W.M.A. International Touring Car Championship-Season Wrap-Up!

[cnd01]

Im gonna stick up for us RWD guys. Its more work for us to keep up with you guys in the straights. You guys can close the gap way faster than we can. Feels like any advantage we may have in the corners is totally negated coming out of the corners into the straights.

I'm not familiar with corner names on Tsukuba. But I want to give an example on the corner right before the back straight. I could be going in with a car, maybe a car and a half lead coming out. A FWD would eat me up halfway down that straight. If the roles were reversed it would take me 3/4 of that stretch to even think about making a pass. By then its better to duck back behind and play it safe.

Im not saying I want corner advantage and straight line advantage. I know both drivetrains have their own advantage. But I do feel the FWD advantage is just a little higher. Can we make them so its equal?

RWD took 2 of the 3 at GVE. They are more consistent due to better tire life. You might be necessarily slower, but you place better.

 

[FlyinHawaiian77]

I get that we have to be slower. No complaints from me. My question is do we need to be that much slower?

Outcomes of the races are not always determined by consistancy.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Guys, I don't think so. I think, that Grand Valley favoured RWD cars, whereas, earlier, before many/most of you joined, our tests at Cape Ring Inside showed a definite advantage for FWD and AWD, purely because the RWD cars skidded more. I'm indifferent to your sentiments, because I can't agree with either of you. The advantage that one car will get over another is about a tenth. That's how I tuned the cars. Now, better drivers can run incredible times. (1:06s at Grand Valley, 0:59s at Tsukuba, 0:53 at Cape Ring Inside...) and the RWD cars are not faster or slower, because the people driving make the biggest difference.


That's why I made the cars equal. Give me specs for your own cars, if they're not on the list, and I'll ensure that they're added; but, it's not really your job to respec other cars. If I respec cars, and they become less competitive, my inbox will be full in 2 minutes.

I mean, damu's RX-7 isn't the absolute fastest on softs, but, he's claiming to be faster on mediums. This doesn't mean that the RX-7 is slow, it just means that the RX-7 is a bit unique. I can't promise to give new specs, until I've seen the specs in a race.


In order to see the specs in a race, you need to worry about your own car, and PM me, if you think that you'd like to trade. For example, since Seth is so adamant about those 16 horses that his car doesn't run right now, he could easily ask to add 50 kg of ballast and then trade the 16 hp for the cornering advantage.


But, posting them on the forums here, just creates chaos, as everyone who's NOT driving that car begins to complain about their own car not being as fast. So, I won't announce new specs, until after I've discussed them with the people driving the cars, and you won't know about everyone else's specs until after the race.


If I find specs that are more competitive, I'll announce them. "Hey, so, at the last race, did anyone think that - car was too fast? No? Then, this car just had its specs improved, because it was on a better pace at the track we just visited."

The specs is my job. I will make sure everyone agrees with the specs of their cars after every race. If anyone says that their car's too slow, I'll review the evidence (lap times, cornering speeds etc.) and I'll work with the specs. If I see one car winning every race and every round, that car will also be respec'd. It's not about the cars. It's about the drivers.

 

[freshseth83]

Hahahah, so, that's why you had to pass me, by braking late, from 2nd, and then realized that you had lost the draft, and I won? And, Johnny followed me?

You went from 2nd, to the lead, and then to third, because of your dive bomb. I still won, either way. I wasn't the one who brought it up. However, you lost, at Monza, because you tried a pass, and it backfired. Sure, you made it through the corner clean, but, I held the outside line, got a good run, got draft, and helped Johnny, when he drafted off of both of us. 💡 You're mature enough to have a child, you're mature enough to play a video game 💡

Your top speed was above 240kmh, I was 228kmh without the draft. Come back with a better argument. Since I don't travel as fast in the straights I can brake later. I'll get a penalty if I enter the corner after someone. Not before them. Don't question someone's maturity or use examples of their personal life. That's pointless and off topic. I braked later than everyone because I was slower on the straights. How is it divebombing if I'm ahead? That made no sense. The last lap I was in front before the last straight. I got overtaken because of the draft. Not because I lost it.

 

[polarbear345]

Your top speed was above 240kmh, I was 228kmh without the draft. Come back with a better argument. Since I don't travel as fast in the straights I can brake later. I'll get a penalty if I enter the corner after someone. Not before them.

I think that as long as you don't hit someone, or shoot under them after they've started to turn, your fine. Seriously though, take a chill pill, its not like theres 49 other cars... And you've raced about half of them!

 

[freshseth83]

What is with people today? Is today a bad day for you guys or something? "Chill pill"? I haven't heard that in a long time. I'm not worked up over a forum. I have no reason to be. I sit in a dinning room chair with my ds3 and crappy flat screen. I use the same tunes on basically every car, no special gear trick or whatever, just do what I do. It's not polite to call someone out over a stupid online race that wasn't even for points. It's friendly competition that people are taking out of hand. I didn't cut anyone off, I didn't ram anyone in the grass. If anyone should chill out, it's the guys taking this so seriously. My objective is to have fun, no matter if I'm fastest or slowest.

 

[polarbear345]

What is with people today? Is today a bad day for you guys or something? "Chill pill"? I haven't heard that in a long time. I'm not worked up over a forum. I have no reason to be. I sit in a dinning room chair with my ds3 and crappy flat screen. I use the same tunes on basically every car, no special gear trick or whatever, just do what I do. It's not polite to call someone out over a stupid online race that wasn't even for points. It's friendly competition that people are taking out of hand. I didn't cut anyone off, I didn't ram anyone in the grass. If anyone should chill out, it's the guys taking this so seriously. My objective is to have fun, no matter if I'm fastest or slowest.

I'm bringin' back the classics man!

And it may just be me, but the way that comment came across made it sound like your pretty worked up...

And you and I had a bit of a go at it at GVE, nothing too bad, but I think we pissed each other off a bit. At least enough that you felt the need to pass me at turn 1-2.. Thanks dude, didn't push me off line and made me lose lots of time going off line in turn two.

I didn't b**ch, but I remembered it. My point is, your not immune from all these rules. You seem to be someone that when they aren't winning, it's not their fault, its in this case, the car's fault. You've been quick in the other 5-6 cars you've driven, why not just chose one of those and stop all the complaining? Pick a suitable car, and it seems like everyone's pretty much on the same page on the "not going wild" race rules. So we shouldn't have too much dirty driving happening. That being said, I'm not saying there won't be a crash or two, s**t happens.

Which brings me to my question of the week, which I'm surprised hasn't been brought up....


Are we doing cautions? If so, what will bring out a caution, and what will the procedure be?

 

[freshseth83]

You're still assuming things. You see someone on the inside and you know they're going to swing out wide, why try to pass them? More than likely they'll go out far enough you can cut back to their inside and retake your spot. It's common sense like this that I'm talking about. Instead of complaining that such and such put you off, let them make their move. Have a little give and take. People get such a run sometimes from the draft, they either move to the other side you are, or they just ram you. No one said that the rules didn't apply to me. But out braking someone is apart of racing. Some of you guys make it seem like you have to follow the leader. That's not racing. That's falling in line.

 

[polarbear345]

You're still assuming things. You see someone on the inside and you know they're going to swing out wide, why try to pass them? More than likely they'll go out far enough you can cut back to their inside and retake your spot. It's common sense like this that I'm talking about. Instead of complaining that such and such put you off, let them make their move. Have a little give and take. People get such a run sometimes from the draft, they either move to the other side you are, or they just ram you. No one said that the rules didn't apply to me. But out braking someone is apart of racing. Some of you guys make it seem like you have to follow the leader. That's not racing. That's falling in line.

Assuming what? We obviously aren't on the same page with each other...

 

[FlyinHawaiian77]

One step closer to making a new team announcement. . Car choice still not.final though. Our team is not funded very well, so there will be some races where we wont be there.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But out braking someone is apart of racing. Some of you guys make it seem like you have to follow the leader. That's not racing. That's falling in line.

I've run many series under GTPlanet Rules and there was always plenty of passing. What was missing in those races was lots of collisions, pit maneuvres, hard feelings and guys dropping out from the series. What you're advocating is being allowed to do the one thing that causes the vast majority of incidents in GT5 online, the late braking, divebombing, very last second move, flying up the inside when the guy in front of you is at maximum grip, hard on the brakes and turning, trying to move down to the apex. Along comes Joe Latebraker up the inside, contact results, usually it's the guy on the outside that suffers being forced off the race line and onto the marbles, and Joe Latebraker just slides on by as if nothing happened.

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure you're more than capable of doing it and doing it cleanly. So am I. But for every Seth that can late brake and hold an inside line while doing so, there are 5 Joe Divebombers, who overestimate their ability and the ability of their car, and turn a perfectly good race into a pinball game. The rules aren't just for you, they are for everyone, equally. I'm not allowed to late brake either. But I believe it makes a more enjoyable race for the entire field and all the different skill levels of the drivers involved.

 

[NizmoDr3]

I reckon that everyone must just be patient and uphold the rules. Keep your nose clean guys and the racing will be close and interesting. No need to point fingers publicly. That's why we got PM's.
Granted I haven't been testing with you guys lately, (consider time zones, work, family, etc.) but it sounds like people are over reacting.

I done some testing last night and I will stand up for the RWD guys and say that I do think the FF cars have a slight advantage. I was testing the Civic and Focus last night and they were running consistently better times than my 135i, while sacrificing tyre wear.
The power-to-weight ratio favours the FF guys.
So I was considering to request a power advantage on my car or a base weight of 1200kg. But I won't. Not just yet ...

I want to see how the rest of pre-season runs before I start questioning and complaining.(Thanks to certain people for the advice and vote of confidence)
I have chosen to go with a FR car due to RWD being in my nature. I prefer being pushed around a circuit not pulled ...
I am not going to change my car to a FF just because I lost out to CND on the straights with our test the othernight. FF cars do have the speed advantage, no denying, but I do think that this series is more about strategy than all out speed.

Well that's my 2 cents worth ... late or not


P.S. I still need a team mate ... Any FR fans???

 

[KingSakery]

Thanks for the paint-name
So can I join your Team ??
I tested her with 276bhp and 1150kg so adding 50kg won´t make here that much slower at Tsukuba or anywhere else.
1:00.3xx => 1:00.5 with more Ballast.

Try and put the weight to 49/50 weight distribution => better steering in ( at least for me)

Wanted to go online but didn´t so *arghh* I missed a session with you -_-

€dit: The Drivetrain isn´t that neccessary. All are fast and all can be good or bad with Tires. But the FWD´s have a natural front-tire-wear problem (because one axle has to do 2 jobs (steering and acceleration) and not 1 like RWD´s).
But due to them close specs even with Tire wear it´s hard to overtake.

Divebombing is a BS-move but outbraking is the clean-move.
D-B has always contact and the one who gets D-B´d is usualy in the run-off//Sand//Grass/Wall
=> be carefull with the D-B Terminus.

Driving Side-by-side and one stearing into one doesn´t mean he got D-B´d
=> in the race you can zoom into the Race-map so you can´t see the whole Track but you see the part of the Track bigger => you see better where the opponents are.
(Also can be doen in GT-mode --> Options somewhere in the first row)

^ This is not something to do with you it´s just a general comment.

 

[freshseth83]

Are you talking to me? I don't care if I'm not fast in a straight line. I rather the late braking and tire wear being good. I don't even have to outbrake anyone. I'll try to drive around them in the turns. I think 1120kg 260hp is fine for the GT86, if that's what you're testing.

 

[KingSakery]

I read that Mel put the specs to 256bhp//1200kg
=> You have to do the same with the RX8 !!

(I didn´t see a spec change for her => sorry if it has been done)

Well I think it´s now seriously underpowered. I´ll test them specs but....

@seth: The part of the weight etc yes (rest is general comment from me)

 

[freshseth83]

I haven't tested the RX8 yet. I know the RX7 is quick though. But it may be limited because it's speed.

 

[joetruckv8]

I think I can make this series, sign me up!
JoeTruckV8 | Audi S3

I just think so should change Cape Ring Inside for Cape Ring south' 👍

 

[FlyinHawaiian77]

Might have to make Div II soon. 👍

 

[Storm_SP17]

You're still assuming things. You see someone on the inside and you know they're going to swing out wide, why try to pass them? More than likely they'll go out far enough you can cut back to their inside and retake your spot. It's common sense like this that I'm talking about. Instead of complaining that such and such put you off, let them make their move. Have a little give and take. People get such a run sometimes from the draft, they either move to the other side you are, or they just ram you. No one said that the rules didn't apply to me. But out braking someone is apart of racing. Some of you guys make it seem like you have to follow the leader. That's not racing. That's falling in line.

Everyone seems to be assuming things when it comes to you. Just saying.

In any case, late braking in a sprint-type race is going to cause a whole lot of chaos, because there isn't that same time or space to play with to make a pass stick. Late-braking in any race is risky, especially if say the two cars in front are fighting it out. Two's a company, three's a crowd. If you late brake and join that fight, you're going to join that fight for position rather unexpectedly from both the other driver's point of view. Sensory overload? Likely. One person drawing the short straw? Likely. That's why there's a specific rule outlining to everyone when a pass is legit, and when it isn't. If someone late brakes someone's else and their front wheel is ahead of their rear; legit. If not, take it on the chin like everyone is expected to, and yield. Think of this passing rule as following a similar conept to the "No change of direction more than once to defend position" in Formula One. Now I wonder why they put that in, because, change of direction to defend is also a part of racing... Hmmm....

It's like with Race 3 at GVE, turn 2. Took the wide line all the way through to make sure I didn't get into anyone's little scuffle, some so and so dives through, nudges someone into me, and I greet the rail. I didn't expect the cars bunched up next to me to attempt a dive in such a short space at a time where we'd only just started the lap, but someone did, and I couldn't stop the domino effect. I didn't bitch about it on here, though, I just mentioned it, let the stewards take care of it and moved on.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I read that Mel put the specs to 256bhp//1200kg
=> You have to do the same with the RX8 !!

(I didn´t see a spec change for her => sorry if it has been done)

Well I think it´s now seriously underpowered. I´ll test them specs but....

@seth: The part of the weight etc yes (rest is general comment from me)

The RX-8 is already at 256/1200 and was at those specs already for GVE Reverse. I don't remember every car in the race but I do believe it had the lowest HP and highest weight of any car on Saturday's grid.

 

[anirishnirvana]

I think I can make this series, sign me up!
JoeTruckV8 | Audi S3

I just think so should change Cape Ring Inside for Cape Ring south' 👍

I think there's going to be a race course vote or something after this last preseason weekend. Who knows, we may end up at Cape Ring twice

The RX-8 is already at 256/1200 and was at those specs already for GVE Reverse. I don't remember every car in the race but I do believe it had the lowest HP and highest weight of any car on Saturday's grid.

Same stats as the RX-7. Maybe I should get an RX-7 team, if there's an RX-8 team, for a bit of inner manufacturer rivalry xD

P.S. I still need a team mate ... Any FR fans???

Which car you looking at? The RX-7 is FR

 

[NizmoDr3]

Which car you looking at? The RX-7 is FR

lol
I'm running the BMW-Jormo Racing team ... BMW 135i ...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Same stats as the RX-7. Maybe I should get an RX-7 team, if there's an RX-8 team, for a bit of inner manufacturer rivalry xD

RX-7 is 256/1150, 50 kgs. lighter.

 

[anirishnirvana]

lol
I'm running the BMW-Jormo Racing team ... BMW 135i ...

oh well, worth a cheeky attempt

RX-7 is 256/1150, 50 kgs. lighter.

really? i ran at 256/1200, as I was uncharacteristically fast with 50kg less during the Thursday practice.

 

[Johnnypenso]

really? i ran at 256/1200, as I was uncharacteristically fast with 50kg less during the Thursday practice.

That's what the regs say. There may be some discussion about it but I don't think it's changed. The RX-7's are kind of flying under the radar at the moment. The Premium RX7's at 256/1150 would be very competitive.💡

 

[cnd01]

Still looking for a teammate. Any American car pride out there. I am the only person running an American made car. Anyone else want to carry the American flag with me?

 

[anirishnirvana]

That's what the regs say. There may be some discussion about it but I don't think it's changed. The RX-7's are kind of flying under the radar at the moment. The Premium RX7's at 256/1150 would be very competitive.💡

I noticed on that Thursday that it was very competitive. However, the way I had gained on some people seemed unreal

In other news, I've got my first sub one minute. My new Toyota GT86 276/1200. Full weight reduction then shove the ballast at the back. Took maybe 10-15 laps?

Also tried it at 256/1200 and got 1:00.7, but then those were my first 5 laps.

Thus far the RX-7 I have managed to get at 1:00.3 with a new set up (46:54 weight distribution), but my new set up will take getting used to. Not sure what to make of this to be honest

 

[cnd01]

I noticed on that Thursday that it was very competitive. However, the way I had gained on some people seemed unreal

In other news, I've got my first sub one minute. My new Toyota GT86 276/1200. Full weight reduction then shove the ballast at the back. Took maybe 10-15 laps?

Also tried it at 256/1200 and got 1:00.7, but then those were my first 5 laps.

Thus far the RX-7 I have managed to get at 1:00.3 with a new set up (46:54 weight distribution), but my new set up will take getting used to. Not sure what to make of this to be honest

How is the rx-7 on tire wear?

 

[anirishnirvana]

How is the rx-7 on tire wear?

I reckon it now would take 8 laps for the front left tyre to reach half life. I just had to change style when seeing the front left was going quickly. So shove the weight back, a bit less front balance, a bit more rear etc etc.

Anyways, I changed to the recommended settings of 256/1150. 1:00.0 against 0:59.9 for the Toyota. I reckon if either the Toyota has more improvement room, but I didn't watch the tyre wear too much.

I will probably take the RX-8 for a spin later to see how it is at 256/1150. If I'm going to have a rivalry with them, I at least want it to be fair

 

[freshseth83]

IMO You ruin the balance of the Toyota by putting all the weight on the rear. @1200kg you change the balance by putting all the weight on the rear, I don't do that. 50/50 or 49/51 is how far I ever go. Tsukuba isn't my favorite track, but 1:00's are what I'm getting. GVE was 1:07.4, Monza was 2:01's.