The F1 driver transfer discussion/speculation archiveFormula 1

[TenEightyOne]

So I would assume he is not proud then lol.

Haha, he might not even be employed yet

It's good if they have signed him, I think he's one of the most improved on the grid over the space of his career but had an obvious turd of a car this year... and a teammate who was kept in a special cage on wheels.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Or Lotus would rather they make a formal yet goofy twitter announcement themselves rather than leave it to the boring Boyish looker they've retained.

 

[TenEightyOne]

As this has turned into an all-things-F1:2015 thread....

Bernie doubts the double-points-for-last-race will continue into 2015. He says it would have worked if the teams had gone for three races rather than one, but that they're bloody idiots, all mechanics who just think about the short term life of their own teams. Source.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

1 double points race stupid, 3 is OK... But it wouldn't have made a difference this year (between Mercedes drivers at least)?

 

[TenEightyOne]

1 double points race stupid, 3 is OK... But it wouldn't have made a difference this year (between Mercedes drivers at least)?

Three makes a lot more sense than one; as Bernie says any driver would have to be 150 points clear after 16 races to be safe. The champhionship would be wide open at this point.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Any double points racing in F1 is about as good an idea as tossing a coin to decide the Championship. 👎

 

[Imari]

Personally I think they'd be better off rejiggering the points payouts per race so that the top places are relatively close in points and the gaps get bigger as you go down.

For example, now it looks like this:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

What if it was:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 24 points
3rd : 22 points
4th : 20 points
5th : 18 points
6th : 16 points
7th : 14 points
8th : 11 points
9th : 6 points
10th : 1 point


Then it keeps the front guys close together so that one poor race can really upset the table, and it gives the bottom guys a chance to really jump up the table with a single good result. Hell, you could probably stretch the points a bit further down the field if you wanted, even.

I think something like this does much better at stopping teams running away with the title early. Even a flat points scheme is better at stopping people gaining huge leads. The way that F1 points work now with bigger gaps in points the higher you get up the table only serves to make sure that dominant teams have an insurmountable lead. Maybe that's as it should be, but it seems to be an issue if they're willing to make double points races to try and deal with it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

For example, now it looks like this:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
...

What if it was:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 24 points
...

Currently the points ratios are the same as the 10-8-6 system but with a greater penalty given to second place (to stop drivers "settling" for second). I've no idea if that's really worked or not but your system definitely reverses all that

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Back on the topic of driver movements, I wonder if the reason for the delay with Alonso is because he is planning retirement. Everyone keeps suggesting that he is holding out for the chance of a Mercedes seat in 2016, but there has been no solid evidence of it. On the other hand, if you look at his Twitter activity, he has been talking a lot about Jules Bianchi. Bianchi is obviously on everyone's mind, but Alonso seems to have taken it pretty hard.

 

[mustafur]

Personally I think they'd be better off rejiggering the points payouts per race so that the top places are relatively close in points and the gaps get bigger as you go down.

For example, now it looks like this:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

What if it was:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 24 points
3rd : 22 points
4th : 20 points
5th : 18 points
6th : 16 points
7th : 14 points
8th : 11 points
9th : 6 points
10th : 1 point


Then it keeps the front guys close together so that one poor race can really upset the table, and it gives the bottom guys a chance to really jump up the table with a single good result. Hell, you could probably stretch the points a bit further down the field if you wanted, even.

I think something like this does much better at stopping teams running away with the title early. Even a flat points scheme is better at stopping people gaining huge leads. The way that F1 points work now with bigger gaps in points the higher you get up the table only serves to make sure that dominant teams have an insurmountable lead. Maybe that's as it should be, but it seems to be an issue if they're willing to make double points races to try and deal with it.

The previous points Table was Similar and apart from 2004, 2005 and 2009 went to the last race.

The biggest issue thats changed in title battles over the years is reliability, people are just finishing races way more then they used to because the machines are more reliable.

I think it may even be better to just award points for every position as well as the bottom Teams can't possibly score in the current system where as before they could even when 6th was the last points position because often there would be massive number of retirements.

Infact that was actually a big thing back then, having unreliable cars really added to the drama, and it was bound to happen when you had more open regulation where you where able to constantly try new parts and everything was pushed to the limit.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Alonso seems to have taken it pretty hard.

They're both Ferrari drivers and Alonso would have been part of Bianchi's F1 preparation, with the exception of Force India and Perez Alonso possibly knew him the best in an F1 context, I guess.

where you where able to constantly try new parts and everything was pushed to the limit.

Very few teams ever run the same spec twice, at every race something is new/changed. The formula still IS pretty open, just look at the cars to see that, they're very different from each other.

Certainly the reliability is better overall, I'm not sure that's as much formula-related as it is process-related. In the 70s/80s an F1 car was still manufactured/altered on the fly in metalwork shops while we started to trundle about in robot-made precision-built road cars.

Now the processes involved in designing and building parts for an F1 car are so precise and measured that reliability is much greater - particularly in engines which had the central cause of most retirements.

 

[mustafur]

They're both Ferrari drivers and Alonso would have been part of Bianchi's F1 preparation, with the exception of Force India and Perez Alonso possibly knew him the best in an F1 context, I guess.



Very few teams ever run the same spec twice, at every race something is new/changed. The formula still IS pretty open, just look at the cars to see that, they're very different from each other.

Certainly the reliability is better overall, I'm not sure that's as much formula-related as it is process-related. In the 70s/80s an F1 car was still manufactured/altered on the fly in metalwork shops while we started to trundle about in robot-made precision-built road cars.

Now the processes involved in designing and building parts for an F1 car are so precise and measured that reliability is much greater - particularly in engines which had the central cause of most retirements.

Yes but everything is an evolution rather then revolution and thats where the difference lies, by the time reliability is focused on they have to keep up with the tech and with massive results, everything now comes with minor tenth or two upgrades.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes but everything is an evolution rather then revolution and thats where the difference lies, by the time reliability is focused on they have to keep up with the tech and with massive results, everything now comes with minor tenth or two upgrades.

I'm not sure what your point is. They shouldn't focus on accuracy or reliability in their build?

The TWG and the larger teams discuss the Formula and changes are implemented. Like in 2014, surely that was revolutionary rather than evolutionary?

Over the last 3,500 miles you've seen those cars evolve quite rapidly in the Forumula following that revolution, no?

 

[mustafur]

I'm not sure what your point is. They shouldn't focus on accuracy or reliability in their build?

The TWG and the larger teams discuss the Formula and changes are implemented. Like in 2014, surely that was revolutionary rather than evolutionary?

Over the last 3,500 miles you've seen those cars evolve quite rapidly in the Forumula following that revolution, no?

Yes but the rate of evolution is much slower when you could almost do those kind of miles between races in unlimited testing, with regulations that had more areas of open development mechanically and Aerodynamicly.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes but the rate of evolution is much slower when you could almost do those kind of miles between races in unlimited testing, with regulations that had more areas of open development mechanically and Aerodynamicly.

True... but what does that have to do with anything? That still wouldn't bring you revolution in the formula, only evolution. It would also greatly increase the difference between the haves (Ferrari with a full racetrack on-site) and Marussia who had to rent/borrow/buy everything from scratch.

You still seem to be under the impression that the current practice/racing only allows minor upgrades... that really isn't the case... unless you classify an upgrade by the net time advantage, which is useless.

 

[GTPorsche]

Alonso was in attendance at WEC in Bahrain. Was in Porsche garage visiting Mark Webber, and in the Ferrari GTE garage.

Rumor fuel.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Back on the topic of driver movements, I wonder if the reason for the delay with Alonso is because he is planning retirement. Everyone keeps suggesting that he is holding out for the chance of a Mercedes seat in 2016, but there has been no solid evidence of it. On the other hand, if you look at his Twitter activity, he has been talking a lot about Jules Bianchi. Bianchi is obviously on everyone's mind, but Alonso seems to have taken it pretty hard.

He is the best driver on the grid now in my opinion, if he retires soon he will regret not getting more championships.

 

[mikeerfol]

Alonso was in attendance at WEC in Bahrain. Was in Porsche garage visiting Mark Webber, and in the Ferrari GTE garage.

Rumor fuel.

Maybe he told them "If you want Jenson you have to wait for 2-3 years" ?

 

[mustafur]

True... but what does that have to do with anything? That still wouldn't bring you revolution in the formula, only evolution. It would also greatly increase the difference between the haves (Ferrari with a full racetrack on-site) and Marussia who had to rent/borrow/buy everything from scratch.

You still seem to be under the impression that the current practice/racing only allows minor upgrades... that really isn't the case... unless you classify an upgrade by the net time advantage, which is useless.

The current situation is all evolution Refining each area of the cars package then making sure each upgrade can work with the whole package, when someone finds something other's haven't tried then its a matter of implementing that on the car that wasn't designed for it's existence in the first place. creating a situation of being behind until the next chassis is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The current situation is all evolution Refining each area of the cars package then making sure each upgrade can work with the whole package, when someone finds something other's haven't tried then its a matter of implementing that on the car that wasn't designed for it's existence in the first place. creating a situation of being behind until the next chassis is.

That's how a Formula works though, isn't it???

You still haven't answered whether or not you think the changes for 2014 were revolutionary.

 

[daan]

Can we get back to talking about drivers please?

 

[mustafur]

That's how a Formula works though, isn't it???

You still haven't answered whether or not you think the changes for 2014 were revolutionary.

when did you ask me that?

I would say mechanicaly it is because the engine is completely different, however the fixed nature of the regulations on the engines with only changes allowed to be made being reliability changes its clearly obvious why reliability has been good this season, if the engine regulations where opened up to early 2000s levels then Reliability couldn't be focused on as much as it is right now because you would fall behind the game without power improvements and thats where reliability issues would then come back into it.

Also engine rules of unlimited units allowed would of contributed massively.

Edit: last of me on this, PM me if you want to go further.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He is the best driver on the grid now in my opinion, if he retires soon he will regret not getting more championships.

He already has two. And after what happened to Bianchi, he may be reconsidering how important the opportunity to win more titles is.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He is the best driver on the grid now in my opinion, if he retires soon he will regret not getting more championships.

He has two and he's not the best, there are other drivers that can adapt, and I believe the Ricciardo is one of them and then there is Lewis who is just as good as Alonso and younger. So really, what are we losing if he were to retire? I mean I rather see the Kimi's of the world leave before Fernando especially Fernando is a good car.

 

[sems4arsenal]

He already has two. And after what happened to Bianchi, he may be reconsidering how important the opportunity to win more titles is.

True, but I really do get the feeling 2 won't be enough for him.

He has two and he's not the best, there are other drivers that can adapt, and I believe the Ricciardo is one of them and then there is Lewis who is just as good as Alonso and younger. So really, what are we losing if he were to retire? I mean I rather see the Kimi's of the world leave before Fernando especially Fernando is a good car.

The kimis weren't exactly keeping up with the Fernandos this year.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

... especially Fernando is a good car.

Read that and thought of this:

Back on topic though, despite not agreeing with some of his decisions in his career, it would be a shame to lose him from F1. He is the most complete driver on the grid, and just having him there is worth half a second in car development, and another with him in it. Always said that if I started an F1 team tomorrow, the first driver I would be calling was Alonso.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

True, but I really do get the feeling 2 won't be enough for him.

Maybe he felt that way before Suzuka. But maybe not after.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

 

[Whodoyouthink]

Alonso was in attendance at WEC in Bahrain. Was in Porsche garage visiting Mark Webber, and in the Ferrari GTE garage.

Rumor fuel.

Since he visited Le Mans this year as well, I'm seriously wondering if he'll end up driving an LMP1 after he eventually retires from F1. He must at least have some sort of interest in it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Since he visited Le Mans this year as well, I'm seriously wondering if he'll end up driving an LMP1 after he eventually retires from F1. He must at least have some sort of interest in it.

"Eventually" could be about 5 days away

And yes, as time goes on I'm certain he's going to be in WEC... and he'll want to be in the fastest car. And if you were a team you'd probably want him to drive it; he's epically smooth on a car over long distances as we already know.