Why are the AI so bad even at 100%!!!

Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by Alex holloway, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. Alex holloway

    Alex holloway

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    Is there any new patches for the AI does anyone know?? Because it seems the more you stay away from them or give them room the more your gonna die!
     
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  2. CHEN255

    CHEN255

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    And yet my experience is so different. I think this is some of the best AI out there.
     
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  3. CarreraGT

    CarreraGT

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    Agreed. Aside from the occasional first corner blunder, the AI is better than any racing game I have played.

    The upcoming patch will supposedly address the first corner issues on most tracks
     
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  4. thegt500

    thegt500

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    I find the AI in pCARS excellent on the whole. Admittedly my only real point of reference is the AI in GT6 which as we all know, is terrible as they will not move off their line no matter what !
    The pCARS AI will actually try and dive out of the way of you in most circumstances, but sometimes they will make a mistake which IMO makes for a better experience as the AI isn't rigidly scripted so each race is unique, even if you re-run the same race.
    It's a lot like an online room where there is a differing amount of skill levels where different players will take different lines into corners, but without the deliberate ramming that usually happens online !
     
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  5. Yellowbeard

    Yellowbeard

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    I tried the ford escort mk1 for the first time in a historic touring car race last night, after spending about 45 minutes practicing solo I decided my laptime was possibly good enough to race ..... quick 10 mins qualy, I knew it was probably pointless going for longer as my time playing is pretty short so I thought I'd just try to fight through the pack ... qualy in last place :nervous:

    Set for a 10 lap race, I played for an hour and never finished a race once, could get some good starts (even getting up to first before the first corner at times) but then I'd make a small mistake .... or a big one :p ... and just get knocked out of the way and then battered by the rest of the pack getting past :(
    Do I blame the AI ? Nope, not a bit, I think Cadwell Park was probably a bad choice of track for the first outing 'cos it's so narrow and some of those historic touring cars are HUGE monsters :eek: ......
    Think I'll be trying it again tonight :lol:

    .... My point ?

    .... It's not always the AI's fault :sly:
     
  6. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    The AI can be great, and they can be complete spuds too. I've been on the inside of an AI car slowly going past on a straight, only to have them swerve violently into the side of me and flip my car (formula rookie), completely ruining my race. I've also had them rear end me when I stayed on my line, and braked quite late. I've had them plow into the side of me going for insane dive bombs, and I've seen one go for a divebomb and slammed my brakes on and turned to avoid him, and as expected he didn't even make the turn, he went out into the gravel and into the wall lol.

    On the flip side, I've raced three wide with AI with no contact, made some aggressive passes stick, forcing the AI to hold the outside line, which they did. I've chased down AI for lap after lap, knowing I'm faster, but not finding a clean opportunity to pass because they've defended too well into corners that are good for passing, and taken fast lines through corners that aren't.

    I think they can be brilliant a lot of the time, but sometimes it seems they just forget you're there completely and you can go from having a great close wheel to wheel battle with them cleanly, to suddenly they just drive right into you like you're not there. I'm sure SMS will continue to improve the AI consistency, as they already improved them a bit in the last patch, and seem to have done so for the upcoming patch too. The game will only get better! :)
     
  7. David Talle

    David Talle

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    The AI is sometime good, sometime unacceptable. And not only in T1.
    From my experience I think it really depends on the track. The AI have no sense of risks, and in open-wheel it makes it barely enjoyable.

    I've gathered some clips I had on my PS4 regarding the AI and made a none-exhaustive compilation of shine and shame situations. I usually play at 90% difficulty.
    In the pile there are some funny but others that are totally unacceptable IMO.

     
  8. Awong124

    Awong124

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  9. David Talle

    David Talle

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    That's exactly what I did to a :censored: online when I lost my calm once :D But that's another problem...
     
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  10. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    I agree with this pretty much. Although I don't think open wheelers are barely enjoyable, as that's what I've raced in mostly against AI, and sometimes they race so well against me. I do think it's more of a track based problem though, and not just the AI having absolutely no spatial awareness.
    For example, I was at Sakitto in formula junior, and the AI was shocking in some of the corners, and fine in others, but at times they would swerve quite violently, even if I was right beside them. They also had a tendency to take the last chicane exactly the same line and speed no matter where I was, which made attempting a pass there a big no no for me lol.
    The flip side of that is last night, playing formula gulf, I had multiple wheel to wheel battles with AIs around the Dubai GP circuit. They behaved very very well there, always yielding to me when I had track position. One AI was slipstreaming me down the long back straight, and I covered the inside line into the braking zone, and I was surprised to see him switch back to the outside, go deeper under brakes than usual, and switch back to the inside on exit. Due to my compromised line on entry, I used all the track on exit, and his tactics got him alongside me, with a better run due to his deeper line. He sat right alongside, on the outside of the next corner, and when we were getting toward the corner exit kerb, I was slightly ahead, so he yielded. That was literally perfect racing etiquette. Observing the rules, and attempting alternate lines to try for an overtake.

    I also play at 90% most of the time (some series' require 100% AI, some require 80% AI, at my skill level).
     
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  11. David Talle

    David Talle

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    The problem is mainly in Formula B and Formula A, I don't know if you raced much in these already. Otherwise I don't have much complains in inferior categories (not more than in GT), except on few occasions like that awesome dive bomb at 6:43 on my video. I was upset when it happened but now it makes me laugh.
    But I quit playing F.B and F.A in single player modes.

    AI is also terrible in traffic and therefore in multiclass racing. I've stated it several time in the forums but it is really annoying to be stuck behind an LMP2 or even P1 incapable of passing a GT4 on a straight...
    And they must do something about corner cutting. Today again I was passed by a car off track who rammed me when rejoining on corner exit and there's nothing you can do. It's absolutely unfair and it makes me want to abort the race (well I didn't because it was a 4h race :lol:).
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
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  12. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    Yeah I agree with you that there are improvements badly needed. It's more a consistency issue for me though. I have watched AIs passing each other a lot, but then other times they seem held up for some reason. I have no idea why they are so inconsistent, as like your video suggests, when they work as they're meant to, it's the best AI ever, but when they don't it's very frustrating.

    I haven't gotten to FB or FA in career yet, as my game data corrupted in FR the first time (doing zero to hero), and since I started again I spent a lot of time away from the game, playing other games, and have only been getting back into it recently, and just got up to FC (I back my save up to ext hdd every time I quit the game now lol). I do all races at 100% distance too, so it takes a while to progress.

    I've only done one race in FA, and that was a quick race at Monza, and while they were a bit mental on the first lap, I found them pretty good once I learned to avoid the carnage on lap 1. I can definitely see how Monaco would be a pain in the rear end, because there's no escaping the madness there. Not looking forward to racing there in open wheelers.

    I'm an open wheeler fanatic though, so I still plan to do the zero to hero via every open wheel formula, then going from FA to LMP1 to finish it.
     
  13. GumShoe

    GumShoe

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    From the 2.0 patch notes:

    Code:
    * Slowed down the AI opponents in the rain when using racing tyres, to make racing against them better balanced.
    * Adjusted the AI tyre wear rate to better match the player’s tyre wear rate.
    * Improvements to AI navigation to lessen collisions during cramped race starts, improve detection of other cars during cornering, and improve clean overtaking
    * Improved the AI pitting logic during practice and qualifying so that the AI cars run more realistic stints before pitting.
    * Reworked the AI’s fuelling logic during qualifying sessions where no refuelling is allowed, so that they don’t always fill up the fuel tanks and negatively impact their qualifying ability. The AI will now deliver far more competitive lap times during qualifying.
    * Fixed an issue where the AI would set impossible lap times during races with pit stops.
    * The AI will now pit as soon as possible when low on fuel to prevent them running out of fuel and retiring from the race.
    * Fixed an issue where at times some AI drivers in a race would use much higher skill levels than the rest of the field.
    * Fixed an issue that prevented the AI from pitting within the final 3 laps of a race
    * Further tweaked the AI ability in wet races to more closely match the player car’s ability in the wet
    * Improved the AI’s efficiency in pit timing when needing to change tyres due to weather conditions.
    
    Enjoy :)
     
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  14. Alex holloway

    Alex holloway

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    W
    What would you recommend the A.I level for FB?
     
  15. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    Hey, you're probably better off asking @David Talle as he's raced the FB, and I haven't. As I said in my last post, I'm up to FC in career, and so far I've been fine using 90% as a benchmark, and altering that to 100% if I find it too easy, or 80% if I find them a bit too crazy. 90% is usually quick enough, but civilised enough. If they are just way too slow, up them to 100%, but if they are just too aggressive at 90% try dropping them to 80%. At 80% they may be a bit on the slow side, but they'll behave themselves more often.
     
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  16. David Talle

    David Talle

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    I always play at 90% in career mode. I don't think their behavior changes a lot so as Mike said it's up to you to adjust the difficulty to your pace and the track (how you perform and how AI performs).

    For instance the AI is very slow in Monaco, I had like 40s gap to second half way in the main race. On other tracks I fight for podium and sometime I'm glad to be in the points zone, the AI is inconsistent from track to track (so am I probably :D).

    As I couldn't get used to the AI behavior in open-wheel I'm glad I picked the Endurance way for my Zero to Hero career :dopey:
     
  17. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    The PCars AI's at 100% are great, so much more fun than chasing the GT rabbit's. Best part they don't send nasty grams after you pay them back, lol.

     
  18. David Talle

    David Talle

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    So that move at 2:45 is great ? In a Formula A you'd have lost more positions if not the whole race ! :indiff:

    There's no AI in GT6 it's almost pointless comparing, in GT6 you always start from the back how can you win if there actually was an AI ?
    And in GRID Autosport the AI was pretty good and didn't cheat as much as in pCARS !

    Don't get me wrong the AI has its moments but those (common) cheaty moves kinda ruin the whole thing, at least it balances good things back, it's not a great AI it's only decent because of the (big) flaws IMO.
     
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  19. psychoazubi

    psychoazubi

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    Well that move shows that the AI sometimes miscalculates what to do. He had to react to the car in front of him which also wanted to overtake. A perfect AI does not drive one perfect lap after another. They should sometimes to a Maldonado-move
     
  20. David Talle

    David Talle

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    Except Maldonado receives penalties (well maybe not every time :D).

    As I said in an open-wheel, your car would've spun and/or flip, had your suspension survived to the contact. And the AI would've get away with that.
    It's not my problem if they both have a (hazardous) go I have the racing line period. And sometime a car forces its way harder than in the video despite the fact he's the only one following you.

    Again I wouldn't complain if it was pretty occasional but it's the norm in AI behavior currently.
    I understand it's pretty hard to give a spark of common sense to a machine but I can't say the AI is amazingly good in its current state.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
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  21. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    To me they are great because at 100% they are far more preditable during braking and acceleration. At a lower number they are all over the place IMHO. Do they make mistakes at 100%? Sure they do but, so does everyone else at times and I know there is nothing personal behind it when it is an AI, ;)

    If you race them clean they do seem to be less inclined to ram and make crazy moves. I like at 100% they try to get around you and not just get close and back off. Make a mistake and they go for it. Going to be a fun game when the bugs get worked out.



     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
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  22. David Talle

    David Talle

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    Don't get me wrong I never said you couldn't race them ! Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered playing 70h offline ! If you think the AI is perfectly fine it's good for you, I wish I could feel the same, really.

    PS: AI race quality is also dependent of the place and Road America is far from being the worst. ;)
     
  23. WhoosierGirl

    WhoosierGirl

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    I don't think they are perfect but, compared to the only other racing game I have played GT5/6 I'm happy enough with them. I have been ran over, rammed and pushed off into the wall by magic glue effect in this game also so I do understand what you mean. There sre so many problems with the game I'm trying to find a little bit of positive, lol.

    I use short sprint races to learn tracks, Road America just happen to be one I made videos of. Most tracks on PC are new to me so I'm sure I will find where the AI is awful soon enough.
     
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  24. Awong124

    Awong124

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    While I think the AI is good in the sense that they are at least fast, they are not particularly good in other areas. They are far too dirty. And while their pace can be good, it's artificial. The AI uses a simplified physics model and can do things that are physically impossible for the player. They can brake impossibly later, they don't get affected by tire temperatures, and the don't get slowed down when running off track. You can tell how unnatural their physics are when you simulate a session and watch the AI drive your car.

    In terms of AI, Codemasters AI is far superior. In GRID AS and the F1 games they can race aggressive, but still super clean. They even take defensive lines if they know you're behind them, I've never seen the AI do that properly in PCARS. In GRID AS the AI's aggressiveness even changes depending on what cars you're racing. They're willing to do a little rubbing in Touring Cars while being very reluctant to make contact in Open Wheel. Most important of all, they never do anything that's obviously impossible for the player. The major flaws they have is inconsistent pace in the wet (same as PCARS), and they seem to be impossibly good at conserving tires in F1 2013/14. And pretty much anything is better than the garbage in the GT series.

    That being said, the AI in PCARS is still decently fun to race against, just very frustrating at times. It would be great if they can hire the guys from Codemasters to program their AI. PCARS physics with CM AI would be my dream game.
     
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  25. Miaz

    Miaz

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    After reading this I was temped to go to steam and get myself a copy of GRID AS.
    I dont seem to be able to get much online multi player where I live, so Good AI is a godsend.

    So anyway before buying I thought i would read some reviews.
    Very common comment people are making is the AI is pretty crap.
    This about sums is up>

    " They are way too aggressive, if you are on the racing line and ahead of them, they will hit you every time to put themselves on the racing line, often taking you out.

    It is a robotic AI, not so much a 'real racing' AI, but you have flashback, and once you become aware of how the AI drives and corners, you can work with it.
    It's not so bad as to become a real problem, plus as with all racing games, you can ALWAYS OUTBRAKE THE AI.
    I would love to find a racing game one day, where the AI throws caution to the wind and overtakes under brakes more aggressively than a human can. As with GRID Autosport, like most other racing games, the game is won and lost in the corners, and who can outbrake the best.

    Once day, a racing game will realise this - and adjust to the way a human drives - or at least, combat outbraking by outmanoevering or using [prediction, as a real human racer does."
    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014407530/recommended/255220/
     
  26. Awong124

    Awong124

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    I don't know, I thought it was good. But I haven't played the game in a while, so maybe my memory is off. The AI is more aggressive with closed wheel cars, because they can take some abuse. In open wheel, they'll rarely make contact with you if you drive like a sane person. In the F1 games, the AI almost never hits you.
     
  27. RAVELLRON

    RAVELLRON

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    ai is fantastic but in Snetterton fist turn is too slow.
     
  28. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    As much as I like the Pcars AI, it is still incredibly inconsistent. Some disciplines I have to race with them at 90% to have a good, close race, and the rest I have them at 100%, with some disciplines being way too easy even at 100%.

    Here's a good example of a discipline with way too easy AI. They're still crazy, and you have to have your wits about you to avoid them at times, but their pace is so weak for max AI level. This race is a full on GT style rolling start in last place, with the difference being I'm up against 40 100% AI opponents, and only had 5 laps to try to win from last.

     
  29. RAVELLRON

    RAVELLRON

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    667
    Ai in Kart category is slow, will be better in other class trust me :asd:
     
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  30. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

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    I've got over 200 hours in Pcars mate, I know which categories the AI are slow in, and it's not just Karts, trust me.