riders in the real world do strange things like applying the rear brake and throttle at the same time, mid corner - it might effectively add extra "damping". Or it might just be to avoid the initial snatch of throttle pick-up.
     
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  19. Sean YZF

    Sean YZF

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    I'm still going without the racing line, so crashes have increased 10 fold, only snatching an hour or two here and there.
    It could be me being too rough with the steering, but I have a few issues with some of the handling aspects, the bike isn't doing what I expect, veering off into hedges etc, even with mild throttle no brakes. It's as if the centre of gravity of the bike suddenly shifts giving me totally unpredictable handling.
    I'll keep at it though. :-)
    On slightly off thread, no fps, spent the day spring cleaning my garage then picked up a friend's son's 1st proper road bike for a service and MOT. Nice example of a low milage K4 GSXR 6.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. imported_rik19

    imported_rik19

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    Wow then screengrabs are pretty amazing.. wow @Scaff
     
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  21. chris4652009

    chris4652009

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    Anyone please?
     
  22. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk

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    I didn't notice a day one patch at all. I bought on day two from PSN though.
     
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  23. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    It's not bad looking at all, which is why it really should have a photo mode.

    The sense of speed on it is amazing as well.

    No idea, but it's just under 20gig in total.
     
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  24. imported_rik19

    imported_rik19

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    I still havent got it yet, as amazon are out of stock, just wanted to know can you have a good look around the place while riding, can you move the camera in third person or is it just look behind etc..I like the idea of it being a proper place. Proper roads etc..
     
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  25. MatskiMonk

    MatskiMonk

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    Dude, just buy it from a conventional retailer!
     
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  26. Sean YZF

    Sean YZF

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    I pre ordered the game and it was downloaded in one package, so I don't think there was an immediate launch patch, or any since.
    Unfortunately you can't look around, would be great if it was, it's just a look behind on the ps4.
    I've put in a few more laps this evening, I'm getting more understanding of how the bikes handle in the game, fair play to the developers, they've done a good job. As other people have said on this thread, finesse on the controls is key to it.
    I've got my lap time to where it was before I turned the racing line off, another plus. ;-)
     
  27. imported_rik19

    imported_rik19

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    It`s dearer, :)
     
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  28. MeanElf

    MeanElf

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    There are other online retailers Rik - shops that sell cheaper than Game. Do a search and you'll be surprised.
     
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  29. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    My initial impressions:

     
  30. Bush_Killa-73

    Bush_Killa-73

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    Thank Christ for that! :gtpflag:

    Just ordered the game off 365games for about same amount I sold my games on eBay as they let you use PayPal. Really looking forward to this now.

    Thanks to everyone here for your constructive feedback about the game :tup:

    (Except those 2 banging on about fps)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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