Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

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In my humble opinion, there will come v2.11 through v2.20 before we reach the end of the road with GT5 in favor of GT6. I'm guessing 2+ years. So I'm not getting too bent out of shape about 2.10. I regard it as a gift horse that should be analyzed and taken advantage of by the player.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
XDesperado67
@Polsixe can I politely suggest you try some of the cars that saw much more drastic reductions in PP than either the M5 or DB9. Until you have tested some of the cars that have seen their PP changed by 50+ points I don't see how you can say V2.10 is good at any given level.

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Ok, tried the Corvette z06 (C5) 'o4 tuned a little up to 485pp, not great but with some suspension work would give the M5 a run. The Dodge SRT 08 on the other hand was superb at 485 pp, beats the M5 and RUF and felt tight, easy to drive. With more HP and weight changes this car would be a 500pp beast.

Doesn't mean PP is broken, with 1100 cars some have advantages, like the 2J always had.
 
@Polsixe thanks for just proving my point.:lol:

My opinion is that the only reason to have PP in the game is to give players a gauge of how competitive cars are. With that in mind I expect any car rated at 500PP to be able to produce lap times very close to any other car rated at 500PP. If certain cars are much faster at a given PP than the majority of others than the PP system has failed for me. Pre V2.10 there was a fairly small group of cars that were a bit faster at various PP than others but even they weren't outrageously so. Now we have cars that are so much faster at a given PP that it is ridiculous. That means for me the PP system is broken now.

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to at least test a couple more cars even if it didn't change your mind.👍👍:cheers:
 
That pretty much sums it up Des. 👍 I respect those who have took the time to rebuild and test cars, but I just haven't the heart to start back in the lobbies again knowing that unless class/drivetrain restricted, which is not happening, there are gonna be races that will be plain unfair. I patiently await PD's detailed explanation for this update. We already know they're not good at being punctual.
 
Steph290
That pretty much sums it up Des. 👍 I respect those who have took the time to rebuild and test cars, but I just haven't the heart to start back in the lobbies again knowing that unless class/drivetrain restricted, which is not happening, there are gonna be races that will be plain unfair. I patiently await PD's detailed explanation for this update. We already know they're not good at being punctual.
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Has PD ever put out any detailed explainations of anything?:sly::crazy:
 
Steph290
That pretty much sums it up Des. 👍 I respect those who have took the time to rebuild and test cars, but I just haven't the heart to start back in the lobbies again knowing that unless class/drivetrain restricted, which is not happening, there are gonna be races that will be plain unfair. I patiently await PD's detailed explanation for this update. We already know they're not good at being punctual.
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I am restricting FR cars and Ruf 3400s's from my lobbies for the most part. Last night (Sunday) I did lift the ban for two races. Tonight I kept the ban in place the whole time.

The room has stayed full and happy (kind of rare for a Sunday and Monday night).

Seems there are a lot of racers that don't like the change.
 
all i have to say is race a 4wd car vs a ff car vs a mr car vs a fr car. you will see the massive gap in between them. Before update nsx ran 1.18.1 on ss tires around deep forest reverse Integra r did 1.18.9 evo 9 did a 1.18.5 .. The 370z ran a 1.18.3. As you can see all Those cars had somewhat close time after update all those cars kept there laptimes except the 370z. i can do 1.16.9s with ss tires around the same track thats almost 2 seconds quicker than before. PP system was flowed before but this is just disgusting how fr cars can get such a major jump
 
You shouldn't take the NSX or an Elise as typicall MR-cars. At 550PP the NSX beats all the MR-Ferraris too, despite it doesn't even reach 550 PP. MR wasn't broken before, it was certain individual cars.
 
XDesperado67
My opinion is that the only reason to have PP in the game is to give players a gauge of how competitive cars are. With that in mind I expect any car rated at 500PP to be able to produce lap times very close to any other car rated at 500PP. If certain cars are much faster at a given PP than the majority of others than the PP system has failed for me.
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I have to say that an equal number of PP doesn't automatically have to lead to being able to perform similar laptimes around a certain track.
Some cars are much more suited for a specific track than others despite having the same or similar amount of PP, PP to me is only an indication when used for similar types of cars.

If I use a 500PP Caterham against a 500PP supercar on RouteX it isn't the PP system I'll blame for causing me to lose obviously.
The PP system inherently can't take into account the track you're going to use that car on, so you have to use your brain as well (that doesn't explain for example a fully tuned Beetle having more than 500PP though since you can't compete with any other 500PP car on any track under normal circumstances whilst you could beat a 500PP supercar with a 500PP Caterham on certain tracks).

But instead of fixing these obvious issues (the Beetle is just one example), they've changed something nobody asked for, for no apparant reason (extending variety? thought that's what DLC was for, not shaking up the numbers).
 
analog
Some cars are much more suited for a specific track than others despite having the same or similar amount of PP, PP to me is only an indication when used for similar types of cars.

The PP system inherently can't take into account the track you're going to use that car on, so you have to use your brain as well (that doesn't explain for example a fully tuned Beetle having more than 500PP though since you can't compete with any other 500PP car on any track under normal circumstances whilst you could beat a 500PP supercar with a 500PP Caterham on certain tracks).
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Very important info in your post in bold.
 
Z1-AV69
You shouldn't take the NSX or an Elise as typicall MR-cars. At 550PP the NSX beats all the MR-Ferraris too, despite it doesn't even reach 550 PP. MR wasn't broken before, it was certain individual cars.
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You're actually proving his point. The Elise and NSX were the best of the best, and they are getting destroyed by some good, and some run of the mill FR's now.
 
analog
I have to say that an equal number of PP doesn't automatically have to lead to being able to perform similar laptimes around a certain track.
Some cars are much more suited for a specific track than others despite having the same or similar amount of PP, PP to me is only an indication when used for similar types of cars.

If I use a 500PP Caterham against a 500PP supercar on RouteX it isn't the PP system I'll blame for causing me to lose obviously.
The PP system inherently can't take into account the track you're going to use that car on, so you have to use your brain as well.
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Perfect!
 
I want to give my opinion on this matter (might be a bit long):

Some friends and I, run street cars at 450PP with sport tires with FF, FR, 4WD, MR and RR enabled. 3 of my favorite cars are the MR2 '97 and the 190E 2.5 '91 and the AE86. We used to have such great races because we pick cars that are from the year 2000 or older to avoid M3, Elises, NSX, RX-8, 86 GT and all the "noob" cars or "god" cars that people tend to pick when they need a win. We race to have great battles and have fun.

With patch 2.10 we no longer can open a public lobby with the old settings. Now, we can only do FF + 4WD or FR only or MR only. Why? Because since my 450PP 190E is now 393PP I can simply add parts to make it 450PP again and win every single race even if I'm not trying. PD messed up big time. My MR2 did not change at all. When compared the 2 cars after the patch at 450PP the 190E is 2-3 seconds faster when before they were fairly even.

It's true, a car is not suited for all tracks. A 190E might do really good at Monza, Suzuka and GP/F but at Madrid, Monaco and London it will not since those tracks have many corners with few straights. Best thing you can do is set up the car and drive/race the best you can. Granted, some people say the patch 2.10 is great because you can now beat an NSX with a CL 600 on circuits you could only dream before.

The change has helped big time for higher PP ranges, I would say 500PP and above. For people who race with lower PP (450PP and lower) the game is broken now. We tried a "normal" race at Laguna Seca at 450PP. While many were using EG's, EK's, 22b, Evo's and such, one of my friends picked the SILEIGHTY (that had it's PP reduced by 50PP) and when the race started he didn't move the car until 20 seconds after everyone had started. He passed all of us in no time and crossed the finish line with 18 seconds to spare in 5 laps!!

Since his car dropped 50PP all he did was to add parts to make it again 450PP but in reality it was a 500PP under 2.09. Now, while everyone that likes to race with 550PP+ sees variety of cars, we on the other end see fewer cars because FR's are just too powerful vs FF's and 4WD's.

Instead of reducing the old cars PP they should have increased the "god" cars such as NSX, M3 and Elises so that way people would have to lower their PP even more making the races more even.

2.09 was fine, PD just needed to nerf the newbie cars, not the ones we actually have to spend a lot of time tuning so it doesn't oversteer at every corner. Or at least ask an admin to make a poll to see if people like or dislike the new PP system.
 
ketiux
2.09 was fine, PD just needed to nerf the newbie cars, not the ones we actually have to spend a lot of time tuning so it doesn't oversteer at every corner. Or at least ask an admin to make a poll to see if people like or dislike the new PP system.
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I second that. People tend to hate change and any major change will get negative response, but in this case the change is far too detrimental.
 
Do what you did before but make it singlemaker race instead since all used the same cars anyway. New players will have no problems with this change.
 
Mulan
Do what you did before but make it singlemaker race instead since all used the same cars anyway. New players will have no problems with this change.
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How would it be what you were doing before when you have to change it to single-make races (unless you only did single-make races before)?
And obviously new players won't have issues since they'll think this is how it's supposed to be.
 
Just checked something, the Chevrolet Corvette C5-R (C5) '00 had a 30pp drop (something like this) , while the Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car #51 '00, that has the same speed and handling because it is from the same class, has way more pp.
 
DarkAvengerZR1
Viper was better than the C5-R. Just saying. :lol:

Edit: This comes from a Corvette fan, mind you...
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I actually get better car control from the corvette. Iam a Viper fanboy so :lol: But really neck to neck they are almost the same. The pp difference before the update was more realistic.
 
Viper was better at corners... Corvette was a bit better in straights, but yet, not enough to beat a Viper around Nurburgring.
 
I don't get how people keep assuming that the ones who have issue with it only used crap like the NSX-R and Evora. I used cars that I liked driving, very rarely were any of them the heavy hitters (I think the only one I ever touched that could be considered such was the 190), and this update still hits me pretty hard because some of them are even harder to win races in now.
 
Well, this update increased the number of the cars that could win... but it restricted the drivetrain, once FR's are now kings. Try get a FF in a 400pp race and see your car get murdered by a Supra SZ-R, or a 300hp Chaser.
 
I unbanned FR cars for a little while last night at 425pp. A lot of the people in my room didn’t quite understand the significance of the ban in the first place and picked FF or MR cars.
In the first race I drove a ruf 3400s (also banned in my room). I started last in a field of about 11 other drivers at Deep Forest. I moved to the right and took the outside lane through turn one. I passed 3/4s of the field and came out of turn one in third place. I did the same exact thing in the next race driving the Prowler.
I looked at the map during the race and there were two distinct groups of cars. It was almost like two classes of cars were sharing the track. By the end of the short (3 lap) races some of the cars in the trailing group didn’t even finish.

I sure hope they don’t carry these changes over to GT6.

I will continue to keep FR cars and the Ruf3400s banned from my room.
 
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One need only follow the current FITT Nurb Shootout to see just how dominant FR's have become. Fastest 450PP time on SH tires pre-2.10 was a Lotus Elise around the 7:45 mark. There are cars entered in the Shootout under 7:30 and I suspect in the right hands maybe a 7:25 or two in there as well. That's pretty dramatic. Even if you cut the lap into 5 equal pieces to equal a TM lap for example, you're talking 4 seconds a lap at Trial Mountain.
 
DarkAvengerZR1
Well, this update increased the number of the cars that could win... but it restricted the drivetrain, once FR's are now kings. Try get a FF in a 400pp race and see your car get murdered by a Supra SZ-R, or a 300hp Chaser.
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I hear you there. Where some cars seemed to give a handicap effect before, now we have undeniable cheat cars for those who know how to tune and drive. My pride as a fair driver keeps me from joining FR rooms now, so I hang out with clean drivers in one-drivetrain lobbies. Some of us are doing 4wd tuning/racing this month @ 500pp, pulling cars such as the TTCoupe'07, EvoX, R32s, and Celica GT4s and getting lap times equal to that of the well balanced GTRs and Imprezas. Tuning a car's handling and power curve for clean, close racing with difficult cars was and is so much more challenging and rewarding than how 2.10 just gives away pp to aid.
 

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