Whats up with this new penalty system its absolutely ridiculous

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Boris353, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    Oh ya, these penalties REALLY keep things clean and only punish "bad drivers"



    Btw, the guy who hit me was B. I was in 5th because I was spun at the chicane by a different B driver.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  2. Koutch_Pro

    Koutch_Pro

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    Lol, that I don't have a clue about racing is an assumption, bigtime. Correct that I don't have much expierence with online racing. Maybe in real life my name is the stig, or Arie Luyendijk, Lewis Hannilton, or Matt.

    The reason I loose SR atm is because of the new algoritm, I don't care much about that or what you think about somebody.
    contact = punishment, reed back the post, the game is not human.

    I thought this thread would have been closed by now Op has had his answer?
     
  3. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    No penalty? Did you upload or link the wrong video? The guy in the Mercedes in that video gets two separate penalties after the two contacts (and the first looks a bit harsh on him; the second much less so).
     
  4. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    My mistake, you're right I missed that. I will correct that.

    The first looks like a 4 second and the second a 10. I got 8. That seems way out of whack to me.

    But, my point is why does the lead car get penalized almost equally when the universal rule is that the person behind is responsible for the safe pass? I made a safe, clean pass and I assumed the racing line. He tries to capitalize on my little traction loss and taps me (btw, I didn't feel that in the car) and then I get penalized again for being rear ended again while braking in a braking zone.

    I absolute do not understand how this system is trying to assign blame. I don't know where ever else is running these ideal races where only the folks in the wrong get penalized because this is the kind of stuff that happens to me almost daily.
     
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  5. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    Sorry, you did not give him plenty of room. It was his apex and you blocked his exit line ruining his exit speed. Exiting that turn he's allowed to edge you all the way to the last 3/4 car width of the race track's edge. You deserved the penalty and he did nothing wrong there. When you are running two wide on a turn and are on the outside, you are only obligated to a car width at the edge of the exit line.
     
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  6. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    On the video you posted, your car steps out on acceleration from the chicane and moves to the right, so he moves to the left to avoid, pass, or both. According to the radar, he then has his nose alongside you on the left right up to the point you move across left to hit the apex. As he's already there and can't really disappear, I'd call that one as being on you. But then I'd also call it a racing incident.

    I imagine his room would have then been filled with "WHY DID I GET FOUR SECONDS FOR THAT?!" - and you only got three - given that his demeanour then seems to change to "smash him out of the way at my next opportunity". For that second contact, he deservedly gets ten seconds, although I don't think your five second penalty was particularly kind or necessary.

    Aside from that not being a universal rule I'm particularly aware of - all cars have a responsibility to share the track and neither hit nor move to hit other cars - you can't apply real-life racing principles like that to GT Sport. GT Sport has its own rule set, and that includes the fact you might get a penalty in any car-to-car contact, regardless of whether it was your fault or not.
     
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  7. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Why is it too much to ask?
     
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  8. Voodoovaj

    Voodoovaj

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    And this has consistently been my issue since the change. Extremely minor contact that would have been ignored in the past now becomes a significant, almost defining moment in the race. My first contact, and sure I'll take that one for the sake of this discussion, was extremely minor. As you say. it's a racing incident that would like have been ignored by both of us. Instead, "*&%^&%&#&^&#&#&, I'll get you" and bang, I'm smashed at the next opportunity.

    I'm simply not seeing this sea change in behavior that I'm reading about.
     
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  9. cleanLX

    cleanLX

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    The first one appears to be for shutting the door, possibly not leaving a car width, when your opponent had his nose inside with a run...
    That's not very nice... :)
    Which probably made him mad, or, at least hurt his feeling, which, is silly, 'cause, doors get shut, deal with it, then, he extracts his revenge, which was totally out of control.

    EDIT to add, @Voodoovaj you posted while I was typing, agree, the first one probably could place blame on both drivers... I probably? would not have shut the door (heat of battle, maybe... hmm)... on on the other hand had I been your opponent and saw the door closing would have tappy-tapped the brake to avoid contact...

    So, the first one for me is a :shrug:
     
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  10. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    It was his apex and he took it. Unfortunately so slowly that the OP was able to get his nose up to the driver door, at which point he has just as much right to his track position as the other car. The OP left the entire track available to the inside car but the inside car forces him out onto the curbing. The algorithm calls that a penalty but I don't believe it's a fair or just penalty.
     
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  11. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    In what rule book is the trailing overlapping car entitled to block the middle of the track and the inside driver's exit line? Please show me.
     
  12. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    If I'd have committed rather than trying to slow up, I would have been fully alongside and would have got a faster exit, but even then he would force me wide. I was trying to avoid a much worse incident, where I would have been forced onto the grass. Plus, a 2 second penalty for that? I'm fine with a SR down for that sort of incident, not a time penalty. If that's the case, then the game, and you, are teaching me to go pedal to the metal and try to power round the outside of that turn, which wouldn't have gone well. Or to unpredictably and unusually brake heavily in the middle of the chicane and stay single file constantly. Plus, the game lied and said he also had a penalty, when he didn't as I saw after the race.
     
  13. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    And he would still be allowed to force you wide if you were along side him. Even side by side he only owes you a car width at the edge of the track. You can't get side by side and close off his exit line. It's against all of the rules that I've seen. The precedent here is the established racing line, which establishes predictable and expected behavior on his part. Technically, per F1 rules, since you had only an overlap you technically didn't have right of way to the exit line.

    "The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit." - F1 Metrics

    Scroll down to Part 7 here to see what I'm referring to.
    https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/
     
  14. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    The appropriate question would be, in what rule book is a penalty given out for incidental contact when a following driver gains overlap while negotiating a corner and in what rule book is a driver on the inside allowed to run a driver on the outside all the way onto the curbing on exit?

    This isn't F1, it's online racing. The position of all drivers on the circuit should be respected and, if someone gets alongside through normal and legitimate online racing tactics, in this case accurately assessing your opponents likelihood of an error and placing yourself in a position to capitalize without significant contact, you have an obligation to leave them sufficient room to negotiate the corner.
     
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  15. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    Again, in what rule book is the inside driver obligated to brake and ruin their exit for a trailing overlapping car? I've never heard of such a thing in any format of racing. At this point I would even take a citation from a bumper car manual.
     
  16. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    I never questioned the other drivers movements. It was very minor contact from racing. My complaints about this new penalty system aren't about that. As I said, I'm fine if it just gave a SR down.

    I'm questioning the fact that I get a 2 second penalty for it, plus the game incorrectly saying the other driver got the same penalty, when he didn't as I saw after.
     
  17. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    You deserved the penalty, you ruined the other driver's exit speed and his lap.

    As for the system lying about his penalty, I've never argued with you about the problems with that.
     
  18. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    ruined

    If that is me ruining the other driver, then I don't know what words you use for other incidents. The other driver clearly drove the racing line, exactly like he would if I wasn't there, and the contact was so minor that the speed wasn't affected. Now you're just exaggerating
     
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  19. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Your question is irrelevant, that's why I ignored it. There is no rule book for GTS online racing and this isn't open wheeled, F1 racing so cherry picking their rules is also irrelevant. If you want to look at rules specifically designed for online racing but not the official rules for GTS you can find them right here at GTP and I'm pretty sure they'd support my case. In fact, all the rules I've ever seen around online racing would support my case. In any case, I think most people would agree that the penalty was unjust and that mutual respect for each other's position on the track, when fairly won, leads to much better and cleaner online racing than defaulting to a rule book that is dozens and dozens of pages long, and designed for open wheeled real racing and not (mostly) sedan based virtual racing.
     
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  20. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    If I'm running a lap and you cut off my exit there, you're dropping my exit speed for that entire next sector. That's a 1 to 2 second drop in my lap time. Yes, you would be ruining my lap.
     
  21. cjr3559

    cjr3559 Premium

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    What I expect to see from S/S rated drivers is the ability to demonstrate exemplary race craft at all times. This means leaving margin for error or passing with patience and care, and not driving through people and jumping at the chance to overtake at the slightest error of someone ahead.

    From some of the videos I’ve seen, there’s better driving in the B-C-D DR ranks than A-S.

    The only issue I see with the new penalty system is knowing where to serve the penalty without creating havoc on the racing line. But then again, S/S drivers should be making absolute minimal contact with others. And keeping the car on the track without spins is a given.
     
  22. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    When we all decide to race in the JohnnyPenso 500 series then maybe your observation will matter. I've cited relevant rules and that's the best I can do here to defend my position. You've still failed to defend yours. I can't possibly imagine how racing could even occur if a trailing car was allowed to block the inside car's exit. That just seems totally bizarre to me.
     
  23. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    Holy hell what are you on, watch the video again. The other driver goes to the far left of the track just like normal. The other driver wasn't forced to take a different line because of me, wasn't forced more to the inside because of me etc. And even if the other driver was forced to not go as far to the left, you don't lose 1-2 seconds like that. You are exaggerating to no end.
     
  24. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Which he's perfectly entitled to if he gets along side you at the exit because, in this case because you made an error in the corner and ran into the other car, slowing your forward momentum. He capitalized in a perfectly legal and respectful manner, entirely without contact or the threat of it until the inside car ran him out at exit, but somehow you think that because you are on one side of the track you have an automatic right to the entire track? :lol:

    You've cherry picked a set of rules that bear no relation to this videogame whatsoever. I can do the same and it'll support my case. Neither set of rules applies to this game in any offical way but at least mine are designed for actual online racing so I'd argue that mine are far more relevant. However, you still wouldn't be convinced and would still just shout about the FIA rulebook so what's the point? Can you show me the part of the FIA rulebook that provides for a 2 second penalty for these exact circumstances?
     
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  25. djidane57

    djidane57

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    a 3000 DR loss for being disconnected are they goddamn serious?! even the game acknowledges it was a connection loss , not rage quitting
     
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  26. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    Legal? Where is it legal? By all of the rules I've read it was illegal and I've shared that with you. In the game, he was penalized so clearly it's illegal in the game as well.

    Under what rules was his cut off of the leading driver's exit legal? I'll take any rules just provide them.
     
  27. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    The exit speed on that turn establishes his pace for that entire sector. You know this.
     
  28. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    If exit speed is highly affected, and with a large straight after, then 1-2 seconds is possible, but:

    1) The exit speed clearly wasn't affected. He took the racing line, went to the left part of the track just like normal. My position didn't affect him.
    2) The straight after is very short, with the fast right and then the braking zone after. It isn't a long straight so momentum isn't even hugely important there (compared to the final corner at Dragon Trail).

    You know this.
     
  29. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    Fine, lets just say half a second to a second? I don't believe that you made your initial post to argue about time lost but you did effect his exit speed as he clearly scrubs it against you on the exit. The fact that he could steer back onto the line is irrelevant, as you ruined his opportunity to actually let his inertia take him to that point on the track.

    More fun rules that everyone seems to enjoy this time from WindingRoad for amateur drivers...

    "2. Cars side-by-side at corner entry
    Not every straight is long enough that passes, when done cleanly, are completed by the time cars reach the next corner. In fact, this is probably the most common type of passing situation in lower-powered classes. The result is that you have two cars side-by-side coming up to corner entry and at corner entry. This leads to unwritten corollaries to the standard rulebook statements:

    . At corner entry, if the overtaking car does not have its front axle past the leading car’s cockpit (A pillar on production cars, driver on formula cars and sports racers for easy visual reference), the overtaking car should adjust its speed to tuck in behind the leading car with minimal interruption to the leading car’s line.
    And:

    . At corner entry, when the overtaking car has its front axle past the cockpit of the leading car but its rear axle is behind the cockpit, the cars are considered side-by-side. Both cars should adjust their lines to avoid contact and provide room on the racing surface for the other car.
    And:

    . At corner entry, when the overtaken car has its front axle behind the cockpit of the overtaking car, the overtaken car should adjust his speed and tuck in behind the overtaking car.

    In short, when the passer isn’t ahead, he gives up the corner. When you’re side by side, continue racing until one car is clearly ahead (often at a subsequent corner). When the passer is ahead on corner entry, the formerly leading car accepts the pass."

    https://www.windingroad.com/articles/blogs/the-road-racers-guide-to-passing-etiquette/
     
  30. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    That's exactly what I did do.

    That's why the other car was still able to follow the racing line and go towards the kerb on the outside. I gave up the corner very early and was very light on my throttle, when normally I would be starting to accelerate, but instead I went from 74mph to 69mph (instead of accelerating).

    I clearly did give up the corner.