Update 2.10 - Major PP changes

  • Thread starter crazy206
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Going fast in a straight line all fine and good though the trouble is still the runaway cars that people are speaking of, some of the cars where runaway car before and are even more so now. When I look at these cars and see how fast they run away I think to myself “Bloody hell LOL the system is broken...
Wait, he's finally got it! :bowdown:
...broken in a way...
Huh? :odd: Wait...no Zuel, don't run from the truth. :nervous:
...but not that bad”
Nooooo! :banghead: And you were so close too :ouch:
 
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A little more evidence that the V2.10 update broke the PP calculation model:

V2.09 Laguna Seca 200mile Leaderboard:

Sport Soft Tire Leaderboard- Ranked by PPV
362PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
373PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
384PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
390PP - BMW 2002 Turbo ’73 - axletramp
395PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
399PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini


V2.10 Laguna Seca 200 mile Leaderboard:Link: LS200miles

Sport Soft Tire Leaderboard- Ranked by PPV
332PP - Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89 - von Stiefel•
347PP - Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89 - von Stiefel•
354PP - Mazda RX-7 GT-X (FC) '90 - axletramp•
362PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
373PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
384PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
390PP - BMW 2002 Turbo ’73 - axletramp
395PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
399PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini

Notice that prior to the V2.10 update, the best car was the mid-engine Lotus Elise 111S. A car that we might expect to be able to win a 200 mile race with the lowest PP value as compared to other cars. Ideally, if the game's PP value calculation worked properly, other cars could win the 200 mile race, but their PP value would need to be slightly higher (but not too much higher).

After the update, the best car is now a 1989 Mazda Miata Roadster, and its PP value is a full 30 points lower than the Lotus Elise. It seems to me that the V2.10 has given a PP advantage to an assortment of FR cars that was un-warranted.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Great now I can’t do all that work now. Good thing the math work trying to break down the pp system took me a month. The chart doesn’t need to be changed.
 
Great now I can’t do all that work now. Good thing the math work trying to break down the pp system took me a month. The chart doesn’t need to be changed.

I stopped tuning completely, other than for me and my guys in DeadNuts, after the 2.10 update. I was fairly certain they'd see the error of their ways and either really fix it properly or take the easy way out and switch it back.
 
I stopped tuning completely, other than for me and my guys in DeadNuts, after the 2.10 update. I was fairly certain they'd see the error of their ways and either really fix it properly or take the easy way out and switch it back.
I think most of the experienced guys and gt vets did the same, including myself. A team who's goal is for realism couldn't allow a mistake that big to go unresolved. Hope we don't hear a cry from the kids to revert back to 2.10 now :lol:
 
I think most of the experienced guys and gt vets did the same, including myself. A team who's goal is for realism couldn't allow a mistake that big to go unresolved. Hope we don't hear a cry from the kids to revert back to 2.10 now :lol:
I think some minor changes could be done, but nothing as dramatic as they did. I would prefer they don't try wreaking it at all,. It messes up my data collection.
 
It's still far from perfect but 2.09 is certainly the lesser of two evils and it this late stage in the game they need to stop messing with it in this game and focus on getting it right on the next game with proper internal testing.
 
SimonK
It's still far from perfect but 2.09 is certainly the lesser of two evils and it this late stage in the game they need to stop messing with it in this game and focus on getting it right on the next game with proper internal testing.

I agree, but saying that they probably learnt more in 24 hours of global "testing" than they would have done with 6 months of internal testing.
I would actually rather they released 10 different systems for gt5 which work badly if it means the one we find in gt6 1.0 is better than any of the rubbish we have been given so far.
 
Well the trouble is it still isn't working correctly (it was never 'broken') but what we've gone back to is better than the changes made in 2.10.

A shame they didn't do some testing themselves so the pp changes they came up with actually made some sense.Next time Kaz is interviewed can we please ask him why it was done so badly.

You know, if PD had asked for help from the community they could have had all their testing and fine tuning done for free without the big reaction.

For example a message with the update along the lines of

"We are attempting to rebalance pp levels. This is a first cut (well not exacty first) but we are working on it. Improvements will be made based on user testing so please bare with us.". Then get a few users to do some serious testing that they feed back into PD.

I'm sure many GTLifers/obsessives would give their time for free to get things balanced.
 
For example a message with the update along the lines of

"We are attempting to rebalance pp levels. This is a first cut (well not exacty first) but we are working on it. Improvements will be made based on user testing so please bare with us.". Then get a few users to do some serious testing that they feed back into PD.

I'm sure many GTLifers/obsessives would give their time for free to get things balanced.

Surely all they'd need to do is have the lobbies communicate back to PD about what cars were picked the most, how many times those cars won and at what PP range. Then PD have at least a starting point to start fixing from... I could be wrong but I dont see that being too hard to achieve. The PS3's are already communicating enough with PD servers while we play GT5 as it is... A little bit more to communicate to them about wouldnt be much...
 
Great now I can’t do all that work now. Good thing the math work trying to break down the pp system took me a month. The chart doesn’t need to be changed.

Your chart doesn't need to be changed? So...it works independent from the actual PP system?
That's what I thought all along.
 
Your chart doesn't need to be changed? So...it works independent from the actual PP system?
That's what I thought all along.

If you proply tune the motor and remove weight from you car's it will fall in line with the chart, it works along with the 2.09 pp system. So if you tune your car out of class meaning STAGE 3 motor then detuning the car to fit in class then the chart will not work for you. You thought wrong.

The chart only works for the people that proply tune thier cars, not maxing out the cars then detuning them to fit in class.

I'm in the middle of splitting the chart in five areas. 1. Tuned road car, 2. tuned road with aero, 3. Tuner, 4. Race cars. Again the chart showes the proper group pp number for cars that have been proply tuned, if your car has been overly tuned the chart will not follow your tuning method.

You will not find any runaway cars in any form only runaway drivers like it should be.
 
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Surely all they'd need to do is have the lobbies communicate back to PD about what cars were picked the most, how many times those cars won and at what PP range. Then PD have at least a starting point to start fixing from... I could be wrong but I dont see that being too hard to achieve. The PS3's are already communicating enough with PD servers while we play GT5 as it is... A little bit more to communicate to them about wouldnt be much...

It wouldn't seem to be too much more complicated than that to at least figure out which cars are overly dominant and which are woefully inadequate, but one never knows. Trying to learn why some cars under or over perform can be a bit more complex. Then again, it shouldn't have taken too much observation and intelligence to come to the conclusion that a number of cars could have used a 5-15pp adjustment rather than a 50-80pp one, so who knows how they are coming up with these things?

I guess for now they've decided that having 40% of the cars disadvantaged and 20% of them completely useless is better than having 80% of them completely useless. Tough to argue with that(completely guessed at) math. I suppose that if they've gone back to 2.09 though that means that cars like the Ford Falcon race car have gone back to being completely useless... too bad I never got around to driving it after it had been put at a more sensible PP, that was one that I had wanted to try since it was sooooooo bad before.
 
If you proply tune the motor and remove weight from you car's it will fall in line with the chart, it works along with the 2.09 pp system. So if you tune your car out of class meaning STAGE 3 motor then detuning the car to fit in class then the chart will not work for you. You thought wrong.

The chart only works for the people that proply tune thier cars, not maxing out the cars then detuning them to fit in class.

I'm in the middle of splitting the chart in five areas. 1. Tuned road car, 2. tuned road with aero, 3. Tuner, 4. Race cars. Again the chart showes the proper group pp number for cars that have been proply tuned, if your car has been overly tuned the chart will not follow your tuning method.

You will not find any runaway cars in any form only runaway drivers like it should be.

Can you explain in detail what your chart does? What calculations does it make? Is it available for others to use?

Does it take into account the use of stock cars? Because that's what I prefer to use.
 
Can you explain in detail what your chart does? What calculations does it make? Is it available for others to use?

Does it take into account the use of stock cars? Because that's what I prefer to use.


YES the revised chart does take in account stock cars as well as them having oil changes along with being broken in while stock, though you may notice that some cars will be 1 number within or out of a group while stock due to that car has aerodynamics parts that move at a pacific speed that will change the pp from stock. It also shows the group numbers as the cars are modified. As long the has been stepped tuned and running at 100% power no matter what part you have on your car it will fall into a group. If a car is de-tuned below 95% to 85% of its power and is entered in a locked group number you will get uneven performance between the cars with in that group class.

Below is the new chart along with a download link for a PDF file.
GT5PerformancePointsChart20_zps24ccc2bd.png


View attachment Gran Turismo Performance Points System Grouping Chart. - Sheet1 (1).zip

I'm in the middle of adjusting the chart to take in account for adding aerodynamics or a wing. Formulating a chart for tuners and race cars will follow soon.
 
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