Touring Car discussion - WTCC, BTCC etcTouring Cars 

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Furinkazen
Really excellent BTCC today, Sutton marked himself out as a potential champion for this year.
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I totally agree. Sutton is driving well, he's quick in all the right places and defends very well too. It was interesting watching him in race 2 when he was able to stick with Turkington and being able to apply some pressure too. If Collard hadn't have been there, the final few laps could have been very interesting indeed.

Fair play to Jackson on the last lap of race 3, he was always going to hold his racing line and push Sutton out wide. It didn't look particularly nice, but every other driver would have done the exact same thing.

Interesting to hear the Plato never got his opportunity to test Suttons car in Wales. I wonder why that never happened? He was at least more competitive today, but it is a rwd track.

Has Tom Ingram's luck ran out? Another bad weekend for him. It would be nice to see him come back strong after the mid season break.
 
Ian_83
I totally agree. Sutton is driving well, he's quick in all the right places and defends very well too. It was interesting watching him in race 2 when he was able to stick with Turkington and being able to apply some pressure too. If Collard hadn't have been there, the final few laps could have been very interesting indeed.

Fair play to Jackson on the last lap of race 3, he was always going to hold his racing line and push Sutton out wide. It didn't look particularly nice, but every other driver would have done the exact same thing.

Interesting to hear the Plato never got his opportunity to test Suttons car in Wales. I wonder why that never happened? He was at least more competitive today, but it is a rwd track.

Has Tom Ingram's luck ran out? Another bad weekend for him. It would be nice to see him come back strong after the mid season break.
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Luck? Luck???? I'm an Adam Morgan fan, notice how that's gone for him last couple weekends and then come back to me about luck :lol:
 
Adam who? :sly:

Adam did much better this weekend, he finished a couple of races and there were no fires either. :crazy: In all seriousness, the guy must be pulling his hair out at the moment.
 
Sutton was brilliant all weekend, mind you, he's been pretty awesome all season so far. To be honest, with his recent results and consistency, I'm starting to pitch him as a dark horse for the title. Such a great racer, he's quick, defends well and is fair, was great watching him tussle with Turkington all weekend too.

As for Ingram, I really feel for him, his look as ran out the past 2 meetings, getting involved with issues that are 9 times out 10, not his fault. With that contact with Cook (which I thought was a little naught from Cook TBH) in race 3 (?) being an example. Although, with Ingram, no doubt he'll bounce back at Knockhill after the break.

Same goes for Adam Morgan, he hasn't had the run of things recently, which is a shame, as that Merc has the pace to be a front-funner most weekends. Anyhow, now to wait what'll feel like forever, with the summer break until Knockhill.
 
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GOTMAXPOWER
I understand BTCC must protect their image but they seem to keen to cover over any bad news, at Thruxton the drivers were scared to say on ITV that the track is a dangerous mess
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This isn't the first time there has been a serious accident at Thruxton. It's a brilliant little circuit, but maybe it needs a reconfiguration in the name of safety. It wouldn't be too hard, and would keep the original character. The circuit should continue on at Turn 6 and go left onto the runway, then turn right at the end of the runway and back on to the original circuit. Turn 8 should be a tighter right and continue on parallel to the grass runway. Then it's left onto the sealed runway, left again behind the pits (maybe with a Tamburello-style sequence of bends for safety) and rejoin at the final chicane with a double-apex right.
 
lol whut? Any change to the layout would kill Thruxton.
 
prisonermonkeys
This isn't the first time there has been a serious accident at Thruxton. It's a brilliant little circuit, but maybe it needs a reconfiguration in the name of safety. It wouldn't be too hard, and would keep the original character. The circuit should continue on at Turn 6 and go left onto the runway, then turn right at the end of the runway and back on to the original circuit. Turn 8 should be a tighter right and continue on parallel to the grass runway. Then it's left onto the sealed runway, left again behind the pits (maybe with a Tamburello-style sequence of bends for safety) and rejoin at the final chicane with a double-apex right.
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It is a great circuit, but you don't have small accidents at Thruxton.

The HSCC seem to have stopped racing there after 3 just events, no doubt that our accidents there were a big part of that decision. If you look at the events listing for the circuit, you can see that it's not all that well used. It's probably used more as an airport and a track experience venue.

Any changes to the layout would ruin it IMO, that whole Noble to Church section is what makes it. Drivers like it because it's fast, but as a venue it has little else going for it, unless it happens to be on your door step.
 
prisonermonkeys
This isn't the first time there has been a serious accident at Thruxton. It's a brilliant little circuit, but maybe it needs a reconfiguration in the name of safety. It wouldn't be too hard, and would keep the original character. The circuit should continue on at Turn 6 and go left onto the runway, then turn right at the end of the runway and back on to the original circuit. Turn 8 should be a tighter right and continue on parallel to the grass runway. Then it's left onto the sealed runway, left again behind the pits (maybe with a Tamburello-style sequence of bends for safety) and rejoin at the final chicane with a double-apex right.
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I think just fixing the run off areas would be a good start, they've tried in the last few years (they replaced a bloke chucking tyres vaguely in front of a tree with an unprotected barrier even closer to the track) but it still needs lots more work.
 
A club style right/left chicane at Church where the old unused runway meets the circuit might drag the speed down a bit there, and there's room for a gravel trap/fence. For the most part I'd be against messing up Thruxtons "high speed sweeper" nature, however, it they put in a chicane at Church and opened up the infield there and at Club it would provide some much needed additional spectating space (Ideally the inside of Cobb too). Most of that could be done without the massive expense of laying new circuit - lets be honest BARC don't have the money to throw at big upgrades.
 
To be honest, I too think it'd be sacrilegious to mess with Thruxton's layout, would ruin in if I'm honest. The main appeal of Thruxton is it's super fast nature, and Church corner is the centre piece of that. And I can imagine it wouldn't go down well with the drivers if such significant changes were made to circuit, let alone Church on itself.

From how I see it, the problem lies with the run-offs. Up to last year, the run-off at Church was particularly bad, as all there was to stop the drivers was some grass (bumpy at that), a poorly constructed "tyre wall" and then trees. You only have to look at Ollie Jackson and Simon Belchers accidents in 2014 for that. And this year, an armco barrier was placed, perhaps to close to track, not allowing the car to slow down substantially enough for the impact to be less severe than what Dan Lloyd had. Plus the bumpy undulating nature of the grass run off acts as a launch pad, thus struggling to reduce the speed effectively.

Whilst I'm in no position to dictate what needs to be done, they're (BARC) are in a bit of a pickle. As a large gravel trap at Church wouldn't help, as at speed of 140mph+ the car would more than likely dig in and roll, and the bumpy nature of the run off doesn't help. Personally I think the run off area would need to be leveled out, then discussion of implementing some kind of barrier can commence. Something like an armco barrier with a vast tyre wall, or even something like a Tech-Pro barrier. But hey-ho, I certainly no expert, that's just my two-cents on the idea.

However, as mentioned, I don't think Thruxton's managing director Bill Coombs, or even the BARC have such an endless supply of cash to carry out such changes. And with Thruxton being such a high speed track, any potential changes obviously have to be analysed carefully.
 
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Furinkazen
Motorsport is dangerous.
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True, but that doesn't mean that event organisers should encourage it by persisting with a circuit that is clearly dangerous. The fastest sections of Thruxton have little to no run-off, and the circuit has seen a series of major accidents in recent years.

Michelin Man
Personally I think the run off area would need to be leveled out, then discussion of implementing some kind of barrier can commence. Something like an armco barrier with a vast tyre wall, or even something like a Tech-Pro barrier.
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The problem is that there is no space for it. There's a public road running right behind the circuit, and then a kindergarten.
 
The Kindergarten is most likely closed on race days, so that won't be an issue. :banghead: :lol:

I wouldn't want to see the circuit layout changed either, but the run off and barrier situation could certainly be improved. I'm no expert in this area, but I'm sure that there's a good solution to the problem out there and the experts can give the answer. It won't make it totally safe, but no circuit is 100% safe.
 
prisonermonkeys
True, but that doesn't mean that event organisers should encourage it by persisting with a circuit that is clearly dangerous. The fastest sections of Thruxton have little to no run-off, and the circuit has seen a series of major accidents in recent years.


The problem is that there is no space for it. There's a public road running right behind the circuit, and then a kindergarten.
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"Series of accidents"

1999 or 2000 - Yvan Muller (Vauxhall).
2014 - Foster (BMW), Belcher and Ollie Jackson - Belcher only rolled because barriers were already damaged from earlier, Ollie has same issue.
2017 - Lloyd - track not finished with work, MSA regulations on the area. Car would have gained speed downwards into a ditch.

Bit difficult to reconfigure a track when there's a flipping river next to it.
 
prisonermonkeys
The problem is that there is no space for it. There's a public road running right behind the circuit, and then a kindergarten.
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Yea that's the issue. It's finding that happy medium, between the right size (and material to be fair) for the run off, and then where, a barrier should be placed, and to what extent. Due to the high speed nature of Thruxton, and the size and the accidents when a car does go off, a change can just be made willy-nilly, it obviously has to be made with a fair degree of calculation and certainty.

And no doubt the factors you've mentioned are just some of them.
 
But it's not as simple as building a new run-off area because there is no space. The only way to make the circuit safer is to slow the cars down. The only way to do that is to reconfigure the layout. I'm a little disturbed that some people are so aghast at the thought about making changes in the name of safety because it might ruin the character of the circuit.
 
prisonermonkeys
The only way to make the circuit safer is to slow the cars down.
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So changing the cars, okay... they aren't the quickest.

prisonermonkeys
The only way to do that is to reconfigure the layout.
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Oh wait, not changing the cars... Looks like you don't know yourself.

prisonermonkeys
I'm a little disturbed that some people are so aghast at the thought about making changes in the name of safety because it might ruin the character of the circuit.
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I don't think anyone has said that.


On this bombshell and by your logic of wanting to slow down 225kph :

>Oval racing shouldn't exist (300+kph with concrete barriers either side), also way too slow!
>V8 Supercars are super lethal (270-300kph at places like Phillip Island and Bathurst, get the chicanes ready and slash those engine sizes
>F1 and LMP racing is for sure gone (Cars do 170mph through corners, at LM there's not too much run off in areas!)




Bottom line is, your "changes in the name of safety" are little more than killing nearly all motorsports outside of karting. From someone who's such a big rally fan, where you are doing 100kph on narrow roads with solid trees, ditches, rocks and stone walls usually within a couple metres of you it's an especially strange claim.
 
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