The reign of the Beetle Gr.3

[Adrenaline]

I think the McLaren is faster, but harder to drive. Beetle is just safer, more stable, and easier to repeat 'good' laps. But my 'best' laps have come in the 650s. Unfortunately I tend to wear the tires in the McLaren much faster as well, so the consistency issue gets compounded over 10 laps with tire wear.

 

[Inzyman]

Yes, I've been using it for the first time lately and what I will say is it's probably an easier car to drive close to it's limit then most other Gr.3 cars that I've tried, so average people may well be faster with it but I think there is more potential in some of the other cars, it's just that they are tougher to drive near their limit.

I don't see the higher level drivers using too many of them...

 

[Inzyman]

It’s probably more prevalent in the lower DR/SR races.

True..............

 

[CConspicuous]

I think the McLaren is faster, but harder to drive. Beetle is just safer, more stable, and easier to repeat 'good' laps. But my 'best' laps have come in the 650s. Unfortunately I tend to wear the tires in the McLaren much faster as well, so the consistency issue gets compounded over 10 laps with tire wear.

This is true of 650S GT3 in real life too, that's why the PRO AM and AM teams tend to not do well with them in Blancpain, VLN, PWC, etc,.

 

[Tidgney]

Great laps BTW at Bathurst. Yes I was initially surprised weeks ago at all these unknown aliens until I started randomly checking their HUDs (after hearing stuff) where many of them would make a strobe light in nightclub look boring. I do also think most of the driving aids are cheating marginally, but especially the countersteer assist because I've seen it work very effectively, and over the duration of a race with tyre wear, it could prove a big advantage. I'd like to see it work less effectively, but the point where the user doesn't quite half spin just to keep things fair.

I'm just surprised at the significant number of ones out there who choose this path instead of trying to brush up on their driving and get some inspiration from the few who are driving very fast and consistently with just ABS. My guess is that they musn't follow motorsport that's all, or not closely enough for it to retain some fascination at least, because most racing driver types pride themselves on being able to handle a car unassisted, and this new phenomenon of using assists with pride seems quite new. Before we had the SRF hack debacle in GT6 where the users were total savages and causing a lot of resentment.

But this is the predicament for PD when it comes to assists because it seems the majority are enjoying close competitive races using them responsibly whilst a few in my opinion are exploiting their advantages to blow everyone away as you mentioned, or just savage others and get away with it on entry and sometimes the exits of corners.

Ye for sure! Surprised how many people are using it, in fact I would hazard a guess that's why a few of the names we saw originally at the top have stopped playing as it's a driving aid I wouldn't want to use and I won't. That's only an assumption though with other people.

PD should have implemented similar to what the COD franchise does.. where in COD we get to choose from the Normal Team Deathmatch or Hardcore Team Deathmatch before it connects us online, so in our menu when we click Sport mode PD should have given us a choice of 'Assisted' racing events and 'Non-Assists' events as the first 2 options before we even start to connect to the masses 👍

Honestly how hard could it be to have this option and make things easier and a more enjoyable experience for all?

This would be perfect, either do this or make FIA races ABS only (It's the only AID I can really accept as it's the one that you can't feel through a pedal) and you only know locking when it's happening. Or as PCars2 has an option, maybe make it authentic AIDS allowed only? It's an FIA race at the end of the day so perhaps authenticity should be brought in.

I can see my self using the Porsche again though due to stability and I'll probably try the beetle out at some point just out of curiosity. Will certainly be interesting to see which car will be on top next!

 

[JulesDennis]

This is true of 650S GT3 in real life too, that's why the PRO AM and AM teams tend to not do well with them in Blancpain, VLN, PWC, etc,.

Not so true.The Mclaren was never a "top" speed car irl but it was easy (compared to others-Bendley for example-) to drive.It was not the "best" in terms of "cost" and "support" from the manufacturer.
In a grid that has 5 Mercs,6 Ferrari,2 Mclaren,5 Porsche and 4 BMW its more possible for a Ferrari or a Merc to be in top 3 since there are more of them in the race to begin with.Also when BoP is effective that makes it more possible to happen.
You also need to concider that "easy" to drive is not equal to " easy to push it into its limits".Thats another big factor.Pro drivers can push any car to its limit (get the best performance possible),Am drivers cannot do that.
PRO-AM or AM teams tend to use cars that are "easy" to drive for their customers(AM drivers).Thats why a lot of those choose Porshe -example-:its a better choice for their AM drivers.

 

[Deadheadbill]

Ye for sure! Surprised how many people are using it, in fact I would hazard a guess that's why a few of the names we saw originally at the top have stopped playing as it's a driving aid I wouldn't want to use and I won't. That's only an assumption though with other people.



This would be perfect, either do this or make FIA races ABS only (It's the only AID I can really accept as it's the one that you can't feel through a pedal) and you only know locking when it's happening. Or as PCars2 has an option, maybe make it authentic AIDS allowed only? It's an FIA race at the end of the day so perhaps authenticity should be brought in.

I can see my self using the Porsche again though due to stability and I'll probably try the beetle out at some point just out of curiosity. Will certainly be interesting to see which car will be on top next!

To be fair, many of the cars have traction control irl and many top drivers use them. I wouldn't want to be restricted to racing in an even more difficult setup than the pro's use for certain cars.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This would be perfect, either do this or make FIA races ABS only (It's the only AID I can really accept as it's the one that you can't feel through a pedal) and you only know locking when it's happening. Or as PCars2 has an option, maybe make it authentic AIDS allowed only? It's an FIA race at the end of the day so perhaps authenticity should be brought in.

TCS is an aid that is pretty much a standard in the majority of real world motorsports so why should it not be allowed in game? Actually some forms of motorsports are even using GPS based TCS which can be independently set to optimize its application for each corner of the racing circuit. Teams do try to find a balance using the least amount of TCS possible as it does effect power delivery upon acceleration and can slow down a cars drive out of corners resulting in higher lap times.

TCS in game does the same as far as lap times, the higher you run TCS the tighter the car drives and the "less drive" exiting the corners resulting in higher lap times. With a RWD car loose is fast if it is not so loose that you cannot keep the car going in the desired direction.

With the current physics of GTS many RWD Gr3 cars and some Gr4 cars are way too prone to a no warning snap spin on acceleration with no traction control. Even driving with an egg under the gas pedal on corner exits can result in this dreaded no warning spin entirely to frequently and depending on the car TCS 1 or 2 will make the car at least predictable for the most part.

I can agree with not allowing counter steering aids or vehicle stability aids but ABS and TCS are real world tools that most real life racing series do employ so should not be disallowed or their use frowned upon.

 

[CConspicuous]

Not so true.The Mclaren was never a "top" speed car irl but it was easy (compared to others-Bendley for example-) to drive.It was not the "best" in terms of "cost" and "support" from the manufacturer.
In a grid that has 5 Mercs,6 Ferrari,2 Mclaren,5 Porsche and 4 BMW its more possible for a Ferrari or a Merc to be in top 3 since there are more of them in the race to begin with.Also when BoP is effective that makes it more possible to happen.
You also need to concider that "easy" to drive is not equal to " easy to push it into its limits".Thats another big factor.Pro drivers can push any car to its limit (get the best performance possible),Am drivers cannot do that.
PRO-AM or AM teams tend to use cars that are "easy" to drive for their customers(AM drivers).Thats why a lot of those choose Porshe -example-:its a better choice for their AM drivers.

Please refer to Von Ryan Racing in Blancpain Endurance Series 2015 (a DNF at Paul Ricard + lapped traffic collision at Spa24 cost them the title):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Blancpain_Endurance_Series#Championship_standings

...as well as the performance of K-PAX Racing in Pirelli World Challenge 2016:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Pirelli_World_Challenge#Championship_standings

It's also worth noting that McLaren is notorious for it's distinct lack of support to customer and works GT3 teams, which is the reason why ART abandoned being their works GT3 team after a reason of running 12C GT3s and even publicly sited this lack of support as the single reason.

The 2015 McLaren 650S was quite clearly the quickest GT3 throughout 2015 around most tracks, if you're going to tell us that the 2015 McLaren 650S GT3 wasn't fast in real life, then you're effectively dismissing two major GT3 championships as being entirely fictitious.

 

[polizei]

I'm wondering if the beetle has a glitch, it feels like it has massive down force at all times and doesn't seem to vary much with speed.

 

[JulesDennis]

It's also worth noting that McLaren is notorious for it's distinct lack of support to customer and works GT3 teams, which is the reason why ART abandoned being their works GT3 team after a reason of running 12C GT3s and even publicly sited this lack of support as the single reason.

I already said that.

The 2015 McLaren 650S was quite clearly the quickest GT3 throughout 2015 around most tracks, if you're going to tell us that the 2015 McLaren 650S GT3 wasn't fast in real life, then you're effectively dismissing two major GT3 championships as being entirely fictitious.

I said a "top speed car".The overall pace is not just "top speed".Compare the 650s with the Bendley and tell me what model had the top speed?But because 650s was "easier" to "drive" (aka for a PRO driver to get it to its limits/max performance) it was really quick.Yet at 2015 the "new" (back then) 650s went against some older models -Ferrari 458(2011),Audi Ultra(2012),Z4(2010) examples- in various series.
The 650s is not as fast as the AMG GT3 these days is it?
Its not an "easy" for an AM to use.That was my point.And thats another reason why you dont see it in AM,PRO-AM performing the same way it does in PRO.
So I never said its a "slow" car.I,on the other hand,said that this car does not suit AM drivers the same way a Porsche GT3 car does (that actually is slower than the Mclaren in the hands of PRO drivers).

 

[CConspicuous]

I said a "top speed car".The overall pace is not just "top speed".Compare the 650s with the Bendley and tell me what model had the top speed?But because 650s was "easier" to "drive" (aka for a PRO driver to get it to its limits/max performance) it was really quick.Yet at 2015 the "new" (back then) 650s went against some older models -Ferrari 458(2011),Audi Ultra(2012),Z4(2010) examples- in various series.
The 650s is not as fast as the AMG GT3 these days is it?
Its not an "easy" for an AM to use.That was my point.And thats another reason why you dont see it in AM,PRO-AM performing the same way it does in PRO.
So I never said its a "slow" car.I,on the other hand,said that this car does not suit AM drivers the same way a Porsche GT3 car does (that actually is slower than the Mclaren in the hands of PRO drivers).

1) Top speed as absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

2) The 650S is a twitchy car, don't believe me, ask the drivers, it's also why the 650S doesn't fare well in the PRO-AM and AM classes.

3) All cars competing in GT3 in real life are subject to group BoP tests at Paul Ricard done by SRO, the 650S was BoP'd up against those other 'older cars', something that's been done since 2004.

4) "Older cars" are allowed to be given 'evolution kits' by the manufacturers to keep develop them, these kits are usually sold to teams for around EUR100,000 until they are phased out, for example, the 458 GT3 no longer gets evolution kits but the 488 does.

5) You did imply it was a slow car.

 

[JulesDennis]

1) Top speed as absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

My first post that you quoted:

The Mclaren was never a "top" speed car...

2) The 650S is a twitchy car, don't believe me, ask the drivers, it's also why the 650S doesn't fare well in the PRO-AM and AM classes.

How many PRO-AM,AM teams used Mclaren in 2017 Blancpain gt series?
1 out of 16 teams in PRO-AM Endurance cup (finished in 13th position)
1 out of 9 teams in AM Endurance cup (finished in 8th position)
In the 2017 Blancpain Sprint gt series:
Zero 650S in PRO-AM,SILVER or AM teams
In the 2017 Blancpain gt series Asia series one 650S only started one race (and did not finish it).
So where is a reason that PRO-AM or AM dont use that car,I agree.AM drivers cannot drive it as it should be driven.

from my first post:

.... "easy" to drive is not equal to " easy to push it into its limits"....
PRO-AM or AM teams tend to use cars that are "easy" to drive for their customers(AM drivers).

3) All cars competing in GT3 in real life are subject to group BoP tests at Paul Ricard done by SRO, the 650S was BoP'd up against those other 'older cars', something that's been done since 2004.

I know that.2 times every year.But BoP does not make all cars "equal".Some will always have better pace than others (in different tracks).

4) "Older cars" are allowed to be given 'evolution kits' by the manufacturers to keep develop them, these kits are usually sold to teams for around EUR100,000 until they are phased out, for example, the 458 GT3 no longer gets evolution kits but the 488 does.

Why bring this up?I dont get it.You want to prove that "older" models can be as fast-good as new ones?
A good example would be the Aston GTE (with proper BoP that is).Won the AM this year in FIA WEC.
In GT3?Not exactly the same case.Usually "new" models tend to have an advantage compared to "older".

5) You did imply it was a slow car.

No I did not.
again

The Mclaren was never a "top" speed car...

does not mean "slow".Because:

I said a "top speed car".The overall pace is not just "top speed".

 

[LordDrift]

1.06 will end the reign.

 

[Tidgney]

To be fair, many of the cars have traction control irl and many top drivers use them. I wouldn't want to be restricted to racing in an even more difficult setup than the pro's use for certain cars.

TCS is an aid that is pretty much a standard in the majority of real world motorsports so why should it not be allowed in game? Actually some forms of motorsports are even using GPS based TCS which can be independently set to optimize its application for each corner of the racing circuit. Teams do try to find a balance using the least amount of TCS possible as it does effect power delivery upon acceleration and can slow down a cars drive out of corners resulting in higher lap times.

TCS in game does the same as far as lap times, the higher you run TCS the tighter the car drives and the "less drive" exiting the corners resulting in higher lap times. With a RWD car loose is fast if it is not so loose that you cannot keep the car going in the desired direction.

I did also mention Authentic driving aids as well which would cover this and probably more towards what I would want to be honest , especially anything FIA related.

This would be perfect, either do this or make FIA races ABS only (It's the only AID I can really accept as it's the one that you can't feel through a pedal) and you only know locking when it's happening. Or as PCars2 has an option, maybe make it authentic AIDS allowed only? It's an FIA race at the end of the day so perhaps authenticity should be brought in.

 

[BSDShoes]

I'm wondering if the beetle has a glitch, it feels like it has massive down force at all times and doesn't seem to vary much with speed.

I was thinking the same about the Renault RS01 GT3, that car is literally glued to the ground, i thought the C7 suits my driving style but boy I can whip around tight tracks with the RS01, this might be my new favorite.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This would be perfect, either do this or make FIA races ABS only (It's the only AID I can really accept as it's the one that you can't feel through a pedal) and you only know locking when it's happening.

My original reply to your post was based off the above statement. In that statement you made it pretty clear that ABS was the only aid you "can really accept".

I do agree that only aids currently allowed by most real world sanctioning bodies should be allowed in their respective classes. I would like to see the tire physics to be improved in GTS where suspension set ups, tire pressures and driving styles will have a marked effect on a tires longevity and optimum grip life.

Right now for the most part locking up the brakes, sliding through the corners, spinning on corner exits or even spinning out does not seem to have very much effect on tire life or grip over a race distance. A driver that runs a consistent lap time and who has a driving style that minimizes the abuse to the tires through out the race should be seeing quite an advantage in grip levels over the last couple of laps in a 10 lap event as compared to a driver that abuses his tires the entire race from turn one in the first lap.

Also even the warm up lap should have an effect on the tire wear as the same set of tires is used for the race. But thus far tire wear has not become a big enough factor to encourage a more conservative driving style as an option to win races.

I really cannot get over as to how many treat the warm up lap like the last lap of a race and are running into people and sliding off the track into the walls on a lap that does not even count. Turn damage on, turn on tire wear and start their effects from exiting pit road on the warm up lap.

Even though it is only a game the more realistic that the game can mimic the real world racing from car performance and handling levels, to how driving styles or suspension set ups used within game would affect the car or performance over race or pit stop race distance then the more immersive the game will be for a broader range of players where all driving styles will see situations to either be your strong point or your weak point depending on the track, cars driven and race distance.

 

[invetedevo]

The Group 3 Beetle is way too dominant on Mt. Panorama. Join any open lobby on that track and you will notice how many drivers rely on it.

I usually run with the 911 and my best lap time is a 1:56 after running hundreds of laps. I switched over to the Beetle and did a 1:55 on my 3rd lap.

In my opinion it's a problem.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I just got this game the other day and am I reading this right? Is there really a GT3 Beetle?
Is this a real simulator or a fantasy simulator?

Also, you can’t even change gearing in this game? Is this online only? Just been playing single player so far, so not caught up on the online stuff yet.

 

[jesQuick]

The GT franchise have always had fantasy cars. That's not new.
And currently, in sport mode, you can't change anything but brake balance (and TC etc)

 

[KenboZX10r]

Forgot to check if Boost was on but Bettle goes 1.45sec Lap on Alsace Village,Please make this Car go Away?Uge...

 

[KenboZX10r]

I just got this game the other day and am I reading this right? Is there really a GT3 Beetle?
Is this a real simulator or a fantasy simulator?

Also, you can’t even change gearing in this game? Is this online only? Just been playing single player so far, so not caught up on the online stuff yet.

The only place you can make any changes are in the open lobby's,Luck has it there are some at night,more on weekends,when you go into the open menu narrow your search to Gr3,you can access the lobby's much quicker,Hopefully the patch will fix the unable to move when the Race starts issue or being stuck in Auto drive/ Good luck dude...(Oh the Bug /Yeah is Fantasy Garbage/Hopefully it Goes away also)

 

[Tidgney]

My original reply to your post was based off the above statement. In that statement you made it pretty clear that ABS was the only aid you "can really accept".

Yes but then i also posted an additional sentence, as I also believe authentic aids is also something I think would work (In my opinion). Please don't focus on 1 particular part of a post when I also made additional comments on the same subject :S.

Anyway back to Grp 3 beetle domination, that thing truly flies I found out at the weekend when racing someone! Although I've got a secret new love in the RCZ, I'm a PUG driver this week ! Although technically I've always liked the RCZ .

 

[KenboZX10r]

The Group 3 Beetle is way too dominant on Mt. Panorama. Join any open lobby on that track and you will notice how many drivers rely on it.

I usually run with the 911 and my best lap time is a 1:56 after running hundreds of laps. I switched over to the Beetle and did a 1:55 on my 3rd lap.

In my opinion it's a problem.

I've Experienced the same in open Lobby non-Bop Races ,It looks like the Gr3 Power plus or weight reductions for alot of the Cars would only help Balance this issue in Bop Daily or Cup Races?Has anyone noticed any Differences in open Lobby's?

 

[AshenGraey]

I wonder if they finally nerfed it....raced at Nurb GP last night and every single person in the races I've been on who drove the beetle were toward the back of the grid....911s and Z4s were dominating though!

 

[Sloppy Shades]

I wonder if they finally nerfed it....raced at Nurb GP last night and every single person in the races I've been on who drove the beetle were toward the back of the grid....911s and Z4s were dominating though!

They didn't nerf it they just boosted most of the other cars to compensate.

 

[mirial]

@Tidgney
I've noticed that the Beetle's pace has not been as good as the others since the update, or else many aren't using it now, but the majority are still either using TC or Countersteer assist or both to get their top ten times. I'm just surprised at the frequency of use still because I thought those who are competitive at this game sort of aspire to do it professionally in some way....unassisted.

Also, I've also noticed a lot of very good laps done by those using the 911 RSR without assists (and dealing with the twitchiness), and you could potentially get a lot of these drivers not making an A race and getting the big points. Not cricket if you ask me.

 

[Nasherwood]

I feel like the beetle feels a little more unstable after the update, has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

 

[AshenGraey]

I feel like the beetle feels a little more unstable after the update, has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

Not just you, I noticed it too...I tried it for a few laps last night after setting my best time with the 911 and it just wasn't the same handling wise. That stability that it had before just doesn't seem to be there anymore...or it could be that I got better with the 911

 

[Tidgney]

@Tidgney
I've noticed that the Beetle's pace has not been as good as the others since the update, or else many aren't using it now, but the majority are still either using TC or Countersteer assist or both to get their top ten times. I'm just surprised at the frequency of use still because I thought those who are competitive at this game sort of aspire to do it professionally in some way....unassisted.

Also, I've also noticed a lot of very good laps done by those using the 911 RSR without assists (and dealing with the twitchiness), and you could potentially get a lot of these drivers not making an A race and getting the big points. Not cricket if you ask me.

Fortunately at the moment I've not seen a top 10 time I couldn't hit without the use of counter steer, thankfully ! But I completely agree with you the counter steer thing! The RCZ (I've chosen PUG This week) is very similar to the Porsche in Group 3 in terms of how it drives but on Sunday in one of the best races I've had with a Porsche opponent (2 of them), the Porsche had more power and I said the RCZ needed 1% power increase, Monday came and PD gave it (Not sure whether they can read my mind haha) so I think the RCZ will be the same as the Porsche now. I've not seen many beetles so I'm hoping people are trying different manufacturers out (I assume they are).

But there's an additional issue (Which might have been solved I don't know) in that ABS affects speed something else in road cars. When it was the Evo at Tokyo with the Nations Cup I turned ABS off and gained 1.5 seconds (I lost a tiny bit in braking zones due to locking) so I've no idea what that is about. What it appeared to be is that ABS for some reason when changing gear activates TC then deactivates it, without ABS it does this but for a split second rather than .5 of a second (Times aren't accurate but you get my meaning). This may well have been fixed as it was referenced in the patch notes but that was a scary improvement when I tried it, like I couldn't believe! (Think times were 2:25.0 and initially I was on 2:26.9 could see a 26.4. I turned off and my potential went to 2:24's).

I'm not sure whether driving aids needs a separate thread though as I could go on all day haha! Sorry if this is seen as derailment, I'll bring cookies to the next GT event I go to as compensation!