What happened at the end of the Matrix?

[Danoff]

So what's your theory what happened at the end of Matrix Reloaded?

 

[Attila_Da_Hun]

*cough* *movie forum* *cough*

btw... i have no clue....

 

[Der Alta]

Which part of it? Neo's incident with the machines, The unexplained EMP pulse? The human lead attack on the machines? The results of Neo's conversation with the Architect? How the Oracle figures into the picture? What exactly is the relationship between the Oracle and the Architect?

You've posed a very vague question. Care to move this to the Movies section and discuss it further?

AO

 

[Danoff]

ok, going to the movie section.

 

[Danoff]

ah, that's nice.

 

[Josh]

What happened at the end? It sucked, then the credits started rolling...

 

[Danoff]

first of all.... I hope nobody tries to claim that the movie had no plot. It had more plot than I have seen in any movie in a long time. It was so dense with plot that I had to see it a few times to not even catch it all.

 

[Danoff]

So does anyone have a theory on neo's EMP pulse at the end of the movie?

 

[dayboy2k1]

Originally posted by Josh
What happened at the end? It sucked, then the credits started rolling...

True

 

[Danoff]

was it the intricate plot, the attention to detail, the awesome special effects, or the fantastic lines that you thought sucked?

 

[Josh]

Must have been all of that. Yeah.

 

[Der Alta]

I'll side with Danoff. On first take, the movie had issues. 90% of the people that saw the movie, only "Saw" the car chase, Neo's fight with the smiths and Neo's interaction with the machines at the end.

Very few understood the insinuations of where Neo and trinty were together (under the arch). Many people missed the infered co-dependence of Zion and the machines. That conversation alone was so ripe with reflection, inference, insiinuation, and acknowledgement that most people didn't even listen.

Why did Niobe and Jason exchange such looks when she volunteered to go find morpheus? I didn't figure that out until I played the game.

How many people caught the biblical refences for time? Yes, the eye candy was certainly there. I'll admit that I felt let down when seeing the car chase scene and that it was totally GM cars. The only good point was when Niobe showed up in the camaro.

I've not yet gone back to watch the first one again, but from what I've heard, there are inferences in teh first one that are answered in the second one.

I'd also recommend that you rent the game, Download the cheat codes, and beat it in an afternoon just to see the extra parts of the film you missed.

In particular the conversation Niobe had with the elderly gentleman about Zion and how long it lasted last time.

And finally...speaking of the credits in teh second one, how many of you sat through them to see the trailer for the thrid movie?

AO

 

[Duke]

danoff, I'm surprised to see you as a Matrixhead. I freely admit I've never seen the second movie, but somehow I could just never buy the premise of the original movie. I can't shake the feeling that all this cult of fascination is nothing but post-rationalization, to obscure the fact that fundamentally everybody just thinks "it looks really cool".

 

[Ruffryder27]

I thought the architect was the one who created the matrix making him "the father" and the oracle was "the mother" so did they both create it?

 

[Danoff]

Thank you atla. I agree with all of that, 'cept I haven't played the game. I have spent sooo much time the last week or so analyzing that movie. I love that it stands up to analysis.

I've got a few theories about how neo was able to do what he did, but I'm interested in knowing what others think. Obviously the first cut, knee jerk reaction is to assume that he (or them) are still in the matrix (or in another matrix). I'm not sure this really stands up to the context of the scene though. I mean, if he were still in the matrix, why did he get knocked out? If he were still in the matrix, why was smith's real world body there? Would the machines have really been able to simulate link well enough?

 

[NocturnalPS]

Originally posted by Der Alta
I'll side with Danoff. On first take, the movie had issues. 90% of the people that saw the movie, only "Saw" the car chase, Neo's fight with the smiths and Neo's interaction with the machines at the end.

Very few understood the insinuations of where Neo and trinty were together (under the arch). Many people missed the infered co-dependence of Zion and the machines. That conversation alone was so ripe with reflection, inference, insiinuation, and acknowledgement that most people didn't even listen.

Why did Niobe and Jason exchange such looks when she volunteered to go find morpheus? I didn't figure that out until I played the game.

How many people caught the biblical refences for time? Yes, the eye candy was certainly there. I'll admit that I felt let down when seeing the car chase scene and that it was totally GM cars. The only good point was when Niobe showed up in the camaro.

I've not yet gone back to watch the first one again, but from what I've heard, there are inferences in teh first one that are answered in the second one.

I'd also recommend that you rent the game, Download the cheat codes, and beat it in an afternoon just to see the extra parts of the film you missed.

In particular the conversation Niobe had with the elderly gentleman about Zion and how long it lasted last time.

And finally...speaking of the credits in teh second one, how many of you sat through them to see the trailer for the thrid movie?

AO

I sat through the end to see the trailer of the 3rd. Hey did you or have you seen the animatrix? Thats another area of the movie you have to see too. It show what happend to the osiris. Another story it covers was that kid who neo saved. In the animatrix that short film is called "a kids story" Pretty good. Man i cant wait till all the films on the matrix and animatrix are available on DVD. It will be my finest collection set.

 

[NocturnalPS]

Originally posted by danoff
Thank you atla. I agree with all of that, 'cept I haven't played the game. I have spent sooo much time the last week or so analyzing that movie. I love that it stands up to analysis.

I've got a few theories about how neo was able to do what he did, but I'm interested in knowing what others think. Obviously the first cut, knee jerk reaction is to assume that he (or them) are still in the matrix (or in another matrix). I'm not sure this really stands up to the context of the scene though. I mean, if he were still in the matrix, why did he get knocked out? If he were still in the matrix, why was smith's real world body there? Would the machines have really been able to simulate link well enough?

Man im sure all of your,as well as my, questions will be answered in the 3rd film.

 

[Danoff]

Duke,

I'm surprised you're not a matrix-head. I think it is really cool, but I like the premise a lot. I really like movies that tackle the artificial intelligence issue.

It's not just that though, I really like the twist about the real world, and the movie series' attention to their own premise.

I also like the movies' ambition. Not only do they tackle the existance of an AI created virtual reality, the movies tackle the nuances of that virtual reality, the nuances of artificial intelligent programs existing within that reality, the nature of human beings' perception of reality, human beings' relationship with machines aaaand, simultaneously, the movies discuss the philosophical concepts of fate vs. choice vs. causality all-the-while paralleling relgion, developing ground breaking special effects and then pushing the envelope further.

...and there's more.

But so far, waht I like most about the movies is how they stand up to criticism and analysis. How you can ask questions about every scene and come up with answers to those questions that work within the frame of the artificial reality. You can ask questions like: why can neo stop bulltes but not agents? why can he see into the future? How did he stop the machines at the end of reloaded?

It's one of the most well thought out set of movies (so far anyway) that I have ever seen.

 

[Danoff]

Man im sure all of your,as well as my, questions will be answered in the 3rd film.

Sure but part of the fun is guessing about it beforehand.

 

[Der Alta]

There are things that I missed as well. It never dawned on me that the Oracle handed Neo a cookie until I was cleaning up my commputer and had to delete a whole slew of cookies that websites had left behind. this also gives rise to Neo's first conversation with the Oracle when she was baking cookies.

I did catch the releveance of Agent Smith becoming a virus and that connection to the first movie.

I do have the Animatrix, and have watched it quite a few times. In a further attempt to understand more of the theory behind the movies.

After seeing the second movie, I understand why the Oracel in the first movie told Neo "Don't worry about the vase". He'd been there before and broken it before.

As time goes on and I watch the first one more times, I'll catch a few other things.

And yes Duke, it is a Really cool movie. Something for everyone.

What are things that you caught in reviewing the first movie, danoff?

AO

 

[NocturnalPS]

Originally posted by Der Alta



After seeing the second movie, I understand why the Oracel in the first movie told Neo "Don't worry about the vase". He'd been there before and broken it before.

As time goes on and I watch the first one more times, I'll catch a few other things.



AO

I just remembered that part. She probably really does not know the future only that she’s already been there and seen it before. Damn, this movie is deep!

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by danoff
Duke,

I'm surprised you're not a matrix-head. I think it is really cool, but I like the premise a lot. I really like movies that tackle the artificial intelligence issue.

It's not just that though, I really like the twist about the real world, and the movie series' attention to their own premise.

I also like the movies' ambition. Not only do they tackle the existance of an AI created virtual reality, the movies tackle the nuances of that virtual reality, the nuances of artificial intelligent programs existing within that reality, the nature of human beings' perception of reality, human beings' relationship with machines aaaand, simultaneously, the movies discuss the philosophical concepts of fate vs. choice vs. causality all-the-while paralleling relgion, developing ground breaking special effects and then pushing the envelope further.

...and there's more.

But so far, waht I like most about the movies is how they stand up to criticism and analysis. How you can ask questions about every scene and come up with answers to those questions that work within the frame of the artificial reality. You can ask questions like: why can neo stop bulltes but not agents? why can he see into the future? How did he stop the machines at the end of reloaded?

It's one of the most well thought out set of movies (so far anyway) that I have ever seen.

The reason I'm surprised is that as an Objectivist sympathiser, I can't see you wholeheartedly buying the premise that a "real" reality exists outside of our perception, and that our senses do not tell us about our actual environment. It's a very Platonic/Cartesian/Kantian view that Aristotle would refute mercilessly.

After watching the original Matrix, I was left with nothing but a handful of questions that I couldn't get past; they just rendered any subtle nuance or deeper reading irrelevant to me:

• How could the machines get power from human beings, when living animals are notoriously inefficient processors of energy?
  
• If you were trying to keep a world full of people as unknowing slaves, why wouldn't you program their artificial reality to be a paradise? It wouldn't be any more difficult to do, and it would make them dramatically less likely to be dissatisfied and rebel.
  
• Granted the above, why do Neo and the Agents need to conjure up physical weapons like Uzis to fight? Why don't they just psychically fight directly, without the intervention of this fake 20th-century world?

There's more, but I'm sure you get the point. Somehow it all just boils down to "yeah, but it would be so cool" and I'm very suspicious of it.

 

[Rossell]

To consolidate my position as a Matrixhead I wanna alert you to an Easter egg.

During the Oracles only appearence with her bit about candy, watch what she eats. A red pill.

 

[Rossell]

Originally posted by NocturnalPS
I just remembered that part. She probably really does not know the future only that she’s already been there and seen it before. Damn, this movie is deep!

If only George Lucas could do this...

 

[Danoff]

Well, I'm sure there are some leaps in the movie, although I can answer those for the most part. There is definitely an element of "it would be cool if" about that movie. I don't mind that though, it usually is pretty cool.

I can't ignore the philosophical discussion though.

Let me put it this way. It’s kind of like when you go out and buy a ps2 to get gt3 and play it for a long time because it’s cool. Then you go online to get a few questions answered so that you can play the cool game even better. While online you discover an opinions board that has a philosophical discussion going on. I just can’t ignore philosophy. I’m drawn to it like a moth to a time sucking flame.

Quick answers:

It’s possible that the machines are not only living (partially) off of the human’s electricity but tapping their minds for creativity and scientific innovation. Of course the humans in and outside of the matrix have no reason to know that.

They discuss the aspect of an artificial reality paradise. I believe their explanation… we understand our world in degrees of pleasure and pain. One without the other is against human instinct. Also, a pleasure world would lack some measure of consistency which people also need.

I don’t know how neo and the agents would fight telepathically. The matrix simulates a physical environment, which is all they have to do damage to each other. Neo pops into Smith at the end of the first movie and he doesn’t do that later with any other agents, but I think that has more to do with the interaction that occurred when neo tried to destroy smith like he did.

 

[Der Alta]

How could the machines get power from human beings, when living animals are notoriously inefficient processors of energy?

This was not explained in the movie anymore than where the big harvester machines came from. You had to accept that the machines had built and designed these harvestes. I have no answer as there wasn't one provided. But then again, the actual mechanics of a light saber are really known either.

If you were trying to keep a world full of people as unknowing slaves, why wouldn't you program their artificial reality to be a paradise? It wouldn't be any more difficult to do, and it would make them dramatically less likely to be dissatisfied and rebel.

This was answered in the first movie. When Agent Smith and Morpheus were talking (just before the rescue) the Agent explains that the first matrix was an absolute failure, and it was designed a paradise. The human minds attached to it rejected it and it crashed horrendously. "Entire crops were lost" This was explained as the human mind needs suffering to know it is alive. It cannot function without misery. That is why the machines continue to study the human mind SIDE BAR: hence why Neo has gone through the matrix 5 times each with a different emotion/reaction when talking with the Architect.

Granted the above, why do Neo and the Agents need to conjure up physical weapons like Uzis to fight? Why don't they just psychically fight directly, without the intervention of this fake 20th-century world?

Because the Agents are bound by the same set of rules that the humans are. While they are physically stronger and faster, they are still bound by the same rules. The Agents are simply peace keepers designed to eliminate the people who are illegally broadcasting their presence into the matrix. An underlying theme through out is "Hacking into the Matrix" If people weren't able to hack in (Neo/Morpheus/Trinity/Niobe) there would be no need for the Agents, as the regular police force (real people connected to the matrix) would be able to handle the criminals within the rules set governing the martix.

Still abit confusing, but most of the answers are there.

AO

 

[Danoff]

What are things that you caught in reviewing the first movie, danoff?

I actually haven't gone back to watch the first movie again after seeing the second. I've just been informed that there is a scene in it where the architect is referenced.

Just before neo's interrigation with smith in the first film (just before the put the bug in his stomache), the camera pans into a television that's on a panel of televisions.

That room that the camera starts in before it goes into the TV and catches up with neo is the architect's room.

 

[Vasco]

Just want to ask, what is the "Animatrix"?

 

[Der Alta]

My biggest unanswered question on the second movie is "Who was that guy the they took away just as Neo, Trinity and Morpheus walk up to the Merovigian?"

Now did anyone catch that the floor number of the Merovigians room was the same as Neo's room number in the first movie? 101. I'm also wondering where else that number (incidentally - binary code) pops up in the film.

Also in the first film, the room that Neo dies outside of is the room that we first see Trinity in at the beginning of the movie.

AO

 

[Der Alta]

D the V: the Animatrix is a series of 9 short anime films based loosely on the theory of the Matrix movies. Each one produced by the wachowski brothers. They also wrote two of them

AO