Which car would you take out to the 'Ring?

[Pharaoh]

I'd take an Audi R8 (if it makes it into the final game), or for a total fantasy run the Ferrari F2004.

 

[l33tc4k30fd00m]

Hmmm I shouldn't bore you all with what I want.

But anyway. Most of what I want to try are old 80's bangers. The more time goes by the more I feel this way.

I still have a weird connection with the AE86 Corolla Levin... Something about some sorry old underpowered RWD hatchback that turns me on I guess.

But don't get me wrong... There is plenty to try and I'm sure we will ALL be busy for a while. I even want to take the old American iron for a spin. American cars of the era are very well known for not being able to turn so... Taking one to the Ring should be a field trip of epic proportions!

Drunk again. Lock up your daughters and such...

 

[supra_luva209]

The Pink Vitz.






Na Id like to take out that BWM Lemans car(V12 LMR?) or hopfully the new JGTC 350Z that they now run in the 500 class, god that car looks nice!

 

[Sleek Stratos]

The Pink Vitz.

I forgot all about the Pitz. (I wonder if it will make it into GT4)

Here's a scary thought: The Ring being included in the Vitz Cup, 7 laps.

 

[Mr P510]

Easy and obvious.....Datsun P510,1600 Bluebird.

 

[Scaff]

I have seen the vids - and yeah your correct in everything you say about PGR2 - however i meant i know the course layout backwards , and no matter how the driving is in both games - the basic track layout will be the same .

Further i never said its all flat out , i said most of it is flat out , which from what i have seen of the ring in footage and games and video's seems pretty much true .

and if anyone wanna flame me , FINE , we will see when we go online

The Nurburgring has been a mini obsesion of mine for a good number of years, I have driven it once and have a number of friends who have also driven it.

The 'ring is not mostly flat out; using Jorg Muller's (BMW works driver) lap notes from an 8.22 lap in an M3 SMG the guide gears for corner break down as follows

2nd - 1%
3rd - 49%
4th - 25%
5th - 25%

As almost half the 'rings corners 3rd gear, its hardly mostly flat out.

I have attached a satellite map of the 'ring and telemtry from the Radical SR3T 7 min 19 sec run around the 'ring, the telemetry clearly show that the 'ring is a monster for testing brakes and accelleration (mid-range ability in particular) but far from mostly flat out.

PGR2 is a homage to the 'ring, nothing more. As has been stated before its to wide which opens up a large number of the chicanes, so they can be taken flat in PGR2 but not on an acurate model of the track. However, this is not the biggest problem with the PGR2 version of the 'ring. Its lack of the correct cambers angles is its major down fall and the main reason it can be taken so fast in the game. If GT4 gets them right and you take the wrong line or ride the wrong kerb, its hello to the armco and goodbye to a good lap time.

The Nurburgring is famous not just for its length, but its blind corners, alternative cambers and minimal run-off.

Given the level of accuracy that the GT4 version is reported to have, these things are going to catch people out.

I would suggest that anyone after good in-car footage start here

http://www.8200rpm.com/index.php?p=1&t=3&lang=en

Lots of 'ring videos

And for an extract of the Radical SR3 Turbo record breaking (road car - road tyres 7min 19 secs) lap head here

http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/gallery/index.php

Also worth getting is the DVD 'In-car 956@ in which Derek Bell takes a Rothmans Porsche 956 round the 'ring (6min 41 secs) and while damn fast its not flat out most of the way, its committed and smooth all the way.

PGR2 has started to p**s me off a lot with its version of the 'ring because it seems to be giving people the idea its a long, but easy track. Its totaly devalued one of the most difficult and challenging tracks in the world.

Border, it seems a bit bold to brag about how quick you will be from day one on a track you have only driven in PGR2 (i.e. not accurate) and with a game that has not yet been released.

None of us can say how quick we will be round the 'ring in GT4 yet.

Now if you want to practice the 'ring, get a copy of GPL and practice on that, I promise you won't think it can be taken mostly flat out afterwards.

 

[BAR-ZoNdA]

i wanna take the Pagani Zonda for a spin on Nurburgring...of course, i love that car *drools*

 

[Ev0]

Now if you want to practice the 'ring, get a copy of GPL and practice on that, I promise you won't think it can be taken mostly flat out afterwards.

Keep in mind all the cars in GPL weigh well under 1000kg, have 400+ hp engines, use tires that lasted more than an entire race weekend, and had virtually no downforce to keep all this pinned to the ground. GPL might be too much for some Gran Turismo racers, but if you want to learn the 'ring from some very leisurely laps in one of the game's F3 cars (which can still be a handful), then GPL is king.

 

[86midget]

An AE86, becasue the ring is bloody long and boodly scrary. And I know how to drive it.

 

[Border]

The Nurburgring has been a mini obsesion of mine for a good number of years, I have driven it once and have a number of friends who have also driven it.

The 'ring is not mostly flat out; using Jorg Muller's (BMW works driver) lap notes from an 8.22 lap in an M3 SMG the guide gears for corner break down as follows

2nd - 1%
3rd - 49%
4th - 25%
5th - 25%

As almost half the 'rings corners 3rd gear, its hardly mostly flat out.

I have attached a satellite map of the 'ring and telemtry from the Radical SR3T 7 min 19 sec run around the 'ring, the telemetry clearly show that the 'ring is a monster for testing brakes and accelleration (mid-range ability in particular) but far from mostly flat out.

PGR2 is a homage to the 'ring, nothing more. As has been stated before its to wide which opens up a large number of the chicanes, so they can be taken flat in PGR2 but not on an acurate model of the track. However, this is not the biggest problem with the PGR2 version of the 'ring. Its lack of the correct cambers angles is its major down fall and the main reason it can be taken so fast in the game. If GT4 gets them right and you take the wrong line or ride the wrong kerb, its hello to the armco and goodbye to a good lap time.

The Nurburgring is famous not just for its length, but its blind corners, alternative cambers and minimal run-off.

Given the level of accuracy that the GT4 version is reported to have, these things are going to catch people out.

I would suggest that anyone after good in-car footage start here

http://www.8200rpm.com/index.php?p=1&t=3&lang=en

Lots of 'ring videos

And for an extract of the Radical SR3 Turbo record breaking (road car - road tyres 7min 19 secs) lap head here

http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/gallery/index.php

Also worth getting is the DVD 'In-car 956@ in which Derek Bell takes a Rothmans Porsche 956 round the 'ring (6min 41 secs) and while damn fast its not flat out most of the way, its committed and smooth all the way.

PGR2 has started to p**s me off a lot with its version of the 'ring because it seems to be giving people the idea its a long, but easy track. Its totaly devalued one of the most difficult and challenging tracks in the world.

Border, it seems a bit bold to brag about how quick you will be from day one on a track you have only driven in PGR2 (i.e. not accurate) and with a game that has not yet been released.

None of us can say how quick we will be round the 'ring in GT4 yet.

Now if you want to practice the 'ring, get a copy of GPL and practice on that, I promise you won't think it can be taken mostly flat out afterwards.

Well.....

If you read the quote you added of mine - then you would see that i never said its all flat out , what i said is " most of it is flat out " ( by that i mean , your foot is planted , and doesnt necessarly mean you have to be in top gear !!!! )and that its not a brilliant recreation of the track , however ,the basic track layout is the same !! ,
Further to your quote , 49 % third gear corners , in track racing terms - a third gear corner is pretty fast and 49% is half of the corners !!!


thanks for your video links , although i have got enough of my own thanks , and i have seen in car footage on board ferrari's , subaru's , porsche's .
And further to this ,,,,
Did YOU know that the nissan skyline is the only production class car to lap the Ring in under 8 mins .suffice to say that if i am in a car like the cusco impreza , I WILL BE ABLE TO LAP THE RING IN UNDER 8 MINS .

So just in case anymore of you think you know me and my abilities on GT , wait till were online - and i'll show em too ya !!!!!!

 

[Flerbizky]

Well.....

<Snip>

So just in case anymore of you think you know me and my abilities on GT , wait till were online - and i'll show em too ya !!!!!!

You sure do repeat that a lot.. I suggest you join the WRS and start by proving yourself there - not "Wait till we're online".. It get's kinda tedious in the long run

FYI - I'm in the WRS (again) and I suck at GT3 - but I never claimed otherwise and you sure do...

 

[Flerbizky]

PGR2 has started to p**s me off a lot with its version of the 'ring because it seems to be giving people the idea its a long, but easy track.

Isn't that a MicroShaft trademark or something

Its totaly devalued one of the most difficult and challenging tracks in the world.

👍

 

[ZEE]

Personally, I love to do a lap in the Porsche Carrera GT.

 

[Scaff]

Well.....

If you read the quote you added of mine - then you would see that i never said its all flat out , what i said is " most of it is flat out " ( by that i mean , your foot is planted , and doesnt necessarly mean you have to be in top gear !!!! )and that its not a brilliant recreation of the track , however ,the basic track layout is the same !! ,
Further to your quote , 49 % third gear corners , in track racing terms - a third gear corner is pretty fast and 49% is half of the corners !!!


thanks for your video links , although i have got enough of my own thanks , and i have seen in car footage on board ferrari's , subaru's , porsche's .
And further to this ,,,,
Did YOU know that the nissan skyline is the only production class car to lap the Ring in under 8 mins .suffice to say that if i am in a car like the cusco impreza , I WILL BE ABLE TO LAP THE RING IN UNDER 8 MINS .

So just in case anymore of you think you know me and my abilities on GT , wait till were online - and i'll show em too ya !!!!!!

I never once in my post said flat out, I said 'mainly flat out'. The track notes indicate the correct gear for each corner, not that the corner can be taken at maximum revs (i.e. flat-out) in that gear. This is also a track guide for pro-drivers, here is a little exert about 'Bergwerk' a third gear corner.

'since this third gear bend takes you blind around an enormous promontory, so you don't see the exit until very late. Your main concern at the Bergwerk bend should be optimum acceleration: thanks to the positive camber, the driver can start accelerating again well before the apex. But be careful; if you accelerate too hard and too early, you will have to cope with nasty understeer and may have to release the throttle again at the exit because of a lack of space.'

This is not a description of a corner taken 'flat-out, mostly or otherwise. In fact the word used is Optimum, not maximum and notice the phrase 'can start accelerating again'.

My post also did not dispute that the 'basic' layout is the same, but that the lack of correcrt cambers and road width are the isssues I have with PGR2, and not surprisingly these are the very issues that make this corner tricky in a professional track guide.

Take a good look at the telemetry for the SR3T again this car hit the following high points on its lap

Ambient Temperature 34 Degrees
Tyres used - Dunlop Type R / Road legal tyre
50mph to 100mph = 4 seconds
70mph to 150mph = 12 seconds
2.10 Lateral G at 122mph through the Schwedenkreuz corner
147mph into Klostertal 1 corner
140mph before braking into Schwalben schwanz
160mph taken through the Schwedenkreuz corner
Braking forces of over 1.7 G into Bergwerg

Now taking this into account with the telemetry, even with the ability to corner at upto 2.1 lateral G the Radical is still not riding the rev-limiter (flat-out in that gear) on every corner.

To state it again I have driven the 'ring and PGR2's version is a homage, try and drive the real thing (or GT4's version - if it is as acurate as claimed) and you will lose control. I've driven the 'ring in real life, GPL and PGR2, have you?

As for the Skyline being the only production class car to lap the Ring in under 8 mins.

Radical SR3T 7.19
Porsche 911 RS 7.42
Porsche Carrera GT 7.40
Pagani Zonda S 7.44
Radical SR3 7.45
Porsche 911 GT2 (996) 7.46
Caterham R500 7.55
Porsche GT3 (996) 7.56
Honda NSX Type R 7.56

Now you may want to dispute some of these as not being production cars, but they are all road legal with the NSX being just as much of a production car as the Skyline.

 

[TurboLevin2NV]

Hmmm I shouldn't bore you all with what I want.

But anyway. Most of what I want to try are old 80's bangers. The more time goes by the more I feel this way.

I still have a weird connection with the AE86 Corolla Levin... Something about some sorry old underpowered RWD hatchback that turns me on I guess.

But don't get me wrong... There is plenty to try and I'm sure we will ALL be busy for a while. I even want to take the old American iron for a spin. American cars of the era are very well known for not being able to turn so... Taking one to the Ring should be a field trip of epic proportions!

Drunk again. Lock up your daughters and such...

Yeah ! RIGHT ON!!!! Levin all the way! Er, except, before going out to the 'Ring in one of those Panda AE86, you'd need an LSD, some fatter tires (stock ones are wheelbarrow tires), and SOMETHING to get you down those straights. I hardly think that even the sweet 4A-GE produces anough power to get you around the Nurburgring in TEN minutes. Hm.....if I could engine swap in the game for a TRD Group A AE101......*drool*. GRRRR They better drop the Evo III into the game or I'm gonna be royally pissed.

 

[neanderthal]

border.
all bark. i guess we have to wait for the bite dont we.
im guessing since you dont have your license that you're young. i'll put this one down to the folly of youth.

i will say it again. driving the ring in a video is not the same as the real thing. and while this thread is about driving in a game, the simulation aspect is much higher in GT than in any other console game. hence my alluding to the 8 minute times of racecar drivers as being far fetched for most.
anyone can get 8 minutes in a racecar. those LMPs can haul, brake and corner. i havent played GT in months, have never driven at the 'ring, but im guessing i could do 8 minutes in an audi R8 within 5 laps. but thats a game. IRL i wouldnt do anything near 10 minutes.

 

[TurboLevin2NV]

*sigh* can't we all get along? I have an idea! A group hug , and then we all go out to the 'Ring at the same time and have like a 100 car race. There's the "public" traffic for ya

 

[RouWa]

Porsche Carrera GT 7.40

Testdriver Walther Röhrl didn´t push the GT to the limit. The car could do better.

 

[ruf_rgt]

Fully Tuned (1000hp+) Ruf RGT
Or one of the JGTC/LM NSX's

 

[Martinmaxx]

Testdriver Walther Röhrl didn´t push the GT to the limit. The car could do better.

Walter Rohrl always drives around the Nürburgring at the limit. He is a true racing driver. He has driven 600hp Gr. B Audis, 800hp IMSA Audis, GT1 Porsches. He developed the 911 GT3, GT2 and the GT. He told some journalist that for him, the GT felt as an extension of his body. Why would you asume that a Porsche timed lap is conservative??

I remember reading a magazine (I believe it was EVO) and they told a funny story about Mr. Rorhl : when this journalist was readying himself for a passenger lap around the ´Ring with W. Rohrl, he asked to a Porsche´s PR lady if they were timing the laps, and she answered "don´t worry, every lap with Mr. Rohrl is a timed lap".

It is not very easy the get below 7.40 for a lap on road tires, with little downforce (compared with a race-car) and with more than 1300 kg. The same happens in Tsukuba : It is very difficult for a road car to get under the minute. Only highly tuned cars such as the HKS Evo VIII can achieve 55second laps.

In the August edition of Best Motoring, Gansan tested the Carrera GT in Suzuka, and managed a 2min 28sec lap. It was the first time Gansan tested the GT, and it was evident that he was very conservative, but that proves that the GT is not that easy to drive at the limit. For reference, the first NSX-R did it in 2min 34sec, the NSX Type S-Zero in 2min 32sec and the new NSX-R does it in 2min 29sec. A Ferrari F50 did it in 2min 26sec.

 

[Border]

Right...........

Listen up and listen good ........

I have said that PGR2 isnt a true representation of the RING , OK - -- YA WITH ME !

Also , i have said that in real life , i coulnd't do a lap around the ring in under 8mins , i havent got the skills or nuts for it !!! - STILL WITH ME !!!!!!!

HOWEVER - i will bet anyone of you , that given the time i have put into GRAN TURISMO 1,2,3, & prologue , that i WILL be able to go sub 8 mins , in 10 laps !!!!
and i know this - because i know the track layout very well and i am very confident in my skills on GT .if any of you wish to put me to a test , i am more than willing to prove you wrong when GT finally goes online .

As for the skyline being the only car ...... why dont you read the post !!!!!!!!!
I said its the only car " IN ITS CLASS " that can do a sub 8 min ......and that came from top gear , so you tellin me JEREMY CLARKSON is wrong too !!!!!!!!!!!!! - thats a brave statement .

Unfortunately for you that doesnt include any of the cars you have listed ......OK !!! - we clear on that .

Also , i have seen loads n loads of video's of the RING ( including in car footage ) , played many games including GPL , and seen hours of footage of track days @ the RING . And ok flat out was a loose term , but it was meant that alot of the RING is fast and foot to the floor .and a good number of the corners can be taken " flat out "

you all seem to know everything about laps @ the ring and all talk like your NIGEL MANSELL , so please quit with the statistics , they are real life stats , we are talkin about a GAME , and wether you like it or not , no matter how much PD try n make the game like real life , it will never be even close , because it cannot instill fear into the player , as would be in real life .
I will push the car to its limits and beyond in a game , no way would i in real life !!!!

NOW that we have cleared all that up........ ( that im not a know it all , and i dont think i am jenson button / walter rahl )

Please understand that just cause you may not feel confident in your abilities as a gran turismo player , doesnt mean im not capable OK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO lets leave it at that OK........

 

[Border]

Oh and by the way SCAFF , you come from swindon same as me , if you wanna hook up n let me whip ya arse , just let me know m8

 

[TurboLevin2NV]

Just because we don't feel confident in our abilities? Well excuse me for living. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason. None of us were acting like know it alls. And it would've been much clearer to us had you said "flat out as in foot to the floor", EARLIER.

And "sub 8 mins.". I'm glad you feel confident in your skills , but you say it as if you're the only one capable of it. Makes it sound like the rest of us can't match up to your skill. Your not the only one studying the 'Ring. That beloved track has millions of fans worldwide. I can garuntee, that when GT4 comes out, sub 8 minutes will be something many can accomplish in just as many laps, give or take a few. Not every, MANY.

The only reason I questioned you earlier is because it sounded as if you were boasting, saying "in ten laps....etc.etc." Sorry for that misunderstanding, I'm not looking to make enemies here.

 

[Martinmaxx]

you all seem to know everything about laps @ the ring and all talk like your NIGEL MANSELL , so please quit with the statistics , they are real life stats , we are talkin about a GAME , and wether you like it or not , no matter how much PD try n make the game like real life , it will never be even close , because it cannot instill fear into the player , as would be in real life .
I will push the car to its limits and beyond in a game , no way would i in real life !!!!

Why shouldn´t we compare real life times vs GT times? Even PD did this when they informed that Nissan´s top test driver GT vs RL times were 5secs apart in the R34 GTR on Nürburgring. Eventhough the "fear factor" cannot be represented in a game, the actual laps are similar. That is why PD decided to include several "real" track in GT.

NOW that we have cleared all that up........ ( that im not a know it all , and i dont think i am jenson button / walter rahl )

After your comments, no one will believe you are a "know it all", or a "Jenson Button". That is really evident!!

 

[TurboLevin2NV]

Oh, and one more thing. Even Kazunori said not to expect too much out of online because it wont be the same as single player. Online gaming will have problems and bugs for as long as it lives. I'm sure it'll be better than other online racing games in terms of quality, but the infinite variables of say, a person's internet connection, can always make things different. If you've played Auto Moddelista or Midnight Club 2, or hell even NFSU, you see the cars skip around, jump in front of you, there are glitches, etc. You seem like a person I'd want to race with, as FRIENDS . If all goes well with GT4's online, and there aren't too many problems to make it unfun, I'll be looking for you. Remember, I'm the one with the Panda Turbo Levin .

 

[Border]

Just because we don't feel confident in our abilities? Well excuse me for living. I'm pretty sure that's not the reason. None of us were acting like know it alls. And it would've been much clearer to us had you said "flat out as in foot to the floor", EARLIER.

And "sub 8 mins.". I'm glad you feel confident in your skills , but you say it as if you're the only one capable of it. Makes it sound like the rest of us can't match up to your skill. Your not the only one studying the 'Ring. That beloved track has millions of fans worldwide. I can garuntee, that when GT4 comes out, sub 8 minutes will be something many can accomplish in just as many laps, give or take a few. Not every, MANY.

The only reason I questioned you earlier is because it sounded as if you were boasting, saying "in ten laps....etc.etc." Sorry for that misunderstanding, I'm not looking to make enemies here.

Neither am i m8 ,,,

just annoys me when peeps read half a thread then , start flamin - and just for the record i dont think im the only one - or i hope not , otherwise who am i gonna race - lol.....
But at the end of the day its just a game and its supposed to be played for fun..
too many peeps getting to serious about it... chill out all !!!

 

[Border]

Why shouldn´t we compare real life times vs GT times? Even PD did this when they informed that Nissan´s top test driver GT vs RL times were 5secs apart in the R34 GTR on Nürburgring. Eventhough the "fear factor" cannot be represented in a game, the actual laps are similar. That is why PD decided to include several "real" track in GT.



After your comments, no one will believe you are a "know it all", or a "Jenson Button". That is really evident!!

you shouldnt compare a game and real life . because if you hit the wall in a game @ 150mph you dont die !!!!!!

that tends to have an effect in real life ---

and also think what ya like about me i dont give a toss , you dont know me and never will -so keep ya oppinions about me to yaself n stick to the thread OK !!!!

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

The car would like to drive on the Nurb in GT4:
<-----1992 Acura Integra GS-R (stock version, not the one on my avatar)

If the car is not in:
Well...Every car from the lowest HP to the Highly HP super car (all production spec)

Real Life-> 2004 Honda S2000 [AP2]

 

[Flerbizky]

you shouldnt compare a game and real life . because if you hit the wall in a game @ 150mph you dont die !!!!!!

No - but should you, somehow, manage to complete a lap on the edge, and NOT hit the wall with 150Mph, you'll end up with a lap time 5 seconds off real life... It's close enough for me to compare...

and also think what ya like about me i dont give a toss , you dont know me and never will -so keep ya oppinions about me to yaself n stick to the thread OK !!!!

hehe.. anyone for Anger Management class ?..

 

[Flerbizky]

Please understand that just cause you may not feel confident in your abilities as a gran turismo player , doesnt mean im not capable OK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This quote should be made sticky or something

It's actually THAT good 👍