The damage system in GT5 (update : Mechanical Damage arrived only for online races)
- Thread starter DoctorFouad
- 1,071 comments
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- 9,053
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
OK, how about someone who hasn't bought it yet like me? I'm not buying it until either it gets a proper damage system or the price drops to $30. Full price for another GT game with AI that still has a lot of issues and lack of damage is just ridiculous. I can go play racing games in my library on my PS2, 360, Xbox, and PSP with better AI and damage. And FYI, I really want F1 2010, but the AI issues there are keeping me from paying full price for that one as well. I work hard for my money, and if I part with it it's going to be for an ironclad product.
- 4,323
Not playing a game that you bought...That'll show Kaz and PD what's what.
Edit: The deformation on my Minolta makes it look funny.
Actually the thought had crossed my mind not to play it for now because if damage comes out I am not going to go back and redo all the races or something so I essentially miss out on a big part of the game.
I took a wall hard on Rome in one race and continued on to win the race. Part of me was unhappy because had there been damage correctly I might not have won or at least it would have been a lot harder.
- 252
Update : 05 december 2010
Well after all the reviews and gamers feedback, we now know this for sure :
- There is no mechanical damage in GT5, yamauchi said it will appear in a patch this december, so wait and see.
- Concerning visual damage, unlike the rumors (that were taken as a fact in a lot of official reviews and I am sure a lot was taken from this thread which is ironic and unprofessional from those reviewers) There is no progressive level system damage in GT5, the damage in the beginning of the game is the same in the latest levels of the game. The visual damage is very light and limited and needs a lot of collisions to show its effects on premium cars. Rally premiums cars are the ones that show the biggest visual damage, but again after a lot of crashes and collisions. For standard cars, the damage is even more limited.
Well after all the reviews and gamers feedback, we now know this for sure :
- There is no mechanical damage in GT5, yamauchi said it will appear in a patch this december, so wait and see.
- Concerning visual damage, unlike the rumors (that were taken as a fact in a lot of official reviews and I am sure a lot was taken from this thread which is ironic and unprofessional from those reviewers) There is no progressive level system damage in GT5, the damage in the beginning of the game is the same in the latest levels of the game. The visual damage is very light and limited and needs a lot of collisions to show its effects on premium cars. Rally premiums cars are the ones that show the biggest visual damage, but again after a lot of crashes and collisions. For standard cars, the damage is even more limited.
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
You could have said well I should be damaged and then proceeded to head to the pits. Then continue the race
. Go back and redo all the races just to experience damage modeling? Only the fun races that are actually interesting to go up against the AI. The rest I will probably not touch until I purchase some odd ball car and have some new thing I want to attempt.- 4,323
You could have said well I should be damaged and then proceeded to head to the pits. Then continue the race
Well I could have but that's the problem with faking something... you are guessing and it still feels wrong to me
For instance if I smack the wall and my alignments out, I want to judge how badly it's out. Is it worth pitting over? How much could be fixed by a trip to the pits? How hobbled will I be while I drive to the pit? Do I gamble and skip the pits? And the race was only 3 or 5 laps and I was half way through so a trip to the pits was pretty much a death sentence there...
This is why workarounds (like a time penalty for collisions) always rub me the wrong way...they in no way make up for the missing element
I still honestly don't get why they didn't do mechanical damage out of the box... I mean Kaz said it was working a long time ago and just had to decide whether it would be so tough that one crash could end your race... how did we get from that to no damage at all?
They know we want it, they know other games have had it for a long time and it's been a plus for all of them... why is it now an optional setting under consideration?
- 4,323
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/28/tgs-2009-interview-gran-turismo-5s-kazunori-yamauchi/
Here Kaz chimes in on damage from way back at TGS...
Here Kaz chimes in on damage from way back at TGS...
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
Well I could have but that's the problem with faking something... you are guessing and it still feels wrong to me
For instance if I smack the wall and my alignments out, I want to judge how badly it's out. Is it worth pitting over? How much could be fixed by a trip to the pits? How hobbled will I be while I drive to the pit? Do I gamble and skip the pits? And the race was only 3 or 5 laps and I was half way through so a trip to the pits was pretty much a death sentence there...
This is why workarounds (like a time penalty for collisions) always rub me the wrong way...they in no way make up for the missing element
I still honestly don't get why they didn't do mechanical damage out of the box... I mean Kaz said it was working a long time ago and just had to decide whether it would be so tough that one crash could end your race... how did we get from that to no damage at all?
They know we want it, they know other games have had it for a long time and it's been a plus for all of them... why is it now an optional setting under consideration?
The mechanical damage thing I don't understand at all, because there was absolutely no toggle anywhere in the options to enable or disable. What reason did they have to not have it on from the first time you booted up your game. The thing I wonder about is how can we tell how detailed damage will be and will we be able to discern. FM has a car legend and it shows what's getting abused, but in GT5 it's just this blue car thing and it hasn't changed so I have no idea how detailed this will be. It would make little sense to not show us, since they show us tire damage and tire grip. But it begs the question, why? Was there something wrong with the mechanical damage procedures and how it plays into impacts? PD and Kaz needs to give us something as to why mechanical damage was disabled in the game by default.
- 252
I think the answer is very simple : the GT5 game is unfinished,
no need to look farther away, it is as simple as that
I think it is apparent and abvious that polyphony didnt finish the game (delaying the game 15 days before its release, seriously ?) but was pushed to release it before the christmas...
and this unfinished GT5 game shows in a lot of aspects :
- the most obvious : online portion, completely unfinished, 2 patches in less than 2 weeks already and we ae waiting for the third patch before the end of december !
- the second most obvious aspect that suffered is the the day/night and weather system : obviously polyphony wanted to implement this feature in more tracks, but they were running out of time...
GT5 is the best racing game ever created, but it is still an unfinished business (hopefully they could finish it soon with patches), which makes the game in my eyes even more incredible ! an unfinished game yet it is the best one !
crazy yamauchi lol
- 4,323
While I agree it was clearly unfinished I have to disagree it's the best racing game... at most it's got the best core mechanics on a console (and even then I feel I have to tip that hat to RBR even after so many years) but as far as a racing game (which means examining the whole package and not just the part it does well) I can't say it's the best as the amount of frustrating wrongless in it is quite high.
I love my steak analogy - if the steak is perfect but the sides are overcooked, the soup is cold and the service is horrible, you can still say it's the best steak, but you can't say it's the best dinner.
I love my steak analogy - if the steak is perfect but the sides are overcooked, the soup is cold and the service is horrible, you can still say it's the best steak, but you can't say it's the best dinner.
Agree. It has the POTENTIAL to be the best racing game, but in its current state it is far from it. I'm a sucker for racing games, with 100+ across PC and console. Yet I've stayed away from GT5 for the glaring issues which for me makes it a budget title. If the AI and damage are fixed, it's that much closer to a AAA title and worthy of my dollar. I demand a lot from my racing "sims" for me to buy.
- 242
- TN
I guess you should get out of the "Racing" genre for good then....BHAHAA.
Well I could have but that's the problem with faking something... you are guessing and it still feels wrong to me
For instance if I smack the wall and my alignments out, I want to judge how badly it's out. Is it worth pitting over? How much could be fixed by a trip to the pits? How hobbled will I be while I drive to the pit? Do I gamble and skip the pits? And the race was only 3 or 5 laps and I was half way through so a trip to the pits was pretty much a death sentence there...
This is why workarounds (like a time penalty for collisions) always rub me the wrong way...they in no way make up for the missing element
I still honestly don't get why they didn't do mechanical damage out of the box... I mean Kaz said it was working a long time ago and just had to decide whether it would be so tough that one crash could end your race... how did we get from that to no damage at all?
They know we want it, they know other games have had it for a long time and it's been a plus for all of them... why is it now an optional setting under consideration?
The other games that have it....ALSO have a REWIND feature. Yet you praise them and slam GT5....blasphemy.
Imagine this....Noob player takes on the challenge of the NurBurg for the first time in the Mercedes challenge. Never has driven/played on it in an accurate setting that GT5 provides. Full damage is engaged. Noob player is destine to smack something at the NurBurg in the 7 or so minutes it takes to complete a lap. Full Damage + Noob = Never complete a lap and frustration for new players. People complain about the Lotus challenge on the Top Gear track being hard that there is a thread about it (I didn't find it that difficult with all aids off aside from skid recovery). Now Full damage + Lotus Challenge = people throwing their disk out the window. They already complain now that they would like to chuck their controllers and that's with NO damage really. This would officially be the MOST difficult Racing game to play if they implemented that stuff from the very beginning. The hardest of the Hardcore (like myself) would be the only people enjoying the difficulty. They wanted to bring new players to the GT experience. For that, I don't fault them or complain about it.
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I got the "Take your Honda Home" trophy when I smashed up the AI honda with my Evo 6 TM, didn't realise there was a trophy for that until the message popped when I was watching the replay
I'm at level 14, so there is more damage now, but it doesn't progress much further than this.
how many crashes to achieve that?
- 1,732
- cuco33
So let me get something straight here.. Mechanical damage isn't in the game yet? Only the visual fluff? And it's not a leveling up your xp to unlock it??
Dear PD,
The importance of a damage system isn't the warped looking hoods, loose bumpers, or flapping doors and hoods but rather the affects to a car after an incident. Overly aggressive downshift engine braking (i.e. 4th to 1st), bump n run racing, rear end ramming, wall riding, etc etc all should have their own affects to the car. I don't get how this is being patched in later... But I'll be one waiting for it.
Dear PD,
The importance of a damage system isn't the warped looking hoods, loose bumpers, or flapping doors and hoods but rather the affects to a car after an incident. Overly aggressive downshift engine braking (i.e. 4th to 1st), bump n run racing, rear end ramming, wall riding, etc etc all should have their own affects to the car. I don't get how this is being patched in later... But I'll be one waiting for it.
Enzo309
(Banned)
- 484
Actually mechanical damage has a lot to do with motorsports racing
especially in F1Vettel crashed on button at 300 kmh in Belgium gp and recovered his front wing in the pit stop
Mechanical damage is a big thing
Sebastian Vettel would have not been 2010 f1 world champion if there wasn't mechanical damage ^^
In Turkey GP if vettel did not sack his team mate Mark Webber
It should have been mark webber as 2010 f1 wc now
It was like this before the sacking
Sebastian Vettel first
Mark Webber second going first alright then vettel sacks him
Mark webber's RB6 direct hit on the suspension , radiator
Vettel is pretty good at targeting the radiator
to button alsoBut the race in Belgium ended up being
Another guy 1st
Vettel 2nd
Webber well he's out which means 0
If mark webber was 1st which he should have been the final overall points for this season as Abu dhabi gp was the last 1 in November then mark webber should have been pronounced his world champion dream.
Aryton Senna also in some of his races like in Monaco in the wet retires after hitting the wall before the tunnel. Also dead in 1994 has a lot to do mechanically too.
Mechanical Damage pretty much occurs everywhere in motorsports racing and creates a very unique environment for the fans and drivers
Mechanical Damage is no nothing in motorsports racing
- 1,206
- South Africa
So..we're waiting for the update. Any ideas if its going to be basic? We've waited so long.. It better be better or the same as the 'competition'.
This is an awesome insight into just how Kaz approached the damage system. HE DOESNT GIVE A FLYING CRAP ABOUT IT! Its really sad to see him just shrug it off as something that is not important. He does mention that if it can mean the difference between winning and losing that its a good thing! But WTF kaz? why can I head-on collide into another car and continue on to win a race!? That type of damage system means nothing! Of course he also added in that he doesnt want to damage the cars too severly because thats not fun and thats not an important aspect of racing. Excuse me but last time i checked damage was all about how to minimize the wear and tear as well as dealing with tire punctures and wings & bumpers getting bent or destroyed during a race. I believe he is just trying to ignore the real issue, And that is that they cannot implement real damage cause the system cannot handle their ridiculously high poly-count cars as well as real-time deformation. The damage in gt5 seems slightly scripted to a degree it seems to me also. so many images ive seen of bumpers all falling off in the same exact fashion, as well as the fenders that crinkle up slowly the same way every time as you wall ride a corner.
anyhow here is KAZ's way of playing down GT's horrible damage system...
"How long did it take to implement damage into Gran Turismo 5?
It took two months WTF?! xD to get to where we're at. So it wasn't a matter of difficulty. It was just when we initiated it.
Why implement it now?
One was a technical curiosity as a developer. And the other is that if it will make for clean races, it's a good thing.
How realistic will damage be?
To end with the race with a crash, we can do that now. But I don't think we'll ever have serious crashes, in which the cars are just torn apart into bits or just flattened into a few inches high. Things like that are something I just don't think we'll ever do.
Damage is just one -- just a small aspect of a race. It's nothing that really needs to be focused on. WTF?! xD
Will damage affect gameplay?
The level of damage that is affecting the cars -- because the demo is so short, you might not be able to damage the car that much in such a short amount of time. But it''s not a difficult thing to apply the physics of damage to handling and suspension and all that.
The Cologne version actually already had that implemented. Because it had a five minute playtime, I think you're able to see more of the damage affecting the cars' driving then. But the TGS demo is maybe two and a half minutes long, so you might not be able to see it as prominently."
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- Nissan_Z32_90
I STRONGLY DISAGREE that there is no mechanical damage in GT5 and here's why: I took a rally car (WRC) to the Nurburgring with a buddy online. We messed around a lot and put a lot of damage on the cars as well as left doors and such behind by them falling off. When we got to the main straight of the track, I noticed my car pulling hard to the left on its own and the car would not go any faster than 91 mph. This may not be true for all cars but try this with a WRC car for yourselves!
- 1,689
- NY
- SavageEvil
The mechanical damage isn't what it's supposed to be, like wear on parts such as clutch plates, suspension, wheels, engine, etc. We see no indication of such damage as of yet. The vehicle damage indicator doesn't even look like it supports that information, right now it's just a blue car in parts like that damage sheet you get when you take your car to Toyota for a tune up. Seriously, I would like to see mechanical damage added so at least 24 hour races won't be some race fest with invincible cars that only needs to change fossil fuels ever so often.
- 29
- BR_Octane
There is a huge difference between a driver braking into a turn fearless of anything that could happen to his car and a driver braking into a turn knowing that his car could get "hurt" if something go wrong.
That's the main point about damage to me and that's probably one of the major aspects of automobile racings that cause impact on drivers' performances. So, What's the reason for learning about track layouts, braking techniches etc if you're not exposed to damage????
That's the main point about damage to me and that's probably one of the major aspects of automobile racings that cause impact on drivers' performances. So, What's the reason for learning about track layouts, braking techniches etc if you're not exposed to damage????
- 4,877
- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Just 2 or so, I didn't need to smack it up a lot.
I just bought a Renault Clio Sport V6, added Aero kits to it. One moderate speed crash on a test drive, against a barrier snapped the front bumper, an actual split
2nd hit on the other side also cracked the bumper there. I didn't take any pics though, but I can do so tommorrow
- 374
- birksy82
Just 2 or so, I didn't need to smack it up a lot.
I just bought a Renault Clio Sport V6, added Aero kits to it. One moderate speed crash on a test drive, against a barrier snapped the front bumper, an actual split
2nd hit on the other side also cracked the bumper there. I didn't take any pics though, but I can do so tommorrow
Hi what level are you on as i am on level 19 and in the gallardo race i bumped it a couple of times and the front bumper was hanging off an the wing was crumpled it does seem that the damage gets worse as you level up. I might have pics to put up if anyones interested and if i saved them lol.
- 1,056
- London
Just 2 or so, I didn't need to smack it up a lot.
I just bought a Renault Clio Sport V6, added Aero kits to it. One moderate speed crash on a test drive, against a barrier snapped the front bumper, an actual split
2nd hit on the other side also cracked the bumper there. I didn't take any pics though, but I can do so tommorrow
Yeah Clio damage really is excellent. Love how the bumpers, front and back, get completely torn off and warped.
- 706
I deleted my save and am holding off for one or two months until a couple of things including mechanical damage get fixed.
