The Threat From China - Real or Not?

  • Thread starter Dotini
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This Activision-Blizzard Hong Kong controversy has made me realize something.

The China plan is not only not working, it's backfired. It seems this has been true for a while but it's overtly obvious now.

We've done business with China partly in the hopes that our freedom and capitalism would influence China and enlighten them so Communism would be defeated via self reflection.

This hasn't happened. And instead, Western companies are bending to the will of the Chinese government, so much so that they are actually exporting Communist ideology to the world!

Banning players for expressions of freedom is serious in itself, but firing the commentators who had nothing to do with it is on another level. Guilty by association is insane and the chilling effect is immeasurable and insidious.

China has a huge military but the frightening thing is that it doesn't even need it. They own major stakes in tech companies, game publishers, infrastructure and social media platforms. An incredible amount of power and influence.

A power which they haven't really exerted yet, waiting for the right moments.

This Activision-Blizzard HK event is a wake up call for the public, hopefully. .

And at least some parts of some Western governments have their eyes open, banning Huwai infrastructure tech in places.

Next step should be for our governments to step in and draw down corporate privileges of doing business with China. That's going to be a bitter pill.
 
Liquid
Also posted in the Hong Kong thread but worthy of repeating here for the bigger picture within China with its treatment of pretty much anyone who isn't Han Chinese.



Strong words. China is indivisible.
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Uhm, do you really think that everyone who isn't Han Chinese wants to divide China?
 
stonesfan129
I view China as basically the new Soviet Union. Don't like them but why not try to work towards peace rather than a standoff?
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I am all for peace, however, I think we need to look at how China is affecting global democracies and freedoms, especially on the internet front. They have been pushing for and selling other countries technologies to spy on and squelch citizens freedoms on the web. I believe I read that 15 or 16 countries so far have bought equipment from and adopted similar internet policies as china. That means mass surveillance of citizens and complete blockage of the WWW except to proxies deemed acceptable by the gov.
 
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FoRiZon
I really hope it's just you mimicking the Chinese Government and not actually your thoughts.
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Yes, the "roll-eyes" emoticon should be the giveaway. That said, of course I am not for anarchy either. I like the US Constitution and Amendments. If only they were fully and fairly enforced. As far as China is concerned, they are sovereign and no power can stop them. Still, the UN and others can fairly name them human rights abusers. To levy punitive sanctions or war against them for this would be excessive under the current tense circumstances.
 
Rallywagon
I dont know that I would get so hyperbolic just yet. It's not like we are putting boots on the ground or finding contra's yet.
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I quietly and flatly submit that for a long time we've "spread democracy" not so much by boots and rifles but by supporting activists and insurrectionaries within and nearby targeted regimes. This provides a certain level of domestic deniability but certainly chaps off our adversaries, which our people will then find incomprehensible.
 
Dotini
I quietly and flatly submit that for a long time we've "spread democracy" not so much by boots and rifles but by supporting activists and insurrectionaries within and nearby targeted regimes. This provides a certain level of domestic deniability but certainly chaps off our adversaries, which our people will then find incomprehensible.
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Rallywagon
I dont know that I would get so hyperbolic just yet. It's not like we are putting boots on the ground or finding contra's yet.
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Technically I meant funding contra's, but the gist is the same. We are taking a stance on siding with democracy over communism and holding out aid to the PRC in the form of sanctioning the sales of non-lethal munitions to them. I understand we have a history of meddling. And it is highly probable we are looking to meddle, but these two factors alone do not add up to that sum.
 
Now the threat from China seems to be morphing into one that's going to rapidly affect the global economy. Markets in the US are down sharply this morning on such fears. It is speculated that the epidemic could slow and even bring China's economy to a halt. If so, that's going to have repercussions within China and around the world.
 
A fairly major story in the UK lately has been whether or not the UK is to grant Huawei (a Chinese telecoms company) a role in building the UK’s 5G network.

The US Government have repeatedly claimed that Huawei cannot be trusted and that they are secretly enabling back-door access to UK data for the Chinese government, although there is a definite lack of evidence of this.

Today, the UK government has announced that Huawei will be granted 35% of the 5G network contracts, and ‘limited access’ including no access to ‘sensitive’ data (nuclear bases etc.), but the decision has (predictably) gone down like a lead balloon with the US.

Huawei already provide parts of the UK telecoms network, and are well-placed to be involved in the UK’s 5G network - but this decision is likely to have a knock-on effect in the forthcoming negotiations between the UK and the US on a trade deal, with the US likely to balk at the fact that a Chinese company will be responsible for a large chunk of the UK’s future data infrastructure.
 
Touring Mars
A fairly major story in the UK lately has been whether or not the UK is to grant Huawei (a Chinese telecoms company) a role in building the UK’s 5G network.

The US Government have repeatedly claimed that Huawei cannot be trusted and that they are secretly enabling back-door access to UK data for the Chinese government, although there is a definite lack of evidence of this.

Today, the UK government has announced that Huawei will be granted 35% of the 5G network contracts, and ‘limited access’ including no access to ‘sensitive’ data (nuclear bases etc.), but the decision has (predictably) gone down like a lead balloon with the US.

Huawei already provide parts of the UK telecoms network, and are well-placed to be involved in the UK’s 5G network - but this decision is likely to have a knock-on effect in the forthcoming negotiations between the UK and the US on a trade deal, with the US likely to balk at the fact that a Chinese company will be responsible for a large chunk of the UK’s future data infrastructure.
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I have to say, this whole issue seems to be so odd on all sides...

Why the UK government is so adamant to allow this company access to our network... it seems to only be for cost saving measures, but then... 4g/3g network coverage is so bad in most of the UK... why do we even need 5g (which has it's fair share of critics)? ...all the while we're further pissing off the one nation that was supposed to be helping make Brexit wOndErfUl...
 
Touring Mars
Today, the UK government has announced that Huawei will be granted 35% of the 5G network contracts, and ‘limited access’ including no access to ‘sensitive’ data (nuclear bases etc.), but the decision has (predictably) gone down like a lead balloon with the US.

Huawei already provide parts of the UK telecoms network, and are well-placed to be involved in the UK’s 5G network - but this decision is likely to have a knock-on effect in the forthcoming negotiations between the UK and the US on a trade deal, with the US likely to balk at the fact that a Chinese company will be responsible for a large chunk of the UK’s future data infrastructure.
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Yes, Sec'y Pompeo has said such a decision will cost the UK their customary access to US secret or classified data. Although there may be some unspecified threshold yet to be crossed.
 
baldgye
why do we even need 5g
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Multiple reasons... 1) Kevin Bacon’s career as a mobile network salesman, 2) obviously, we cannot get 6G, 7G etc. without 5G first, and 3) my employer (Glasgow Uni) is building a ’5G campus’ (don’t ask) and hence they’d look a bit silly if 5G isn’t rolled out. I imagine there are also a few other reasons, but those three are the obvious ones that immediately spring to mind.
 
Touring Mars
Multiple reasons... 1) Kevin Bacon’s career as a mobile network salesman, 2) obviously, we cannot get 6G, 7G etc. without 5G first, and 3) my employer (Glasgow Uni) is building a ’5G campus’ (don’t ask) and hence they’d look a bit silly if 5G isn’t rolled out. I imagine there are also a few other reasons, but those three are the obvious ones that immediately spring to mind.
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This is a bit of a rant... but I'd just like 3G to work how it used to. Since the roll of out 4G, 3G has become basically worthless... so is the idea that when 5G rolls out, they'll make 4G worthless and everyone will need a more expensive network package to browse the internet?
 
baldgye
This is a bit of a rant... but I'd just like 3G to work how it used to. Since the roll of out 4G, 3G has become basically worthless... so is the idea that when 5G rolls out, they'll make 4G worthless and everyone will need a more expensive network package to browse the internet?
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4G will be part of 5G as a legacy connection. The issue with 5G so far is that it is very much a "line of sight" network. This will work fine in urban and downtown areas that have lots of buildings and the such, once you start getting out into the burbs and rural areas, 5G starts to become pretty unfeasible due to the AP density that is needed for 5G.
 
China is 16% of the global economy. It seems very realistic that China is going to experience serious problems, including its economy. Possibly recession, quarantine, etc. Does the rest of the world stand to suffer consequences as well? What about Europe, particularly Germany? Isn't China the primary export market for Germany? How much business does the UK do with China?
 
Today, February 10th, will be an interesting reality check on the effects of coronavirus on the Chinese supply chain to the global economy. Today marks the end of the extended Chinese New Year for many businesses.
 
Dotini
China is 16% of the global economy. It seems very realistic that China is going to experience serious problems, including its economy. Possibly recession, quarantine, etc. Does the rest of the world stand to suffer consequences as well? What about Europe, particularly Germany? Isn't China the primary export market for Germany? How much business does the UK do with China?
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We export £22.6 billions worth and import £44.7 billion. That's 3.5% of out exports and 6.6% of our imports (2018 figures)

China is our 6th largest export market and 4th largest import.
 
Dotini
Now the threat from China seems to be morphing into one that's going to rapidly affect the global economy. Markets in the US are down sharply this morning on such fears. It is speculated that the epidemic could slow and even bring China's economy to a halt. If so, that's going to have repercussions within China and around the world.
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It's no mystery that China has a real estate bubble that makes the US in 2008 look like Amazon packing material. The country is full of empty cities, built by somebody, for somebody, and paid for by somebody else, but with nobody in them. And they're falling apart within years of being built. It makes no sense and it's unsustainable. Within 15 years now their bubble is going to burst in a 1.6 billion citizens kind of way, not a 300 million citizens kind of way, and all the American companies who have jumped on the China train to make a quick buck are going to be pretty sad about it.
 
Outstanding article:

ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH OPINION POLITICS & PROTEST
China’s dream of unifying with Taiwan is fading fast amid the coronavirus and Hong Kong protests
27 March 2020 23:00
Suzanne Pepper

In Beijing, paramount leader Xi Jinping must be wondering what further calamities can befall his grand plans for China’s rejuvenation. Hong Kong’s still-unresolved 2019 political insurrection is now being eclipsed by an even greater crisis, also of his government’s making.

The consequences of China’s lax public health standards and obsessive public security concerns have combined to create the current flu epidemic, that began late last year in central China and has since spread throughout the world. But the coronavirus pandemic is only the most spectacular of Xi’s troubles.

Lost in the international glare of collapsing stock markets and quarantined cities are the ongoing reverberations of Hong Kong’s defiance.

Its aftershocks are now threatening to scuttle Xi’s hope of adding Taiwan to the list of China’s reunification accomplishments any time soon, even as the Hong Kong experiment itself seems to be drifting further from his grasp.
etc.
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https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/...ing-fast-amid-coronavirus-hong-kong-protests/
 
The Threat From China - Real or Not?

For me I see China as a threat to the US economy but this is not a bad thing in reality. The US will still have the might they have now and China will have improved so well done China and US don't worry you will be fine, even if the US became the second largest economy that is still a huge success so no worries unless we get the hardheads who can not accept being second for some odd reason they have to be first! never understood that notion.
Military wise the US is still the largest in the world and I think it will stay that way, I see China will be the second largest military wise but again this is not a problem as I can see, I haven't seen China hinting about using any of their arsenal for any reason, I see China as having this arsenal just in case anyone decides to try and take advantage the same as the US the UK and lots of other countries have some big nasty bombs just as a warning to say we don't ever want to use them but please don't try your luck as we will if pushed use them.
Now I don't ever want to upset any of our American members but history has shown us when it comes to propaganda the US and the UK are very good at it, WMD in Iraq comes to mind, we all know there wasn't any.
So on that I take what my own UK government puts out and what the US government put out there with a pinch of salt and all the talk of China being a threat to the US I need hard evidence as so far I haven't seen any worth taking note of.
My answer to the OP is Threat from China real or not I have to say not.
 
Keef
It's no mystery that China has a real estate bubble that makes the US in 2008 look like Amazon packing material. The country is full of empty cities, built by somebody, for somebody, and paid for by somebody else, but with nobody in them. And they're falling apart within years of being built. It makes no sense and it's unsustainable. Within 15 years now their bubble is going to burst in a 1.6 billion citizens kind of way, not a 300 million citizens kind of way, and all the American companies who have jumped on the China train to make a quick buck are going to be pretty sad about it.
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With the China real estate bubble issue, that's been on the cards for a decade already and it still doesn't seem to be having any real issue for the moment. I think the government realises that once or whenever the bubble actually pops, there will be an horde of angry and disappointed population who will want to have a change back to the percieved idea that there are able to make some money out of their home place as well as paying for their mortage.

I wouldn't be too surprised if there were already government funding behind the scenes to ensure that it doesn't burst badly at any point, although consdering the country economy is not in a good shape due to the pandemic and economy production not yet back up to pre pandemic level, it may be worth keeping an eye on for the next two years to see what they will do.

That country is a conumdrum in how they seemingly seem to not have any issue with their housing bubble. Although I guess having their extremely well controlled city borders that requires their own populations to have a city visa to work in and can only have their own house in their hometown only, rather than just anywhere, would make that a much easier thing to manage. Blew my mind when I learnt about that.
 
MikeV27
The CPC is not to be trusted. Wouldn’t be surprised if they released this virus on purpose.
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As much as I don't want to buy into a conspiracy theory, it does seem like something the Chinese government would do. My first reaction when I heard a mystery virus was spreading in China was that the government released it to take the world's eyes off Hong Kong. Whether it was intentionally released or not, it did make most of us forget that the people in Hong Kong were being killed by their government.
 
The worst part is the W.H.O. just parrots whatever the CPC says. They are in China’s pocket and are just as untrustworthy in my eyes.

Of course the MSM and all the sheep go after America/Trump for not doing enough while completely ignoring the route cause of this. People are ****ing stupid.
 

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