Will PD be reviewing laps?

[SohnVonStig]

Whatever happened to cheating just being, you know, wrong? I guess alot of people subscribe to the Barry Bonds school of ethics and morality.

That's an awful comparison. What bonds did was not within the rules. He BROKE the rules. Pushing things to the limit of what we are allowed is what's supposed to happen. Pushing beyond that is is wrong (and hence penalized).

There is a huge prize on the line so winning is paramount to many people. In fact I'd say that the majority of people who got this far would love to win. However, those who really want it will do anything to get it. (Man that sounds terrible, but it really isn't, it's just human nature)

 

[jaysvw]

you want a cookie?

Congratulations on a truly clever response. 👍

Pushing things to the limit of what we are allowed is what's supposed to happen. Pushing beyond that is is wrong (and hence penalized).

You are trying too hard to reason it out. It's cheating, plain and simple. It's taking advantage of a glitch and just because PD isn't all like "ZOMG NOOOOO", doesn't have anything to do with "pushing things to the limit". For what it's worth, much of what Bonds was taking at the time was not explicitly illegal. He was merely exploiting a loophole. Sound familiar?

 

[niky]

Unfortunately, unless PD close the loopholes by making any and all off-track areas verboten, then you will need to perform the shortcuts to get in.

At least if all players can review the top laps, the guys who did it have no inherent advantage from using the shortcuts, because everyone else can use them.

 

[Seankf1105]

Congratulations on a truly clever response. 👍



You are trying too hard to reason it out. It's cheating, plain and simple. It's taking advantage of a glitch and just because PD isn't all like "ZOMG NOOOOO", doesn't have anything to do with "pushing things to the limit". For what it's worth, much of what Bonds was taking at the time was not explicitly illegal. He was merely exploiting a loophole. Sound familiar?

Who ever said it was a glitch? Link please? For all we know PD and the organizers could have put these things in here intentionally to either find drivers who will learn and adapt 100% to every legal advantage possible; drivers who will just get on with it instead of hesitating/questioning the morality of any given situation that is within the boundries of the rules; and/or because they wanted to spice things up a bit.

 

[Ghoa$t]

Congratulations on a truly clever response. 👍

Wasn't trying to be clever really, just wondering what are you trying to accomplish with your moral parading. It comes down to two things, you exploit (knowing that there might be consequences) and win a prize or you play it safe just to be guaranteed a spot in the second round. The issue has already been argued to hell and back in other threads. It all boils down to everyone having different views on the subject. You're not gonna change anyone's minds, you're just beating on a dead horse.

And there is no "glitch" in the system, if they really didn't want you to touch the grass they would have set the grip conditions to "real".

 

[GT Motion]

Who ever said it was a glitch? Link please? For all we know PD and the organizers could have put these things in here intentionally to either find drivers who will learn and adapt 100% to every legal advantage possible; drivers who will just get on with it instead of hesitating/questioning the morality of any given situation that is within the boundries of the rules; and/or because they wanted to spice things up a bit.

Ok, now you are stretching it, I really doubt PD intentionally put a grass line in the competition just to see which drivers would find it and adapt, that is just ridiculous. On my fast lap I didn't use the grass, but I did use pit exit, however I don't know how to do it right and I always tap the wall and lose speed so I am not sure how much it actually helped on that lap.

 

[SohnVonStig]

You are trying too hard to reason it out. It's cheating, plain and simple. It's taking advantage of a glitch and just because PD isn't all like "ZOMG NOOOOO", doesn't have anything to do with "pushing things to the limit". For what it's worth, much of what Bonds was taking at the time was not explicitly illegal. He was merely exploiting a loophole. Sound familiar?

Haha, no I am not. It's definitely not a glitch, it's just the penalty system. You'll notice that you are NEVER penalized for running wide out of a corner. The only time you are penalized is if you are inside of the corner and taking a "shortcut."
It is completely pushing things to the limit. I'm not referring to pushing the car to the limit. I'm talking about doing everything that is allowed within the rules.
Noone is breaking the rules or even bending them so please stop your moral tirade.

 

[Forcednduckshn]

I hate when people bitch about the realism of this game and the whole thing with going off in to the grass. Guess what? This isn't real life. It's not a perfect driving simulation. It's a GAME. I hate that you have to do it, and I don't agree with it - but it's not cheating, it's doing everything within the confines of legality to go as fast as possible. I race in real life, so I can tell you this with some credibility - you can be the best sim driver in the world, and suck in real life. I mean that, I've seen it first hand with amazing GT4 drivers that struggle pretty bad in go karts or autoX. You can be the best real life driver - and suck in a simulation. I've seen videos - Sebastien Loeb in one case - who was HORRIFIC in a driving simulator. The fact is, at the end of the day, this is a game and competition which evaluates WHO THE BEST GT5 DRIVER is- nothing more, nothing less. Only when the top 16 go to Silverstone will we find out who the best REAL LIFE drivers are out of that top 16. There are many drivers (I know without question) that will not make Silverstone that will be faster by a long shot over the majority of drivers that actually go to Silverstone, simply because they don't have the Sim driving expertise that some of the "career sim drivers" have. Some people will flat-out suck in Silverstone, and I mean they will literally have no business being there. Don't believe me? View the videos documenting the previous GT Academy. If you have never raced in real life, you really have no idea just how much more difficult it is - it's a completely different skill set than Sim driving. To each it's own, and I have nothing but respect for the awesome Sim Drivers - but it's a whole new ballgame when it's REAL.

Bottom-line: Do what you need to do to win, by stretching the rules as much as possible. Noones safety is at stake. If you want the chance of a lifetime to pursue your dream of being a real race car driver, or even networking with people in motorsport that could get you a job involved with racing, or even just the amazing, life-long and impacting experience that the GT Academy would provide, then you are going to find a way, or at least do everything in your power to get there.

Would really love to get Jordan Tresson's or Lucas Ordonez's opinion on this issue....

Cheers,

Nick

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

That's an awful comparison. What bonds did was not within the rules. He BROKE the rules. Pushing things to the limit of what we are allowed is what's supposed to happen. Pushing beyond that is is wrong (and hence penalized).

Actually, it's a perfect comparison. Because technically, steroids were NOT against the rules of baseball. But rather against the overall law of the country. Much like how this grass cut is technically not against the rules of the game, but is seen as cheating by the larger society of sim racers.

 

[SohnVonStig]

Actually, it's a perfect comparison. Because technically, steroids were NOT against the rules of baseball. But rather against the overall law of the country. Much like how this grass cut is technically not against the rules of the game, but is seen as cheating by the larger society of sim racers.

Last time I checked:
US Legal system > MLB Rules
Larger society of sim racers? < PD's penalty system

Because, believe it or not, this is PD's game so they get to govern the rules not the "larger society of sim racers."

I would be thrilled if PD made a game(simulator) exactly the way I wanted but unfortunately thats not the case
Look, I don't think that swinging wide into the grass should be allowed, I'm just saying that since it is, the people who want to win and need that extra tenth or two would do it.
However, since round 1 is OVER. I think we should all MOVE ON and hope that there isn't a gap in the penalty system in round 2.

 

[Tommy_861]

I hate when people bitch about the realism of this game and the whole thing with going off in to the grass. Guess what? This isn't real life. It's not a perfect driving simulation. It's a GAME. I hate that you have to do it, and I don't agree with it - but it's not cheating, it's doing everything within the confines of legality to go as fast as possible. I race in real life, so I can tell you this with some credibility - you can be the best sim driver in the world, and suck in real life. I mean that, I've seen it first hand with amazing GT4 drivers that struggle pretty bad in go karts or autoX. You can be the best real life driver - and suck in a simulation. I've seen videos - Sebastien Loeb in one case - who was HORRIFIC in a driving simulator. The fact is, at the end of the day, this is a game and competition which evaluates WHO THE BEST GT5 DRIVER is- nothing more, nothing less. Only when the top 16 go to Silverstone will we find out who the best REAL LIFE drivers are out of that top 16. There are many drivers (I know without question) that will not make Silverstone that will be faster by a long shot over the majority of drivers that actually go to Silverstone, simply because they don't have the Sim driving expertise that some of the "career sim drivers" have. Some people will flat-out suck in Silverstone, and I mean they will literally have no business being there. Don't believe me? View the videos documenting the previous GT Academy. If you have never raced in real life, you really have no idea just how much more difficult it is - it's a completely different skill set than Sim driving. To each it's own, and I have nothing but respect for the awesome Sim Drivers - but it's a whole new ballgame when it's REAL.

Bottom-line: Do what you need to do to win, by stretching the rules as much as possible. Noones safety is at stake. If you want the chance of a lifetime to pursue your dream of being a real race car driver, or even networking with people in motorsport that could get you a job involved with racing, or even just the amazing, life-long and impacting experience that the GT Academy would provide, then you are going to find a way, or at least do everything in your power to get there.

Would really love to get Jordan Tresson's or Lucas Ordonez's opinion on this issue....

Cheers,

Nick

This is the post that should end the thread. Anyone whining anywhere in here should read this and believe it. Its 100% true, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Shadou]

+1 to that, one of the biggest differance is the fear factor imho, here and any racing game, you can always restart if you made a mistake. on the track, consider your car a write-off before you even start it xD.

But hey you guys have good eyes and line of sight! best of luck who is left in it!

 

[GT Motion]

I hate when people bitch about the realism of this game and the whole thing with going off in to the grass. Guess what? This isn't real life. It's not a perfect driving simulation. It's a GAME. I hate that you have to do it, and I don't agree with it - but it's not cheating, it's doing everything within the confines of legality to go as fast as possible. I race in real life, so I can tell you this with some credibility - you can be the best sim driver in the world, and suck in real life. I mean that, I've seen it first hand with amazing GT4 drivers that struggle pretty bad in go karts or autoX. You can be the best real life driver - and suck in a simulation. I've seen videos - Sebastien Loeb in one case - who was HORRIFIC in a driving simulator. The fact is, at the end of the day, this is a game and competition which evaluates WHO THE BEST GT5 DRIVER is- nothing more, nothing less. Only when the top 16 go to Silverstone will we find out who the best REAL LIFE drivers are out of that top 16. There are many drivers (I know without question) that will not make Silverstone that will be faster by a long shot over the majority of drivers that actually go to Silverstone, simply because they don't have the Sim driving expertise that some of the "career sim drivers" have. Some people will flat-out suck in Silverstone, and I mean they will literally have no business being there. Don't believe me? View the videos documenting the previous GT Academy. If you have never raced in real life, you really have no idea just how much more difficult it is - it's a completely different skill set than Sim driving. To each it's own, and I have nothing but respect for the awesome Sim Drivers - but it's a whole new ballgame when it's REAL.

Bottom-line: Do what you need to do to win, by stretching the rules as much as possible. Noones safety is at stake. If you want the chance of a lifetime to pursue your dream of being a real race car driver, or even networking with people in motorsport that could get you a job involved with racing, or even just the amazing, life-long and impacting experience that the GT Academy would provide, then you are going to find a way, or at least do everything in your power to get there.

Would really love to get Jordan Tresson's or Lucas Ordonez's opinion on this issue....

Cheers,

Nick

Haha perfectly put. I am good friends with a professional driver in Europe who has driven an M3 GTR Race car at the ring, Gallardo GT3 race car in testing etc and when in iRacing he is still behind the pace. He was frustrated with some of the techniques used by the sim drivers, but the sim drivers told him that he was wrong everything would work peachy in real life. He got frustrated with the whole system and I don't think renewed, I renewed but I barely use iRacing anymore, I was in the first batch of people to get Pro licenses and I just had no desire to do the series, I have more fun driving all kinds of varieties of cars on the track, changing between street cars and race cars, etc. If I am playing a game I want to have fun, a game is supposed to be fun and stress relieving. I think the one thing I can take from game racing is it helps me to remember to focus on my exits etc, other than that I value my real life track experience over any amount of time in a sim.

 

[xe2bls]

I already proved a fast sim racer can be fast instantly without any real world experience in real life.

Just because you're fast in a sim doesn't mean you will suck in real life!

I got sponsored to do laps in a TAG kart at PBIR and beat a karting champion by a very good margin (TT, I wasn't strong enough to do a whole race), he WAS heavier, but you have to admit, without any experience and no more than around 60laps, that's pretty damn good don't you think?

What they want is a fast SIM racer that can be just as fast IRL. GT5 or any other similar sim is perfect for it.

 

[Seankf1105]

Ok, now you are stretching it, I really doubt PD intentionally put a grass line in the competition just to see which drivers would find it and adapt, that is just ridiculous. On my fast lap I didn't use the grass, but I did use pit exit, however I don't know how to do it right and I always tap the wall and lose speed so I am not sure how much it actually helped on that lap.

LOL yea true, got a little carried away, but the point I was trying to make is we dont even know if it was a glitch.

 

[Seankf1105]

I already proved a fast sim racer can be fast instantly without any real world experience in real life.

Just because you're fast in a sim doesn't mean you will suck in real life!

I got sponsored to do laps in a TAG kart at PBIR and beat a karting champion by a very good margin (TT, I wasn't strong enough to do a whole race), he WAS heavier, but you have to admit, without any experience and no more than around 60laps, that's pretty damn good don't you think?

What they want is a fast SIM racer that can be just as fast IRL. GT5 or any other similar sim is perfect for it.

That's pretty cool. I'm guessing you were just racing karts recreationally when they found you?

 

[Forcednduckshn]

I already proved a fast sim racer can be fast instantly without any real world experience in real life.

Just because you're fast in a sim doesn't mean you will suck in real life!

I got sponsored to do laps in a TAG kart at PBIR and beat a karting champion by a very good margin (TT, I wasn't strong enough to do a whole race), he WAS heavier, but you have to admit, without any experience and no more than around 60laps, that's pretty damn good don't you think?

What they want is a fast SIM racer that can be just as fast IRL. GT5 or any other similar sim is perfect for it.

Not sure if you were speaking to me directly, but just so you know, I never said a fast sim racer can't be fast in real life. For sure, sim racing does carry a ton of merit and the fundamentals definitely cross over- What I said was that being a fast sim racer does not neccesarily translate to being fast in real life. I make it a point to say this to you out of respect for the talent you have displayed in GT5. 👍

Definitely something to be proud of and a feather in your cap to beat a pro karter, regardless of the circumstances - congratulations. On a tangent, what was the weight discrepancy of you versus the champion karter, and how long was the course? I can give you a very good idea of whether or not you still beat him based on driving skill and what weight usually means in terms of impact on lap time. I am surprised they did not ballast the both of you to the same weight.

Nick

 

[acerockolla]

I got sponsored to do laps in a TAG kart at PBIR and beat a karting champion by a very good margin (TT, I wasn't strong enough to do a whole race), he WAS heavier, but you have to admit, without any experience and no more than around 60laps, that's pretty damn good don't you think?

Wow, thats pretty good. Even for an experienced karter like myself, just going from a Yamaha KT100 to a TAG was a big jump that had a bit of a learning curve because of the power difference. That, and the TAG class had a more sticky tire.

Also, I agree that Forcednduckshn said it best and this whole "issue" of cutting needs to be put to rest. The thing that these complainers don't realize is that if the rules were changed and you couldn't cut at all, the same people would be winning. And even then someone could probably find something to complain about.

 

[acerockolla]

can give you a very good idea of whether or not you still beat him based on driving skill and what weight usually means in terms of impact on lap time. I am surprised they did not ballast the both of you to the same weight.

+1, Not to discount his achievement, but I'm curious to known the difference in weight and other details.

 

[Rated-M3]

You can be the best real life driver - and suck in a simulation. I've seen videos - Sebastien Loeb in one case - who was HORRIFIC in a driving simulator.

And here I thought I was the only one I'm not the best or fastest, but I do feel more competent when I have g-forces telling me what's happening with the car. That was a morale bootser. 👍

 

[JerseyBoy85ss]

I agree xe2bls. I had no real life racing experience until last year when i bought my TAG kart (birel monza w/ rotax fr125). Needless to say they hold a simulator challenge at NJMP(New Jersey Motorsports Park) every year for the 24hrs of Daytona. The sim consists of using David Donahues prototype car on Daytona road course. Long story short top ten times got entered into a karting race angainst the other winners and Donahue. I mopped the track with everyone including Donahue. Granted it could have been i only weigh 120lbs but it felt good to go out and beat an actual racer with some high class credentials.

Donahue is in the black pants and the black sweater. And thats me in the simulator obviously.

 

[xe2bls]

We wrote about it on the iRacing forums. My account expired so I can't log in but I'm sure it would be pretty easy to find it if someone wants to look for it.

The guys name is Michael Riolo , I'm Andre Gomes. He posted less than me so it would be easier to find his posts to find the thread.

The lap was around 1 minute long, weight difference was pretty beefy, I don't remember how much though.

The point was to race Daniel Formal (SP? I don't remember), he was the national champion at the time, but he was only there the first day

The thing that bothered me the most is that I moved around way too much in my seat, there was like 6inches of space between me and the seat.

I had never been on a race track before that. They picked me because I was fast in iRacing

I know no one said sim racers are slow IRL, I didnt mean to sound harsh, just wanted to say it wasn't true because I know some people think that

 

[acerockolla]

We wrote about it on the iRacing forums. My account expired so I can't log in but I'm sure it would be pretty easy to find it if someone wants to look for it.

The guys name is Michael Riolo , I'm Andre Gomes. He posted less than me so it would be easier to find his posts to find the thread.

The lap was around 1 minute long, weight difference was pretty beefy, I don't remember how much though.

The point was to race Daniel Formal (SP? I don't remember), he was the national champion at the time, but he was only there the first day

The thing that bothered me the most is that I moved around way too much in my seat, there was like 6inches of space between me and the seat.

I had never been on a race track before that. They picked me because I was fast in iRacing

I know no one said sim racers are slow IRL, I didnt mean to sound harsh, just wanted to say it wasn't true because I know some people think that

Thats a pretty cool experience man, props for going faster than him while slopping around in his seat . But I can't help but stress how much weight makes a difference in a kart. When I weighed 130, I had to add about 40 pounds just to make it to the Senior weight level. And if I remember correctly, masters (the class Michael Riolo races in) is 20 pounds heavier than that.

But with that said, he is a national level champion, and beating him something to be proud of.

 

[Forcednduckshn]

I know no one said sim racers are slow IRL, I didnt mean to sound harsh, just wanted to say it wasn't true because I know some people think that

Gotcha:tup:

Regardless of the wieght discrepancy, you drove your butt off and kudos to you.

Regarding how much a difference in lap time there was between what you say is a "beefy" weight difference, I'll give you a basic frame of reference around my local track with 9hp Sodi Indoor Race karts on a ~40 second track, with medium-high grip concrete:

10 lbs is worth roughly .15-.2 per lap, in the range of 130lbs to 220lbs. Comparing lower weights, the advantage is more significant. Comparing higher weights, the advantage becomes only slightly less signficant (simply because the % weight differential drops.)

If you were at least 50 lbs lighter than the guy (say you are 150lbs and he was 200lbs), with no ballast, on a 60 second track which would carry at LEAST a .2 penalty for every 10 lbs, you would have been 1 second faster than him, per lap based on weight alone, assuming equal driver inputs. In actuality, the difference was likely almost 3 tenths of a second, maybe more depending on the course layout. If you know the time you ran versus what he ran, knowing what the weight difference was, you can calculate whether or not you beat him based on driving input.

I am pleased to hear that you acknowledge the weight penalty as being very significant and worth commenting on. I still laugh when the 150lbr's (I'm 215) run times equal to mine and then try to say "see, we are running the same times, wieght doesn't matter." Then they put the ballast up to match me (65 lbs) and they are a second slower

 

[xe2bls]

I asked them (a bit too much my uncle said) if they could calculate the time with the weight difference and they said there were too many variables. I am sure that I might even have not matched his time if the weight was the same, but the fact I was faster even with the weight difference meant I wouldn't be too far behind, which was nice considering how brutal and new to me it was.

Something I'll never forget....

at PBIR, the first corner is a chicane, hitting it at 50mph (or whatever it was) was SO harsh that I couldn't really see what was going on until I was already way past it and into the straight, problem was, the engine was on the powerband so there was tons of power to throw the rear around and there is this huge hole on the right, where the curb would be, and if you miss the hole there is a huge jump (which i talk about flying off it once). So there I was, not seeing anything, oversteering towards a hole, rib hurting so bad it made me scream, (breathing hurt for months after that) but foot pegged on the throttle because hitting it right was so important.

That was some scary, painful stuff. Had the time of my life

EDIT: JerseyBoy85ss that is very very cool

 

[blindsidefive0]

@Forcednduckshn - do you really think the handicap is that much for the 9hp karts? In the 6hp karts I think 10lbs is about 1 tenth per 30 seconds on a technical track (right around what you were citing), but I didn't think it was quite so bad with the 9hp karts because the relative difference in power/weight is reduced. I suppose it's hard to tell without a ton of experience because there's so much variation between any given kart at your typical facility (+1s/minute at times).

 

[Forcednduckshn]

Hey Blindside!

Yes, unfortunately it really is that big of a difference. The 9hp vs 6hp weight penalty does change marginally, but there is still a huge difference in power to weight ratio between the weights, even though the power has gone up "50%". A key note is to remember that acceleration is not the only factor in performance/lap time. The cornering speeds at "traction limit" corners go down the heavier you are, because the cart is still running the same width/diameter tires for the heavy guy and the light guy. This is especially apparent in the low/medium speed hairpins where the limit of traction of the tires is easily reached. So, not only is the heavy guy getting killed in power to weight ratio, but TIRE to weight ratio. Also, braking zones are increased for the heavy guys and due to the peaky nature of go kart engines, heavy guys will tend to work with a lower power band of the engine! Thinking about all of this, the heavier guys are literally slower on every part of the race track, at every moment, simply because of the increased mass/inertia/momentum/kinetic energy they are forced to deal with. In an extreme comparison, this gives a bit of insight as to why F1 drivers are so keen to shed 5-10lbs of weight in the offseason, or why a team obsesses literally over OUNCES of weight on their cars, and will spend many thousands to do it. And they don't even reap the full benefit of "losing the weight" since the cars are spec-weight, this is only to have more "available ballast" to be able to place the weight in the car where they see fit to achieve an optimal weight distribution. This should give people a sense of just how important weight is in motorsport. And don't even get me started on downforce.

Going off on another tangent (for the other folks newer to "racing physics"),

There is one form of motorsport where weight may help increase performance: drag racing. And this applies specifically to putting more weight over the drive wheels so that you have more net traction out of the hole. That's where this applies to full benefit:

Fr = &#956; x N

* Fr is the resistive force of friction (how much traction/grip you can achieve)
* &#956; is the coefficient of friction for the two surfaces (Tire vs Road)
* N is the normal or perpendicular force pushing the two objects together (Weight of the car, specifically weight of the car on the drive wheels)

Following along with this, I also find it a funny misconception by some noobs I have met at the track that think more weight = more traction in corners. LOL. That would be true if you didn't take in to account the lateral loading on the car/tires from centripetal force, a force that wants to pull the car outward, in a perpendicular direction opposite of the direction of the corner.

(Think about a ball on a string: swing the ball around and the ball wants to fly off of the string.) The more the ball weighs, the greater the force (Force = Mass*Acceleration) of the ball wanting to fly off of the string. This compares to the increased weight of the driver. Also, the faster you swing the ball around, the greater the force. This compares to the cornering speed of the cart/driver. At some swing speed, and some weight of the ball, that string is going to break. Think about that as the limit of traction of the tires. Putting it all together, something has to give. In order to get the same cornering speed, either increase the tire, or decrease the weight of the driver. When you can not do that, the only thing left to do is slow down for the corner.👍

 

[blindsidefive0]

Forcednduckshn - +1 for the technical discussion.

You are absolutely right that acceleration is only part of the issue, and that cornering speed is affected regardless of power. I should have specified - it was my assumption that the 9hp karts were not just more powerful, but heavier as well. In that case the weight of the driver makes up a smaller percentage of the total weight of the kart. In IRL, some drivers have complained about Danica Patrick's weight advantage. If they were all driving GT-R's, the advantage would be pretty much nothing.

...if the 6hp karts and 9hp karts weight about the same, then I lose...mostly...because acceleration is still a big component.

 

[Rated-M3]

Nice break down. The force arrows in the picture do not represent centripetal force, but the force of friction. Centripetal force points outward as stated.

 

[Forcednduckshn]

@Blindside 👍 Thanks! 'twas a good question, I love discussing these things. And good to point out the added weight of the 9hp carts, that would definitely minimize (at least in some small margin) the effect of a driver weight advantage.

I think it's funny that drivers have complained about Danica Patrick's weight!Being able to put the ballast/weight lower in the car is a big deal.

I remember reading about Vettel/Webber in F1. It was stated that in order to try and achieve a more equal performance level, Webber was given a lighter overall chassis than Vettel to try and offset Vettels signficant weight advantage (just guestimating, 20-30lbs.) Crazy stuff.

Nice break down. The force arrows in the picture do not represent centripetal force, but the force of friction. Centripetal force points outward as stated.

Thanks, and thanks for clarifying what the picture represents 👍