TheVerge: Wait for GT7 'unacceptable'

[crooky369]

PD should have done what seemingly every other developer has been doing this generation and release a remaster of an existing PS3 game. GT6 with a snazzy new name, locked 60fps gameplay, more cars on track and other little improvements like the lighting mentioned earlier where the near decade old PS3 can't keep up.

Throw in a fan favourite track like Pikes Peak with around 50 of the latest and greatest cars (La Ferrari, McLaren P1 etc) and they'd be onto a winner I think.

 

[Pseudopod]

I am not sure it drops that much even in 1080P mode . How can you say that ? Someone needs to test with a clean install with latest version Here is a test with v1.3




TBH I do not think most people can tell at what fps the game is running except the extreme condition.

That is some very gran turismo driving skill

PD should have done what seemingly every other developer has been doing this generation and release a remaster of an existing PS3 game. GT6 with a snazzy new name, locked 60fps gameplay, more cars on track and other little improvements like the lighting mentioned earlier where the near decade old PS3 can't keep up.

Throw in a fan favourite track like Pikes Peak with around 50 of the latest and greatest cars (La Ferrari, McLaren P1 etc) and they'd be onto a winner I think.

I am ashamed to admit that I would probably have bought that.

 

[glassjaw]

I don't know if I'd use the word unacceptable, but The Verge have definitely got a point. GT6 should have been a PS4 launch title. Instead, they released a new game on dying hardware that barely improved on the last, as Forza, Project Cars, and soon Assetto Corsa are doing laps around market share that used to be theirs. Sony & PD need to get their priorities in check, figure out how to develop a game as fast as the rest of the world apparently can, and make something that isn't seriously lacking in quality, with features players are actually asking for.

 

[TokoTurismo]

A not insignificant number of those premiums are duplicates or near duplicates so 471 isn't an accurate unique premium car count. Base models for example are just non-liveried versions of race cars and count as a separate car. Identical cars with differing liveries are also counted as unique cars like many of the premium GT500 cars for example.

Let's not forget how outdated the premium car list is as well. I mean, not one new car from 2015/16, just a bunch of 2010/12s here and there.

 

[Shirrako]

Let me get this straight TheVerge...

Working on a game for a longer time = "This is unacceptable!"
Rushing a game = "This game sucks"

TheVerge, Who?

 

[AudiMan2011]

Working on a game for a longer time = "This is unacceptable!"
Rushing a game = "This game sucks"

Gamers in a nutshell.

 

[Alex Pepe]

Hey man just wanted to tell you that if you don't want to hear people complaining then you might be better off avoiding threads with titles like "Wait for GT7 unacceptable". You are no different and if for some reason you don't get the some people feel better if they get this stuff off their chest...well, forums are not for you.

The point is that the wait is very acceptable and seeing as you have no earthly idea of how to make a video game, well you dont know what is "acceptable".

Im not here to fight though. Sorry for my ass hole comment.

 

[Imari]

...seeing as you have no earthly idea of how to make a video game...

Well, I'm glad that you know so much about me by reading my post on an internet message board. Can I make sweeping, generic statements based on no factual information about you too?

You may be surprised to notice that I never made any statement about whether the wait for GT7 was acceptable or not. I merely sarcastically pointed out that you don't get to tell other people what to think, especially in a thread where the poster's opinion aligns almost perfectly with that of the OP.

You have no idea whether I think the wait for GT7 is acceptable, although you're clearly happy to assume that I think it's not. Just as you're happy to assume that I know nothing about game design and development. Are there any more assumptions you've made about me that you'd like to share, or is that your lot?

 

[JTB10000]

.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Let's not forget how outdated the premium car list is as well. I mean, not one new car from 2015/16, just a bunch of 2010/12s here and there.

We did get M4 for free via update though But overall they have the most diverse and unique cars one can hope for. GT7 I guess there will be new cars but I hope they premiums the old ones too like the toyota 7 race car even though it has a cockpit. I love that car and would like it be to upgraded.

 

[dr_slump]

Let's not forget how outdated the premium car list is as well. I mean, not one new car from 2015/16, just a bunch of 2010/12s here and there.

If you expect PD to release every single car they've modelled since release of GT6, then I'd say your expectations are way too high.

PD is pretty much done with GT6 in this regard, some additional VGT cars, but not much more. They're saving cars for GT7.

 

[Haulin_Hebrew]

Honestly with Forza 6, PCars and AC next year, I'm no longer worried about GT7's release date, enough quality racing titles to occupy my time.

My sentiments exactly @SimTourist I think it's time we stop flocking to Polyphony Digital waiting for their next offering like baby birds, GT is NOT our only Sim racing option on PS console, We have Project CARS, 2015 F1 on 7/21/0215, Assetto Corsa 2016, they are all unique, with each their own strengths and specialties, which should be celebrated, we haven't received since the beginning of the GT series where it wasn't lacking in one area or another, so lets stop expecting GT to be the ONE STOP Perfect Sim Racer, because In my opinion there is no such thing as the perfect Sim Racer. And realistically should not be expected, Kaz do what you do best, A ton of cars, Good Physics & Graphics, and A decent variety of Circuits, (Improve the AI, and upgrade standard to premium cars, and go above and beyond your previous attempts to add Porsche ) and I will buy GT7 and enjoy it! We can't have it all, so buy the Sim Racers that fit your Racing needs. It would be great if they staggered the release years too GT and Project CARS one Year, and F1 and Assetto Corsa the next.

 

[Zuku]

My sentiments exactly @SimTourist I think it's time we stop flocking to Polyphony Digital waiting for their next offering like baby birds, GT is NOT our only Sim racing option on PS console, We have Project CARS, 2015 F1 on 7/21/0215, Assetto Corsa 2016, they are all unique, with each their own strengths and specialties, which should be celebrated, we haven't received since the beginning of the GT series where it wasn't lacking in one area or another, so lets stop expecting GT to be the ONE STOP Perfect Sim Racer, because In my opinion there is no such thing as the perfect Sim Racer. And realistically should not be expected, Kaz do what you do best, A ton of cars, Good Physics & Graphics, and A decent variety of Circuits, (Improve the AI, and upgrade standard to premium cars, and go above and beyond your previous attempts to add Porsche ) and I will buy GT7 and enjoy it! We can't have it all, so buy the Sim Racers that fit your Racing needs. It would be great if they staggered the release years too GT and Project CARS one Year, and F1 and Assetto Corsa the next.

This part in bold if it did bold is what I want more people to do they end up finding things out. Use to be the guy that didn't venture outside the mainstream games like example RPG: Final Fantasy Racing: NFS and GT or Midnight Club etc etc.

When you venture outside you find out the world isn't flat, and it's actually round with a crap load of options.

 

[TokoTurismo]

If you expect PD to release every single car they've modelled since release of GT6, then I'd say your expectations are way too high.

PD is pretty much done with GT6 in this regard, some additional VGT cars, but not much more. They're saving cars for GT7.

I never had any expectation for PD releasing REAL cars to begin with, due to how slow they model cars...

 

[dr_slump]

@TokoTurismo
Due to how slow they model cars?

How slow are they compared to other studios considering the relative size, relative to the average complexity of a new car? How much more efficient are other studios at modeling cars?

 

[TokoTurismo]

@TokoTurismo
Due to how slow they model cars?

How slow are they compared to other studios considering the relative size, relative to the average complexity of a new car? How much more efficient are other studios at modeling cars?

I'm no expert when it comes to car modeling, but I've heard it takes 6 months to model a single car, especially if it's one man doing it. Studios like T10 has been outsourcing and they have at least 10 employlees modeling a car (I think that's what I've heard).

 

[Pseudopod]

I'm no expert when it comes to car modeling, but I've heard it takes 6 months to model a single car, especially if it's one man doing it. Studios like T10 has been outsourcing and they have at least 10 employlees modeling a car (I think that's what I've heard).

So if they have 10 people modelling cars, that's 10 cars per 6 months. Not bad at all.

 

[TokoTurismo]

So if they have 10 people modelling cars, that's 10 cars per 6 months. Not bad at all.

I know right? T10 also has another studio helping them model cars (I forgot the name of though, but they also help with other games as well.)

 

[CinnamonOD]

Outsourcing has thrown amazing results to the Forza series, looking at the announcements on the news section and seeing all the recent vehicles being added just surprises me.

I hope PD will see the potential of outsourcing some of their work one of these days .

 

[TokoTurismo]

Outsourcing has thrown amazing results to the Forza series, looking at the announcements on the news section and seeing all the recent vehicles being added just surprises me.

I hope PD will see the potential of outsourcing some of their work one of these days .

Agreed! :tup:

 

[Pseudopod]

I'm sure PD can get some good results from outsourcing car modelling as well, if they just set very detailed demands for the final result.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@TokoTurismo
Due to how slow they model cars?

How slow are they compared to other studios considering the relative size, relative to the average complexity of a new car? How much more efficient are other studios at modeling cars?

Forza 6 will launch with 450 fully next gen ready cars, less than 2 years after the introduction of the next gen console. PD has been modeling premium cars that are next gen ready for 10 years and haven't modeled that many unique premium cars in that time. By the time GT7 launchs, T10 will likely have surpassed them in next gen ready car count in the space of 3 years, starting from scratch and spotting PD a head start of several years.

 

[dr_slump]

@Johnnypenso

I already know all those numbers, but that's not what the question was about.
It still doesn't answer if PDs processes and employees are slower at creating cars than other studios. How many more total man hours does it take in average per car, relative to the complexity of the cars?

You must understand, low quantity isn't equal slowness.

 

[DarthMosco]

Turn 10 only have more modelers, they aren't faster, and I don't think they have more modelers on the same car, it doesn't make sense

We're not keeping anything back," Greenawalt said. "I think people misunderstand the way these things work. It takes us six months to build a car, so when I say there's a ten-car pack launching day one--they're not done. We're not done with them yet."

"So we're not holding anything back; we were crunching to make sure we had this level of quality on all 200 cars. Every one had to be Forza-level of quality. This was as many as we could build-- straight up," he added.



Greenawalt explained that Turn 10 designed and developed Forza 5 cars in waves, so that the final 200 could be ready in time to be included on-disc. Months later, the developer began work on the various vehicles that will be delivered as day-one DLC, Greenawalt said. This process will continue so new cars can be delivered the first week of every month beginning in January and running through March as part of the$50 Forza 5 DLC Pass.

"The whole thing is timed so that we're getting them done right before we launch them," he said.

"The issue is, when you're trying to do new cars and it takes us six months to build a car, it's hard to stay fresh," he added. "Even when we get data from the manufacturers, they build their cars up to the last second, and then we get the data and we've got to add six months on top. And if you want to have a hot car, you need to start it as late as possible, which means finishing it as late as possible."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/turn-10-we-re-not-holding-back-cars-for-forza-5-dlc/1100-6416129/

 

[Johnnypenso]

@TokoTurismo
Due to how slow they model cars?

How slow are they compared to other studios considering the relative size, relative to the average complexity of a new car? How much more efficient are other studios at modeling cars?

Clearly Toko is just questioning PD's total output of cars vs. T10's total output of cars. No one really cares how efficient the working staff is nor is it relevant, all we really care about is how many cars are made and find their way into the game. The larger point and the only one that matters, is that T10 are pumping out cars at a considerably faster rate than PD.

I know right? T10 also has another studio helping them model cars (I forgot the name of though, but they also help with other games as well.)

That would be these guys: http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php

 

[dr_slump]

6 month sounds about right, it's pretty much the most common number to be called.

The larger point and the only one that matters, is that T10 are pumping out cars at a considerably faster rate than PD.

T10 or the partner studios/companies?
Or should we better say Microsoft?
Forza is a project that releases games every year with a competely different bussines model, does this have anything to do with it? Perhaps Microsoft has a completely different idea of generating profit, more focused on the whole Xbox thingy.

EDIT: @Johnnypenso (just because I edited the comment)

Anyway:
How does it make PD slow?

I'm not here asking because I care the slightest bit about wether Sony or Microsoft puts more money into their series. I'm not even the one who directly started with this "but Forza" stuff.

I just wanted to know why on earth it makes PD slow, unrelated to their size compared to other studios.

 

[TokoTurismo]

6 month sounds about right, it's pretty much the most common number to be called.


T10 or the partner studios/companies?
Or should we better say Microsoft?
Forza is a project that releases games every year with a competely different bussines model, does this have anything to do with it? Perhaps Microsoft has a completely different idea of generating profit, more focused on the whole Xbox thingy.

EDIT: @Johnnypenso (just because I edited the comment)

Anyway:
How does it make PD slow?

I'm not here asking because I care the slightest bit about wether Sony or Microsoft puts more money into their series. I'm not even the one who directly started with this "but Forza" stuff.

I just wanted to know why on earth it makes PD slow, unrelated to their size compared to other studios.

I guess all I can say is due to PD modeling cars "in house" and not outsourcing its car modeling group, is why I said they're slower at modeling. We know the rest of the cars they're modeling are being saved for GT7, but hear me out on this one. Let's go back in time shall we? Back when FM5 launched, it had 200 cars that were all remodeled from scratch, taking T10 2 years to be done. GT5 also launched with 200 cars as well, but it took PD 5 whole years to remodel the premiums from scratch. And adding to that, if PD weren't slow, you will see a ton of brand new cars as DLC like how T10's releases DLC every month with 10 cars.

So far, for GT6, there was only like 4(?) new real cars added (as well as the Senna race cars), whereas there was 1 or 2 VGT cars (and 3 for the duplicate line up like the Alpine and SRT cars) added in certain months. I'm not trying to make this a verses thread, but it's only my imo of why I think PD is slower at modeling cars. If you noticed, Driveclub releases 5 new cars every month too. Hoped this post answered you're questioned.

Clearly Toko is just questioning PD's total output of cars vs. T10's total output of cars. No one really cares how efficient the working staff is nor is it relevant, all we really care about is how many cars are made and find their way into the game. The larger point and the only one that matters, is that T10 are pumping out cars at a considerably faster rate than PD.

This. 👍 This was what I getting at. I've been looking at T10 and their rate at modeling cars for awhile and they really are fast if you think about it, especially when it comes to remodeling their cars from scratch. FM5 showed this which took them only 2 years.

That would be these guys: http://www.glassegg.com/portfolio.php

Phew, thanks a lot Johnny, lord blesses you.

I was getting very worried due to not being able to remember which studio T10 had to help them model cars, but You've saved me man. Respect. 👍👍 And there you have it, it was these guys called Glass Egg that helped, who I tried to remember. Will ya look at that? They even helped Driveclub! This I didn't know. Thank you again Johnny. :tup:

Turn 10 only have more modelers, they aren't faster, and I don't think they have more modelers on the same car, it doesn't make sense


http://www.gamespot.com/articles/turn-10-we-re-not-holding-back-cars-for-forza-5-dlc/1100-6416129/

Yes, that is true. They probably have modelers working on each individual cars and not a single one at a time. Also IMO that does count them as being faster. More = Better and finishing work faster.

 

[dr_slump]

So because we don't know wether it's PD or Sony who makes decisions for things such as outsourcing and the size of PD itself (number of employees), we can't really say PD is slow given the circumstances.

 

[Tenacious D]

For that matter, no one cares about those of us complaining about cars that have technical issues in Forza, such as with the Livery Editor. Nor has anyone brought up the tiny game Forza 5 was, about as small as Forza 1, and that's with 400-ish people slaving away on it, including contractors. Given how small a game F5 was, with such a massive workforce, PD is keeping pace rather well.

 

[Johnnypenso]

For that matter, no one cares about those of us complaining about cars that have technical issues in Forza, such as with the Livery Editor. Nor has anyone brought up the tiny game Forza 5 was, about as small as Forza 1, and that's with 400-ish people slaving away on it, including contractors. Given how small a game F5 was, with such a massive workforce, PD is keeping pace rather well.

Forza Forum