What happened at the end of the Matrix?

[Vasco]

Ah ok, and I'm guessing they can help to understand the Matrix theories?

 

[Matrixhasu77]

Originally posted by Der Alta
They also wrote two of them

Actually, didn't they write 4 or 5 of them? It's mentioned in the behind the scenes stuff on the DVD if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Timmotheus]

I really dislike the whole matrix philosophy of "you don't make decisions, you only understand them." Although that might have been changed at the end of the movie, but who really knows. If I believed in that stuff, I might have liked the movie more. Wasn't that French Program/Person great? He was so funny. Especially what he said in French.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

just some things I thought while reading.....

1 in the first movie when they talk about the humans being used to power the machines they say something about the human body providing a certain amount of BTU's (basic thermal unit) which leads me to think that maybe they use the humans body heat for power....

2 I agree with what was said before the perfect matrix was a failure as it said so in the first movie....

3 in the animatrix when it shows the 2nd rennaisance part 2 dont those bulb looking things in the background look exactly like the harvesters in the first matrix?

4 when neo collapsed after stoping the machines and went into a coma......someone said that maybe the real world was just another matrix....Thats what I think too and I think that his coma just means that hes not awake in the fake "real" world with zion and all that stuff because he woke up in the real real world...get it?

 

[Danoff]

BTU's (basic thermal unit)

It's brittish thermal unit.

 

[Danoff]

when neo collapsed after stoping the machines and went into a coma......someone said that maybe the real world was just another matrix....Thats what I think too and I think that his coma just means that hes not awake in the fake "real" world with zion and all that stuff because he woke up in the real real world...get it?

It's possible that this is the answer to the question I posed. I hope not though. I think that would be a total cop-out. It was the knee-jerk reaction of everyone who watched that movie to immediately think that they were in a second matrix.... which is part of the reason why I don't think that's the answer, it would be too easy.

The rest of the reason that I don't think it's the answer is because link cannot be in the matrix (he doesn't have plugs), unless he is plugged into another matrix that he's not aware of, or was simulated carefully by the machines. Also, why was smith's real body laid up next to neo then? Is smith's real body in a secondary matrix?

Again, it's possible that this is the answer, but I think it would be lame and am holding out hopes for something cooler.

 

[Timmotheus]

Originally posted by danoff
The rest of the reason that I don't think it's the answer is because link cannot be in the matrix (he doesn't have plugs), unless he is plugged into another matrix that he's not aware of, or was simulated carefully by the machines. Also, why was smith's real body laid up next to neo then? Is smith's real body in a secondary matrix?

Within the "real" matrix, nobody had plugs. So why can't link just never have been introduced to the "real" matrix?

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by danoff
It's brittish thermal unit.

I looked it up it stands for both....

 

[Der Alta]

I didn't think that it was Smith's real body, I thought it was Bane. The guy that was cutting his hand open and was going to kill Neo.

danoff, have you seen the movie called "the Thiirteenth floor" If this were a "Matrix within a Matrix" it would be a complete rip-off of that movie.

AO

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by danoff
It's possible that this is the answer to the question I posed. I hope not though. I think that would be a total cop-out. It was the knee-jerk reaction of everyone who watched that movie to immediately think that they were in a second matrix.... which is part of the reason why I don't think that's the answer, it would be too easy.

The rest of the reason that I don't think it's the answer is because link cannot be in the matrix (he doesn't have plugs), unless he is plugged into another matrix that he's not aware of, or was simulated carefully by the machines. Also, why was smith's real body laid up next to neo then? Is smith's real body in a secondary matrix?

Again, it's possible that this is the answer, but I think it would be lame and am holding out hopes for something cooler.

well the smith is a virus from the matrix world...so logicaly the way a virus works is by spreading itself to other systems so maybe when the virus smith transferd himself into the real world through that guy it was just as a regular virus would spread to multiple computers except in this case the computer is the matrix world or worlds in this case...

 

[Danoff]

right....

but then how did neo do his EMP thing at the end?

Here's my wild wacky theory, which I don't even think is correct - but it works.

The machines programmed the matrix environment better than the people even knew their enviornment (or at least better than the people in the early 21st century knew it). The machines included in the matrix environment the fact that human beings could generate an EMP from their body and sense EM fields.

Neo, being the one and all, learned that from the matrix while he was learning to manipulate the matrix. He then realized that something new he learned in the matrix is actually applicable in the real world. In effect, the machines taught neo how to EMP.

So my theory is this. The machines simulate the human's ability. Humans forget the ability (because the matrix and machines have them), the one comes along and learns the ability from the machines.

...and of course the reason he's in a coma is because the EMP zapped the electical signals in his brain.


Only one problem. This theory doesn't take into account the parallelism between neo and smith.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

hmmm....what if you apply that thery to the 2nd matrix theory.....that would explain the smith....

 

[Magic069]

Why wouldn't that theory work with Smith?

Remember Smith took human form before entering the real world. Therefore, he should be able to do anything that neo can in the real world.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

yeah but in order to take human form wouln't he need a physical body? I thought he took over that guy's brain in the real world....no I dea how tho

 

[Magic069]

Right before the guy went throught the phone, he copied himself into that person. Allowing him to go out of the matrix, and into the real world.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

well if it is the real world.....

 

[Danoff]

my theory works for smith, but it doesn't take into account the parallelism that the movies are setting up between neo and smith. Those two characters are very connected... and I don't know where the movies are going with that.

It's clear to me that smith is a virus copying himself onto whoever's brain he wants to be copied onto. The idea is that these people's conciousness is somehow loaded up to the matrix, which is why they have to get to a phone to get out of the matrix.... so that their conciousness can be downloaded back out of the matrix. So if smith copies himself onto your matrix conciousness, he can be downloaded back onto your brain in real life. It's the same way they're able to learn as fast as they are from the computer.

I don't think my theory is correct, even though it works, because it's a little too far removed from the plot of the movie. I just don't think that the movie is headed there. I think it has more to do with the neo-smith relationship than anything.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

should be a good 3rd movie....

 

[Der Alta]

So here's a theory that I had this morngin as I drudged my way into the office through stop and go traffic.

In the first movie, Morpheus talks about "The Guy" that freed himself from the Matrix. This guy "woke up" one day and was able to see the world "Different" and it was he who first started the war.

Now in the second movie, we find out there were previous versions of the matrix and each one ended with Zion being destroyed and "The One" taking 17 (?) people with him to start it over.

Could it be that Neo is the original guy who "Woke up" and started the war? Each time Zion dies, he wakes up again inside another matrix, as "The Guy who started it" Therby continuing the cycle and the mythos of "The One". A stretch of the imagination, but it follows the logic of a Matrix within a Matrix. This would allow the machines to study the human mind, while keeping them in control.

This would also allow the machines to reboot each persons mind and replay the scenario of "The One" and influence the Choice that the one will make when confronted with the choice of saving Trinity or Zion.

After all, the Machines can't learn on their own, they need to study the emotions of the humans in order to make their own choices. Remeber that machines can't make choices, they can only act on what they've been programmed. They are dependent upon Humans to make choices for them.

I think that is the ultimate goal of the Matrix. It is to learn how humans make choices, so that machines can learn how to do it themselves.

The problem is in this version of the Matrix, Smith has learned how to make his own decisions and the machines no longer have control over him. Which disrupts the cycle of the "the One" and "The Guy"

Only a theory, and I'm finding it tought to put into words. I'll ponder a bit more after I rewatch the conversation with the Oracle and Neo in the first movie tonight.

And hopefully the third movie will live up to the hype. If not, it'll remind me of "The Highlander" sequels.

AO

 

[Danoff]

It's an interesting theory. I'm going to have to chew on that for a while. I thought I'd mention one thing....

I think that is the ultimate goal of the Matrix. It is to learn how humans make choices, so that machines can learn how to do it themselves.

The definition of AI would be that the machines can learn on their own and make their own choices. I would say that they probably lack the creativity of humans though.

 

[Der Alta]

I take a slightly different interpretation of AI. It is artifical intelligence. Programmed from information input. While the machines can make decisions, they can't make choices.

A decision is based upon reason and knowledge (all programmed) while a choice is made from the heart based on emotions.

that is the part that the machines are trying to learn. Choices made from an emotional stand point.

When faced with Neo's predicament (Zion vs. Trinity) the machines would make the obvious decison that it benefits more people therfore it is the correct decision. However Humans make an emotional choice that saving Trinity is the correct choice.

Wher does creativity come from? emtional differences in people. So I'll side with you on that satement and add that they lack the creativity because they don't have the emotion.

Therefore, they create the Matrix as a program to evaluate the human decision. If we state that Machines under stand things in a binary way (all 1's and 0's) or for the sake of argument, yes or no, right or wrong, on or off and Humans understand it in other ways yes/no/maybe, right/wrong/gray area, on/off/warming up. The machines understand cause and effect (if/then statements) but humans can figure out "Why" the cause results in the effect.

This is the ultimate goal of the Matrix. It is for machines to learn how humans make choices, so that they can do it for themselves. Until that time, the machines are dependent upon the humans to make their choices for them.

Does that help? Again, that's only my under-developed theory.

AO

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

sounds good....when is the 3rd one going to be realeased?

 

[Danoff]

D.A.

I think we're talking about the same thing.

 

[Der Alta]

I think we're along hte same lines as well.

Just wanted to let you know that I ordered my IMAX tickets today for the Sunday evening showing of Reloaded. And it's likely I'll see "the Hulk" over the weekend.

I'll have a fe wmore thoughts to review on Monday.

AO

 

[illegal]

Well, after reading all those posts and thinking about the movies some deeper. I developped some theories of my own, which are entirely based on 'emotions'... Not going to tell them until I saw the 3rd movie. Actually this movie has brought up the philosophical part in me.

I hope Revolutions will answer all our questions.

 

[Danoff]

I believe it was Seraph in this movie who said "You do not truely know someone until you fight them."

The first time I saw this movie I thought, that's really lame. I mean, who fights anyone these days.

The second time I saw the movie it occurred to me that the definition of the word fight is much more broad. That perhaps he was referring to debate and argument. Or just being enemies with someone.

It is true that you can't completely know someone until you have been their adversary.

 

[Der Alta]

So in keeping with that theory, can we theorize that Neo is nothing more than a program in the matrix and the machines are using him to learn about human emotion? After all, the machines are trying to control the humans and the easiest way for them to analyze it would be to walk a mile in a humans shoes. A loose interpretation (off the top of my head would be that the machines are perfecting a humans ability to make choices by sending a program into Zion and fight alongside the human forces. Thus knowing hte battle from both sides.

It's a stretch, but you may have hit upon a good theory.

AO

 

[Danoff]

s'what I love about the movie... there are so many possbilities.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

the trailer to the 3rd movie doesn't help you figure out anything...

 

[powerslide4Engl]

One of the basic theory that seems to govern The Matrix is that there is an opposite which equals out the level. The real world seems to 'equal out' the Matrix, and there is a constant power struggle between the machines and the humans.
Now, if you watch the lobby scene in the first film, I wonder whether Agent Smith is The One's nemesis, so I guess you could even call him 'The Nought'.
In computer programming, everything is either a 'nought' or a 'one'.
In the same way, Zion is either destroyed in each Matrix, a nought, or in theory could survive and be a One.
When the machines win, it is a nought, but if the humans win, the one will become positive, because no matter how many noughts you have before it, the balance will change from being equal to a positive on the Human side, which cannot be equalled out.

Blimey, my head hurts.