The AI thread

If you did that to me I'd do the same ;)

Funny I see the opposite, I should have saved the replay of the race I did and post it on Youtube
 
The only difference so far that I've noticed is that they don't try s hard to block me on the straights in the nurburgring. It's like now they know I'm coming up behind so they give me just enough space
 
zanxion
Try this, get in front of a dummy, start slowing down in a turn and watch it smashing your back! It will keep a constant speed as if you weren't there. Also they never try overtaking you outwards in a turn. Great AI!

All these and many more observed after the update too.
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I've been passed by the AI around the outside. I've been passed by it on the inside as well. All this from the first moment I got the game nevermind any patches that have happened.

If you treat the AI as human it will give you a much better race. That means passing in appropriate places and not using the AI as a break or knocking it out of the way.

By the way, if you slow down in an acceleration zone, whoever is behind you will run into you because it is unexpected behaviour. If you slow down unnecessarily in a turn you will be hit. Neither a Human or an AI is clairvoyant.

If you pull any such stunt on a real race track you would lose your licence, so how is an AI supposed to avoid you?
 
CoolColJ
The update only improves their search distance
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No. The official description says:

"The search range of opponent AI has been expanded, and their intelligence algorithm has been improved"
 
Tired Tyres
I've been passed by the AI around the outside. I've been passed by it on the inside as well. All this from the first moment I got the game nevermind any patches that have happened.

If you treat the AI as human it will give you a much better race. That means passing in appropriate places and not using the AI as a break or knocking it out of the way.

By the way, if you slow down in an acceleration zone, whoever is behind you will run into you because it is unexpected behaviour. If you slow down unnecessarily in a turn you will be hit. Neither a Human or an AI is clairvoyant.

If you pull any such stunt on a real race track you would lose your licence, so how is an AI supposed to avoid you?
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Nobody is talking about using the AI as a bumper.

If you see somebody way ahead breaking then you start breaking too, or you try to get pass him outside/inside. The AI never does that. This applies to all zones. Also, when you try the inner side and you have already passed ahead the AI it will bump you. I will upload a video as a proof.

To prove it yourself do this: Turn the driving line on, get way ahead the AI and stop your car on that line (not in a blind spot, but somewhere clearly visible). All AI will bump on you...
 
They might be a tiny bit quicker overall, since it no longer seems as easy to win with the next less grippy set of tyres to them (e.g. run CS when the AI uses SH). I just wish they'd stand their ground better, I feel cheated when they give up, especially after the (thrilling) hounding they give me when they're reeling me in. :(

And, yes, it's better to respect the AI as you would a real person - well, assuming you'd respect a real person in the way I'm thinking...

Also, they really need to fix the banzai-braking-yet-slow-on-the-apex issue they seem to have; or maybe that's meant to be a lesson in (not) braking too late? And they still need to be able to account for track surface camber changes better than they do. Perhaps these could remain as "traits" in some drivers, though.

All in good time, I hope.
 
I think PD is affraid to make the AI too good so they might scare away some fans. And no difficulty setting in A-spec? Epic fail.

IMO the AI should have real life racing speed for the hardest setting and NOT like this...
Driven in arcade mode with pro difficulty.

Had some late braking at 1.15 would probably had 1.place if i didnt do that and that only after 2 short laps.
AI brake so early that it feel like they try to brake check me :dunce:
 
LOL! 1:21. It's typical inept GT5 AI, isn't it. You're gaining on them and then they all just stomp on the brakes, hard and early, so you almost have no choice but to hit them. Because that's what all racing drivers do when they're running a 2 lap sprint race--slow down massively before the apex. :rolleyes::banghead:🤬👎 The ironic part is, had you not been that close, they probably would not have done this and they would have gone around the bend normally; still 'slow' but not like that.

I've said it many times. The AI is not really there to 'race' you. It's there to slow you down. To block you. To stop you from winning. And it's why I can't be bothered with A-spec anymore. Online or nothing. :grumpy:
 
Yeah only place to get a true racing experience with gt5 is online. To be fair I was to late for that turn at 1.21 because of the slide, but it still feels more like driving around stationary objects then racing 👎
 
jjaisli
LOL! 1:21. It's typical inept GT5 AI, isn't it. You're gaining on them and then they all just stomp on the brakes, hard and early, so you almost have no choice but to hit them. Because that's what all racing drivers do when they're running a 2 lap sprint race--slow down massively before the apex. :rolleyes::banghead:🤬👎 The ironic part is, had you not been that close, they probably would not have done this and they would have gone around the bend normally; still 'slow' but not like that.

I've said it many times. The AI is not really there to 'race' you. It's there to slow you down. To block you. To stop you from winning. And it's why I can't be bothered with A-spec anymore. Online or nothing. :grumpy:
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mr_VOLCANO
Yeah only place to get a true racing experience with gt5 is online. To be fair I was to late for that turn at 1.21 because of the slide, but it still feels more like driving around stationary objects then racing 👎
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Are you guys serious?? They didn't brake early for that turn, they did it in the proper braking zone. Mr. Volcano went crashing into them like a maniac. That was honestly some pretty shameful driving, and not by the AI. As was mentioned earlier, if you race like a sensible person would and try to pass in appropriate places, not just plow your way through wherever you feel like it, the AI will give a much more pleasurable experience.

I treat the AI like they are real people, I try to minimize all contact and only pass in appropriate passing zones and I find the AI does just fine. Until recently they did give up the position too soon, as long as you were behind them they'd fight but as soon as you got your bumper passed them they let off. I've only had a short time to race against the new AI but in the 3 races I did yesterday they would stay right beside me and fight for the spot until my rear bumper was clear of them. Much improved in my opinion, but will obviously never be as good as racing real humans.
 
LOL look at my last post. I know i did a mistake there and dont blame the ai for that crash. The rest of the video you can see the ai are too slow, even if they have better cars. I had to push 50% just so I didnt crash into them, thats not good ai IMO. If the ai was good then they would have bin maybe 2 sec slower then best possible time per lap on a track like that. The point of that video was not to show that ai is poor at close racing, my point was that they are way too slow, and its not like I know that track well.
 
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So long as the "Ultimate Driving Simulator" perpetuates such things as 2 lap races where you start from the rear of the pack, with no qualifying, let's not talk about sensible places to pass; there are none. It's not a 'realistic' race to begin with. And if you want to win a two lap race, it forces you to be aggressive and drive in a way that you normally wouldn't against other human opponents and certainly not in real life on a real track.

That said, YES, they did indeed brake too early there, as the AI always do going into a corner. It's a major fallacy with GT's AI. There is no point treating them like real drivers because they don't think like real drivers, they don't behave like real drivers and they don't react like real drivers. They're programmed to get in your way. They're programmed to brake too early. They're not programmed to circumnavigate the track in the fastest way possible--they're programmed to block and impede you. There is NO such thing as a pleasurable experience racing the AI in this game for me. It's a maddening, frustrating, aggravating experience. They may not be a bunch of assassins like the AI in Shift, but in GT5 they're ridiculously slow--seconds per lap slower at the same PP level, and I'm hardly the fastest guy out there.

If you really try and treat the AI like real drivers and avoid them at all costs, it's no longer racing. It's going for a boring walk in the park trying to work your way around a group of 95 year olds using walkers at every step.
 
Well, it appeared you were in a more powerful car than them. A Nissan Z against a Motul Civic and Co.? Kinda like taking an Indy Car to a Star Mazda race.
 
Look more carefully and you will see rally cars in there too, my car might look faster since the ai is painfully slow around corners. I can post a one make race to prove my point..
 
jjaisli
So long as the "Ultimate Driving Simulator" perpetuates such things as 2 lap races where you start from the rear of the pack, with no qualifying, let's not talk about sensible places to pass; there are none. It's not a 'realistic' race to begin with. And if you want to win a two lap race, it forces you to be aggressive and drive in a way that you normally wouldn't against other human opponents and certainly not in real life on a real track.

That said, YES, they did indeed brake too early there, as the AI always do going into a corner. It's a major fallacy with GT's AI. There is no point treating them like real drivers because they don't think like real drivers, they don't behave like real drivers and they don't react like real drivers. They're programmed to get in your way. They're programmed to brake too early. They're not programmed to circumnavigate the track in the fastest way possible--they're programmed to block and impede you. There is NO such thing as a pleasurable experience racing the AI in this game for me. It's a maddening, frustrating, aggravating experience. They may not be a bunch of assassins like the AI in Shift, but in GT5 they're ridiculously slow--seconds per lap slower at the same PP level, and I'm hardly the fastest guy out there.

If you really try and treat the AI like real drivers and avoid them at all costs, it's no longer racing. It's going for a boring walk in the park trying to work your way around a group of 95 year olds using walkers at every step.
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He did that race in Arcade Mode with pro difficulty, meaning he chose to only do 2 laps. I'm not aware of too many real world racing series that only run 2 laps. There are plenty of longer races in GT5 and if you're playing in Arcade Mode you can do as many (or few) laps as you want.

I try to drive in GT5 like I would a real race car, meaning I brake early and in a straight line and try for a late apex in most turns. This is generally how the AI drives except they don't try for a late apex quite as much. A lot of GT5 drivers don't understand the concept of straight line braking and they kamikaze themselves into turns, thus crashing into the AI drivers and claiming that the AI brakes too early and goes too slow through a turn. The proper way to take a turn is brake in a straight line, be off the brakes during turn-in and coast to the apex, after which you gently roll into the throttle and power out of the turn. Pretty much just like the AI does, and every professional racing driver in the world. GT5 drivers, not so much.
 
In B-Spec are the Nascar & FTG events now winnable with Bob? If the AI is that much better and the cars are the same can you make Bob win or does he have to get lucky?
 
StigsHero
The proper way to take a turn is brake in a straight line, be off the brakes during turn-in and coast to the apex, after which you gently roll into the throttle and power out of the turn. Pretty much just like the AI does, and every professional racing driver in the world. GT5 drivers, not so much.
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Wrong. Certainly there are some cars that NEED to be braked in a straight line, but for the most part that's not the case....

Have you never heard of trail braking?

And you almost NEVER want to coast. Either on throttle or brakes.... Most of that has to do with weight transfer.
 
You don't have to be a professional racing driver. Anybody with a little bit of karting or track experience in the real world, understands the concept of braking, hitting the apex and powering out. Slow in, fast out, is a very basic concept, although it's not the only way through a corner. And if you take the average 15 year old casual gamer who has never been behind the wheel of a car, yes, overshooting a corner and getting on the power too early is a common mistake.

But are you really trying to argue that the AI is not slow? Or that they really don't brake too early? I mean, seriously???

In Arcade mode, on the hardest level, the AI is more competitive in some cars and some tracks than others. But part of the reason it's harder is simply because they DON'T take ideal lines through most corners. And it forces you to back off in place where you normally wouldn't have to.
 
stigs-hero:Braking in a straight line is maybe what you learn with a driving instructor, but most of the new generation of race drivers will tell you different. So you really think I braked to late on the hole race or just at 1.21?
 
jjaisli
You don't have to be a professional racing driver. Anybody with a little bit of karting or track experience in the real world, understands the concept of braking, hitting the apex and powering out. Slow in, fast out, is a very basic concept, although it's not the only way through a corner. And if you take the average 15 year old casual gamer who has never been behind the wheel of a car, yes, overshooting a corner and getting on the power too early is a common mistake.

But are you really trying to argue that the AI is not slow? Or that they really don't brake too early? I mean, seriously???

In Arcade mode, on the hardest level, the AI is more competitive in some cars and some tracks than others. But part of the reason it's harder is simply because they DON'T take ideal lines through most corners. And it forces you to back off in place where you normally wouldn't have to.
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I'm not saying the AI couldn't be faster or better, I'm saying a large number of GT5 drivers have no concept of how to driver properly and then blame the AI. These are the same clowns that populate most of the open lobby rooms and make them virtually useless. The video that was posted on the last page looked to represent that kind of driving, giving no respect to the AI or the line they had chosen.

Yes, there is such a method as trail-braking and some cars benefit greatly from it under certain conditions. But in order to master that technique you must first understand and master straight-line braking.

The AI isn't perfect and has its limitations but continues to improve, albeit in small steps. If you're willing to work within these limitations then good battles can be had with the AI. I usually pick a car that has about 50-75hp less than the AI, I find that I don't overpower them and end up having to actually work to gain a position. Yes, that means they're a little bit slower than me on an even playing field, but it doesn't mean good battles can't be had with them if an appropriate car is chosen.
 
StigsHero
I'm not saying the AI couldn't be faster or better, I'm saying a large number of GT5 drivers have no concept of how to driver properly and then blame the AI. These are the same clowns that populate most of the open lobby rooms and make them virtually useless. The video that was posted on the last page looked to represent that kind of driving, giving no respect to the AI or the line they had chosen.
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Because of 1 crash? I know it wasnt the smothest or the fastest lap, but it was clean exept for that one crash. I just did a quick lap to show how lazy the ai is. Lets see if you can post anything better within 20min?
 
mr_VOLCANO
stigs-hero:Braking in a straight line is maybe what you learn with a driving instructor, but most of the new generation of race drivers will tell you different. So you really think I braked to late on the hole race or just at 1.21?
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It looked to me like you were braking too late through most of the track. There were several instances where you locked the brakes and slid through the turn. You were at least 2-3 car lengths past where I would normally brake on that track, but I've never driven that car so I guess I can't say for sure.

To each their own, we all have our own opinions and none of us are going to change those opinions based on what anonymous people on the internet say. My point is that racing with the AI can be a much better experience if you work within its limitations. At least they're trying to improve it, and it's much better than it was when the game launched. I have fun racing against them now but it used to be rather pointless. Yeah, they have some ways to go still but it will never be as good as racing against real people and we should never expect it to be.
 
mr_VOLCANO
Because of 1 crash? I know it wasnt the smothest or the fastest lap, but it was clean exept for that one crash. I just did a quick lap to show how lazy the ai is.
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It wasn't just the 1 crash, almost every turn looked to be a bonzai move to me, passing on turns that were never meant to be passing zones, forcing other cars off their line, lots of things that would (hopefully) never be done against real people.
 
It was still clean except that crash. Bonsai move? it was on purpouse, i did it to show how SLOW the ai is, if i had driven against online friends then I would not had a chance to make that many overtakes. If you want to see how I drive online then check out my you tube channel..
 
There's no discussion here. The AI are painfully slow. You generally couldn't simply follow them closely through a corner even if you wanted to, they have unpredictably early braking points, low corner speeds, but perhaps the worst thing is that at the slightest suggestion that you might attempt to move alongside them at any point, they will basically concede the position and not accelerate at all! If you try to enter wider and then cut back behind one, it might assume you're going to try to go all the way around the outside, and just roll casually around the inside of the curve. When you pass one they're just a dot in your mirror, because they just act like they're running out of fuel for a few seconds. It's ridiculous.

You can't race them. You can handicap yourself with a car that can just about do their lap times and be among them, but you can't race them.

Previous GT games might have had dumb AI, but I'm almost certain they were quicker and more predictable than the GT5 AI.

I still think it's because of the stupid B-spec mode and its driver improvement learning nonsense. Even GTPSP has better AI than this.

On a side note, perhaps if the AI had in fact been improved to satisfactory standards I would have complained again about the "1 make cup" race mode in the Practice section of GT mode and the way it always pits you against standard versions of whichever car you're driving, rendering it fairly useless.
 
sinbad
There's no discussion here. The AI are painfully slow. You generally couldn't simply follow them closely through a corner even if you wanted to, they have unpredictably early braking points, low corner speeds, but perhaps the worst thing is that at the slightest suggestion that you might attempt to move alongside them at any point, they will basically concede the position and not accelerate at all! If you try to enter wider and then cut back behind one, it might assume you're going to try to go all the way around the outside, and just roll casually around the inside of the curve. When you pass one they're just a dot in your mirror, because they just act like they're running out of fuel for a few seconds. It's ridiculous.
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I don't think this is entirely accurate after the new update 1.10. I had them fighting me and rubbing against my doors and bumpers trying to hang on to their position. When I did get past them I never got more than 5 or 6 car lengths ahead of them, they were always in my rear-view mirror and if I made a mistake they were quick to overtake me. I swear I even had one bump draft me down a long straightaway! 3 gentle taps when he was right on my bumper, I know that has never happened before!
 
StigsHero
I don't think this is entirely accurate after the new update 1.10. I had them fighting me and rubbing against my doors and bumpers trying to hang on to their position. When I did get past them I never got more than 5 or 6 car lengths ahead of them, they were always in my rear-view mirror and if I made a mistake they were quick to overtake me. I swear I even had one bump draft me down a long straightaway! 3 gentle taps when he was right on my bumper, I know that has never happened before!
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I agree... specially in some tracks I even saw myself having the AI following me really close, I don't remember of seeing that before. Their driving lines around corners seem faster too. In the Lotus seasonal you can notice that. Again, it's far from perfect or human-like driving, but its A LOT better than GT5 1.00.
 
sinbad
The AI are painfully slow. You generally couldn't simply follow them closely through a corner even if you wanted to, they have unpredictably early braking points, low corner speeds, but perhaps the worst thing is that at the slightest suggestion that you might attempt to move alongside them at any point, they will basically concede the position and not accelerate at all! If you try to enter wider and then cut back behind one, it might assume you're going to try to go all the way around the outside, and just roll casually around the inside of the curve. When you pass one they're just a dot in your mirror, because they just act like they're running out of fuel for a few seconds. It's ridiculous.

You can't race them. You can handicap yourself with a car that can just about do their lap times and be among them, but you can't race them.
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I have to agree with this. I love GT5 but the AI is never a challenge in itself. The only way the AI is hard to beat in a matched car is if it starts off far ahead of you and you have to play catch-up.

I didn't really see any massive difference in the new 1.10 expert seasonals either. Post pass drop-back and power-drop on corner entry were still very evident.

I have a race license in real life, and if all the guys I race against were to drive like GT AI does, I would be a multi-millionaire by now =P
 
I really hope they completely revamp the AI for the next update,I really just want to ask kaz straight up if they can do that, Or take a look At forzas Drivitar AI.
 
Bob's timing on all the races is a lot better; using the same set-up pre 1.09.

honestly if you want to make it a real challenge this is what I do; start an A=spec race; then drop back into last place

Then as you make your way to first, DO NOT touch any of the cars, if you do consider it like a license test and you are DQ, now rubbing a lil paint is ok, but don't use the other cars to cut a quick corner and past them. Also don't ever drive off the road for a faster corner.

I guarentee you will have a much harder time.
 

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