Understeer Rattle Effect (Poll-Only for Wheel Users)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by super_gt, Apr 1, 2018.

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What do you think about the understeer rattle effect ?

  1. I like this strong rattle effect and I do not want to be changed.

    17.6%
  2. I like this rattle effect but I want to be weakened.

    13.3%
  3. I do not like this rattle effect and I want to be completely removed.

    15.2%
  4. I have no opinion.

    8.1%
  5. I would like to have an option to adjust the strength of this effect or turn it off.

    45.7%
  1. MikeV27

    MikeV27

    Messages:
    1,267
    Location:
    Canada
    I use a G29, I don't really feel a rattle in GTS. I feel it in other games like F1 2017 though, and I don't like it at all. Only because I'm paranoid about my wheel getting damaged from it.

    Something like this should be adjustable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  2. Nando deBem

    Nando deBem

    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    Canada
    I kind of like it. It’s what I feel when karting. The only problem is I like my wheel smooth, so I use my CSL on 2/2 or 2/3 in-game. This means the rattle is so much stronger than everything else that it makes me no able to feel anything else. And... it’s loud. Really loud!
     
  3. John G

    John G

    Messages:
    185
    It's supposed to be the real driving simulator. Well in real life, when you go beyond the limit of front grip, the wheel just goes light. It doesn't rumble.

    Therefore its a canned effect, and one therefore that you should be able to bin if you don't want it.

    It doesn't offend me too much, it serves a purpose. But GTS is miles behind assetto corsa for steering feel and feedback.
     
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  4. PocketZeven

    PocketZeven

    Messages:
    3,902
    My conclusion is this only really became an issue on this forum when csl elite owners got native support. Logitech support had worked differently and that what the csl was simulating. I can not judge how pronounced the effect is now for csl owners, but for Thrustmaster owners it has been in there from the beginning and what PD intended. Maybe it has to be fine tuned though?
     
  5. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,102
    Location:
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    Not really, a good number of members have complained about this from day one, across a range of different wheels.

    I can say that for Thrustmaster wheels its actually come and gone across different updates, as such I'm not entirely sure that PD know what they want to do with regard to it.

    All I can say is that its not realistic effect, and as such while I understand that some people might like it, an option to remove it at the very least should be provided (not that I will hold my breath for that).
     
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  6. Litchi

    Litchi

    Messages:
    5,085
    Location:
    France
    Voted, using CSL Elite :tup:
     
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  7. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    The more powerful and faster the steering wheel becomes, the more this option becomes needed.Imagine the rattle with the new Fanatec direct drive wheel with 15 or 20Nm torque,it will tear off people's hands.:crazy:
     
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  8. super_gt

    super_gt

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    3,762
    Location:
    Bulgaria
     
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  9. Ph1sh

    Ph1sh Premium

    Messages:
    5,515
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    United States
    I have a CSL Elite, it can be nice in certain cars but other cars are bad. As sometimes you need a little understeer in the corners. But I voted to reduce the vibration. Like I said it can be nice as it forces you to take the corners smooth.

    I'm sure they will fix it or adjust it soon. Just a matter of when. :tup:
     
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  10. rikcougar

    rikcougar

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Fanatec user

    Avoiding it has made me faster around a complete lap so please leave it as it is!
     
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  11. fastone371

    fastone371

    Messages:
    1,632
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    United States
    Fanatec user, voted. I have my in game FFB and Sen at 2/2, defaults to 7/2 for some reason, but 7 is wwaaaaayyyyyyy too high for the in game FFB for me, I make the rest of the settings on my wheel. I could live with the under steer hammering if I could adjust the strength of it independently, comparatively I think it is too strong.
     
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  12. user3392345

    user3392345 (Banned)

    Messages:
    529
    Looks like tm & fanatec user have a diffrent default ff strenght ingame? 5/5 is default here on a TM wheel and 5 strenght feels weak like pudding here, min 7-8 for usable forces. Downloading the patch atm, hope now things will work better.
    Its funny that Thomas from Fanatec needed to say that this oversteering rattle thing is not a bug- its a g-ts feature LOL:)
     
  13. PzR Slim

    PzR Slim Premium

    Messages:
    6,210
    Location:
    England
    The steering going light when a car understeers is exactly what should happen. Kunos have nailed it. This rattle is just so completely unrealistic that it needs to be removed.
     
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  14. Haitauer

    Haitauer

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Finland
    This rattle was terrible in g29 during gts beta - I mean braking the wheel -terrible.

    Att the moment i havent noticed this problem, but then again - theres not much of a ffb in g29@gts at the moment. :indiff:
     
  15. andyparks

    andyparks

    Messages:
    295
    This rattle your on about is for the rumble thing on the back of the tgt and for some reason been put on to the t300 that's why I have mine set in ps3 mode.
     
  16. Nando deBem

    Nando deBem

    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    Canada
    I have to say, it feels like this when I go karting. It shakes as it looses and gains grip because the wheel is sideways. And it helped me being a little bit faster. Don’t let it shake. Turn the wheel until it starts to vibrate. That’s the limit. More than that, you’re losing speed, so you’re losing time.
     
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  17. Knukel

    Knukel

    Messages:
    408
    It's nearly impossible to avoid it while trying to do competitive lap with any natyrally understeering road car on street tyres... And GT Sport if any, require driving over the tyre limit.
    I'd rather have sound information or flashing text in the middle of tv screen indicating understeer. :)
     
  18. Nando deBem

    Nando deBem

    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    Canada
    I can’t say about road cars, I don’t use them very much. In Gr.3, 1 and RedBulls, that’s what I used after the update, it feels really good! I’d like it be smoother, weaker, but it really made me find the “grip limit”.
     
  19. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,102
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Can't say I've ever experienced it in a road or track car in twenty years of driving on tracks an proving grounds.

    Yes you will get changes in the steering resistance as you start to approach the limit of the tyre, but as its starts to slip you loose Self Aligning Torque and that certainly doesn't result in a rattle through the steering of this nature, nor could it as once the contact patch deformation has 'released' and is return to normal it simply can't go back and forth.

    SAT vs Slip.jpg

    In the above curve you will get changes in the steering weight and load at the apex of the curve, but once you are past that you are simply managing the rate at which the contact patch deformation returns to normal, and once that starts you can slow it, but without either a lift or an unwinding of the steering (or both) its not stopping.

    Now massive tearing from the tyre being dragged across the surface against the axis of rotation will cause shaking in the steering or via the chassis into the steering (and the later of these is more likely - as its more common for the rear to do this), that however it well beyond the point at which a reduction in self aligning torque will have occurred.
     
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  20. Nando deBem

    Nando deBem

    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe it shouldn’t shake. Maybe it’s exaggerated, as I said I think it should be weaker. If it were weaker, the feeling would be only a slight change of resistance. But I feel the resistance changing up until it sarts to shake. I guess they’re gonna improve that, but I think they’re in the right direction.
     
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  21. BuckFly

    BuckFly

    Messages:
    349

    Supe, you're the best, man. Really.
     
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  22. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,762
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Thank you my friend!:)
     
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  23. RaceFace85

    RaceFace85

    Messages:
    289
    Location:
    Germany
    My real car also rattles very strong when I get understeer.

    The transmission of my old car suddenly died caused by the rattle.
    I started with wheelspin and drove through a corner and the rear was jumping.

    So I think that the strong rattle effect in GT Sport is just perfect.

    I only recognized that the steering goes light when I had understeering on snow, wet tarmac or gravel but I never experienced the effect on dry tarmac.
     
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  24. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

    Messages:
    23,102
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    See my post above in regard to tyre sheer and rip, what you feeling isn't understeer, it the tyre being ripped as its dragged across the surface and occurs after all grip has been lost. Not as GTS has it, as you start to reduce self aligning torque.
     
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  25. cleanLX

    cleanLX

    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    United States
    I would take a serious look at bushings, bearings, ball joints, bolted connections of moving parts... etc.
    This is not an effect of rubber loosing grip with surface, it is an un-dampened oscillation within the mechanical structure of your vehicle.

    Edit to add;
    It is a pretty common phenomenon in motorsports, and is almost always down to bushing flex allowing "hard bits" to oscillate... which is why performance vehicles will run hard durometer rubber or harder poly bushings and racing equipment runs spherical bushings or rod-ends.
    Sometimes it's down to "hard-bits" flexing and is why the aftermarket is flooded with lighter/stronger A arms, drag links, tie rods, control arms, lateral links, etc. etc... which almost always include harder bushings or mechanical (spherical/rod-end) joints.

    And...
    If I'm not mistaken (@Nando deBem), competition carts do not run suspension, and rather rely on chassis flex (which is un-dampened), and would result in the shaking wheel upon under-steer/over-steer... especially so on a cart with a long competition history and fatigued chassis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  26. Nando deBem

    Nando deBem

    Messages:
    788
    Location:
    Canada
    My kart was someone else’s competition kart. I didn’t have the money to compete. I bought it really old and refurbished it. No suspension and really low. You’d feel your butt jumping and your hand shaking when sliding.
     
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  27. cleanLX

    cleanLX

    Messages:
    867
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks.
    Makes sense.
    Never got to run a comp. cart... envious. :).
     
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  28. Clean Racer

    Clean Racer

    Messages:
    993
    I don't like the effect but don't necessarily think it should be removed. Others may like it.

    T300 RS set to PS3 mode specifically to avoid the understeer rumble.

    My in game settings:
    Max torque = 3, FFB sensitivity =10

    T3PA Pro pedals (modded)
    Awaiting delivery of TH8A shifter
    GT Omega chassis

    I would like the option to shut that understeer rumble feature off so I could use my wheel in PS4 mode. As intended.
     
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  29. Leggacy

    Leggacy

    Messages:
    482
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    A launch the T500 was like this, it got patched pretty soon. The rattle is still present sometimes but very it’s mild.
    Recently, I can’t remember which patch it was, T500s stoped working, it also made T300’s not work in PS3 mode. There were quite a lot of people saying that they didn’t like using their T300’s in PS4 mode because of the rattle.
     
  30. andyparks

    andyparks

    Messages:
    295
    The rumble you feel has come from the tgt wheel and for but kicker thing on the back of the wheel
     

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