The Damage Thread - Best Buy Demo, Now Thats More Like It!

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MrBurnout
Ok, I understand that you have a different opinion than mine, and it's fine, but in that long post you didn't include anything that Forza has over Gran Turismo, not a single thing.
What do you mean by the "more complete package"? What does it have that GT lacks? :)
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Body customization, paint jobs, online, universal damage, more tracks, Porsche. Right now, as much as it pains me to say it, FM is killing GT except in terms of graphics and on-screen cars.
 
MrBurnout
Ok, I understand that you have a different opinion than mine, and it's fine, but in that long post you didn't include anything that Forza has over Gran Turismo, not a single thing.
What do you mean by the "more complete package"? What does it have that GT lacks? :)
Click to expand...

IMO better in Forza
Car to car interaction
The Racing
Online and online features
Car ownership - Editors/body mods
Some of the tuning and tuning options
Some of the physics. Seems Forza allows for a more complete aids off. Traction control is never completely off in GT
It has damage on ALL cars though varied in levels on a per manufacturer basis its still present

to name a few

Even despite all that I prefer GT. Always have but PD seems stuck
 
dancardesigner
Thought you were going?
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I was, but you convinced me otherwise. After all, there seems to be a lot of work to be done.

It just disturbs me to no extent that so few people take the effort to carefully examine the facts, then think about it, draw their conclusions and then present them as such. This is not directed at you, rather a general statement of what's going on in the active threads.

Now, back to the topic at hand. I remember Kaz saying "we can release the game at any time now". To me, that does not mean that the game is finished and ready to go on the shelves, rather than that the core product is done, and that everything else can be added as downloadable content.
 
dancardesigner
Graphics, i think PGR4 is overall better, screw resolution
Sounds, most games are better
Physics, R factor, live 4 speed and possibly even shift but thats questionable
All GT5 has over them is number of cars on screen and number of total cars, thing is half the cars in GT5 most people won't even drive.
Games like Forza, PGR, NFS know what cars we want to drive and hence they are the ones that happened to be first in acquireing the licenses.

Quite simply put Polyphony have bitten off more than they can chew, GT PSP being a part of that, which in turn has cocked the game up.

They should be developing all aspects of the game in unity like all other developers, instead of taking a trillion years striving to acheive perfection in one area.
What's the point in that, by the time next console comes out they will have to do it all again anyway.
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Well, but you see, this is exactly what I meant about GT being the best racing game, as in having the most "complete package" of all these features.

For the sake of the argument let's assume everything I bolded in your post is completely true, which means that there is 1 game in the market that is better graphics wise than GT is. But isn't PGR4 more of an arcade game? Would you seriously buy it over GT or Forza?

Same thing about physics - Live for Speed and rFactor might be better (based on videos, Shift isn't even close, though), but what other things do those games offer? 5 tracks with about 20 configurations total and about 30 cars, of which exactly 1 (BMW Sauber) is licensed (which means we can't really compare the physics of the cars in the game to their real life counterparts... because there aren't any) in LFS, and rFactor which also has BMW Sauber F1 as the lone licensed car, and has 14 tracks total (yes, I do know that there are tons of mods, but they are of varying quality and don't really represent the original game that much). These two games will beat GT physics wise, but will come up short everywhere else (except for sound, I suppose), which means these games don't really come close to Gran Turismo series either.

There are games that are better than GT in nearly every possible category, yet there is no single game, that can compete with GT in everything (Forza series is the only possible exclusion to this).
 
3Axis
It befuddles me that when every time we get news, crumbs or cakes-worth, people start to complain, as opposed to being grateful they know something at all.
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I was thinking the same thing. WHATS UP PEOPLE?:dunce:
 
the Interceptor
I was, but you convinced me otherwise. After all, there seems to be a lot of work to be done.

It just disturbs me to no extent that so few people take the effort to carefully examine the facts, then think about it, draw their conclusions and then present them as such. This is not directed at you, rather a general statement of what's going on in the active threads.

Now, back to the topic at hand. I remember Kaz saying "we can release the game at any time now". To me, that does not mean that the game is finished and ready to go on the shelves, rather than that the core product is done, and that everything else can be added as downloadbale content.
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But dude, just look how naked and bare GT5 looks, it's missing so much atmosphere because of effects like smoke, rubber marks, better road textures. And yes i really do think GTA4 has better damage, some say it isn't realistic, but i say it is a hell of a lot more realistic than this.
It does look like they have improved the physics somewhat though which is the main thing really.

But just look at this, even NFS is starting to creep ahead in a lot of areas ''NFS''. Even the cockpit looks just as good as GT5.

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_need_for_speed_shift_gamescom_gameplay-12438_en.html
 
LancerEvoX
I was thinking the same thing. WHATS UP PEOPLE?:dunce:
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I don't see nothing wrong in that, arguing with respect is useful. We are only sharing different opinions.

So here, on the Damage Thread is normal discuss about every single video frame and new picture taken about deformed GT5 cars :)
 
dancardesigner
But dude, just look how naked and bare GT5 looks, it's missing so much atmosphere because of effects like smoke, rubber marks, better road textures. And yes i really do think GTA4 has better damage, some say it isn't realistic, but i say it is a hell of a lot more realistic than this.
It does look like they have improved the physics somewhat though which is the main thing really.

But just look at this, even NFS is starting to creep ahead in a lot of areas ''NFS''. Even the cockpit looks just as good as GT5.

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_need_for_speed_shift_gamescom_gameplay-12438_en.html
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... and I can only repeat: do not judge GT5 on what you have seen in a limited-time demo which was cobbeled together for some game fair. I am only too happy to continue this discussion with you when we have some official words on how extensive GT5 will be. We do agree on the part that what we saw there today was okay-ish, but not exactly breathtaking (my opinion!). But that was just what we saw today, and not necessarily what GT5 will be like. Wait for some final words, that's all I'm asking for.
 
I don't know whether it's been discussed before, but I haven't the time to read through all these recent posts, so I'll say it anyway!
Seeing as not all the cars will be physically damagable, won't it be a little unfair if you're racing in a race car and someone crashes into you in a road car (assuming that damage will be only modelled on race cars and not road cars)
Which makes me think, will we see the return of the old GT2 style mechanical damage. I can see this as being the only fair way of doing things.
 
the Interceptor
... and I can only repeat: do not judge GT5 on what you have seen in a limited-time demo which was cobbeled together for some game fair. I am only too happy to continue this discussion with you when we have some official words on how extensive GT5 will be. We do agree on the part that what we saw there today was okay-ish, but not exactly breathtaking (my opinion!). But that was just what we saw today, and not necessarily what GT5 will be like. Wait for some final words, that's all I'm asking for.
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I'll shake to that. To be honest im sick of hearing the Accronym GT5, it's like it's become a part of my life now. I need a break from these forums, all this speculation and wishlists do is build hype that can never be fulfilled.
 
Cheshyrkat
IMO better in Forza
Car to car interaction
The Racing
Online and online features
Car ownership - Editors/body mods
Some of the tuning and 1. tuning options
Some of the physics. Seems Forza allows for a more complete aids off. 2. Traction control is never completely off in GT
3. It has damage on ALL cars though varied in levels on a per manufacturer basis its still present

to name a few

Even despite all that I prefer GT. Always have but PD seems stuck
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That's actually a pretty nice list. I do have some questions, though:
1. I suppose that by "tuning options" you meant something like supspension settings, boost, camber, etc.
Do you prefer Forza's tuning options to GT4's, or were you comparing it to GT5P, which has very few options (due to be fixed in GT5, if I remember correctly)?
2. Is that really true? Traction control is definitely on when you're off the track, but is it really on when you are staying on the asphalt?
3. This actually is something I would not like to see in GT5, as varied levels of damage is definitely something I do not desire. This is why I am somewhat supportive of damage inclusion on only race cars, as you don't race a WRC car against a non-race car very often (and even if you did, you could turn the damage off for that particular race), so you don't have cars that aren't equally "damageable" (I'm not really sure that that's a real word) in the same race, but that's just me :)
 
Calm down people, lets wait for TGS to clear things up, as well for end of this show in Germany.
 
Wow many new members here and everyone is just talking bad about GT5. Looks like some butthurt Forza Fanboys just saw the rise of the new king of racinggames and start being defensive.

Gran Turismo has Damage, only on race cars, but thats fine with me. The simulation of impacts (car vs wall and car vs car) has been vastly improved, so even the races without damage should result in a more realistic outcome of certain crashes.
I prefer damage on racecars over scaled damage that shows more or less effect, depending which car you drive.

GT5p brought 16 cars to multiplayer, which is a good thing and iam confident, that GT5 will offer the same. 8 cars just feels last gen and noone can tell me that they prefer less cars on track, especially in endurance races.

GT5 will feature 1000 cars, many of them will be great and some of them will probably be never driven by the mayority of people, just because they are slow or just boring. But in the end GT5 has more cool cars than any other game, even if you take out the 30 versions of the skyline, the 10 types of civics and the 40 different light wight cars from asia. Its still more than the competition has to offer.
170 of them have demage? fine with me, since its more than most other games on the market have total.

Onlinefeatures will be improved and people still seem to think its going to be dumped down like GT5 Prologue, wich will definately not be the case.

The most interesting thin right now is the head tracking feature, wich has never been used in any racinggame on console. I think this might be a usefull addition to the genre, since i find it hard to watch through the sidewindows while using a wheel, because the buttons (arrowkeys) are to far away from the wheel.

I think you should just shut up and wait for TGS, since there is going to be the big reveal of GT5 and iam very confident, that PD will deliver. They allways did!

As far as this GT4 cars upscaling bull.... is conserned i think its just been translated incorrectly. I guess the data will be from GT4, so its bascily going to be the same models with the same enginestats and such things. I dont think PD will just upscale GT4 models like Turn10 did with Forza 2.
 
yeah.. with all this whining none of you will get Christmas presents. Such a bunch of negatively thinking cry-babies.. :irked:
 
I thought I might lay this nugget of wisdom on you guys so here it goes.

I noticed the first time I played GT5P that you never really make contact with the other cars, there's always a small gap between the bodies. And my theory was that PD has the damage modeled completely already and put a sort of "invisible shield", if you will, so that contact won't activate the damage. And I have heard nothing in the last 2 years to disprove that. I think that the manufacturers that are okay with damage will have their "shields" dropped and allow full car contact, and therefore damage. The ones that don't want damage, their shields stay up and there will always be a tiny buffer between those cars and the ones making contact with them.

And with time, through DLC an updates, these shields can be dropped on more and more cars as PD convinces them to allow damage or just time goes by and the manufacturers realize damage is a necessity in a videogame of this caliber (and when they realize the consumers hate their guts for taking away from an excellent game) and they tell PD to drop the shields.

This is just my take, because it was a fairly noticeable "glitch/flaw" in the game to have that kind of gap between colliding cars and PD isn't THAT sloppy, no matter how mad some of you may be at them at the moment, you can at least admit that much.
 
Custer85
Wow many new members here and everyone is just talking bad about GT5. Looks like some butthurt Forza Fanboys just saw the rise of the new king of racinggames and start being defensive.

Gran Turismo has Damage, only on race cars, but thats fine with me. The simulation of impacts (car vs wall and car vs car) has been vastly improved, so even the races without damage should result in a more realistic outcome of certain crashes.
I prefer damage on racecars over scaled damage that shows more or less effect, depending which car you drive.

GT5p brought 16 cars to multiplayer, which is a good thing and iam confident, that GT5 will offer the same. 8 cars just feels last gen and noone can tell me that they prefer less cars on track, especially in endurance races.

GT5 will feature 1000 cars, many of them will be great and some of them will probably be never driven by the mayority of people, just because they are slow or just boring. But in the end GT5 has more cool cars than any other game, even if you take out the 30 versions of the skyline, the 10 types of civics and the 40 different light wight cars from asia. Its still more than the competition has to offer.
170 of them have demage? fine with me, since its more than most other games on the market have total.

Onlinefeatures will be improved and people still seem to think its going to be dumped down like GT5 Prologue, wich will definately not be the case.

The most interesting thin right now is the head tracking feature, wich has never been used in any racinggame on console. I think this might be a usefull addition to the genre, since i find it hard to watch through the sidewindows while using a wheel, because the buttons (arrowkeys) are to far away from the wheel.

I think you should just shut up and wait for TGS, since there is going to be the big reveal of GT5 and iam very confident, that PD will deliver. They allways did!

As far as this GT4 cars upscaling bull.... is conserned i think its just been translated incorrectly. I guess the data will be from GT4, so its bascily going to be the same models with the same enginestats and such things. I dont think PD will just upscale GT4 models like Turn10 did with Forza 2.
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I agree with just about everything you said.
 
MrBurnout
3. This actually is something I would not like to see in GT5, as varied levels of damage is definitely something I do not desire. This is why I am somewhat supportive of damage inclusion on only race cars, as you don't race a WRC car against a non-race car very often (and even if you did, you could turn the damage off for that particular race), so you don't have cars that aren't equally "damageable" (I'm not really sure that that's a real word) in the same race, but that's just me :)
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That is exactly it. If cars are either damageable or not, you can easily restrict races to only cars that are damageable. With apparently 170 models to choose from that sounds perfectly acceptable to me. If cars have varied levels of damage you can't easily restrict what cars you can race with. this will lead to someone having an advantage based on the manufacturers license rather than skill. That isn't even mentioning that the varied damage levels are not documented. It sounds like PD is doing it the right way.
 
newnikita
Im'n not saying GTA is realistic, simulating the speed, force and wind needed for that, only that makes it. And in that Subaru video, seems going fast and crashing several times before that... really strange didn't pull off.

So, if you want to argue something, ok, fine. But don't "shame on me" so easy, that was really disgusting :grumpy:
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I know it's hard to tell over the internet, but I meant that in a completely friendly and joking manner. Cheers.
 
energyracing
I thought I might lay this nugget of wisdom on you guys so here it goes.

I noticed the first time I played GT5P that you never really make contact with the other cars, there's always a small gap between the bodies. And my theory was that PD has the damage modeled completely already and put a sort of "invisible shield", if you will, so that contact won't activate the damage. And I have heard nothing in the last 2 years to disprove that. I think that the manufacturers that are okay with damage will have their "shields" dropped and allow full car contact, and therefore damage. The ones that don't want damage, their shields stay up and there will always be a tiny buffer between those cars and the ones making contact with them.

And with time, through DLC an updates, these shields can be dropped on more and more cars as PD convinces them to allow damage or just time goes by and the manufacturers realize damage is a necessity in a videogame of this caliber (and when they realize the consumers hate their guts for taking away from an excellent game) and they tell PD to drop the shields.

This is just my take, because it was a fairly noticeable "glitch/flaw" in the game to have that kind of gap between colliding cars and PD isn't THAT sloppy, no matter how mad some of you may be at them at the moment, you can at least admit that much.
Click to expand...
Pretty interesting theory you have there. :)
 

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