The 13' Focus ST ruined by PD

You're not driving it properly, hope that helps
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http://s990.photobucket.com/user/AMD_knockhill2/media/MyMovie16_zps26930aae.mp4.html
 
Azure Flare
Because something like this pops up around here EVERY OTHER ****ING DAY, and it gets really annoying.
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I think what's really annoying is that someone sees an issue, and grandstands in a separate thread about it when there are perfectly good grouch threads in which they could further the entire discussion. This attention grabbing clogs the boards, pushing off a variety of tpoics I'd really like to see. Not 30 threads of "ZOMG GT6 is teh busted."
 
I don't think the gear ratios being off is a big deal. I doubt that has an impact on the car's performance. And if it does, I'm sure it can be fixed with the custom tranny.
 
Polsixe
In GT5 the McLaren F1 was way off on the gearbox and comparison to published performance figures, was able to tune to match road tests. 2010 Camaro was the same. It is only a $60 game and not an industrial/commercial/research product. Also, Ford etc may of had own reasons for not wanting an exact duplicate in the game.
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Are the gear ratios and speed per gear of the McLaren F1 correct in GT6?

If they are not, I'll be extremely pissed off. At least in GT5 I could more or less correct them with the custom transmission. Now there is this stupid instant-sequential-transmission and I won't be able to use the H-shifter.

Why PD takes away what players treasure the most? Choice. I know best how I want to play the game. I just want to drive my cars with accurate gear ratios and with my H-shifter. Is that too much to ask?
 
The current Focus uses a LOT of propietary technology to give it the real-life handling characteristics it has. An advanced differential and suspension mean it doesn't have that much in common with most cars.

Does anyone really think that with a game engine that is designed to handle 1000 different cars and their individual characteristics that anyone can build in the type of differential and suspension the '13 Focus ST uses? Essentially what PD can program in is it's drivetrain, weight, width, height and length, suspension settings (within their parameters, so spring rate, damping etc., but not TYPE of suspension), gear ratios, simple mechanical differential settings and weight distribution. That's pretty all-encompassing for most cars, but a lot of modern cars are now so packed with individual TC programs, electronic/mechanical differentials wildly different from traditional ones, and suspensions ranging from traditional springs and dampers to electronically controlled hydaulic damping or in the 12C McLaren's case no real suspension at all!!

No game that has such a range of cars can accurately match all of these individual parameters without creating individual suspension models for each car, which is pretty much impossible. So you get a car that has what Ford say is the suspension settings matched to PD's engine.
 
I own the 2014 Fiesta ST in real life, and I have driven the Focus ST and I agree with you. There should be way more lift off oversteer, I took the Focus and de-tuned it to replicate my Fiesta matching the weight and everything. I installed the full custom suspension, kept the stock ride height and spring rates, but raised the rear roll bar from 1 to 3 and set the rear toe at -.40 it still doesnt' have quite the lift off it should but handles much more like my Fiesta ST.
 
Sorry for the late post. I just bought a focus st just because I seen one today at my job. Anyways, I found the closest gearing you can get with a custom transmission.
Max. Speed (Auto Set) 168mph
Gear one 3.231
Gear two 1.952
Gear three 1.321
Gear four 1.029
Gear five 0.0841 (off by .0020)
Gear six 0.0685
Final gear 4.063
It's the closest I was able to come up with. Good luck!
 
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What gear ratios are we talking about?

Here are the gear ratios I found on focusst.org:
The ratios I used for 1/2/3/4/5/6:
gear: 3.231 1.951 1.321 1.029 1.129 0.943
final: 4.063 4.063 4.063 4.063 2.955 2.955
overall: 13.13 7.93 5.37 4.18 3.34 2.79
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That's the only complete gear ratio data I've found so far, I haven't got an ST manual to crosscheck them with, but if anyone do, please let me know if they're incorrect.

What's interesting to look at is the third row, "overall", because that's the output of the gearbox. That's obtained by multiplying gear with final (so for 1st gear it's 3.231*4.063=13.13).

Now, we take the transmission data from GT6:

gear: 3.231 1.952 1.321 1.029 0.821 0.685
final: 4.062 4.062 4.062 4.062 4.062 4.062
overall: 13.12 7.93 5.37 4.18 3.33 2.78

Here are the overall numbers compared side by side. The last column is the difference in speed @ 6500 rpm in each gear between GT6 and the data obtained from focusst.org.

13,124 vs 13,128 Diff: 0,01 mph
7,929 vs 7,927 Diff: -0,02 mph
5,366 vs 5,367 Diff: 0,02 mph
4,180 vs 4,181 Diff: 0,03 mph
3,335 vs 3,336 Diff: 0,06 mph
2,782 vs 2,787 Diff: 0,26 mph

As you can see, the difference is minimal. The difference is the greatest at 6th gear, an amazing 0,26 mph.

So, assuming that the numbers of focusst.org are correct, there's no need to buy a customizable gear box to fiddle around with the numbers, because the stock gearbox is already accurate enough.

If the numbers of focusst.org are not correct, then at least we can assume that they got the numbers from the same source as PD got them from.

Z3R0M0B1US
Sorry for the late post. I just bought a focus st just because I seen one today at my job. Anyways, I found the closest gearing you can get with a custom transmission.
Max. Speed (Auto Set) 168mph
Gear one 3.231
Gear two 1.952
Gear three 1.321
Gear four 1.029
Gear five 0.0841 (off by .0020)
Gear six 0.0685
Final gear 4.062
It's the closest I was able to come up with. Good luck!
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You do know that's exactly the stock gearbox, right? Except for gear five which is off by 0.002. So the only difference is an error in 5th gear which doesn't exist on the stock car.
 
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Really don't understand the whole fanboy kneejerk response every time somebody points out that a car is modeled incorrectly. Talk about corporate apologists. These are supposedly master craftsmen pouring their heart and soul into giving us the "essence" of the car.

It IS a big deal if you've played other sim's. It can take you 5 or 10 laps to really learn to get the most out of a car because the physics of each one are very unique. In Gran Turismo it takes about 2 corners to completely master a cars handling peculiarities. I think they just dump the cars weight distribution, tire size, engine location and horsepower into a standard formula and there you go. I see huge differences in the way cars perform in real life versus the way they do in the game. For instance the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport has the sixth fastest lap time around the Top Gear test track. Anybody think the Veyron in the game is faster than all the Zondas, GT-R's, Ferrari's and Lamborghini's?
 
JackC8
For instance the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport has the sixth fastest lap time around the Top Gear test track. Anybody think the Veyron in the game is faster than all the Zondas, GT-R's, Ferrari's and Lamborghini's?
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I wouldn't use top gear (neither the show, nor the track) as a meassure of how a car should perform. Moreover, being faster is not something absolute. In some tracks yes, in other tracks no, with driver A maybe, with driver B no, etc.
 
JackC8
Really don't understand the whole fanboy kneejerk response every time somebody points out that a car is modeled incorrectly. Talk about corporate apologists. These are supposedly master craftsmen pouring their heart and soul into giving us the "essence" of the car.
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You can't stand to be proven wrong when you're of the opinion that a car has been modeled incorrectly?
 
eran0004
Gear ratios
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Look at the Focusst.org final drive ratios you quoted one more time.
You made the same mistake in your calculation that PD made, you used the primary final drive for all gears...

This is a common mistake for most of the Gran Turismo gearing that is grossly incorrect.
 
Vegard
Look at the Focusst.org final drive ratios you quoted one more time.
You made the same mistake in your calculation that PD made, you used the primary final drive for all gears...
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No I didn't. Do the math and you'll find it's correct.

What's even more amusing is that when some people have installed a custom gearbox and tried to calculate what the "real" gear ratios should be, they end up with the stock gearbox, except from an error in 5th gear.
 
I totally agree with the OP. Its the little details that can really add up to the total enjoyment of the game.

I have a very similar complaint with PD over the Viper ACR. In real life it has front and rear adjustable downforce and a fully adjustable racing suspension from the factory. But in GT5 and 6 none of that is in game. You have to buy downforce(rear only) and buy a racing suspension. A ridiculous oversight for a car that has the rich history of the ACR. I don't use the car stock because its not a true representation of the car. Laziness may indeed be the problem or maybe since Kaz insists on one person doing the full modeling, that person may be burnt out and just doing the bare minimum to at least get the car working for the beta release we all bought twice. it looks like they will never fix this since its been two games already with the same issue so I doubt the ST's gearbox will be fixed in a patch.

Anyway thanks for the tuning info. I'm going to try it when I get home.
 
Vegard

Several times in this clip he stretches 4th to an indicated 190km/h and shifts to 5th.
Notice the RPM drop (~1250 rpm).

Then, test a stock Focus ST '13 in GT6 and tell me again that the ratios are modelled correctly.
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That is odd, but what's even weirder is that the math still works out. Given the numbers alone on the transmission settings it should behave exactly as the real car.

Thanks to this excellent spreadsheet though I think I've figured out what's wrong:

It's not that PD thinks that there is only one final drive. They do know that the 5th and 6th are on a different final drive, but the mistake is that they have compensated for it twice. That is, they first corrected the gear ratios on 5th an 6th to what they would be if the final drive was the same (0,821 and 0,685), but then they also seem to have modeled that second final drive of 2,95. I took the spreadsheet and added a separate final drive for 5th and 6th gear, and suddently the numbers matched exactly what the car is doing in the game.

To correct this, they need to change the gear ratios of 5th and 6th to what they are before they've been adjusted for the second final gear, namely: 1.129 and 0.943.
 
eran0004
I think I've figured out what's wrong
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👍
eran0004
To correct this, they need to change the gear ratios...
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And in order to do that, they're going to need a kick up the backside :D

But seriously though, look at the McLaren F1. It uses a secondary final drive and it has been geared for a theoretical ~500 km/h since the launch of GT5. Same story with the Ferrari F40, and a few others I imagine.
We shouldn't hold our breath.
 
Vegard
👍

And in order to do that, they're going to need a kick up the backside :D
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Not really, they just need to get aware of the problem. Maybe @Jordan can slip a note in Kaz's pocket the next time they meet:

"Focus ST '13:
Correct 5th gear ratio to 1.129
Correct 6th gear ratio to 0.943
Leave everything else as it is"
 
Vegard
👍

And in order to do that, they're going to need a kick up the backside :D

But seriously though, look at the McLaren F1. It uses a secondary final drive and it has been geared for a theoretical ~500 km/h since the launch of GT5. Same story with the Ferrari F40, and a few others I imagine.
We shouldn't hold our breath.
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Yeah, those secondary final drives seem to really mess with PD's modelers' heads. For the McLaren F1, I mantained the same gear ratios and changed the final drive to 2.890 and it seems to behave correctly.

The big problem is that installing a custom gearbox just worsens the loud transmission whining. When will PD tone down that whining? It is just ridiculous.
 
mongoosetierney
Ive took the link off, the photos are all over the internet, Owners forums ect, Thieves will look there first and they are on there. Would be awful if it was stolen but people can see the reg on the street too.
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The danger is not so much thieves stealing your car but stealing one that looks like it and putting your reg on it. They'll be happily driving around in a car that won't get flagged as stolen and the first you'll know about it is when you start getting speeding tickets and congestion charges through the post or even a visit from the police if it is used in a crime. If the car can be linked to your real name they can even claim to be you if they get stopped. You may think this is a bit paranoid but it does happen and it's difficult to prove it wasn't your car. It's lot easier to search for a car on the web than trawl the streets hoping to spot one that fits the bill.
 
Just put the 6 Speed Close tranny. Works perfectly. Problem solved and you won't have to deal with that stupid transmission whine that the fully custom tranny has.
 
Why do I get the feeling that people would be up in arms if they'd implemented the dual final drive transmission and say removed it in the purchasable 6-speed and fully customizable units--or even required selection of two final drives and the end-user need to determine what gear ratios actually work.
Here's an idea: Blame Ford for not taking video game developers into consideration when choosing what gearboxes to equip their car with. Illogical?






Yep...
 

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