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Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by arvin charles, Oct 7, 2010.
Is there any FREE Le Mans streams out there?
Nismo TV on youtube, although they do only have onboard cams.
You mean there's worse?
I always thought they should just become the largest motorsport gallery. They'd have the largest archive of high Quality Motorsport pictures from around the world and they'd be a lot less of a joke. Instead of Motorsport.com, they could be Motorsportgallery,com (Generic but with the good pictures they have, I think it'd be alright).
Would Daytona Prototype be faster at Le Mans than LMP2? I think it would be cool to see them run at the 24hr.
I really wish we could get a *little* GTE coverage.
There's worse. Pitpass is Bernie Ecclestone's propaganda machine, while Joe Saward routinely attacks every other journalist and makes out that people are idiots for trusting any source other than him.
Imsa P2 spec has +75 HP to FIA spec so if the DP ran at it's Imsa spec it would be faster. But a DP does not meet the crash test criteria so it will never be allowed to enter.
I thought DP was very safe?
IIRC they require a carbon tub.
So, the Audis are a bit quicker over one lap, but the Porsches are leading. Is it because they treat better the tyres or they spend less fuel?
Yes but I do not want to post it in this thread. Everyone should consider paying for the WEC stream for the season as it is fantastic. It has no ads and it is of fantastic quality. There is an alternative however but you need to pm me if you want it.
the 919's were killing it during the night. They are taking it easy now.
They do seem to be working better at low temperatures. Andre Lotterer reckons Audi didn't use the super-softs during the night because they were conscious of a lack of long-term wear. He seemed to think that the time to be gained on track would have more than made up for the time lost to extra stops and kept them in touch with the Porsches.
Justin Wilson will drive a HPD LMP2 in this year's Pike's Peak:
Well...that'll be interesting.
So, having now visited the 24 hours of Le Mans once, I have to say that I wasn't left too amazed by it... I'll leave the long rants out because I appreciate that much of it is only personally gripes, and let's face it... Not all motorsport can be like attending the BTCC...
But, one thing that did occur to me as a reasonable topic for discussion: Including the Bugatti circuit in the 24 hour circuit.
The main reason for suggesting this is to offer a reasonable opportunity for spectators to see some on track action. With the size of the crowd the turns up, the viewing areas are woeful, with a large amount of spectator seats being those that overlook the pit straight, and much of the existing circuit doesn't allow spectating (down the mulsanne for instance). Add in the long distances between parts of the circuit and the congestion that comes with a quarter of a million people trying to line a couple of miles of track, plus the big chunks of real estate taken up with VIP/hospitality.. And it's not a great experience.
Utilising the Bugatti circuit offers more of a stadium experience for fans as well as possible generating a little more on track excitement...
I appreciate it's not that easy to do, but as a circuit and as a race I think it's overrated, and working the Bugatti circuit in to the mix would go a long way to making the experience better.
I made something like that a while back, it utilizes the Maison Blanche circuit as well. I think it'd be neat to see a major change to the track, it's been a while since we've had one.
That's a bit more radical than I had in mind, and you have to consider that part of it is on circuit property and part of it is public... Plus most of the other local roads, private or public are already under a lot of stress come the race weekend anyway. Using the first two or three corners from the Bugatti circuit, then creating a new link somewhere just after Chemin Aux Boeuf on the Bugatti Circiot, back to the Tertre Rouge section of the 24 track. Of course, it verges on other peoples land and would require some work to fully get the best for spectators.
Hey folks, I've put together a playlist of some of the videos (mostly taken on my phone) I took at Le Mans, although the last video is on my camera. Feel free to have a look
The day that the 24 Hours of Le Mans is held on the Bugatti circuit, or in a mangled version of the Circuit the La Sarthe is the day that motorsports as a concept is all dead and I do hope that I don't live to see this happening.
I really don't see anything wrong with the current layout and considering the last few races there have been rather good I don't understand why it's been brought up.
No, from hundreds or thousands of miles away via a TV screen neither would I...
Just to be clear, I'll quote my reason for suggesting it from 6 posts up....
So, It's not the on track racing that I've got a problem with, it's the track side experience - considering the scale of the race, the venue is inadequate. Just my opinion though, 263,499 other people didn't seem to mind, so I doubt the ACO will miss my money next year!
I wonder if people said that each time the track's been modified in the past, the world must have damn near ended when they built the Porsche Curves!
If I had to choice of being launched into a wall at 200mph in either a plastic bin or a DP, I'd take my bets in the bin any day.
They are about as safe as the Ford Pinto.
I wasn't quite sure where to post this, so I'll put it here.
On the 24th of March 2008, as an innocent 8 year old, I stood at Oulton Park's Cascades for round 2 of the 2008 Avon Tyres British GT Championship. On pole was car number 23, the Ferrari F430 GT3 of Christians In Motorsport. It was the first car that came round on track, and it was an instant favourite of mine.
I didn't know the drivers, I didn't really know much at all. I just knew I liked the car, and I knew I'd support them from that day forwards.
The team later became Rosso Verde, and they were always there, year after year, without fail. I'd largely forgotten about the HOPE car, but my support never failed. Both drivers would be out in the paddock with a smile.
On the 22nd of June 2013, I realised I had missed the start of Le Mans. I was slightly annoyed with myself, but I quickly turned the TV on and forgot about it. I joined 22 minutes into the race, only to be greeted with a safety car. I didn't see what it was for, I had only heard an Aston Martin crashed, but with the accident cleared up fairly quickly I thought little of it.
About 2 hours later, it was announced that the driver of the Aston Martin had died. I was shocked, the whole family was shocked. But there was more to it for me.
The driver of the number 23 Christians In Motorsport F430, who sat on pole that day, who sparked my love of GT racing and kept me supporting for years to come, was Allan Simonsen. Hearing his name announced on television that Saturday was very hard to swallow. It truly settled in a few hours later.
The HOPE livery is rather poignant in my eyes. There is hope for his family and friends, in particular his brother Benny, in that they will be able live their lives without dwelling on that tragic day, but rather be proud of his achievements and keep his memory alive. There is also the thought of new life - I hope that wherever he is, Allan has new life, and it is just as enjoyable as the one he lived here on earth.
I will never forget you.
You do have some good points although if i'm honest I didn't find spectating any worse than at somewhere like Oulton Park which is damn near impossible to spectate at effectively on a BTCC weekend. I arguably saw more of the cars from where I spectated during the 24 than I did at the BTCC meetings with the possible exception of the second hour of the race where shade was at a premium and everyone was fighting to get out of the sun.
What I do agree on though is that there are far too many fences located between the cars and the spectators and they make taking photos a real pain, in some places two large fences and a small fence seperate you from the track. Your only option really is to get a spot on the top of one of the banks and stay there.
Likewise, it is impossible to compare watching on tv and watching at the track, the tv gives the impression that there is lots of places to watch from but the reality is that there's not and that accessing most of them is fairly difficult. You also can't see that the crowd is absolutely enormous from watching on tv, if anything the place looks empty especially the stands.
You need to explore Oulton more
hsv - Thanks for sharing that. I've never been to Le Mans but have always wanted to go. I actually had planned to go in 2014 but after seeing the fatal crash on TV in 2013 I reconsidered. I am again seriously thinking I should go and realize danger is part of any motorsport, but the possibility of witnessing such a tragedy is difficult.
In regards to the complaints about too many fences at Le Mans, I've not had to stand by them, but remember what has happened there, especially the accident that almost completely put a stop to motorsports.
Back to the 2015 race, I looked a bit for some data and didn't find it, but I heard a comment that, if the Toyotas had run like they did this year in the 2014 race, they would have won. It's just that Porsche and Audi have become that much faster.
It's also tough to figure speculate historically due to track changes, weather, etc., but I'm curious how much faster the GT cars have gotten over the years as well.
Thanks for sharing @hsv , you reminded me of my son (litle older than you). He's also a sportscars racing fan (he had no choice, lol) and the day Allan died we were both watching the Le Mans coverage (eurosport). Of course we were both struck by it, even I felt it deeply, and I am a fan of racing since eras when race drivers' death was common and almost considered a "part" of it all.
Later he calls me up to his room (walls plastered with racing posters) and he showed me, among them all, the one Allan had signed for him in the Estoril paddock, during the ELMS round of 2011. (430 sponsored by Hancook). I had no memory of it, but he did. It was quite a feeling, seeing that signed photograph piece of paper on his bedroom wall. Still there.
Oulton is the busiest race on the BTCC Calender with circa 55,000 people, I'd say the crowds felt similar, but the crucial differences being that at Oulton, even in the busier areas, you can stretch out and take a lay down on the lush grassy banking areas, or find plenty of shade in the wooded areas, and at the busier areas you can see multi-parts of the track... at Le Mans you really don't see much other than the stretch that's in front of you, and you're jostling with the other 165,000 people that bought a non-grandstand allocated ticket. The other benefit of Oulton, and most circuits, is that you don't necessarily have to walk miles to get anywhere if you do want to change your position - I was properly exhausted by the time I walked from the campsite to Dunlop in the heat carrying my camera bag and backpack, during most of which, you see bugger all... walk around the edge of most conventional tracks, and you can at least see what's going on. The €10 RLM headset really saved the race for me, I gave up, and found somewhere away from the trackside to sit and listen to the race (I could have saved myself several hundred pounds and done that at home!)
Fences are a real issue for me too however, as I said when @Furinkazen posed the question to me at Oulton park, whilst I myself am totally comfortable with the level of safety provided by a bit of armco and some grass banking, I totally understand that a family enjoying a sunny day out at one of the UK's finest circuits needs protecting from cars that may be leaving the track in an unintended, uncontrolled fashion.. so I'll forgive most circuits for it, and with the speed of the cars at Le Mans it's understandable... though a big put-off for me as an amateur snapper.
I can't help but draw comparisons to the Nürburgring 24. Both are races I visited for the first time this year. In almost every respect the N24 beats LM24 hands down and I really feel that a good portion of the N24's accessibility came from it using the GP track also, but even when straying away from the relative safety of the GP track the experience was still worthwhile, that's not something I can say about Le Mans - just IMHO of course. So, getting back to my original point, altering the circuit to use more of the Bugatti circuit, to open up more, and better viewing points, would help to alleviate some of the issues with the rest of the circuit... as far as changing the hallowed tarmac goes, the circuit people know now is the way it is because it changed from what it was 80-90 years ago... all tracks evolve.
@hsv taken by me in April 2008 at Knockhill.