[WHAT HAPPENS?] - Let's face it, why is Polyphony Digital so slow in content production?

[PorscheHD]

I don't know why PD are so slow, but as a sidenote:

One of the best simulators on the market today (Assetto Corsa) were created by 4 developers (they are now a few more). Not including the people at 505 that create the console versions.

It's weird if PD use few employees as an excuse.

And Asetto Corsa as perfect as it is (ahum) was also done in a few months?

Why should Poly do things other then now? Because we are inpatient? We dont pay a monthly payment to make a game for us. Everybody is free to wait on a game or buy a game.... we cant demand anyhing else.

There game there way of working. Accept or move on. Its that simple....

Do not confuse a video game enthusiastic site with a cultist site or church site.

I think it's great and honest that the GtPlanet site allows discussions. This is mature and intelligent.

GtPlanet is not a fanboys site. GtPlanet is not a cult. I'm really glad about it.

If you want a church or place of worship, here is not your place.

Wow you are the second one that say that:

If 8 more people say that i will go, deal?

 

[Scaff]

It's great, i haven noticed any big differences between PC 1 and 2, AC or GT S all played on PS4 of course.

Really? Quite a number exist.

I don't have that on, but the scratches in the paint after hitting a wall etc is great.

shame, as it would help clean up some of the on-line racing

Very detailed rain effect, we have also rain puddles like PC 2:

They are nothing at all like the ones in PC2.

And rain drops on the front shield, not as much as PC 1 or 2, but enoght:

They certainly look pretty, shame that's about the limit of it.

Psysics are fine for me because if i want to race for real i get in my car.

Really, you have access to every car and track in every racing game. Pictures please.

But, you just said in a post above that it's the same engine, improved; which I agreed on.

Actually my point was that they didn't just add cars and tracks, and improve the lighting a little.

When I'm referring to quality, I'm referring to quality overall , which for me is better in GT Sport. It's more polished, as you said, the graphics are very good, car models as well. Yes, it can be improved, like you said: physics, tyre model etc. But neither Pcars2's physics are perfect.
And as I said, these are my opinions, I'm not speaking here for everyone, of course your opinion might be different, otherwise the world would be borring

I've not claimed that PC2's physics are perfect, but they are (as are AC's) of a higher quality than GTS's.

 

[BrunusCL82]

And no one could justify the delay of PD! In fact, the GTS has advantages over the visual. Right.

But it loses in other points such as physical damage, physical, dynamic climate and content. Right.

And nobody can justify the delay and the slow working of PD.

Why does PD, even with a bigger budget, even with its good relationship with the automakers, even working for a one platform only (PS4), even with a long production time, ends up presenting a weak content result?

This is not normal. It is questionable. Definitely.

For most, GTS has the best gameplay of racing games. Most likely.

I agree. But malnourished content production is incomprehensible. If GTS had 2/3 of the circuits and cars of PC2 or Forza7, it would be an almost perfect game.

The annoyance of some people is that if have the feeling that the PD works with the handbrake locked, and do not want to unlock.

 

[Lukanyon]

Isn't it funny that every GT or PD's flaws have an excuse?

Lack of content: "You're just being impatient! Everything that everybody wants will come in future updates. Yeah, we waited 4 years and other devs have made more games and content within that time… but you're being impatient!!!"

PD being slow: "But GT Sport has 'the graphics' and all other games don't look real! They're better in all other departments but they don't have 'the graphics', which are way more important than physics, weather and damage, you know?"

 

[IngRobNy]

If 8 more people say that i will go, deal?

Hahaha, don't go, as he said

And Asetto Corsa as perfect as it is (ahum)

Don't get me started with AC , the AI dosen't even do pit stop:

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/when-does-ai-do-pit-stops.41343/

 

[Nuschel01]

mimimi

Look at other games from japanese companies, except from Pokémon barely any get a new installment every year afaik
It's just PD's (or japanese people's) way of doing stuff, they don't rush it, take their time and do what they feel is nescessary for the game being good.
GT mode or anything else that has been rushed out to a release to tame people like you clearly shows that their way of doing it is better, bc imho GT mode is nothing special or anything defined and basically just some custom races thrown together by PD's staff.

Also please read my first post on page 1 and stop writing every sentence in a single paragraph, it's a pain to keep a reading flow.

 

[Scaff]

When you actually play these games you realise that GT Sport graphics look real. PC2 and Forza 7 they don't. The differences can be quite subtle but the resulting difference is considerable. GT Sport also feels right whereas the other two don''t. They are all enjoyable but, for me, GT Sport stands out quite a long way.

CJ

I don't play FM so can't speak for that, but in regard to PC2 and comparisons to reality, GTS isn't 'right' in terms of physics.

It has a good number of quite demonstrable physics, tyre model and FFB issues that neither AC or PC2 suffer from.

That's without addressing just how wrong the loose surface physics are in GTS, or that the wet surface is again simply a reduction in grip level rather than an actual attempt at replicating the reality of wet surface racing, particularly in regard to variable levels of standing water and how tyre behave as a result.

 

[BrunusCL82]

Isn't it funny that every GT or PD's flaws have an excuse?

Lack of content: "You're just being impatient! Everything that everybody wants will come in future updates. Yeah, we waited 4 years and other devs have made more games and content within that time… but you're being impatient!!!"

PD being slow: "But GT Sport has 'the graphics' and all other games don't look real! They're better in all other departments but they don't have 'the graphics', which are way more important than physics, weather and damage, you know?"

Exactly. They change the point of the discussion.

They do not want to face the point of the discussion. They use fallacious arguments. It's childish.

They seem to want to protect their pet franchise.

No one wants to hurt the reputation of the GT or PD franchise. We want to understand the delay!

 

[PorscheHD]

Haha scaff now you make me laugh..... whats your point here? Just because its not realistic i cant enjoy driving a game version of a Audi R8 LMS?

Did i say i have experience in real life with racing in real race cars?

I only said that all the race games are crap because 10 years ago i drove my Alfa Romeo 20 times arround the Nordschleife and there is no game that i can play with a PS4 that can come close to that experience in my living room. If you want to get close to that you come i a race simulator from red bull that
Nobody cant pay.

I love the racing of the game because its a game not because its comes close to real because that is with just a tv a ps4 and cough not possible.

The physics for me are great for a racing game with controller.

 

[IngRobNy]

Exactly. They change the point of the discussion.

No we didn't, you started the discussion with this and more:

oes GTS have great graphics? Yes! However, they are not so superior to Forza 7 or Project Car 2.

In an intent of "damage control", I read fans saying that Project Cars 2 tracks are ugly and poorly crafted.

Honestly, they are not! I saw a video on Sugo, COTA, Basthurt, and they are excellent.

I read fans saying that GT cars are incredibly well crafted.

Right. But F7 or PC2 cars are not made with 16 bits. They are very well made cars.

I see fans talking about GT lighting.

Okay. But the F7 and PC2 lighting is very good. Not like GT, but it's good. But they have rain and dynamic weather.

I see the dynamic climate being implemented in Forza 7 and PC2 in a very well worked out way. Very beautiful.

Where you complain on every aspect of GT S and we are just discussing what you wrote in your first post in your thread.

 

[Scaff]

Haha scaff now you make me laugh..... whats your point here? Just because its not realistic i cant enjoy driving a game version of a Audi R8 LMS?

My point here is that members should be able to discuss issues and concerns about GTS (and any title) without being attacked for it.

Personally I have no issue overall with GTS, or the GT series, I do however think the most serious problem with the franchise is however the attitude and behaviour of those who insist on 'white-knighting' it.

Did i say i have experience in real life with racing in real race cars?

Your the one who said if you wanted to race you would just go out and do it in your car.

I only said that all the race games are crap because 10 years ago i drove my Alfa Romeo 20 times arround the Nordschleife and there is no game that i can play with a PS4 that can come close to that experience in my living room. If you want to get close to that you come i a race simulator from red bull that
Nobody cant pay.

I've spent 20 years in the motor industry and have logged a large number of hours on track, proving grounds and test facilities with a range of cars from road to race. I disagree with you.

I love the racing of the game because its a game not because its comes close to real because that is with just a tv a ps4 and cough not possible.

Its more than possible to get closer with a PS4 to reality than GTS does.

The physics for me are great for a racing game with controller.

No problem with you feeling that at all, however what you feel is great doesn't then make it accurate in comparison to reality.

 

[BrunusCL82]

Look at other games from japanese companies, except from Pokémon barely any get a new installment every year afaik
It's just PD's (or japanese people's) way of doing stuff, they don't rush it, take their time and do what they feel is nescessary for the game being good.
GT mode or anything else that has been rushed out to a release to tame people like you clearly shows that their way of doing it is better, bc imho GT mode is nothing special or anything defined and basically just some custom races thrown together by PD's staff.

Also please read my first post on page 1 and stop writing every sentence in a single paragraph, it's a pain to keep a reading flow.

I see someone very angry.

Why, man?

GTS is just a video game. It is not a religion or a statue of idolatry. Stay calm.

I've read your arguments. And I completely disagree. I do not find logic and honest basis.

No we didn't, you started the discussion with this and more:



Where you complain on every aspect of GT S and we are just discussing what you wrote in your first post in your thread.

No. I just anticipated the fallacy arguments that fas use to justify the delay of PD. But the point of the question is at the beginning and end of the text.

 

[Anirudh]

I

Firstly, I do not want to provoke the fans. Nor to create intrigue. I really want to propose the dialogue.

I wanted to understand that.

Since GT3, the PD presents several arguments for the delay of its games. But in the end, it launches incomplete games.

Maybe, the PD has many advantages over T10 and SMS. Which are they?

- Good relationship with automakers.
- Good relationship with FIA.
- Much prestige and patience from SONY.
- And probably have a much bigger budget than T10 and SMS.

But these softhouses feature games more often and with a lot of content. Much!

I see a lot of fans doing "damage control" even in an irrational way.

Does GTS have great graphics? Yes! However, they are not so superior to Forza 7 or Project Car 2.

In an intent of "damage control", I read fans saying that Project Cars 2 tracks are ugly and poorly crafted.

Honestly, they are not! I saw a video on Sugo, COTA, Basthurt, and they are excellent.

I read fans saying that GT cars are incredibly well crafted.

Right. But F7 or PC2 cars are not made with 16 bits. They are very well made cars.

I see fans talking about GT lighting.

Okay. But the F7 and PC2 lighting is very good. Not like GT, but it's good. But they have rain and dynamic weather.

I see the dynamic climate being implemented in Forza 7 and PC2 in a very well worked out way. Very beautiful.

And why GTS, even with five or four years of production, has such a weak content game?

F7 and PC2 do not have the production time as GTS had. But they delivers a vast cast of cars and tracks.

And another advantage is that PD works for one platform only.

While SMS and T10 work for two or more platforms such as PC, Xbox and PS4.

All this is normal? It's definitely not because of the advantages that PD has in comparison to other softhouses.

Does Kaz have difficulty delegating roles and tasks to others?

Does PD have tools and outdated technology?

The PD has few employees?

The PD is a softhouse with little money. T10 and SMS are richer and have more employees?

What really happens?

I do not adapt to the gameplay of F7 and PC2. I do not know what it is. I love the gameplay of the GT franchise. I really wanted the GT franchise to produce content like F7 and PC2.

I just wish we had a game with graphics and polish of gt sport, car quantity of forza and tracks configurations of project cars 2.

 

[PorscheHD]

My point here is that members should be able to discuss issues and concerns about GTS (and any title) without being attacked for it.

Personally I have no issue overall with GTS, or the GT series, I do however think the most serious problem with the franchise is however the attitude and behaviour of those who insist on 'white-knighting' it.



Your the one who said if you wanted to race you would just go out and do it in your car.


I've spent 20 years in the motor industry and have logged a large number of hours on track, proving grounds and test facilities with a range of cars from road to race. I disagree with you.


Its more than possible to get closer with a PS4 to reality than GTS does.



No problem with you feeling that at all, however what you feel is great doesn't then make it accurate in comparison to reality.

Yeah okay your right may bad what was i thinking

Accepting it for what it is is not that white thing you say but okay also here i am wrong of course

 

[Nuschel01]

I see someone very angry. Why, man?
GTS is just a video game. It is not a religion or a statue of idolatry. Stay calm. I've read your arguments. And I completely disagree. I do not find logic and honest basis.

I'm not angry lol I'm just kinda annoyed by all the people whining about GTS and how stupid PD is. It's just their mentality and Japan's in general which is both a blessing and a burden at the same time. Just look at Honda's F1 engine, they're hugely embassed by it yet they still don't want anyone from outside help them and any update they rushed out turned to be even more garbage compared to what they had.

Also if you disagree with my arguments, why don't you then just state what you think about them instead of just telling me they're illogical and dishonest...

 

[BrunusCL82]

I

I just wish we had a game with graphics and polish of gt sport, car quantity of forza and tracks configurations of project cars 2.

All of us, my friend.

And this is the problem. We know that PD is very competent. But it seems that it works without focus and wasting a lot of time with futile things. Feeling...

I do not know why PD, being so powerful softhouse, presents such a malnourished game.

 

[CJ1045]

I don't play FM so can't speak for that, but in regard to PC2 and comparisons to reality, GTS isn't 'right' in terms of physics.

It has a good number of quite demonstrable physics, tyre model and FFB issues that neither AC or PC2 suffer from.

That's without addressing just how wrong the loose surface physics are in GTS, or that the wet surface is again simply a reduction in grip level rather than an actual attempt at replicating the reality of wet surface racing, particularly in regard to variable levels of standing water and how tyre behave as a result.

I would strongly disagree on the FFB element of your comment. That in PC2 (PS4 Pro version) is awful. If you turn it up you get a horrible see-sawing effect and if you turn it down you can barely feel it. There is nearly no rumble at all off the curbs. The track 'bump' feedback is also incredibly strong even with the effects turned right down. For a time I thought that it was simply universal feedback controls and you had to spend a long time dialing the levels in for your specific wheel. But I then realised that I was being a little dumb and it clearly knew what wheel I had for the calibration. Speaking of which the instructions for calibration are just plain wrong. In the second step of wheel calibration you have to turn the wheel to a precise degree setting not just vertical (T300 RS btw). Don't even get me started on the poor sound - something clearly is wrong with the sound as PC1 was excellent on the same system.

CJ

 

[Scaff]

I would strongly disagree on the FFB element of your comment. That in PC2 (PS4 Pro version) is awful. If you turn it up you get a horrible see-sawing effect and if you turn it down you can barely feel it. There is nearly no rumble at all off the curbs. The track 'bump' feedback is also incredibly strong even with the effects turned right down. For a time I thought that it was simply universal feedback controls and you had to spend a long time dialing the levels in for your specific wheel. But I then realised that I was being a little dumb and it clearly knew what wheel I had for the calibration. Speaking of which the instructions for calibration are just plain wrong. In the second step of wheel calibration you have to turn the wheel to a precise degree setting not just vertical (T300 RS btw). Don't even get me started on the poor sound - something clearly is wrong with the sound as PC1 was excellent on the same system.

CJ

I've got my PC2 wheel settings dialed in to be almost exactly the same as AC, with the exact same wheel that you are using.

As for the audio, I agree that it certainly has issues, a quite good thread about that exists in the PC2 sub-forum.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ps4-overall-volume-still-too-low.362365/page-3#post-12118671

 

[MisterOne77]

At this point, even if I don't have GTS, I've accepted that PD will be slow to release content. Honestly, I don't have that much of a problem with that. I can wait. If I had the game, I'd just playthrough GT mode until that new content comes. Or, I'd just go into some online lobbies and screw around. Or I'd just play some other games in the meantime.
Something like this isn't really an issue for me as there would be other things I could play during the wait, like COD, or Fortnite, or even GT6 and other games on my PS3.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Pcars2 is having great track list and dynamic TOD, weather one would thought this would be the racing game of this gen. But it is simply a copy and paste game and no wonder that game bombed. Pcars was released when PS4 din't have much games so may be that is the reason it did well.

GTS, is made from scratch. I do not think their next game will be from scratch so I would think 200 more cars and hopefully 15 more tracks will be added so content wise it be good. I also hope dynamic TOD and weather is implemented along with proper GT mode with other improvements like gameplay, AI, sound etc ..

How do you know PCARS2 bombed? Do you have a link to current sales figures and do you know what developer sales targets were? Looking forward to seeing your source as I can't find them anywhere. Also, if PCARS2 is simply a "copy and paste" won't GTS2 also be a copy and paste? How is the largest track list ever in a sim and double the cars of the previous game not to mention the other features like Live Track 3, qualify as copy/paste?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Pcars2 is having great track list and dynamic TOD, weather one would thought this would be the racing game of this gen. But it is simply a copy and paste game and no wonder that game bombed. Pcars was released when PS4 din't have much games so may be that is the reason it did well.

GTS, is made from scratch. I do not think their next game will be from scratch so I would think 200 more cars and hopefully 15 more tracks will be added so content wise it be good. I also hope dynamic TOD and weather is implemented along with proper GT mode with other improvements like gameplay, AI, sound etc ..

It's funny to see someone refer to PCARS2 as a "copy and paste game" but not level the same sort of comment at Sport's 1.10 update.

Every sequel game is going to recycle bits and pieces from the last ones. It'd be sort of silly not to, especially with how long asset creation takes these days.

...

I wonder if the industry-accepted pricing model has something to do with all of this. Polyphony has gone on record a few times about the artistic approach it takes to items in-game (one modeller building a car from start to finish over six man-months, etc), and that undoubtedly slows things down. But if devs could charge higher prices for what they deem premium titles — consider a BMW 3-series versus a Mondeo — would customers be receptive to it?

One could make the argument that Sport's FIA-focused modes are the reason the game is so small in terms of content versus other titles out there. That could be the case: a conscious decision to avoid the sprawl of the PS3 era, to refocus the game on a singular pursuit. Huge amounts of content isn't the point.

But considering the 1.10 update, and how it adds in a lot of content that's unlikely to come up in FIA events, that message is muddled a bit. And with the talk of a wide range of vehicles hopefully being added down the road, it gets muddled further. Personally, I welcome it; I appreciate the old car-encyclopedia approach because of how much it can teach people about the world of the automobile. It's why I play so much of FM7 and GTS back-to-back these days; it's not a one-or-the-other choice, but complementary. There's no reason both approaches — the racing-as-a-daily-activity Sport one, or the car-culture-encyclopedia Forza one — can't exist in one game.

But I do believe the current marketing angle for Sport isn't suited to this. That was best exemplified in the "burn it to the ground" trailer. It actively distanced itself from the old, so it comes across as strange to then embrace it post-release.

 

[PrinceMG]

And Asetto Corsa as perfect as it is (ahum) was also done in a few months?

Assetto Corsa was perfect when it was Ferrari Virtual Academy. The changes they have done over time is mostly adding cars, tracks and tweaking the tyre model.

Yes, they have added some functionality over time, but the core game from years ago (the one that just a few developers made) makes doughnuts around GTS in its current shape, after hundreds of developers at PD have been "working" for years.

 

[CJ1045]

I've got my PC2 wheel settings dialed in to be almost exactly the same as AC, with the exact same wheel that you are using.

As for the audio, I agree that it certainly has issues, a quite good thread about that exists in the PC2 sub-forum.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/ps4-overall-volume-still-too-low.362365/page-3#post-12118671

So what are your wheel settings?

CJ

 

[Scaff]

So what are your wheel settings?

CJ

In PC2 I run:
Raw
Gain 100
Vol 35
Tone 50
FX 30

In AC I run:
FFB 40 and everything else off.

As I run a tactile setup I don't need or want canned SOP effects (as the tactile takes care of that), the above give a very similar degree of wheel weight and FFB between the two.

 

[DesertPenguin]

What do you mean by a tactile setup?

 

[JacksHerer]

Vibrations from silent speakers like butt kicker.

 

[Swift20B]

Hmm, as much as I am a fan of the original layout of previous GT games. I'm still on the fence when it comes to GTS. NO, I am not impressed with the tracks except for Willow Springs. Even then, Willow Springs is still very inaccurate to the real life version. As I have personally visited the racing grounds of Willow Springs on my last Vacation out west. And I'll tell you from experience, that GT6 had a much more accurate version, with small feature missing such as radio towers on the hills and some buildings in the distant background.

When it comes to the Tokyo expressway. I'm very disappointed. They could have easily made the C1 loop. It's been done on the TXR series on the PS2. A console with less computing power than the PS3, let alone the PS4.

Although, to the contrary, when considering the method and time taken to build the game. I'm starting to become less skeptical. Hopefully in due time, they will fill in the gaps. Maybe they might create a new version of the track path editor. As I've looked at the Colorado Springs Theme. It seems open to become a possible layout theme like sierra is. Currently I'm riding GT6 till the end with over 40 real life replicas of Touges and race courses I've built.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I gotta get me one of those soon

 

[Johnnypenso]

Vibrations from silent speakers like butt kicker.

More like a transducer and not a speaker as it primarily produces vibrations instead of sound. In a good pc sim you can use software to make your transducers produce very specific vibrations for things like gearshifts, engine rumble, curbing and rumble strips and much more. I'm probably going to venture into it myself in the near future but I have tried it and it really adds to the immersion.

 

[JacksHerer]

Yeh I have a butt kicker gamer that is ace with dirt rally VR