W.M.A. International Touring Car Championship-Season Wrap-Up!

[anirishnirvana]

Not to come into anyones defense or anything ... but in the car list of the OP, the Evo family is rated 276/1100 and the Scoobies at 266/1100. I ran in my 276/1152 guise at Suzuka and I never killed anybody ...

Damu, my AWD ran last weekend already ... and so did Lancer7 in the Evo if I'm not mistaken ...

This weekend referred to Suzuka. Hence, we've lacked testing in 4WD cars throughout preseason. High 1:28's might have been expected after extensive testing, but 1:28.2 which is 1 sec quicker than the front runners. Questions will be asked, with good reason.

 

[RodeRuner1967]

Mr.M,
I did a quick race with freshseth lastnight so I could take a picture of my car for you to add to the front page with my team name. I seem to have forgot how to send it to u on the playstation.

 

[cnd01]

I was 66 kg over, I dropped 140kg between race 2 and 3, and I was still outpowered massively down the straights.

The 4WDs need to me more than massively outpowered down the straights because they have superior handling.

 

[NizmoDr3]

This weekend referred to Suzuka. Hence, we've lacked testing in 4WD cars throughout preseason. High 1:28's might have been expected after extensive testing, but 1:28.2 which is 1 sec quicker than the front runners. Questions will be asked, with good reason.

I do believe that in this case it is the driver and not the car. 1:28:2 might be very quick qhen you are alone on the track with no traffic, but what are times said driver will post in a full contact race?
I know for a fact that JP ran quick times in the S2K at Suzuka in testing, but he could not replicate those times in the race ...

But how do we know that this is not a false lap time just to cause controversy on the thread?
Dave and I tried to pull a fast one earlier ...

 

[LancerEvo7]

The 4WDs need to me more than massively outpowered down the straights because they have superior handling.

If we can't keep up with you down the straights, we can't make legal passes. In that case, the superior handling only helps in hot lapping. My pass for the win wasn't even legal, I only did it because A. Mel left a massive gap and I felt safe doing it. B. I knew there was no way in hell I could get him down the straight.

 

[cnd01]

If we can't keep up with you down the straights, we can't make legal passes. In that case, the superior handling only helps in hot lapping. My pass for the win wasn't even legal, I only did it because A. Mel left a massive gap and I felt safe doing it. B. I knew there was no way in hell I could get him down the straight.

But when you are a full second faster than the next best time at any track, slow down the straights or not is still a second faster. 4WD should get slightly better tire wear than FFs too.

 

[anirishnirvana]

Anyone got a replay of race 2 for Suzuka? I want to check a few things.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Guys, Lancer & Johnny, I don't even know if those lap times can be validated. I am very fast with AWD cars, yet I still only run lap times in the same bracket as the FF cars and the FR cars in 4WD cars.

Are you sure that the 1:28.2 isn't a typo? Otherwise, Johnny, I didn't give specs for the Evo VIII because I thought it would be a bit too heavy and such. But, I tried the Evo IX and it was like three seconds too slow at Autumn Ring, so I figured that the new Evos are all slower. Certainly, if that wasn't a typo, I'll have to investigate the VIII's specs.

 

[freshseth83]

I'm online now, so if anyone wants to practice come and join me.

 

[joetruckv8]

I'll join if you are still on?

 

[cnd01]

I will practice right now with my G27 I just got

 

[Johnnypenso]

The FFs have the biggest disadvantage. They get crappy tire wear compared to the RWD and 4WD. The FFs need to be faster and lighter to make up that difference.

I do believe that in this case it is the driver and not the car. 1:28:2 might be very quick qhen you are alone on the track with no traffic, but what are times said driver will post in a full contact race?
I know for a fact that JP ran quick times in the S2K at Suzuka in testing, but he could not replicate those times in the race ...

But how do we know that this is not a false lap time just to cause controversy on the thread?
Dave and I tried to pull a fast one earlier ...

I had an FF at Tsukuba, qualified on pole, two firsts and a second. I also had excellent tire wear, and probably could have pitted on lap 2 and still made it to the end with decent rubber. I believe I ended up pitting on lap 5 as it was. Tire wear is mostly in the tuning and the driving and the specs of the series would provide no disadvantage to me driving an FF compared to a RWD or 4WD car.

I had a RWD car at GVE Reverse that was 100 kgs heavy and down 20 hp, didn't make single drafting pass, and yet won 1 of the races and was within a couple of tenths of the lead in the other.

I tested and tuned a car for another driver at Suzuka and was up to 4 seconds faster per lap in that car in the rain and two seconds or so faster in the dry, same car, same tune.

And no the 1:28.2 is not a false lap time that's my real lap time.

Whatever you guys decide make it quick. Lancer is right in the mix as far as lap times go, it doesn't make sense to punish him with a weight/hp penalty that's really intended to make me slower but might also push him out of being competitive. If push comes to shove, he can run his Lancer and I'll go back to another car and run as an independent. I'd rather do that than Lancer be saddled with a weight/hp penalty that's really intended for me and might make him uncompetitive.

I probably won't have time to get on PS3 until Saturday, otherwise I'd drive the handful of cars in the series that I already tuned and run some lap times for comparison.

 

[FlyinHawaiian77]

People are forgetting about success ballast. Eventually things will equal out.

 

[joetruckv8]

I dont know about this 1'28's business, but I hit 1'30's easy with the racing softs, and 1'31's on the racing meds'
With more laps I'm sure I could hit 1'29 tho!

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yeah. Until I see Johnny pull it off in qualifying... I don't really believe him. I got a 1:29.2 in an Evo VIII, but not a 1:28.2. And, that's a full second faster than a driver who thinks that Circuito de Madrid's the second best track in the game. (Only the 24h Nürburgring is better.)

 

[freshseth83]

I used the wrong EVO tonight. I tried to replicate the 28's, but I only hit 30's with the EVO 9 (premium). Obviously you guys are using the EVO 8 which should be a standard car. That said, 4wd cars don't need more power and less weight than the RWD cars. A weight penalty should be given to them. And there's no reason for them to run 276hp. 1120kg and 260hp is fine for them, just like the GT86.

 

[NizmoDr3]

Success ballast anyone? ...

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Seth, quit complaining. One guy runs too fast in an AWD car, and you immediately assume they're all too fast? Meanwhile, people were actually complaining about the 86GT after Suzuka? Honestly, you worry about your own car please. I'm having a hard enough time with the points auto-update thing I'm trying to work out. I just don't think it'll be that easy.

 

[freshseth83]

Complaining? You call for equalization but turn a blind eye when a certain car clearly has a huge advantage. If you're going for the cars being equal, then make it so. There's no reason to say I'm complaining. I'm trying for fairness. I don't have to worry about my car, I know where it stands. And it's not just my car. I can use your car, Cnd's car, Johnny's car; anyone's car and be just as quick (which shows those cars are equal, not the EVO). Maybe YOU should worry about your series and it's reputation, because it won't be any fun with some 4wd monster running over a second faster per lap than anyone else.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Complaining? You call for equalization but turn a blind eye when a certain car clearly has a huge advantage. If you're going for the cars being equal, then make it so. There's no reason to say I'm complaining. I'm trying for fairness. I don't have to worry about my car, I know where it stands. And it's not just my car. I can use your car, Cnd's car, Johnny's car; anyone's car and be just as quick. Maybe YOU should worry about your series and it's reputation, because it won't be any fun with some 4wd monster running over a second faster per lap than anyone else.

But, someone else is in the exact same car, and runs a second slower. when I drive the car, I'm a second slower. What do you suppose I should do? Slow the car down, because one driver's a second faster than everyone else? I can't say "everyone with a slow teammate now gets a faster car" nor can I say "everyone with a fast teammate now gets a slower car."


Welcome to the world of racing: did Alonso call for Red Bull's car to be slowed down in 2011, while Alonso was kicking Webber's 🤬 and losing to Sebastian Vettel? No... That's the same thing that's going on now.



The Evo's not overly fast. Johnny's fast. Johnny picked the "ugly duckling" Mini Cooper and managed some podiums in it. Now that he's in a reasonably fast car, he's running quick laps. But, don't worry, because his car will weigh more, as you so desperately want, once the success ballast is put on his car.


The topic's not up for discussion, because I've yet to see anyone else running the Evo VIII and getting very fast lap times. Well, it's either that, or I have to specifically set regulations for the VII and VIII that are completely different, despite the fact that they're effectively the same car with different headlights.

 

[freshseth83]

You're a child about things, you know that?

But, don't worry, because his car will weigh more, as you so desperately want, once the success ballast is put on his car.

Where did I say I desperately want it to weigh more? Why are you letting 4wd cars weigh 1100kg and have 276hp when the RWD cars have to weigh more and run less power? I can run 1:28's if the GT86 was those specs too. Is that what you want? Not up for debate means you don't want to admit you got the specs wrong. That's what it looks like to me. It seems you can't admit you were wrong for letting that car in with those specs (any 4wd car with those specs actually) or you're just not very good in that car so you didn't think it'd be as fast as it now seems to be. I'm not arguing with you. I'm telling you how it is. When you get backlash from angry drivers that can't keep up because you let some 4wd cars in with lower weight and more power than RWD cars, just remember I gave you a warning about it happening.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

*****? RWD cars are *FASTER* than all other cars, AWD, OR FF. Rear wheel drive turns better and are *more aerodynamic.*

The Evo is a big, tall 4 door saloon. Its frontal drag area is extremely large. Your 86GT turns sharper and is more aerodynamic. Certainly, it's not the specs slowing you down. The fact that the Scirocco had the same problem earlier...

Or, did you forget that? You ran a 0:52 @ Cape Ring Inside... Everyone else was @ 0:54s, including Harrison1476 in the same car. Then, what happened to the Scirocco specs? NOTHING.


I CAN'T SLOW LANCER DOWN FOR USING THE SAME CAR AS JOHNNY. IT DOESN'T WORK. LancerEvo7 can drive the car he named his GTP Account after, at competitive specs. The fact that Johnny ran a 1:28.2 tells me that Johnny Tunes is a good tuning group. (?) It tells me that Johnny's a good driver. It doesn't tell me that Lancer's car is too fast because Johnny drives it.

JoeTruckV8 is running the 22B STi and getting 1:30s.

 

[freshseth83]

The 22B doesn't get that low in the weight for starters, and it's not an EVO @1100kg. The EVO's have AYC which basically negates what you just said- that being turn in isn't as good on 4wds. Seriously, who are you kidding? (Yourself?) They have the option to run whatever amount of power gets sent to the front wheels. If you know how to tune it, you can get just the right amount of power to pull you out of turns faster. This is why 4wd has been banned in almost all forms of major motorsport. The Scirocco has nothing to do with 4wd cars, why even bring it up? If you don't realize they have an advantage because of the 4wd, you must not be that serious about racing IMO.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Seth, I'm sorry. It's out of my control. All I can do to solve this is ban the Evo VIII. I can't change Lancer's specs because of Johnny, just like I can't change Demolition Racing's specs because of you.

However, damu mentioned that his own car feels slower than some other cars. He's at 256 & 1150. I'll allow 260 & 1140.

S2000s can go up a bit in hp as well to 260 @ 1140.


Also, Team CrazyGuysRacing now has two drivers- agentorunge & T-n-T-2000. The Toyota 86GT and Scion FR-S slots are now full.

 

[TDZdave]

a quck comment in defence of awd, it is possible to pull a 1.28.2 or even lower, however, the tire wear that goes with that kind of time is crazy high, the evo team have already complained about it publicly, im almost certain i could match or better that time with the subaru, but i would have to make 3 pitstops to finish the race, the balance isnt there to run that hard,

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yeah. AWD is great for everything but tire wear. Also, Jormo-Subaru isn't running the full 276 @ 1100 allowed, according to Nizmo, so Seth's comments are only being directed to the Evos.

 

[NizmoDr3]

The Scooby's are running at 276/1152 ... that is the lowest weight that can be had on the '05 model.
According to the car list the older gen Scooby's run at 266/1100 ... so I figured that running 10hp more should equate to being 52kg heavier ...

But why are the Evo's spec'd at 276/1100 but the Scooby's only at 266/1100 on the OP car list? ...

 

[TDZdave]

Yeah. AWD is great for everything but tire wear. Also, Jormo-Subaru isn't running the full 276 @ 1100 allowed, according to Nizmo, so Seth's comments are only being directed to the Evos.

well... its yes and no, the times i posted on p82, some were at 280 and other were 270hp, i got fed up with the engine running over power limit due to it not being broken in properly, so i dropped it right down, but as ive just discoverd, the jormo subaru can run a 1.27.854 at madrid, however, i absolutely destroyed the front tires in that lap, so much so, when i braked for turn 1 the car under steered into the wall at about 130kph,

so 1 lap test pace is crazy, however i would believe that with all the private testing going on that there was a rule where a setup couldnt be modified between qualifying and the races, if this is the case, i know for sure i would be opting for my 1.29.2 one lap package, as the tires will go the distance even though the race pace will drop into the 1.31 or higher range after 2 to 3 laps,

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

1:27.8?

Still not bad.

Otherwise, I don't give much time for changing setups between quali and races. People have to stay on-track while qualifying, and last-minute setup changes could cost you the entire quali session.

Anyways, S2000 & RX-7 at 260 hp & 1140 kg now.

 

[NizmoDr3]

MrM ... are we gonna get an update on the Divisions seeing as though we already have two drivers who have submitted times?