The Nissan Juke: We Talk About It

[Legro]

It's mostly just a guess on my part (although there is such a thing in development) but most news sites are saying this might be the "Z Crossover" which I am really hoping all turns out to be some sort of hoax or large spreading of incorrect information.

Some sort of Z crossover without actually being a Z-car isn't impossible either, although maybe not as likely as Qashqai Coupe or larger Juke type of car.

It's worth remembering that proportions can change - the current Juke followed the Qazana concept. The production car definitely had similarities to the concept, but the concept's proportions were significantly exaggerated.

The thing is, the Qazana is still a compact crossover, and it instantly shows in the way it looks. I can't say the same about what the new concept appears to be, which doesn't instantly exclude the possibility of the new Juke turning out to be based on it, but will likely cause the car to have different proportions, which usually causes the car to have styling quite largely altered from the concept as well.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Some sort of Z crossover without actually being a Z-car isn't impossible either, although maybe not as likely as Qashqai Coupe or larger Juke type of car.

I have a hard time believing that Nissan would throw away 40 years of heritage with the Z car just to cash in on the latest crossover fad, and if they think it would sell based on the Z badging alone they are sorely mistaken. They would piss off more enthusiasts than gain new customers with the move, I'm sure.

 

[Legro]

I have a hard time believing that Nissan would throw away 40 years of heritage with the Z car just to cash in on the latest crossover fad, and if they think it would sell based on the Z badging alone they are sorely mistaken. They would piss off more enthusiasts than gain new customers with the move, I'm sure.

Well I was actually thinking of a crossover based on the same platform as the next Z, but without a Z badges. I don't think that they'd have the same grille as the other Nissan cars on an actual Z-car, as it's something I'd imagine them wanting to keep bit separate from the rest of the model range.

 

[homeforsummer]

They would piss off more enthusiasts than gain new customers with the move, I'm sure.

I'd be surprised if 370Zs sell in a year what Jukes or Qashqais do in a week worldwide. I'm not saying I'd prefer a crossover Z-car, but I think you're massively overstating the volume of enthusiasts to regular customers.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'd be surprised if 370Zs sell in a year what Jukes or Qashqais do in a week worldwide. I'm not saying I'd prefer a crossover Z-car, but I think you're massively overstating the volume of enthusiasts to regular customers.

Well I don't think the Z was ever supposed to be a mass produced car anyway. It's more of a niche product, although if Nissan is smart and gives us a 4-cylinder entry level version for FR-S money then there's a chance they could pick up some additional sales. But trying to pull more sales out of it by morphing it into an SUV isn't going to go over well with a lot of people. If they want a sporty SUV, fine, make one. But putting a Z badge on it is the wrong move.

 

[homeforsummer]

But putting a Z badge on it is the wrong move.

I agree.

But you seem to be implying that Nissan would hope to re-attract a few thousand old Z customers with a crossover (and presumably fail), rather than what would actually happen, which is that it would launch a new sporty crossover badged whatever, and the hundreds of thousands of crossover buyers worldwide would buy it in huge volumes.

In other words, losing a few thousand Z buyers is completely inconsequential, whatever it's called. Okay, there's a goodwill issue there and no doubt a few twelve-year-olds who can't drive yet might be put off buying a Nissan in the future, but as the company's existing crossovers have proven, it's a hell of a lot more lucrative making those than it is small-volume rear-drive sports cars.

And they still have GT-Rs sitting in dealerships if they need a sporty halo model.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And they still have GT-Rs sitting in dealerships if they need a sporty halo model.

Sure, if you have $100k laying around.

 

[homeforsummer]

Sure, if you have $100k laying around.

Who says a halo model has to be affordable? It's a halo model. People don't have to be able to afford it, it just has to cast an appealing glow over the rest of the range.

Having Corvettes in the showroom makes people feel better about buying Sparks. You can bet your ass people bought Alfa Mitos because there was an 8C at the back of the showroom. How many people on GTP own cars like Civics and Sentras because they want to own an NSX or GT-R in the future?

You're missing the bigger picture. Nissan is in the business of selling cars. Pissing off a few thousand Z-diehards by sticking the badge on a crossover amounts to diddly-squat when there's a hundred thousand people around the corner willing to throw cash at anything with raised suspension and a funky name.

 

[Kent]

In other words, losing a few thousand Z buyers is completely inconsequential, whatever it's called. Okay, there's a goodwill issue there and no doubt a few twelve-year-olds who can't drive yet might be put off buying a Nissan in the future, but as the company's existing crossovers have proven, it's a hell of a lot more lucrative making those than it is small-volume rear-drive sports cars.

And they still have GT-Rs sitting in dealerships if they need a sporty halo model.

I can't agree with the above statement.
Losing a few thousand Z buyers is a big deal. There is no reason to lose those buyer or alienate one of the company's most prized properties- The Z.

Fact:
Nissan does not Need to put a Z badge on any other vehicles.

Opinion...
Using "Z" to sell a cross-over would be a very bad move. Buyers would see through it instantly and most of the media (as well as buyers) would be hyper-critical of the Cross-Over. It would be a lose-lose for Nissan and the buyers.

A well built Nissan cross-over will do just fine without using the Z badge.

You're missing the bigger picture. Nissan is in the business of selling cars. Pissing off a few thousand Z-diehards by sticking the badge on a crossover amounts to diddly-squat when there's a hundred thousand people around the corner willing to throw cash at anything with raised suspension and a funky name.

If you're idea of the bigger picture is to completely disregard an intellectual property, the "Z," for the sake of doing what you could do without alienating all the Z-people, then I am sure you could drive Nissan straight into being Toyota.

There is no need to "piss off" any one, none the less "a few thousand Z-diehards." To think of how many other normal people out there own Zs and would probably dislike a Juke being called a Z.

What amazes me is really more a matter of how care-free you are about throwing away the "Z" and letting go of the customers and culture.

I'm proud Nissan doesn't feel that way.
-Kent
(proud Subaru owner )

 

[Downhill Dino]

I think it could work, in a way. See, they could make it very similar to the Z we all know and love but bring back the '2+2' we've been missing for some time.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Buyers would see through it instantly and most of the media (as well as buyers) would be hyper-critical of the Cross-Over.

This goes with the 4DSC moniker they put on the Maxima that's received so much negative press recently. Putting the Z badge on a crossover would be no different.

 

[homeforsummer]

Fact:
Nissan does not Need to put a Z badge on any other vehicles.

No company needs to do anything other than make money.

Using "Z" to sell a cross-over would be a very bad move.

I don't disagree. I think it would be a bad move because I'm a car enthusiast and I'd like them to continue producing rear-drive, low-slung sports cars under the Z name.

However, I'm also realistic enough to understand that while the Z name carries a great deal of weight in the enthusiast community with people like myself, that community is actually rather small compared to the number of people who would buy the product whether it was called a Z-something or not.

The point here isn't that they'd be selling a crossover badged Z, simply that they'd be selling a crossover - and crossovers are incredibly popular.

Buyers would see through it instantly

Which buyers?

Buyers are the people that buy Jukes in their droves, even though a small, tedious selection of people who think they know about cars like to call it the "Puke" or the "Joke". The name is effectively meaningless, since Nissan produced a car that people like. Slap a Z badge on it and Joe Public wouldn't give a toss either way.

and most of the media (as well as buyers) would be hyper-critical of the Cross-Over. It would be a lose-lose for Nissan and the buyers.

The media's job is to evaluate cars. There might be a bit of moaning here and there about badge equity or heritage, but ultimately if Nissan made a good product, the media would report on that and it would reflect positively on the car.

If Nissan produced a Z crossover, there's a very real chance that I'd get to drive it in the next few years. If it's a good car I'll say so, if it's a bad car I'll also say so. If it's a dull one that they've tried to jazz up with a Z badge, I'll say that too. But if it's a good car I'm not going to be hyper-critical about it just because I'm unhappy it carries the Z badge, because then I wouldn't be doing my job properly.

A well built Nissan cross-over will do just fine without using the Z badge.

I agree. And it would do equally well with a Z badge, because it'd be a crossover and people buy lots of crossovers.

What amazes me is really more a matter of how care-free you are about throwing away the "Z" and letting go of the customers and culture.

I'm not being "care-free" - I've even said on multiple occasions that I'd prefer they didn't badge it a Z. But I'm also sensible enough to realise that the badge on the back is an inconsequential part of the story to anyone other than keyboard warriors on the internet.

Once again, keyboard warriors on the internet are the people who have spent the last four or five years calling the Juke hideous or saying that a company should produce a lightweight, rear-drive sports car. Back in the real world, actual buyers have been snapping up Jukes in six-figure numbers and the Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ lightweight sports car has been a relative flop.

 

[Legro]

a funky name.

Which I'm sure the letter Z isn't anymore. When the world is full of cars called XC, CX, or some other letter with some numbers after them, calling a car Z isn't really something different from the mass, especially if they decide to bring back the letter X to the name to indicate the fact it's a crossover. Good marketing can help with that, but it won't change the fact the name will still be something that could just as well be a new Infiniti or a Lexus.

 

[homeforsummer]

Which I'm sure the letter Z isn't anymore. When the world is full of cars called XC, CX, or some other letter with some numbers after them, calling a car Z isn't really something different from the mass, especially if they decide to bring back the letter X to the name to indicate the fact it's a crossover.

Nissan ZX? It'll never work

 

[TheCracker]

It depends on your market too. The 'Z' was always more popular in the States and probably its home market, then it ever was in Europe. Buyers of the previous 350 and 370Zs were probably much more attracted to a relatively cheap, relatively large engined RWD coupe, then they were the 'Z' badge on its nose. When the 350Z was first out what other options did you have if you were after a sporting RWD coupe? I can only think of the higher spec 3-series.

Sales figures have proven that the public lap up Nissan's crossovers. Even as one of those tedious misinformed car 'enthusiasts' who dislikes the Puke immensely (although for me it's purely down to its looks rather than what it is) I can see the appeal that it, along with the Qashqai, holds with the general public. I can totally see a spot between the younger active market that the Joke appeals to and the 50+ market that seem to flock to the Qashqai, for a slightly more upmarket sporty crossover for the middle aged family man/woman who'se not quiet ready for a dull diesel CVT, or needs something a bit bigger and less likely to give small children nightmares.

 

[niky]

The "Z" was a mass market car in its first incarnation. Granted, it was twice the price of the 510 at the time, but it was another 510 cheaper than its contemporaries.

The 300ZX really built the bloat up, size- and price-wise. The current 350/370Z line dialed that back, but it's no longer a grand bargain... not when you can buy an MX-5, a BR-Z or even a V6 Genesis (bigger, more space, same power) for less money.

I'd argue that the Z has changed a lot through the years, going from nimble, cheap little sports car to soft-ish grand tourer to twin-turbo high-dollar muscle to powerful sports coupe. Nissan has definitely fiddled with the formula a lot, and further fiddling is at their disgression. This is the manufacturer that has put 200SX on both a rear drive sports car and a two-door front-drive sedan, and which has juggled names across markets willy-nilly for years.

If they can pull off the sports-car-slash-crossover, I'll be impressed. I've driven a lot of wannabe sports-crossovers over the past few years, but none of them have convinced me that they are a legitimate alternative to something like the WRX or the Golf GTI.

-

Come to think of it, "Z-X" would do nicely as a crossover name. But please, keep the "Z", as well.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I don't know, to me it's like if Porsche decided to discontinue the 911 and then produce a Macan sized CUV and slap the 911 emblems on it because "crossover fad".

 

[YSSMAN]

If they sold it as a Z-derrivative, I don't think it'd be the worst thing Nissan could do. But, I wouldn't want them to abandon selling a "traditional" Z sports car. I mean, the marketing pretty much writes itself.

Typical swoopy, curvy, closed-track-controlled-surface junk for the new Z, and have it fade to black. "We've got a new Z to add to the family."

The letters 'DNA' show up on the screen, and then watch as the 'N' spins clockwise to form a 'Z'.

"We put the DNA from the Z into an all-new car, for an all-new generation. Introducing the Nissan Z-X, bred from sports cars."

 

[niky]

I don't know, to me it's like if Porsche decided to discontinue the 911 and then produce a Macan sized CUV and slap the 911 emblems on it because "crossover fad".

I think there are still a lot of people who believe putting the name "Porsche" on anything but the SuperBeetle is a travesty.

And a point I touched on earlier: They have used the "SX" tag for two completely different vehicle line-ups... and they've just dumped years of tradition and naming convention down the toilet by renaming the entire Infiniti line-up "Q"... so using the "Z" tag isn't such a stretch.

For them.

For the rest of us, it'll seem pretty lame unless they do differentiate between the "Z" cars and the "Z" crossovers. Again, "ZX" or "CZ" seems fitting.

 

[05XR8]

I was just going to mention Porsche. Porschefiles hated the idea of a Boxster. Then, Cayenne. Then, Cayman. It's happened and look at those sales.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If they sold it as a Z-derrivative, I don't think it'd be the worst thing Nissan could do. But, I wouldn't want them to abandon selling a "traditional" Z sports car. I mean, the marketing pretty much writes itself.

Typical swoopy, curvy, closed-track-controlled-surface junk for the new Z, and have it fade to black. "We've got a new Z to add to the family."

The letters 'DNA' show up on the screen, and then watch as the 'N' spins clockwise to form a 'Z'.

"We put the DNA from the Z into an all-new car, for an all-new generation. Introducing the Nissan Z-X, bred from sports cars."

The issue I have is them completely replacing the Z car with a crossover and putting the Z badge on it.

Now...

If they did a regular Z sports car and a "ZX" crossover on the same platform (without sacrificing the sports car - it would have priority) then it might just help keep the Z car around as the crossover could help pay for development costs and bring in additional profits they would lose by just releasing the sports car.

 

[niky]

The issue I have is them completely replacing the Z car with a crossover and putting the Z badge on it.

Now...

If they did a regular Z sports car and a "ZX" crossover on the same platform (without sacrificing the sports car - it would have priority) then it might just help keep the Z car around as the crossover could help pay for development costs and bring in additional profits they would lose by just releasing the sports car.

Considering also the FX (QX70... stupid new Infiniti names!) longitudinal-engined crossover... that might just work. Three to four midsized models on one platform? Gold.

In fact, with just a little work, the FX platform could be downsized into a handy ZX sporty crossover... with a range of turbo-fours and V6s.

 

[homeforsummer]

If they did a regular Z sports car and a "ZX" crossover on the same platform (without sacrificing the sports car - it would have priority) then it might just help keep the Z car around as the crossover could help pay for development costs and bring in additional profits they would lose by just releasing the sports car.

Slightly off-topic (or maybe it isn't), but I've always considered the first-gen Murano a sort of Z-crossover. It had the same engine as the 350Z after all*, and its styling and handling were a world away from regular SUVs at the time.



* I wonder if this makes the Renault Vel Satis, which also had the 350Z's engine, a Z luxury sedan?

 

[Nessy]

I really wouldn't mind a Juke/Z crossover, so long as there's a stand alone cheap entry level Z, that maybe shares some of the Jukes funky styling.

I did a quick amateur sketch based on the current/outgoing Juke, of what an entry level Z car could've looked like (it's unfinished as usual but it gives a rough idea).

I call it the Zuke. It would be quite a bit smaller than the 370Z (maybe a turbo 4 cyl) and would be a strict 2-seater that would slightly undercut the ND MX-5 in terms of price.

 

[05XR8]

Undercutting the ND? might have to change that Z to an S.

 

[Nessy]

Undercutting the ND? might have to change that Z to an S.

Why? (Don't quite follow).

 

[05XR8]

A small 4-cylinder Nisaan sports car competing with an MX-5, might be better without the Z reference in its name.

 

[Nessy]

I don't agree.

 

[05XR8]

It's like Honda making a baby NSX and crossing it with a CR-V. Should it be named NSXR-V? My first comment was only a light-hearted joke.

 

[Nessy]

Well to be honest, I think they should do away with the current form of Z-car, and focus on selling a smaller+cheaper 4cyl RWD. Small sports cars can sell in great numbers (as the MX-5 proves), So maybe Nissan could make something to undercut Mazda (albeit in coupe form), and take a good share of that market. If Nissan were to do that, I believe the Z moniker would be more than apt for the purpose of doing so. I think it would be the perfect opportunity.

[edit]

The car could even take the form of a shooting brake (instead of coupe). Sacrifice the ride height & clearance of the Juke, to make it a bit more sporty, it could also share components like the front and rear lights, front facia and other parts, to truly keep the cost down, but still have a great appeal to the masses.