The reign of the Beetle Gr.3

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pedrocor
Well, I thought the problem with the Beetle is that is unbalanced in terms of handling, compared with other Group 3 cars or people hate it because consider it a swastica on wheels?
:confused::confused::confused::confused: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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It's because average and/or dirty drivers can use it and still maintain decent pace despite driving some funny lines, also because it's well balanced and good in corners you can quite easily push/punt your way past others too and not lose control. On most tracks it's not the fastest car but it's not slow on any of them.

I still think improving other cars is a better solution than making the Beetle useless. As you'd definitely have to clip the Porsche too. Then some other car would dominate anyway, probably more so than any do now.
 
Was there any need to bring up Hitler and the Nazi's, the Beetle was initially designed by Josef Ganz and then redesigns by Ferdinand Porsche, two individuals who probably shared none of Hitler's views, so can we just drop this reference please as it risks seriously offending some members of the forum (not myself).
 
CConspicuous
Was there any need to bring up Hitler and the Nazi's, the Beetle was initially designed by Josef Ganz and then redesigns by Ferdinand Porsche, two individuals who probably shared none of Hitler's views, so can we just drop this reference please as it risks seriously offending some members of the forum (not myself).
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Its not a forum about politics but:
When Hilter placed order for the "Volkswagen Beelte" -1934- Ganz was in jail(by the Nazis -1933-) and was never part of the development of that car.On the other hand,Porsche was a member of the Nazi party.So saying that a former Czechoslovak citizen that became both "German" and member of Hitler's party did not share Hitler's views is not even close to reality.
But either way,I agree that all these have nothing to do with either
a.GTS
b.Beetle GR3
 
JulesDennis
Its not a forum about politics but:
When Hilter placed order for the "Volkswagen Beelte" -1934- Ganz was in jail(by the Nazis -1933-) and was never part of the development of that car.On the other hand,Porsche was a member of the Nazi party.So saying that a former Czechoslovak citizen that became both "German" and member of Hitler's party did not share Hitler's views is not even close to reality.
But either way,I agree that all these have nothing to do with either
a.GTS
b.Beetle GR3
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And what exactly does any of it have to do with a car manufactured in 2017?

To be clear, my point is not directed at you but the whole thread. Your post was just convenient to make it with.

Suggesting that people who drive a certain car in a video game are somehow reprehensible is one of the silliest things I have heard lately.
 
I have the Beetle Gr3 and it's not all that great, under BoP it's a viable competeter against other bigger/faster cars, but on its own (such as in lobbies) under tuning it'll fall back a bit but still rather agile through tight sections like on the hill in Bathurst. I prefer the M6 or R8 LMS, Merc or even the 4C over the Beetle in non-BoP races.

I went with Nissan this week for FIA races and even though on paper the GT-R the most well rounded car, I think it's a bit meh or lacks character as the Huracan is more exciting to drive.

JulesDennis
If this is the case then people should also hate Porsche and Mercedes.
(for the same reason).
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That's a dumb reason to hate the Beetle, but Hitler did invent the Beetle although the Beetle has nothing to do with the Nazi. Now if the game had the Kubelwagon, then there'd be reason to hate it- it was the standard issue transport vehicle during the Nazi times.
 
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Panoz
Having a grudge over the Beetle for its Nazi origins is a bit silly. Let's add Mercedes and Audi to the hate list too, since there Silver Arrows were propaganda tools for Nazi regime anyway.
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Why do you place Audi there?At that time they were a very small company and were not in any way related to the big ones.
"Silver Arrows" is a really interesting story -how those Merc got that "nickname"-.Read about it-if you dont know it that is.Its really a simple and genius work from their mechanics in order to make those cars legit to enter a race they "could not" due to weight.

Deadheadbill
And what exactly does any of it have to do with a car manufactured in 2017?

To be clear, my point is not directed at you but the whole thread. Your post was just convenient to make it with.

Suggesting that people who drive a certain car in a video game are somehow reprehensible is one of the silliest things I have heard lately.
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I know why you picked my post.But I only :
a.Point out what happend (back then)
b.Saying that that history has nothing to do with the game (GTS) or that car (Beetle GR3)
I again say that if some people want to try to make any kind of "connection"between VW and Nazi as an...argument about a car -Beetle GR3- in a game -GTS-,they should do the same with Merc and Porsche too (and start moan about...Porsche 911 GT3 RS).
And I quoted another's post.I never brough up any of this to begin with (history or anything else).

EDIT:Its kinda....funny (I really cannot take it seriously) but if people do those connections then why dont do the same with Nissan too..After all,they built trucks, airplanes, and engines for the Imperial Japanese Army that same period.
 
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The reason why the Beetle Gr. 3 is such a strong Gr. 3 racer is because of its smooth body (thanks to the traditional Beetle shape and design language), an overpowered 591hp engine with lots of boost and 1200kg, giving it a power to weight ratio of nearly 2hp/kg, which is extreme for a GT3 car.
 
JulesDennis
I know why you picked my post.But I only :
a.Point out what happend (back then)
b.Saying that that history has nothing to do with the game (GTS) or that car (Beetle GR3)
I again say that if some people want to try to make any kind of "connection"between VW and Nazi as an...argument about a car -Beetle GR3- in a game -GTS-,they should do the same with Merc and Porsche too (and start moan about...Porsche 911 GT3 RS).
And I quoted another's post.I never brough up any of this to begin with (history or anything else).
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Deadheadbill
To be clear, my point is not directed at you but the whole thread. Your post was just convenient to make it with.
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I thought I had made it clear that I was not accusing you of anything in my post.
 
Deadheadbill
I thought I had made it clear that I was not accusing you of anything in my post.
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Check my edit about NISSAN.Maybe people were moaning about GTR in the game because of that ;) (lol).

EDIT (2): Did you know that Ford had a contract with Soviet Union and built a factory in Russia?Maybe that is a good reason to moan about...Ford Focus Gr.B giving you a feeling of "driving in ice" when you do "rally" in GTS. :P
 
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Baron Blitz Red
I think it's about time to leave these here...





The only major difference is the drivetrain... the Rally Cross Beetles are AWD, but the performance stats including horse power are very comparable with the GR.3 version here in GT Sport. Just food for thought when you say these aren't real...

Cheers
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Great vids mate thanks for sharing! :cheers:

I caught this vid as an extra at the end of one of them and these little things need nerfing in real life too hahaha :lol: Look at it go!! :eek:



Herbies goes like the clappers! Could be a new Disney movie...
mutley.gif
 
ASH32
It's because average and/or dirty drivers can use it and still maintain decent pace despite driving some funny lines, also because it's well balanced and good in corners you can quite easily push/punt your way past others too and not lose control. On most tracks it's not the fastest car but it's not slow on any of them.

I still think improving other cars is a better solution than making the Beetle useless. As you'd definitely have to clip the Porsche too. Then some other car would dominate anyway, probably more so than any do now.
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If you read other of my posts in this topic, you will realize that's exactly my point of view. And this topic used to be a good debate, not everyone agreeing and putting very good points of view.

Suddenly all I could read on last posts it's about nazis, Hitler, the former Beetle, the Axis, etc. That's the reason of my post.
 
dylpro
I don't judge you based on your flag or based on you using the car people have perceived as the best car. I have no problem people using the 911. I really had no problem with people using the GTR.

I DO judge you if you use the Beetle, simply because it's a Beetle. And if you value your lap times over your own personal pride and consciously choose to drive a Beetle, you are, in my opinion, the worst of human beings.
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I know the Porsche got a lot of flack last week, but I think it could largely be forgiven because it was at the front in very capable hands being driven with finesse and real skill. What we are seeing with the Beetle, and unfortunately this very car has been cursed/blessed with a lot of forgiveness which has been seized upon by a sizable percentage.....which is probably a legacy of the new less forgiving physics. Inevitably, you are going to have a sizeable percentage of drivers within that sizeable group who are very aggressive with their entry speed and their driving tactics.

I didn't really have a problem with the car itself and its characteristics because I understand that GTS needs a certain amount of accessibility, but it's the significant percentage of aggressive savages who would be technically 1-2 seconds outside a top ten TT in a Porsche or similar with no assists and who want to win at all costs, and who show no remorse at how they get past I have a problem with. And very many of them are generation Ys and Zs who have been conditioned differently to us older ones.

Tidgney
Bathurst had a variety of cars in the top 10 to be honest last night (I said I'd never do Bathurst again but I gave it a second chance). I chose the Porsche (First time ever) because it was a lot easier to drive than the Ferrari and I could not work out how some people were going so quick. I could get 2:02's but not consistently. Then I saw someone in the race get low 2:02's constantly.... watched the replay then saw what was happening! That damn driver aid (Counter Steer) flashing red more times than the brake indicator :P! So I either had a choice of the driving aid or a stable car last night and went for the stable one (I honestly think the counter steer driving aid is cheating if it makes it so spinning is reduced and people that much quicker!)
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Great laps BTW at Bathurst. Yes I was initially surprised weeks ago at all these unknown aliens until I started randomly checking their HUDs (after hearing stuff) where many of them would make a strobe light in nightclub look boring. I do also think most of the driving aids are cheating marginally, but especially the countersteer assist because I've seen it work very effectively, and over the duration of a race with tyre wear, it could prove a big advantage. I'd like to see it work less effectively, but the point where the user doesn't quite half spin just to keep things fair.

I'm just surprised at the significant number of ones out there who choose this path instead of trying to brush up on their driving and get some inspiration from the few who are driving very fast and consistently with just ABS. My guess is that they musn't follow motorsport that's all, or not closely enough for it to retain some fascination at least, because most racing driver types pride themselves on being able to handle a car unassisted, and this new phenomenon of using assists with pride seems quite new. Before we had the SRF hack debacle in GT6 where the users were total savages and causing a lot of resentment.

But this is the predicament for PD when it comes to assists because it seems the majority are enjoying close competitive races using them responsibly whilst a few in my opinion are exploiting their advantages to blow everyone away as you mentioned, or just savage others and get away with it on entry and sometimes the exits of corners.
 
It will end soon enough, I see it as a fun challenge. I like to use uncommon cars (Alfa 4C, lexus, Mercedes, etc) it presents more of a challenge and its a good feeling when you do well against the more popular cars. I say do what makes you happy, it's different for everyone. I enjoy chasing people down because dominating a race is kind of boring. Yes you're winning and getting great DR boosts but when a challenge does eventually present itself, you may be underprepared.
 
mirial
But this is the predicament for PD when it comes to assists because it seems the majority are enjoying close competitive races using them responsibly whilst a few in my opinion are exploiting their advantages to blow everyone away as you mentioned, or just savage others and get away with it on entry and sometimes the exits of corners.
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PD should have implemented similar to what the COD franchise does.. where in COD we get to choose from the Normal Team Deathmatch or Hardcore Team Deathmatch before it connects us online, so in our menu when we click Sport mode PD should have given us a choice of 'Assisted' racing events and 'Non-Assists' events as the first 2 options before we even start to connect to the masses 👍

Honestly how hard could it be to have this option and make things easier and a more enjoyable experience for all?
 
jesQuick
So weak. And you end it with the ancient and tired 'git good'. PLEASE, you can do better! Use your imagination ffs. Smh.
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And those complaining can do better too! The Beetle just isn't that great and I don't understand the people calling for it to be nerfed. It's absolutely beatable by any handful of other cars in the hands of skilled drivers.

Still certain cars may have advantage over other cars on a given track, which would lead people to use it and thus you end up with a top ten represented by only one type of car. It isn't always like that. In fact it most times is not.

And as someone already said, if you nerf the most powerful car then everyone migrated to the second most powerful and suddenly there are lots of calls, LIKE THIS POST, to nerf that car. It's a cycle that happens I every game and it isn't necessary when it doesn't take anything but a little and skill to beat the Beetles
 
pedrocor
For some time people are complaining about this.
Same happened on Gr. 4, with GT-R, but that was corrected quickly.

I'm well aware i'm not a very skilled gamer and play with DS4, so usually don't bother to look to top10 times.
Also because of all dumb trolleys seem to think they are too good to slower cars and go to Gr. 3 races, I usually enjoy not so Destruction Derby gr. 4 or one make races. So, not so aware as others about the "Beetle Problem"

But, in the weekend, having just finished a custom livery on a Viper GT3, a gave it a go on Interlagos on the Daily Race.
Despite almost none experience with the Viper, and only two laps on qualifying, I qualified 5th, it was not the fastest bunch of boys on that race, I've to admit.

So, I was fifth, a dude on a M6 was fourth, 3 Beetles in the front and 2 right behind me.

With the start of the race I finally understood why people complain. The guy on the BMW was doing a pretty good job, clean lines, smooth, but was no match to the first two Beetles. The other one was all over the place, fighting just to keep the car on track, but still missing the apex, overshooting the braking points, was still fighting for third place. The Beetle starting in sixth passed me, partially because I tried to stay out of the way on the first corner (too many races ruined by being rammed on the first corner), he too was all over the place. I realized how annoying is to race this way. One thing is to race guys as good or better than you, other is watching they struggling just to keep the car on tarmac and still be faster than you, when you are having a pretty decent, error free race.

On the second lap, breaking to turn 4 (end of second straight Recta Oposta), the Beetle in fourth managed to tangle with the Beemer in third, I guess the other Beetle panicked and I managed to pass to fourth, with the Beetle that caused the mess in third, in front of me. On the next lap, entering to turn 6, by some reason, the Beetle one more time didn't brake on the right place, but managed to full brake and still hold it (in any other car he would simply understeer offtrack). Unfortunately for him, I was right behind him, couldn't avoid bumping him in the back. It was unintentional, I had nowhere to go, I went to finish third, no penalty was assessed.
The Beemer didn't managed to recover, although being a pretty decent car (the race had no tire wear), and the driver not bad at all.
So it was: Distant Beetle, Beetle, me, Bettle, Bettle, Beetle, Beemer.

I guess the first one was a pretty decent driver, has he finished 10 secs ahead of me and 8 secs ahead of second place Beetle, on a 4 lap race, but the guys I was fighting where all over the place, no idea of racing lines, etc. but still where keeping up, the only problem was they couldn't handle the fact they where racing against other guys.

I don't bother there are cars slightly better than others, but the Beetle thing is something completely different.
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I think I was the guy in the bmw, your story sounds very very familiar. Lol
 
MikeV27
9 out of 10 cars in the top 10 are Beetles on the Alsace - Village daily race in my region. Would be interesting to see how many there are in the top 100 or so.
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7/10 are currently Beetles around Suzuka, it obviously isn't that great though and we should all 'git gud'. :lol:
 
MikeV27
7/10 are currently Beetles around Suzuka, it obviously isn't that great though and we should all 'git gud'. :lol:
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Wasn't the case earlier on the EU servers, there were mainly Porsches in the top 10 with a Ferrari at the top. Although I was on there in a Beetle and I'm no Top 10 runner, I use traction control on 2 for a start, as well as simply being not as fast as those guys.
 
Mr P
PD should have implemented similar to what the COD franchise does.. where in COD we get to choose from the Normal Team Deathmatch or Hardcore Team Deathmatch before it connects us online, so in our menu when we click Sport mode PD should have given us a choice of 'Assisted' racing events and 'Non-Assists' events as the first 2 options before we even start to connect to the masses 👍

Honestly how hard could it be to have this option and make things easier and a more enjoyable experience for all?
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Indeed, and whilst there are some very good things with GTS, it still needs a lot of tweaking and I hope they can make changes like the one you suggest without too much difficulty. When you mention no assists, they will probably have to at least lock ABS at weak because it will be extremely difficult for the majority who don't use braking resistance to drive without it completely. We can also expect driving standards to probably go up in the "non-assists" group because everyone will have carefully practised their entry speed into corners in a disciplined fashion. I'd like to see a poll on what ABS setting people would want. They created GTS with an open mind and now that they have a lot of data I think we can expect to many revisions soon.

And if we must all race together, then maybe some performance handicap needs to be added for every assist someone uses, so if you really must have a HUD that would shame a Christmas tree then they'll have to accept a car that is inherently 1-2 seconds slower :)

And to mention the Beetle again, they probably need to increase the weight and power which will lessen the incidents we are seeing because not only is its mid corner speed higher than the established GT3s at the moment, but probably means it is setup below the limit of grip which inspires aggressive drivers to drive it extra aggressively to get the weight transfer and extra grip. You simply cannot drive the 911 or R8 or 650S like that.
 
MustakeSVT
I think I was the guy in the bmw, your story sounds very very familiar. Lol
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Interlagos? Sunday Night? The Beemer with the Walkenworst livery? A couple of annoying pricks driving Beetles? :D

At home I'll check the username, didn't save the replay but maybe saved the screenshot of the classification.
 
Straight beetles in the top 5 for every GR.3 race at Alsace village for me yesterday. I tried the Viper, RC F, RS.01, Vette and lastly the RCZ and none of them could touch the Beetles. Even average C ranked drivers were doing 1:54 and 1:53 times. Best I could get was a 1:54.9 in the RCZ. It's not my favorite track but I'm at least consistent. The first fast left hand turn they seemingly take flat out, but with every car I tried it requires a slight lift to not hit the grass.
 
BSDShoes
That's a dumb reason to hate the Beetle, but Hitler did invent the Beetle although the Beetle has nothing to do with the Nazi. Now if the game had the Kubelwagon, then there'd be reason to hate it- it was the standard issue transport vehicle during the Nazi times.
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Hitler did not invent the Beetle : Josef Ganz did.
 
Frankly speaking without tuning your car (gear ratios etc) i don't even want to play sport mode with my Ferrari Italia GT3.

It just has broken stability and you can't do anything to fix it. Especially trying to use second gear and trying to go into slow hard corners. Not only i need to fight with way to much power on second gear with that gear ratio but also with that retarded anti-slip gas mechanic where if i don't press half of the gas car doesn't move forward. On straight it isn't problem but with such gear ratio as it is if i go over half of the gas and i am turning into very slow and hard corner corner like second one in N-Ring GP i just slide away so i need to use for those slow corner 3rd gear which cost me time.
 
Mr P
Great vids mate thanks for sharing! :cheers:
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No problem!!! I went to the live event as well, and the sport is great fun to watch! It was surprising just how quick all the cars were, let alone agile. The drivers really put them through their paces... tough little units!

Cheers
 

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