The new AI - your thoughts

[LarryL]

I've experienced nothing but drivers like what I described bar the very rare case - I have no tolerance for drivers like that and will often quit and go and do something else.

I've never been apologised to, ever. I get shunted off the road simply for having the cheek to be faster than some kid, I don't see how that makes playing GT online more desirable than anything else. Sure the lack of championships and ingame incentive for winning helps people not be asshats but the fact remains that even if you're at the back of the pack people with no hope of winning will simply go out of their way to end your race. I've had more respectful races in Grand Theft Auto Online than I have in GT6 online - so I'm sure you can see why I feel the way I do.



Intentionally ramming other drivers is rather frowned upon, I don't recall saying anything about them going off the track resulting in a black flag - I am referring to them swerving into other drivers, into their racing line and smashing into them under braking when not even attempting to hit the brakes.

Not to mention all the times they've tried the PIT maneuver on me as they try to swerve into their racing line despite me clearly being next to them when I had right of way at corner entry.

I find it hard to believe our online experiences in the same exact game could be so different. Especially when I'm the kind of online racer who exclusively (almost) joins public rooms, not private friend rooms. I join a room that says "CLEAN" in the title, and honestly, if that room has 16 people in it, maybe 1 or 2 end up being idiots. And those idiots promptly get booted for their troubles as soon as a good host sees or hears about some nonsense going on. And after every race you see texts about "hey, my bad for this bump and that block." Things that don't even end up in wrecks. This is a STANDARD affair in PUBLIC ROOMS on a nightly basis.

I mean it sounds to me like you're joining "dirty" racing rooms.....which are usually clearly marked, expecting clean racing then getting pissed off about it when you get dumped. Literally I can think of about a half dozen times since GT5 launched right through now on GT6, that I joined a room tagged "clean" that ended up being populated with dirty racers. And in that rare event, it doesn't take much effort to exit out and search out a clean room.

Edit_ And just to add a point. I pretty much search out room that are "clean", but with a tolerance for some bumping and blocking, because like I said, I believe in "Rubbin's Racin'".......and I don't like nazis or thought police. But there are also far more hardcore rooms usually marked something like "Pro Clean". These rooms are people who take online racing very seriously and typically have absolutely zero tolerance for any kind of bumping or blocking or any other kind of shananigans. You'd probably be quite at home in these rooms from the sound of it.

 

[ironman44321]

If I'm not mistaken that option is only for Arcade races? I don't believe it extends to A-spec and seasonals.

That's certainly possible, to be honest I just set it to 10 when I got the game and forgot about it.

 

[Aquarelle]

I find it hard to believe our online experiences in the same exact game could be so different. Especially when I'm the kind of online racer who exclusively (almost) joins public rooms, not private friend rooms. I join a room that says "CLEAN" in the title, and honestly, if that room has 16 people in it, maybe 1 or 2 end up being idiots. And those idiots promptly get booted for their troubles as soon as a good host sees or hears about some nonsense going on. And after every race you see texts about "hey, my bad for this bump and that block." Things that don't even end up in wrecks. This is a STANDARD affair in PUBLIC ROOMS on a nightly basis.

I mean it sounds to me like you're joining "dirty" racing rooms.....which are usually clearly marked, expecting clean racing then getting pissed off about it when you get dumped. Literally I can think of about a half dozen times since GT5 launched right through now on GT6, that I joined a room tagged "clean" that ended up being populated with dirty racers. And in that rare event, it doesn't take much effort to exit out and search out a clean room.

That could be down to many things, primarily however I would imagine it would be down to location.

I play on EU/AU servers primarily during oceanic peak hours, my guess would be it's the different fan base the pair of us are playing with (However given your location isn't declared on your profile I can only guess)

I've never joined a dirty room, I solely join rooms marked "clean or boot" or similar - yet it's never or rather very rarely the case; I often end up quitting long before any action ends up being taken against these muppets.

I understand what you're saying but after several rooms in a row of dirty racing I lose my patience with it and simply create a private lobby and play by myself.

 

[Imari]

I've seen plenty of games with AI that can get off the line, and that would be the ONLY time anything but a hardcore AI is going to pass a decent human racer... without an extremely tight rubber band anyway.

What are you considering "hardcore AI", because depending what you mean by that I may or may not agree with you.

Aside from PCars, I've never seen an AI that impresses me enough to convince me it's people.

You should play Game Stock Car, if you haven't already. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Assetto Corsa has moments. Sometimes it's amazing to race against, others it's simply OK.

Luckily, that level of AI is just an option in PCars from what I hear and the default AI won't be that hardcore. But if people were forced to play against that AI, they'll drop that game based on frustration just as fast as they picked it up based on it's amazing visuals and their hope for a "GT Killer".

You know that you can adjust how speedy the AI are in pCARS, right? It's not one size fits all Michael-Schumachers-in-a-box. Or at least, it wasn't last time I played against them, I haven't played with the AI on pCARS in a while.



It's probably good for me to mention again how I judge AI. I spend a fair bit of time in rookie races on iRacing. These are people who are enthusiastic enough about racing to spend a reasonable amount of money on a subscription, a decent computer and a wheel. If the AI in a game can give me a race that's as clean and competitive as an average rookie race, or better, then I think that's pretty good.

There aren't really any games that I'd say do this every single race. But there are several that will regularly produce a good race (say, half of the time or more), and more games that will occasionally do so.

GT6 unfortunately, almost never does, and when it does it's due to extensive interaction on the part of the player to produce a favourable situation.

 

[jr93alty]

I finally played the A-spec seasonals and have to say that I'm not impressed. I only got to Willow Springs so I haven't done the expert one yet but Willow was lame. I made up 25 seconds in 3 laps and then was tailed by second place by less than 2 seconds and all 5 of my laps were within a second of each other. So it's not better AI in my opinion, just rubberbanding turned up to 11. The second place car basically ran his first three laps 8 seconds slower (each) than his final 2. That's lame. As long as we play chase the rabbit and there is rubberbanding with cars on rails that you cannot affect the same way they affect you, I'll think the AI of this game sucks like it always has. If I didn't just like driving cars and tinkering with them and the occasional screw around online, I'd never buy this game.

 

[tomcat66]

Can I please have a video? I would like to see what this AI is about.

I have just found this video channel having all 3 races (here is the Suzuka race). But I am sure there are more out there on Youtube:

 

[ukfan758]

I like that the AI make more mistakes now (like Grid 1) but they are now even slower most of the time or have outrageous random boosts in performance. I have a feeling that b-spec is near .

 

[SCER]

I like that the AI make more mistakes now (like Grid 1) but they are now even slower most of the time or have outrageous random boosts in performance. I have a feeling that b-spec is near .

AI becoming more illogical and unpredictable, making stupid mistakes = B-spec is soon

 

[ironman44321]

I like that the AI make more mistakes now (like Grid 1) but they are now even slower most of the time or have outrageous random boosts in performance. I have a feeling that b-spec is near .

All joking aside that might not be far off from the truth. Maybe they're tinkering with the AI before they release B-spec. All speculation of course, but with the way things have been going with GT6 it wouldn't be surprising.

 

[Imari]

All joking aside that might not be far off from the truth. Maybe they're tinkering with the AI before they release B-spec. All speculation of course, but with the way things have been going with GT6 it wouldn't be surprising.

I can't imagine what they could possibly be doing with B Spec that they haven't released it already.

 

[SCER]

I can't imagine what they could possibly be doing with B Spec that they haven't released it already.

Working on different AI driving styles/behaviours, so that B-spec mode isn't just a series of formation laps, which is what it would be if they just used the current A-spec AI.

 

[Imari]

Working on different AI driving styles/behaviours, so that B-spec mode isn't just a series of formation laps, which is what it would be if they just used the current A-spec AI.

Ah, an optimist.

Well, we can all hope that when B Spec is released we get both a new mode that is entertaining and deep in it's strategy AND improved AI.

I think I'll buy a lottery ticket while I'm at it.

 

[SCER]

Ah, an optimist.

Well, we can all hope that when B Spec is released we get both a new mode that is entertaining and deep in it's strategy AND improved AI.

I think I'll buy a lottery ticket while I'm at it.

I'm not even being particularly optimistic, they need to make a more varied/accident-prone AI because otherwise GT6 B-spec will be a formation lap series, far more so than GT5.

 

[NixxxoN]

Anyway, as I always said, AI is and will be "dumb" and its not real intelligence, so its always better to play against other (good) players.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That could be down to many things, primarily however I would imagine it would be down to location.

I play on EU/AU servers primarily during oceanic peak hours, my guess would be it's the different fan base the pair of us are playing with (However given your location isn't declared on your profile I can only guess)

I've never joined a dirty room, I solely join rooms marked "clean or boot" or similar - yet it's never or rather very rarely the case; I often end up quitting long before any action ends up being taken against these muppets.

I understand what you're saying but after several rooms in a row of dirty racing I lose my patience with it and simply create a private lobby and play by myself.

Online racing is for the most part a crapshoot as you say, and not a viable alternative to offline racing at this point. I only join circuit racing rooms on reasonable tires and if there's qualifying and you start in front and there are some decently fast drivers, you can sometimes get a good race with some mutual respect. Starting in the back or worse, reverse grids, forces you to go through the mid and back packers and their respect on the circuit leaves a lot to be desired. Using you as a guardrail or extra brake is the norm. Running you off the circuit without an apology is typical. I know when a mistake is just a mistake because you get an instant apology after the race which rarely happens. No apology and I assume it's intentional.

With next gen on the horizon and most other games providing very competitive, scalable AI, this is an absolute must for GT7. GT6 is a write off. The lack of processing power that necessitates rolling starts and a chase the rabbit style of gameplay will never lead to good racing or good AI because you will always have to be 5+ seconds per lap faster than the fastest car in order to have a chance at victory.

 

[ironman44321]

I can't imagine what they could possibly be doing with B Spec that they haven't released it already.

uuuhhh...You read my post about what they might be doing with B-spec that would keep them from releasing it yet and replied saying you can't think of anything they might be doing with B-spec that would keep them from releasing it yet...

Are you okay?

 

[apexpredator100]

I don't see what's so challenging about beating the Huarya in the last race at Suzuka. I easily overtaked Huarya in my ZZII in lap 4, and beat it by a wide margin.

 

[bluemoon_19]

I have yet to try the last race but the other 2 races seem to have the same poor AI as always here is a pic that shows my point.

I can't remember how much power I added but surely a car like this should shouldn't be close yet alone win against the field it was racing against.

 

[SCER]

I have yet to try the last race but the other 2 races seem to have the same poor AI as always here is a pic that shows my point.

I can't remember how much power I added but surely a car like this should shouldn't be close yet alone win against the field it was racing against.

To be fair the City Turbo can be tuned to around 500pp. It looks bad, but a fully tuned City Turbo can race against a stock F430 Scud.

 

[Z1-AV69]

I'm not impressed either. They seem to be slightly quicker which is probably mostly because they use the best available tyres unlike in A-Spec.

The problem is the chase-the-rabbit format. At Suzuka you got 5 laps and 11 cars to pass to catch up a 20 sec lead. You need a car ca. 5 sec quicker than the leader to catch it, simple math. Now of course "battling" a 5 sec slower car for a pass is no battle. In most real-life racing series the difference between the quickest and the slowest is much less. In F1 its a battle Mercedes vs. Marussia or something. Of course that isn't a fight, it can't be.

But I'm all with @LarryL regarding online racing. The average online player in a no SRF room is more clean than the AI. Of course it's best with people doing it on a regular basis. The problem with GT6 online is the lack of players.

 

[bluemoon_19]

To be fair the City Turbo can be tuned to around 500pp. It looks bad, but a fully tuned City Turbo can race against a stock F430 Scud.

Yeah just checked now and the City Turbo had 489 PP. But a stock F430 has 540 PP so still the F430 should have better handling and it has 60 more PP


Sorry Picture quality is bad took an my phone lol but I got the thing down to 475PP and still won.
Give it a few minutes to show literally just uploaded now.

 

[Smuttysy]

It seems to me that, for the Suzuka event at least, they've been programmed with the old B-Spec "stress" levels and pit command system. I say this only as I've followed a Ford GT into the hairpin quite close and it outbrakes itself into the gravel, but if I'm ahead of it enough it'll take the corner without incident. This was done during the same session (retry event) so the AI's "script" should not have changed.
This may also confirm why they can end up having incidents with each other, suddenly tear off into the distance (increase pace command) and often become less competent on the final lap. I've had them moving across my incoming path on the back straight too (hold position)
That said, I had a Viper embed itself completely in the tyre complex at the final chicane, to the degree that it took nearly 30 seconds to get itself out again, at the end of the first lap!

Personally though, I like the change, as there's an element of unpredictability that is a nice change from the usual "will not deviate from path" system. I'd love to see this rolled out across all the A-Spec events, not just seasonals.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

They are a little quicker which is welcome but then it decides to brake 50m-75m later than it usually would. The accidents seem forced somehow and there is still no impression of racing against a competitor that is thinking for itself.

 

[Polsixe]

Yeah just checked now and the City Turbo had 489 PP. But a stock F430 has 540 PP so still the F430 should have better handling and it has 60 more PP


Sorry Picture quality is bad took an my phone lol but I got the thing down to 475PP and still won.
Give it a few minutes to show literally just uploaded now.

It does say it is an "Intermediate" event, ie an expert driver like yourself will be able to win with much lower PP. There is some rubber banding to let the intermediates a chance to pass. I can expect an intermediate driver, a bronze license holder, would have a good race with 550pp cars. If it is so easy go to the expert event.

 

[KWZX10]

I just noticed them making more mistakes.
@Smuttysy is probably right about the stress factor just like gt5 b-spec, i was second at suzuka and the first car spun when i was reaching it.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Sorry Picture quality is bad took an my phone lol but I got the thing down to 475PP and still won.

Probably another event that could be won in reverse gear, maybe give that a try?

 

[baldgye]

I liked the fact that I wasn't ever crashed into but the rubber banding was not so great... still didn't offer much in the way of an actual challenge and barely represented actual motor racing

 

[DSkywalker01]

AI are much improved. Mistakes seem a bit scripted, but that is okay.

Want to see them in a standing start.

 

[Imari]

uuuhhh...You read my post about what they might be doing with B-spec that would keep them from releasing it yet and replied saying you can't think of anything they might be doing with B-spec that would keep them from releasing it yet...

Are you okay?

Oh, you actually think that they're going to improve the AI.

I said I couldn't imagine what they would be doing. I can't imagine PD actually doing serious work to improve the AI, because that would result in us getting decent AI. It's not rocket surgery. If they haven't managed it in the last ten years, I don't see why they'd start now.

Same argument as the sounds really. There's nothing holding them back if they wanted to do sounds or AI well. Other than their irrational need to have the shiniest cars with the most polys in the world, and everything else must be secondary to that. They simply dinna have the power, Cap'n.


But you're another optimist, I see. You can join this guy.

I'm not even being particularly optimistic, they need to make a more varied/accident-prone AI because otherwise GT6 B-spec will be a formation lap series, far more so than GT5.

I agree completely. They do need to. Gran Turismo has desperately needed better AI since at least GT4.

The optimism is the part where you think they're actually going to improve it. GT6 AI is arguably worse than GT5/GT5P AI (because it's GT5+rubberband). They're going the wrong way.

 

[DeriaHanuj]

*drives a BMW* *Mercedes misses chicane and slams into wall*

Day Complete.

(if you're a BMW fan you know why)