The Must Have Upgrade for any Logitech G Wheel Owner

[Outspacer]

My guess is that the pot is adjusted with the rubber piece in mind, so when removing it the pedal travels beyond the contacts in the pot. Rotating the pot clockwise, or counter clockwise should fix that.

All the pots on mine were at the same rotation, with the contacts pointing out horizontally. They may even have a locating tab, so they can't go on wrong. Anyway, no difference due to the buffer that I could see.

 

[Georgeagea]

Ok I'm home!
I first tried the calibration tip and it didn't change any behavior!
Now i opened the pedals! Just so that you know, i never removed the whole pedal; all i did was removing the upper cylinder as shown in the installation instructions!

 

[Georgeagea]

@Outspacer, can you private msg me your phone number so we can chat on whatsapp or hangouts? I don't wanna spoil this thread furthermore to become a support thread for my issue!

 

[Outspacer]

Well I tested my pedals without buffer with G29 and T300, using Assetto Corsa to get a brake meter. With T300, no problem, meter gets to 100% just a little bit before the pedal does. With G29, meter gets to 100% with pedal only about 75% pressed

I'll test pedals with buffer in a moment........ edit...... Sort of similar, with a few mm of squishy travel still left after the meter gets to 100%. So I think this is just something the G29 does, and it's simply more noticable once the buffer is removed. I'm not sure a simple stopper to limit the travel would help, if it's calibrating to a % of travel; putting the buffer back in might be the only easy option.

We could ask a mod to move this discussion to a new thread... although since we now have some kind of answer for you, it might be useful to others doing the same swap.

 

[Georgeagea]

Yeah after some testing and investigating i discovered that it's neither me doing something wrong, nor the pot was touched, nor an issue!
It's the way the g29 was designed! It is designed to be used with the rubber insert, because when the rubber is completely compressed, it's the point where the brake reaches 100%! But that's not the real travel the pedal can go! It can go like an additional 10mm but that's not possible when the rubber insert is there!
I completely removed the spring and opened the cylinder, and tested the pedal empty! The brake registered 100% at around 80% of the travel, leaving like 2cm of buffer!
I measured the buffer and the rubber and did some calculations! It turned out i needed like a stopper of 12mm!
I cut a wooden thin cylinder and put it instead of the rubber inside the pedal! Now when the brake reaches 100%, it'll reach the wood insert (which is incompressible) and stop!
It's not a great solution, as I'm losing lots of travel, but at least there's no more buffer in brake zone!

 

[Dragonwhisky]

I'll be back home by 9pm GMT, I hope.



"Hello Logitech, I just modified my pedals and now...." bzzzzt

Do the PC settings affect pedals on PS4 at all? I didn't think they did, since it dynamically calibrates.

I've just changed from stock spring with buffer to gteye without, but I'm using them on a T300. Will plug them into my G29 tonight and see what happens.

Well, You could go one of two ways when contacting their tech support. You could just not say anything about the mods and let them know the problem and ask if they have a solution. Or, you could let them know up front your were unsatisfied with the stock performance and chose to add the mods in an effort to customize the product performance to your needs and tastes. Keep in mind, going the route of the latter may indeed void the warranty, but, could also lead to product improvements for you and others.

Something I found I didn't know, whilst researching Logitech, their home base headquarters are in Switzerland. I noticed @Georgeagea appears to be in Lebanon. According to the Wiki article I read Logitech operates in 3 geographic regions, one of which includes Middle Eastern countries. Other than voiding the warranty, what do you really risk by contacting them and being completely honest regarding the issue? They may just decide to help a customer. Of course, they could also decide to not help at all, which is what you have now. The only other option you have is empirical evidence of functionality experimentation by yourself and others and is certainly a viable option. I cannot get to the European support site. Their servers appear to redirect me to the US side of the site, since I'm in the US but you may be able to visit the sites for your area just by loading http://www.logitech.com and it'll redirect you to the nearest site. Click the support link/contact link and have at it.

Holy crap, just noticed who it was that posted above. DW! How goes it fella? been a bit of time!

It goes alright man. Still ghosting around here and there. How's bits with you these days?

 

[Outspacer]

@Georgeagea, at least it's cool that a stopper makes it usable!

So if that works, it should be possible to do the same thing electrically, by putting a resistor inline with the ground connection to the pot. About 3.3 kohm should make the wheel think the pedal is only at 75% when it's fully pressed.


@Dragonwhisky, ok, nothing to risk except the time it takes. It's a big company. You might just get lucky and manage to contact an engineer who actually reveals something useful, but first line support will simply follow the script and (at most) say that the product is intended to work correctly with the buffer in place. I guess that would be useful info if they were that precise about it. Anyway, it seems we've worked it out in a couple of hours on a Friday evening.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

From a personal standpoint, Logitech support is above and beyond. I've several pieces of Logitech gear, speaker sets, headsets, steering wheels, AV remotes, mice, trackballs, keyboards, etc. The only piece I ever had trouble with was the wireless headset that was purchased at the same time as my PS3, DFGT and GT5. A couple years after purchase the power supply went bad. I called US support and they sent me a new one, free of charge. Headset was out of warranty so I figure the first line support I talked with went off script just a tad to send it to me. Of course, this was the US support team and other's mileage may very.

While in a certain sense I guess time spent could be considered a risk but, from where I sit, we're all just taking time until the long dirt nap anyway and every second is risky. Like you said however, it appears ya'll got it figured out without involving the folks that built the thing.

 

[Georgeagea]

@Georgeagea, at least it's cool that a stopper makes it usable!

So if that works, it should be possible to do the same thing electrically, by putting a resistor inline with the ground connection to the pot. About 3.3 kohm should make the wheel think the pedal is only at 75% when it's fully pressed.

I'm not into electronics man, at least making them! I love tech but don't understand electricity and electronics!

Funny side story, when i was in the university, i discovered my love about programming! But being in a public cheap uni, i had 3 options : electrical engineering, civil engineering and mechanical engineering. So i obviously went for electrical engineering because there's lots of programming courses, automation etc... It turned out that nearly half of the courses are electricity related...
I hated electricity to the extent where i left the major and jumped ship to civil engineering...
I love concrete things (pun unintended), stuff that i can see and understand or see and test! I never understood such a fictional thing as electricity and electrons moving or maybe protons i forgot etc... I really hate it...

 

[Outspacer]

I'm not into electronics man, at least making them! I love tech but don't understand electricity and electronics!

Funny side story, when i was in the university, i discovered my love about programming! But being in a public cheap uni, i had 3 options : electrical engineering, civil engineering and mechanical engineering. So i obviously went for electrical engineering because there's lots of programming courses, automation etc... It turned out that nearly half of the courses are electricity related...
I hated electricity to the extent where i left the major and jumped ship to civil engineering...
I love concrete things (pun unintended), stuff that i can see and understand or see and test! I never understood such a fictional thing as electricity and electrons moving or maybe protons i forgot etc... I really hate it...

Fair enough, I might give it try though TBH, the physical side of it will take me longer than the design - getting some some of those tiny spade connectors to plug it in, soldering, wrapping, etc!

 

[Georgeagea]

Give it a go and lemme know if it works! Might do it if there's a detailed guide! That wooden stopped isn't ideal since I'm losing like 1 to 1.5cm of travel!

 

[Rallywagon]

I don't expect that this will work. The pots internal physical contacts likely stop at that 80% pedal position. Adding a resistor will not add more contacts to be read in the pot. That 80% point will still be the spot it stops.
You will need to rotate the pot so that the pedal hits it's physical limits at the same time the pot does. Looking at my pedals, which I have the benefit of them not being in the case, the pot would need to rotate clockwise.
It does appear that some holes may need to be drilled. The pot isn't screwed down, but has two tabs that slot into holes in the pedal mount. A shaft that also slots through the mount then has the gear armature attached and all is held in place by a retaining ring.
Remove the ring, pull off the armature, remove the pot,, drill two new holes about 5-10° degrees clockwise*, then reinstall the pot and armature and that should take care of it.
Or, just keep using the wood plug you've put in, as that is already there and working for you.

Edit: that should be "5-10° counter clockwise..."

 

[Rallywagon]

So, this is the gear. That metal clip holds that gear to the shaft of the pot, and keeps the pot pressed against the mount. That hole in the mount above the gear is what is used to align the pot. There is another below the gear as well. I was wrong about the direction in the above post though. The pot needs to be rotated counter clockwise a few degrees.

 

[super_gt]

Guys before doing something check whether potentiometer gear of the brake is in the same position as the accelerator/clutch position just in case of accidental displacement.

about 5-10° degrees

This must be very precise or you get dead zone at the beginning of travel.
(I hope this image helps)

 

[Outspacer]

I don't expect that this will work. The pots internal physical contacts likely stop at that 80% pedal position. Adding a resistor will not add more contacts to be read in the pot. That 80% point will still be the spot it stops.
You will need to rotate the pot so that the pedal hits it's physical limits at the same time the pot does. Looking at my pedals, which I have the benefit of them not being in the case, the pot would need to rotate clockwise.
It does appear that some holes may need to be drilled. The pot isn't screwed down, but has two tabs that slot into holes in the pedal mount. A shaft that also slots through the mount then has the gear armature attached and all is held in place by a retaining ring.
Remove the ring, pull off the armature, remove the pot,, drill two new holes about 5-10° degrees clockwise*, then reinstall the pot and armature and that should take care of it.
Or, just keep using the wood plug you've put in, as that is already there and working for you.

Edit: that should be "5-10° counter clockwise..."

I can't agree with rotating the pot, TBH. As @super_gt says, it would affect both the inital deadzone and the final value read out when fully pressed. All of that assembly has locating pins and I don't see any benefit in messing with them.

BTW, now that the stopper is found to work, I think we can assume that the G29 wheel does not calibrate the brake pedal. Otherwise it would adapt to the stopper.

The resistor should work, because what we'd be trying to do is reduce the electrical range of output from the pot. I know the pot doesn't range fully from 0k to 10k, but for explaining why the resistor would work it's not important. Say for now that it has that range. With 3.3k in series with the ground (fully pressed) end, that becomes the new minimum of the pot, so it ranges from 3.3k to 13.3k, i.e. 75% of what it was initially. Exactly the same effect as the stopper, but with full travel. The wheel sees 100% pressed as 75% pressed, which it outputs as 100% because it's designed for a bung preventing full travel.

That the pot doesn't quite travel its full range can be compensated for by adjusting the resistor value; 3.3k is just the ballpark starting value.

 

[Georgeagea]

To sum it up from my side (since I started the rumbling here):

- It seems this mod is made with G25 and G27 in mind. They never actually tested it on the G29.

- The G29 works differently to the G25/27. The included rubber insert is actually there for a reason. In addition to increasing the firmness of the pedal and trying to emulate real feeling brakes, it also regulates the amount of pedal travel. The maximum possible amount of compression/shortening coincides exactly to the 100% brake (or the max rotation of the pot). Anything beyond that point is useless/wasted.

- My pots were exactly aligned and similar and perfect and untouched. I never touched those! All I did was opening the cylinder as instructed and changed the springs.

- I'm really disappointed and I wish I knew this before ordering this mod. I tried to stimulate some answers and made some research but no one ever mentioned this.

- I even asked if this mod should be used in conjunction with the built-in rubber insert, and responses varied; but I'm now shocked how some claimed to be using it without the rubber and never noticed or mentioned the deadzone in the brake! i.e. the last 12mm of travel are all 100% brake pressure.

- I bought this mod to eliminate the huge pressure needed on the pedal to reach 100% brake! Well technically this mod eliminated this problem but created another one. I'm not sure what to do now; whether i should revert to initially built-in brake system or keep this one and get used to it!

 

[fatkrakr]

To sum it up from my side (since I started the rumbling here):

- It seems this mod is made with G25 and G27 in mind. They never actually tested it on the G29.

- The G29 works differently to the G25/27. The included rubber insert is actually there for a reason. In addition to increasing the firmness of the pedal and trying to emulate real feeling brakes, it also regulates the amount of pedal travel. The maximum possible amount of compression/shortening coincides exactly to the 100% brake (or the max rotation of the pot). Anything beyond that point is useless/wasted.

- My pots were exactly aligned and similar and perfect and untouched. I never touched those! All I did was opening the cylinder as instructed and changed the springs.

- I'm really disappointed and I wish I knew this before ordering this mod. I tried to stimulate some answers and made some research but no one ever mentioned this.

- I even asked if this mod should be used in conjunction with the built-in rubber insert, and responses varied; but I'm now shocked how some claimed to be using it without the rubber and never noticed or mentioned the deadzone in the brake! i.e. the last 12mm of travel are all 100% brake pressure.

- I bought this mod to eliminate the huge pressure needed on the pedal to reach 100% brake! Well technically this mod eliminated this problem but created another one. I'm not sure what to do now; whether i should revert to initially built-in brake system or keep this one and get used to it!

If you "clock" the pot as has been suggested here several times you can resolve the issue. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ogitech-g25-g27-pedal-pontentiometers.247510/ That guide shows how to completely disassemble the pot. Make some adjustments and you will get the 100% travel your looking for. You can "clock" it by slightly rotating the whole pot, adjust it by changing the gear location or you can disassemble the pot and adjust it internally by shifting the pick up (round piece with tracers inside pot). I personally would start with rotating the whole pot to see if that gets you enough.

 

[Outspacer]

If you "clock" the pot as has been suggested here several times you can resolve the issue. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ogitech-g25-g27-pedal-pontentiometers.247510/ That guide shows how to completely disassemble the pot. Make some adjustments and you will get the 100% travel your looking for. You can "clock" it by slightly rotating the whole pot, adjust it by changing the gear location or you can disassemble the pot and adjust it internally by shifting the pick up (round piece with tracers inside pot). I personally would start with rotating the whole pot to see if that gets you enough.

As has been said more than once in response to those suggestions, that will cause a deadzone at the top of the travel.

Have you done this yourself? So far it seems like nobody who's suggested it has actually done it!

 

[fatkrakr]

As has been said more than once in response to those suggestions, that will cause a deadzone at the top of the travel.

Have you done this yourself? So far it seems like nobody who's suggested it has actually done it!

Yes I have done this though not on purpose. I always had my G27 pedals out of the case and inverted. The misses cleaning would sometimes (I assume) bump a pot with the vaccum hose. That would either give it a deadzone at the top or bottom of travel, a slight twist would always resolve my issue.

that will cause a deadzone

This tells me you have never tried adjusting the pot. If you had you know the pot has a bit of extra range thats not used.

 

[Outspacer]

Yes I have done this though not on purpose. I always had my G27 pedals out of the case and inverted. The misses cleaning would sometimes (I assume) bump a pot with the vaccum hose. That would either give it a deadzone at the top or bottom of travel, a slight twist would always resolve my issue.



This tells me you have never tried adjusting the pot. If you had you know the pot has a bit of extra range thats not used.

You say it gives a deadzone. Which you fix. This confirms that clocking it would not work.

You have G27, not G29. This problem is G29 specific, AFAIK.

There's about 5% unused at each end. That's nowhere near enough to lose 25% off one end.

I don't have a problem with my G29 pedals with a T300, but anyway, why would I try something that involves drilling and wouldn't work?!

 

[fatkrakr]

You say it gives a deadzone. Which you fix. This confirms that clocking it would not work.

You have G27, not G29. This problem is G29 specific, AFAIK.

There's about 5% unused at each end. That's nowhere near enough to lose 25% off one end.

I don't have a problem with my G29 pedals with a T300, but anyway, why would I try something that involves drilling and wouldn't work?!

It can be moved off its contact points, but Im not gonna argue the point with you. The OP can solve the issue if he chooses too.

 

[Outspacer]

It can be moved off its contact points, but Im not gonna argue the point with you. The OP can sole the issue if he choose too.

You say you won't. Then in the next sentence you argue that clocking will solve it. It won't.

 

[super_gt]

At least with my Logitech DFGT and T150 the usable range of the potentiometer is approximately that big(in red)

Outside this range is a dead zone.
You can find out how big is the usable range as you remove the potentiometer from the pedals and rotate it by hand without disconnecting wires and wheel plugged in the PC(Logitech Gaming Software)this is how you will find out is there a point to clock the potentiometer.

 

[Outspacer]

I measured the output voltage range of stock G29 pedals (with buffer) a while ago. Converted into percentages they are:

Clutch: 4.5% .. 92.4%
Brake: 5.8% .. 82.9%
Gas: 4.8% .. 94.4%

Obviously without the buffer the brake would be more like the gas or clutch. When I did that I was pressing the brake far harder than would be comfortable to race with, so in practice, take a few % off that 82.9%. The buffer starts to be felt at about 54% output.

Not enough adjustment available there, without dragging the other end into the deadzone.

edit: just to be clear, the issue is in how the G29 wheelbase reads the pedals. The pedals themselves output a full range when the buffer is removed. It isn't that the wiper is going off the end of the contact area when fully pressed.

 

[Rallywagon]

I am the one that said to drill the mount and clock the pot that way. I didn't not realize at the time the pots shaft was splined. I though it notched like would be used for a set screw. If the pots shaft is splined, then the only thing that would need to be done is to move the geared armature a tooth clockwise or counterclockwise.
It certainly can't be argued that the issue isn't g29 specific. That is abundantly clear to be the case. However, I am fairly certain that clocking the pot will work.
However, why bother if the wood block works? Clearly travel won't be less than stock for it. another half inch of travel isn't going to equate to much of a difference when driving.

 

[Outspacer]

I just tried adding a 3.3 kohm resistor onto the end of the pot, and it works perfectly. Normal (tiny) deadzone at the top, and fully pressed is 100% (using AC's in-game meter) with a very tiny deadzone. I'd perhaps recommend 3.2 kohm instead, which would make the deadzone slightly larger, just to make sure that 100% throttle is reachable. That's annoying, because it's not a standard value, but ok, it's a two-resistor mod at most

Still haven't found any of those spade terminals though. The tag on the pot is 2.8mm wide, but only 0.8mm thick. Standard ones that are 2.8mm are thicker.

... move the geared armature a tooth clockwise or counterclockwise.

Damnit, I just had my pedals apart and could've checked! But I suspect you can't because I think it uses all of the teeth.
Besides, same problem as....

However, I am fairly certain that clocking the pot will work.

Honestly, I am certain that it wouldn't. To fix the fully-pressed end, the pot would need to be clocked round by 25% of it's travel. But there's only 5% spare at the beginning, so you'd just end up with 20% or more deadzone at the top.

 

[Rallywagon]

I just tried adding a 3.3 kohm resistor onto the end of the pot, and it works perfectly. Normal (tiny) deadzone at the top, and fully pressed is 100% (using AC's in-game meter) with a very tiny deadzone. I'd perhaps recommend 3.2 kohm instead, which would make the deadzone slightly larger, just to make sure that 100% throttle is reachable. That's annoying, because it's not a standard value, but ok, it's a two-resistor mod at most

Still haven't found any of those spade terminals though. The tag on the pot is 2.8mm wide, but only 0.8mm thick. Standard ones that are 2.8mm are thicker.





Damnit, I just had my pedals apart and could've checked! But I suspect you can't because I think it uses all of the teeth.
Besides, same problem as....



Honestly, I am certain that it wouldn't. To fix the fully-pressed end, the pot would need to be clocked round by 25% of it's travel. But there's only 5% spare at the beginning, so you'd just end up with 20% or more deadzone at the top.

Hmmmm. You said you've taken the multi meter to the pots before. Were they registering zero with released pedals? If so then I concede. But if not, then it should possible. Also, to clarify, I meant tooth of the spline shaft, not of the gear set used by the pedal and armature. I suppose I should have just said spline instead of tooth.
I am a bit surprised to see however, that asking in the resistor did work. Not that I doubted the premise. Just that I thought the physical limit on the pot itself was being reached. It's odd that Logitech would program in such a hard stop considering how the wheels initial calibration works.


Edit:
Ok, I just reread the end of that post. You think it would take a full quarter of a turn on the pot to get rid of the dead zone? I am not convinced. Unless the G27 and the G29 have completely different gear sets then it is only about 80° of travel from released to fully depressed. Not even a quarter turn on its own. Another half inch (actually, what is the extra length of travel, was that mentioned?) of travel would hardly need more than 10° to clear that. One rotation of the splines.
Actually. I'm curious now to see if the G27 has the same hard stop. I might move the pot myself and see.

 

[Outspacer]

Hmmmm. You said you've taken the multi meter to the pots before. Were they registering zero with released pedals? If so then I concede. But if not, then it should possible. Also, to clarify, I meant tooth of the spline shaft, not of the gear set used by the pedal and armature. I suppose I should have just said spline instead of tooth.
I am a bit surprised to see however, that asking in the resistor did work. Not that I doubted the premise. Just that I thought the physical limit on the pot itself was being reached. It's odd that Logitech would program in such a hard stop considering how the wheels initial calibration works.


Edit:
Ok, I just reread the end of that post. You think it would take a full quarter of a turn on the pot to get rid of the dead zone? I am not convinced. Unless the G27 and the G29 have completely different gear sets then it is only about 80° of travel from released to fully depressed. Not even a quarter turn on its own. Another half inch (actually, what is the extra length of travel, was that mentioned?) of travel would hardly need more than 10° to clear that. One rotation of the splines.
Actually. I'm curious now to see if the G27 has the same hard stop. I might move the pot myself and see.

I didn't say a quarter turn, I said 25% meaning of its usable travel. So if it's 80° overall, then about 20°.

I prefer to talk in % terms, because it applies to both rotation (within the usable range) and the eventual voltage output. It gets around the fact that G29 wheel runs the pots 'upside down' - released is close to +3.3V, and pressed is close to 0V. So when saying the brake (with buffer) output ranges from 5.8% to 82.9%, that translates into 3.1V to 0.56V. Which is annoying to calculate with.

The shaft of the pots in G29 pedals isn't splined, it's D-shaped.

G29 doesn't calibrate the brake pedal (at least) dynamically. I swapped in different resistors and it took no notice. It appears to have a fixed calibration that reads 3.1V or higher as released, and 1.3V or lower as fully pressed (approximately). In that case, clocking the pot round at all will introduce a deadzone at the start.

As said before, the deadzone at the fully pressed end is because of the wheel's assumption that there's a buffer limiting travel. Not that the pot is going beyond it's range.

I don't know if the G27 wheelbase calibrates dynamically or just uses a different fixed calibration. Either way, it clearly manages to read a range of about 5% to 95%.

Travel... I think I've read before that the springs compress about 40mm, but that might well be a very rough or mis-remembered value. We've heard that a 12mm stopper covers the deadzone, and takes out about 25% of the pedal travel. The G29's bung is 24mm and starts to be felt about half-way down.

The resistor mod with 3.3 kohm squashes the output voltage range upwards by about 35%, turning 3.1V to 0.3V into 3.15V to 1.3V. It does also increase the deadzone at the top of the pedal by a very small amount, only about 1mm (I think), which I hadn't noticed in practice. To avoid that would take more circuitry than a single humble resistor! (edit: actually, just another resistor inline with the pot at the other end would do it. Much smaller value, maybe 150 ohms).

 

[Rallywagon]

The g27 is definitely dynamic. I've in fact used it as a drifting technique. Give the car full rear bias in gt5. As long as your lightning. The brakes you can get a few laps in using it as a sort of ebrake. I also managed to lock up the brakes and kiss the wall on the first corner a few times during league races. That's actually what led me to try the drift thing.
Good info in the pots too. This might explain why some of my pedal experiments using a g27 and the momo wheel I started with didn't pan out.

 

[Outspacer]

The g27 is definitely dynamic.

Yeah, I must've been tired - people using bungs with G27 didn't lose range, after all

The resistor mod with 3.3 kohm squashes the output voltage range upwards by about 35%, turning 3.1V to 0.3V into 3.15V to 1.3V. It does also increase the deadzone at the top of the pedal by a very small amount, only about 1mm (I think), which I hadn't noticed in practice. To avoid that would take more circuitry than a single humble resistor! (edit: actually, just another resistor inline with the pot at the other end would do it. Much smaller value, maybe 150 ohms).

Problem. I made up a neat little bundle of connectors and 3.3k resistor and fitted it to my second set of pedals. Still quite a deadzone, much more than with my other pedals. Measured the pot and second one is only 9.1k, compared to about 9.9k on my first. Of all 6 of the pots it is the worst by a long way.

So, the revised solution will be a variable 5k trimmer pot instead. I plan to build it onto some strip board and sticky tape it inside the base of the brake pedal, so that it can be adjusted without opening the pedals up.

Seeing as tolerance is so loose on these pots, there must be quite some difference amongst stock G29 pedals for the force needed to get full braking, as it's magnified by the bung's non-linear compression rate. My first set certainly needed a very firm press. As a wild guesstimate, the second set could need only half the force!!