Touring Car discussion - WTCC, BTCC etcTouring Cars 

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Problem is I believe, there's like 3 or 4 different TCR series... just make a single TCR championship
TCR Series is the headline act. Everything else is styled as a domestic or regional series to promote grassroots interest and hopefully attact crowds and drivers to the top level.
 
So, as a newcomer to TCR, why are we not funding this? The Georgia rounds had good racing all around even though the field was kind of small... Problem is I believe, there's like 3 or 4 different TCR series... just make a single TCR championship and throw WTCC in the garbage, it could potentially be as good around the globe as the SuperTouring regs of the early 1990s.
TCR is a car specification, not just a single series. Having multiple series running the specification adds additional production for manufacturers to amortize car costs and the potential for profits incentivizes manufacturer participation.

It makes no sense to restrict TCR spec cars to one series. The TCR International Series is the top series and races across the Eurasian continent, but not every team interested in TCR can afford to traverse the world's largest continent or has the ability to compete at that level, hence we have (the wildly popular) TCR ADAC in Germany, as well as TCR STCC, TCR Benelux, TCR Asia, TCR Italy, TCR Middle East etc. TCR cars are also eligible to race in lower classes in VLN, Super Taikyu, 24H series, 24H TCE series and several stand-alone endurance races. Like GT3 and GT4, you can run a TCR across a number of series, formats and in a number of places, which the touring car racing world is all the better for.
 
TCR International is the headline series of the TCR specification and it's designed like the SEAT Leon Cup Series to be able to run for long distances and provide exciting racing at a cheaper cost. That's why marques like Audi have eligible models despite having another series having to be left because of severe costs which were highlighted for other reasons. (The Emissions Scandal) This series allows Audi and marques like that to have a competitive car being able to be sold to customers without spending even GT3 money.
The national series are what many other Touring Car series has been before but in a much more structured way. TCR Germany, STCC, Benelux, Asia, Italy etc are intended to allow drivers young or old to see a higher series if they wish to do so or continue in the current series. E.g. Roberto Colciago is in his 30s/40s and went from TCR Italy to the International series.

The reason why WTCC isn't in the bin it deserves to be is because it's an FIA series and TCR is not. TCR is run by former (pre-2014) promoter Marcello Lotti and is completely separate. They'll never adopt TCR as the top flight Touring Car series because the WTCC are to arrogant to think that despite the field diminishing, the racing being boring and numerous other things that TCR would be an admittance that they were wrong to go to this formula.
 
TCR is a car specification, not just a single series. Having multiple series running the specification adds additional production for manufacturers to amortize car costs and the potential for profits incentivizes manufacturer participation.

It makes no sense to restrict TCR spec cars to one series. The TCR International Series is the top series and races across the Eurasian continent, but not every team interested in TCR can afford to traverse the world's largest continent or has the ability to compete at that level, hence we have (the wildly popular) TCR ADAC in Germany, as well as TCR STCC, TCR Benelux, TCR Asia, TCR Italy, TCR Middle East etc. TCR cars are also eligible to race in lower classes in VLN, Super Taikyu, 24H series, 24H TCE series and several stand-alone endurance races. Like GT3 and GT4, you can run a TCR across a number of series, formats and in a number of places, which the touring car racing world is all the better for.

Yeah I get that, but the problem is there's small grids pretty much everywhere. I reckon you could combine a few of those and get more interesting grids without affecting costs all that much, like TCR Spain and Portugal, or Italy and Germany/Benelux, which are all relatively close in distance.
 
Yeah I get that, but the problem is there's small grids pretty much everywhere. I reckon you could combine a few of those and get more interesting grids without affecting costs all that much, like TCR Spain and Portugal, or Italy and Germany/Benelux, which are all relatively close in distance.
TCR Germany has 30-40 cars. I wouldn't recommend combining that with anything.
 
Yeah I get that, but the problem is there's small grids pretty much everywhere. I reckon you could combine a few of those and get more interesting grids without affecting costs all that much, like TCR Spain and Portugal, or Italy and Germany/Benelux, which are all relatively close in distance.

If you look back at last year, you'll find that the field size of the International series changed from round to round. Just under 20 cars, like Georgia was this weekend, is actually normal, but it depends on where they are. I'm not sure international motorsport is that big in Georgia, so I would expect the numbers to go up as the year goes on (or hope at the very least...). The fields tend to get larger when they go to eastern Asia, Thailand and Macau in particular had some fairly large entry lists with the local teams in the mix. (by the way, the Thailand races were some of the best of 2016, but Macau was a waste of time.) I do think it's a good sign that it's year 3 of the formula, and there are already a dozen or so sub-series in place.

Hopefully we can see an international invitational TCR round(Bathurst 12H, I'm looking at you).

TCR at the mountain? Yes! In the Bathurst 12h? Mmm... With the amount of GT3s they're allowing now, I'm not sure you really want cars that much slower that GT4 spec in that race, if this year was anything to go by...
 
If you look back at last year, you'll find that the field size of the International series changed from round to round. Just under 20 cars, like Georgia was this weekend, is actually normal, but it depends on where they are. I'm not sure international motorsport is that big in Georgia, so I would expect the numbers to go up as the year goes on (or hope at the very least...). The fields tend to get larger when they go to eastern Asia, Thailand and Macau in particular had some fairly large entry lists with the local teams in the mix. (by the way, the Thailand races were some of the best of 2016, but Macau was a waste of time.) I do think it's a good sign that it's year 3 of the formula, and there are already a dozen or so sub-series in place.



TCR at the mountain? Yes! In the Bathurst 12h? Mmm... With the amount of GT3s they're allowing now, I'm not sure you really want cars that much slower that GT4 spec in that race, if this year was anything to go by...
There was a chance for invites this year(as a way to start Australian TCR), but it's more likely for next year.

Manufacturers are keen to join. We'll see.
 
Yeah I get that, but the problem is there's small grids pretty much everywhere. I reckon you could combine a few of those and get more interesting grids without affecting costs all that much, like TCR Spain and Portugal, or Italy and Germany/Benelux, which are all relatively close in distance.
I'm not sure I share your optimism about keeping costs low in combined series.

As mentioned earlier, Germany is full (44 car capacity grid!) and the other countries in Europe that make sense to pair together already have (Spain-Portugal, Belgium-Netherlands-Luxembourg and Scandinavia). Pairing off any further could introduce logistics issues and possibly administrative problems. Most of these markets are also nascent markets for touring car racing, so I say let them have room to grow until it's not feasible anymore. Besides STCC, these aren't headliner series, so instant large grids aren't a requirement anyway. Combining a national series with a disparate market could discourage entries from locals, so give them time first.
TCR at the mountain? Yes! In the Bathurst 12h? Mmm... With the amount of GT3s they're allowing now, I'm not sure you really want cars that much slower that GT4 spec in that race, if this year was anything to go by...
TCR cars aren't "much slower" than GT4 cars, at least given what "much slower" means to me. GT4 cars were only 5 seconds quicker in qualifying for VLN1 last month and only 3 seconds faster in qualifying for the 12 hours of Mugello. I'd estimate the difference at Bathurst would be about the same as at Mugello.
 
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That is why Colin is the best, 2017 Champion right there.

👍 He did look the class of the field. Helped by the BMW looking like an early contender for 2017's bestestest car.

Honda looked down on power (only team running Neil Brown engines?) and the Subarus had a shocking event. :lol:
 
Ever since Dynamics have switched to the Vtec (whichever year they had the Tourer with) they've struggled for straight line speed.
 
👍 He did look the class of the field. Helped by the BMW looking like an early contender for 2017's bestestest car.

Honda looked down on power (only team running Neil Brown engines?) and the Subarus had a shocking event. :lol:

The Subaru's look awful at the moment. I expected more from them at Brands, but I think that the changes forced upon them has really hurt them. It wouldn't surprise me if those changes were reviewed and altered within the coming weeks.

Honda's down on power? They looked okay, but I didn't watch the speed traps. The Honda's make up ground everywhere else on the circuit, so I guess that their boost has been restricted a little to aid the other teams perhaps? Jack Goff was looking quite content in his Honda, he certainly seems more feisty at the moment.
 
Interesting. If it was me, i'd offer some variance to the series. Add it as a class to the British GT series and replace the Spa round with a trip to Thruxton for 3 20-30 minute sprint races on a different points system with the usual feeder series to keep both of those in the UK.

Also, to increase the season length, have another Sprint Race weekend at somewhere like Croft or Brands Indy.
 
British GT already suffers with bad driving standards between Gt3 and GT4. Another class wouldn't help that, British circuits on the whole aren't really big enough for multi-class racing.


I don't see the point in TCR in the UK, maybe if NGTC didn't work it would've been a viable option.
 
British GT already suffers with bad driving standards between Gt3 and GT4. Another class wouldn't help that, British circuits on the whole aren't really big enough for multi-class racing.


I don't see the point in TCR in the UK, maybe if NGTC didn't work it would've been a viable option.
I don't think bad driving standards is really an argument in this case. I can see what you mean by the NGTC point and I agree with that. However, the point of the idea was to make it a part of the GT field and add 2 separate rounds for TCR class only in order to vary the schedule a bit.
 
TCR would be a support series, not another class on the circuit in the British GT championship. After all, TCR isn't GT.
 
TCR would be a support series, not another class on the circuit in the British GT championship. After all, TCR isn't GT.
Yes they're not GT but they were also designed to be able to run long distances. Just use the 24h TCES series and the Nurburgring 24h as a reference. Realistically, they'll add 10 cars at most and 6 on a usual weekend so my sprint race idea may not work because of poor numbers.
 
I've marshalled a 100 minute race with 6 Aston Martin's on a British GT weekend, they'll race small grids if they want.
 
Quick question, does anyone know points table for constructors championship used in the 1998 BTCC season? It's easy to find one for individual driver placement, but no sign of constructors.
 
Yes they're not GT but they were also designed to be able to run long distances. Just use the 24h TCES series and the Nurburgring 24h as a reference. Realistically, they'll add 10 cars at most and 6 on a usual weekend so my sprint race idea may not work because of poor numbers.

The British GT grid has been running at capacity for the last couple of years, and FWD cars are less than liked by SRO after someone showed up in 2003 with an insanely quick Golf that challenged some Porsche/Ferrari competitors in the Cup class.

No way will TCR be added to British GT!
 
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