What if Japan made cars that has a Big-block OHV pushrod V8 engines

[The Vanishing Boy]

Wouln't be interesting?
The power of a Musclecar, w/ a reliability and duability of a Toyota or Honda. If that happens, I'm in!!!

 

[12sec. Civic]

I think OHV engines are too primal. Leave that to American cars, although not even they are sticking with the prehistoric OHV Pushrod engines any more. Only about 10 cars still use those crappy engines.


Edit: When you said "The power of a muscle car" did you forget that roughly 40% of modern day vehicles have the power of a 60's "muscle car". And about 75% of them could easily out accelerate almost any 60's muscle car.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Well, sorry 'bout that.

 

[vat_man]

...and let's not talk about handling, refinement, build quality, safety, economy and emissions...

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Ok, wheels, engine, brakes, seats, and chassis. No roofline, windshield, doors, etc.

Man! My thread sucks! could somebody close this tread.

 

[vat_man]

That said - I do love squeezing the throttle on my Uncle's late 60's Chrysler V8 (forget the capacity, mid 5 litre something), that torque just oozes out.... it is lovely...

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by The Vanishing Boy
Ok, wheels, engine, brakes, seats, and chassis. No roofline, windshield, doors, etc.

Man! My thread sucks! could somebody close this tread.

Actually, no it doesn't.
The ideal has just changed. Japan does make "big" V-8 engines. Not the 7.0 liter monsters of yesteryear. But do you really need more than about 4.5 liters of displacement in anything smaller than a Suburban?
They are just High-Tech engines with DOHC, etc. They are also "low HP" for Japanese engines.
With engines like the 4-cyl. Nissan SR-20 making 100HP per liter, and being dead reliable...The new V-8's in Lexus, Toyota, etc. making about 50-70Hp/Liter. Should run fast, and last until two days past forever.
Like Vat, I do love my Big-blocks! I could tell you stories about a certain Ford Country Squire wagon with a 429 Super-Cobra Jet, that would curl your hair.

 

[driessie]

I think if Japanese manufacturers would use 7-litre engines with the technology they put in their smaller engines, it would give more than fireworks.
Imagine that if they have 2-litre engines with, let's say, 250 bhp that they could get at least 800 bhp out of a big engine, without even pushing it too hard.
If they would put in some more technology, bigger/higher pressure turbos, or higher revs I wouldn't be surprised to see them getting way over 1000bhp.

Then the Bugatti Veyron would have some competition.

 

[Magic069]

Originally posted by The Vanishing Boy
Ok, wheels, engine, brakes, seats, and chassis. No roofline, windshield, doors, etc.

Man! My thread sucks! could somebody close this tread.

Don't be so quick to beat yourself up!

Although I think you saying this would be a direct insult againist Japanese automakers. I don't think they want to be the same class as Americian cars.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by vat_man
...and let's not talk about handling, refinement, build quality, safety, economy and emissions...

I dunno - not much is safer than a huge, 1970's Chevelle with a twenty-foot long crash zone between the front bumper and the steering wheel.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by M5Power

I dunno - not much is safer than a huge, 1970's Chevelle with a twenty-foot long crash zone between the front bumper and the steering wheel.

You're obviously not familiar with crumple zones.

On the plus side, with no seat belts and the vinyl interior, they could just hose out what was left of Mum and Dad, and the kids could have a pretty well undamaged car.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by vat_man


You're obviously not familiar with crumple zones.

On the plus side, with no seat belts and the vinyl interior, they could just hose out what was left of Mum and Dad, and the kids could have a pretty well undamaged car.

Are you telling me that muscle cars had poor crumple zones? In the front of any one muscle car was hundreds upon hundreds of pounds of steel and chrome.

 

[risingson77]

12 Sec. Civic: OHC engines have been around as long as pushrod engines. They just have not been as widely used until recently because they are more expensive to manufacture.

As far as the specific output thing is concerned (HP/Liter) getting ultra-high efficiency out of a big V8 is more difficult than a four. Mostly because you must run the engine at a higher speed to make more HP (all other things being equal). The rotating mass of a V8 is much greater than a small displacement four. So, you must have a stronger crank, con-rods, cylinder sleeves etc. just to keep the engine from flying apart. Also, pushrods do not like being run at high speed - again, because of greater inertia. It is very hard to keep the valves from floating because of this. The best thing that happens in that situation is that the engine loses power. The worst is that the engine chews itself to pieces.

Not to say it can't be done, but it's expensive....

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by M5Power
Are you telling me that muscle cars had poor crumple zones? In the front of any one muscle car was hundreds upon hundreds of pounds of steel and chrome.

As for what defines a crumple zone, yes, cars before 1975 had terrible, if non-existent crumple zones. A crumple zone is defined as an area of the car that will collapse in a controlled manner so as to absorb kinetic energy and prevent that energy from entering the passenger compartment. *whew* Muscle cars, et. al., generally didn't crumple. They simply stopped, having a strong, heavy frame, and the passenger was flung against the safety belt. If the belt held, they sustained internal damage. If not, they went through the windshield. (Thus the myth of how you'd be safter if you were flung from the car.)

Great cars, no doubt, but not really safe. In a '03 Focus vs. '71 Charger accident, I'd rather be in the Focus.

 

[Hooligan]

Originally posted by risingson77
As far as the specific output thing is concerned (HP/Liter) getting ultra-high efficiency out of a big V8 is more difficult than a four. Mostly because you must run the engine at a higher speed to make more HP (all other things being equal). The rotating mass of a V8 is much greater than a small displacement four. So, you must have a stronger crank, con-rods, cylinder sleeves etc. just to keep the engine from flying apart. Also, pushrods do not like being run at high speed - again, because of greater inertia. It is very hard to keep the valves from floating because of this. The best thing that happens in that situation is that the engine loses power. The worst is that the engine chews itself to pieces.

Not to say it can't be done, but it's expensive....

I think this has been done a few times before.... Wasn't it called "Golden-Age F1"? Of course, by the sixties, it was high-strung V12's. Not large displacement, but as bullet-proof as a V12 gets, I think.

 

[risingson77]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? I basically said it could be done, but not for any small amount of money. F1 teams still run their V8s to 19,000 RPM. But they have huge budgets. I was only mentioning the problems that would face a production engine.

 

[Joey D]

How is it that you call the OHV crappy? Hmm the Viper has a OHV and I do believe its one nice car...I could be wrong. While I'd never drive one there are many people who would and I know would enjoy driving one. Plus the Viper is one of the fast American production car so I don't think its engine is crappy.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I'm sorry that I've been self-pitying at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Joey D]

oh ok well hey I wouldn't mind seeing a 8.0 Japanese engine

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

BTW, how big is the Toyota TSO20 GT-One engine?

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by streetracer780
How is it that you call the OHV crappy? Hmm the Viper has a OHV and I do believe its one nice car...I could be wrong. While I'd never drive one there are many people who would and I know would enjoy driving one. Plus the Viper is one of the fast American production car so I don't think its engine is crappy.

It is indeed a great engine Joe. However, it is not as volumetrically efficient as a DOHC engine would be.
The OHV 5.0 Ford makes about 225 HP. The new DOHC 4.6 makes upwards of 300 HP.
If the Viper was as efficient as, say the Mazda RX-7, it would make upwards of 1000HP (instead of the "paltry" 500HP it generates now).
I'm not saying that it's a bad engine. I'm just saying that it could be more volumetrically efficient if it was a DOHC. Of course then it would be like the GRX of Speed Racer fame and a special gas would have to be administered to make someone brave enough(crazy enough) to drive it at ten-tenths.

 

[risingson77]

Yeah, the Viper "only" makes 500 BHP...with the phat torque band from idle to redline.

God, pushrods suck. :smilewink

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Smoke beltching machines.

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by risingson77
Yeah, the Viper "only" makes 500 BHP...with the phat torque band from idle to redline.

God, pushrods suck. :smilewink

There are times that I just can't resist using the sarcasm.

 

[driessie]

Originally posted by risingson77
F1 teams still run their V8s to 19,000 RPM.

In fact F1s use 3.0 V10 engines, because all other engines are forbidden (Ferrari and Toyota were developing V12s) and they only go around 18,500 in the actual race. They only put them at 19,000 (BMW record at Monza in 2002) for qualifying, because they would break too fast in race conditions.

Originally posted by The Vanishing Boy
BTW, how big is the Toyota TSO20 GT-One engine?

Toyota TS020 uses 3.6 twin turbo V8. This is also for Le Mans regulations as they only allow this or a 4.0 NA V8 for prototype class.

 

[risingson77]

Ah...I see. :thumbsup:

Still, they're DOHC designs....I think.

 

[f50]

the new viper make.(according to me)

300 lb-ft @ 1850 rpm.
344 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm.
382 lb-ft @ 3700 rpm.

that is enough for me.

 

[f50]

i think gm is coming back with a few OHV engines,they say "we make a few improvement to make it more efficient".

btw GM V-8 trucks (OHV) make more HP,but ford V-8 (DOCH) have more torque.

correct if i'm wrong please.

 

[Vasco]

Well i have seen a Lexus Soarer with a V-8 in it. :| I thought this was only for road cars with V-8s, not race cars?

 

[f50]

there is not lexus solara,the solara is toyota.(at least where i live)