will there be any motorcycles in gt7

[Quakebass]

As long as PD gave us the option to choose what vehicle classes are allowed in a race and/or lobby, I can't think of an issue. You can keep your races "pure" with just one class, or you can mix it up and treat it like awhat it is - a simulator game. You're provided with the tools and simulated physics to do what you want without time, monetary or normal human capacital constraints.

Certainly there's the fact that modelers spent time building the bikes, but considering the amount of time has passed since the first indication of bikes was spotted (I believe it was GT-original tracks on the PS3 containing bike start grids, although I may be mistaken), then clearly this project would have been going for a while, and there would be a plethora of vehicles on either side of the vehicular spectrum (though it doesn't necessarily save us from PD's lack of diversity in models). Considering PD, I'd imagine the physics engine they build would be robust enough to be accurately applied to both cars and bikes, and anything they figure out on either side would only benefit the accuracy of the simulation for either side.

But that's just me. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[Lain]

Except not driving standards won't magically remove them from the career mode nor magically make the entire game up to the same visual standard so that's not really a solution for someone that wants a graphically consistent game is it?

The "don't like em don't drive em" was just a throwaway conclusion to that little tangent because this isn't the thread for me to make some long-winded post rambling on about standard vehicles.

Naturally, I too would like the game to be graphically consistent. I certainly don't like that it's graphically inconsistent. But hey, you only have the people who ragged on GT3 for being a huge step down from GT2 content-wise to thank for Polyphony opting to carry GT4 assets over to the next generation.

 

[SZRT Ice]

• Then no. A nine year old tech demo that was a bunch of ported assets from a game that released just a few months prior and was publicly cancelled anyway immediately after is not proof of continued development of the ideas in said demo

Lol. What do you think "Standard" vehicles are? They're "9+ y/o ported assets!"

(nor) does the existence of the 9 year old demo show that PD knew how to solve the worries raised about how to put the two vehicle types together at the same time and keep things fair.

As you said, it was 9 years ago. They would likely have figured that out by now.

The key word you must have missed was "could". I never said "is", but simply that it's a possibility.

Are you in Kaz's head? Do you know if that's something he desires? Bikes and cars together under one title? How do you know for sure it wasn't an ongoing plan being worked on throughout GT5 and GT6's development? Kaz and PD had PS4 dev kits long before the PS4 released (I think it was 4 or 5 years? (If not more) How do you know what he was working on during that time? How do you know what assets he may have been creating and saving for PS4? Maybe he didn't want to do it during the PS3 era. Maybe they weren't ready. Maybe it wasn't possible, or too difficult? Who knows? But all I'm saying, is that it's a possibility. And with PD recently spotted at the Isle of Mann, I believe the possibility has increased.

 

[JKgo]

...Catfight!!

 

[Tornado]

Lol. What do you think "Standard" vehicles are? They're "9+ y/o ported assets!"

Congratulations. And?

As you said, it was 9 years ago. They would likely have figured that out by now.

I suppose we can add it to the list of things PD have had problems solving since 2004 but should just assume they'll figure out for GT7. Though I'll take that as an acknowledgement that they hadn't figured it out when they put together GT:HD, contrary to what you implied earlier.

But all I'm saying, is that it's a possibility.

That's actually not what you said, nor was it what I took issue with this time or the first time you pushed GT:HD as more than it actually was. You've brought it up to try and add credence to the idea that PD have been working on modeling bikes this entire time since it was shown. You brought it up in that context even though the entire stated purpose of that version of the game (GT:HD Classic) was the exact opposite.
Someone said that PD have enough problems with the racing between cars to worry about adding bikes to the mix, and you brought it up again in response as proof PD has that figured out even though the video you posted shows that they didn't.


So for the third time, what about GT:HD makes you keep bringing it up as a smoking gun for this thread?

 

[SZRT Ice]

Congratulations. And?

And they're still in GT6 to this day. So, weak argument there.

I suppose we can add it to the list of things PD have had problems solving since 2004 (On PS3) but should just assume they'll figure out for GT7. Though I'll take that as an acknowledgement that they hadn't figured it out when they put together GT:HD, contrary to what you implied earlier

The same way that you're assuming that they haven't...
(You see what I did there? I can bold things too! )

I'll acknowledge that they hadn't figured it out on the PS3, with everything else they were trying to cram in the game. The PS4 may be different.

That's actually not what you said, nor was it what I took issue with this time or the first time you pushed GT:HD as more than it actually was. You've brought it up to try and add credence to the idea that PD have been working on modeling bikes this entire time since it was shown. You brought it up in that context even though the entire stated purpose of that version of the game (GT:HD Classic) was the exact opposite.
Someone said that PD have enough problems with the racing between cars (on PS3) to worry about adding bikes to the mix, and you brought it up again in response as proof PD has that figured out even though the video you posted shows that they hadn't.

"Credence to the idea that PD could <<--[key word] have been working on modeling bikes this entire time since it was shown"

It's a common thing for dev's to show a game in an alpha state before delivering the final product. Many times, much progress is made within a few months. So are you telling me that it's not possible for them to have progressed from GT:HD's state of bikes and cars together to something more functional within the ever so short time span of 9 years?, and on superior hardware?

So for the third time, what about GT:HD makes you keep bringing it up as a smoking gun for this thread?

That it's possible.

 

[Rautz]

Id rather a TTTwo game dev'ed later down the track with an option to export the premiums in your garage from GT7 to TTT.

 

[Tornado]

And they're still in GT6 to this day. So, weak argument there.

And what argument was that? You keep talking about how GT:HD implies they might have continued modeling Premium-level motorcycles when GT:HD didn't have any such thing and based on the released info about the version of the game that had them, never was going to.
And no, it's not the same thing anyway even if I was making whatever argument you believe I was making. GT:HD Classic was supposed to be an HD port of GT4 (with TT) and was shown off the year prior at E3 as well. A game that had released just a year prior (and a few months earlier, respectively). GT:HD was supposed to release relatively close to the PS3's launch date as well. It was explicitly always a tech demo for what the PS3 was capable of; while the disc version of GT:HD was supposed to be what eventually became GT5: Prologue. Quite a bit different from just recycling most of the same assets anyway for a completely different game released 9 years afterward.



It is amusing that in your rush to trip me up you've walked into such a minefield for your point, though. Wonder if you can see it.

The same way that you're assuming that they haven't...

Except I'm not assuming anything. Certainly, there's plenty of things that PD have been incapable of doing to advance the series since GT4, in some cases even regressing from it. To not have blind trust in PD solving all of the problems with their game for the next game (which is basically what you're advocating) isn't the same thing as assuming something can't be done; which certainly explains the cool reception every attempt to expand the series focus (either announced or proposed) gets, motorcycles or not. But if PD have been spending the past 9 years recreating San Andreas stunt videos with all of their Premium modeled motorcycles, fantastic for them. It would certainly explain why their content creation for GT6 has been so pitiful. If PD have been spending the past 9 years absolutely perfecting collision physics (and race penalties) in a way that can't be done on the PS3, more power to them then to. It would certainly explain why GT6 was such a mediocre step above GT5 in both measures.


I'm merely criticizing you for using a cancelled tech demo from a decade ago explicitly made from recycled assets as proof of future developer intent towards creating brand new PS3-quality ones; and using a cancelled tech demo from a decade ago with some pretty blatant physics patches on top of the ported GT4 engine to allow cars and bikes to occupy the same race as proof of future developer intent towards creating ways to solve the unfairness inherent to cars and bikes occupying the same race.

I'll acknowledge that they hadn't figured it out on the PS3, with everything else they were trying to cram in the game.

Good. So you acknowledge that bringing up GT:HD in that context was meaningless. Since when GT:HD was released they clearly hadn't gotten far enough with it to even figure out what to do when a car crashes into a bike (again, shown in your video); nevermind balancing it and/or allocating penalties.

"Credence to the idea that PD could <<--[key word] have been working on modeling bikes this entire time since it was shown"

Except GT:HD doesn't even do that much. Everything in that demo was a GT4 or TT port. Everything in that demo was being put towards a final game where everything was supposed to be a GT4 or TT port, except sold piecemeal instead. Nothing was ever said about the GT:HD Classic version shown off at trade shows and playable in June of 2006 and ultimately cancelled before a version was even given to the public to try even suggested that they would be upgrading assets from the 2006 E3 demo to the higher modeling quality expected of a PS3 game.


GT:HD simply existing says absolutely nothing about modeling higher quality PS3-level bikes. Period.

So are you telling me that it's not possible for them to have progressed from GT:HD's state of bikes and cars together to something more functional within the ever so short time span of 9 years?, and on superior hardware?

I'm telling you the fact that the (publicly cancelled, possibly in response to negative publicity) tech demo existing at one point doesn't prove anything in any way for what PD had been working on for the 9 years that followed after they (publicly) cancelled it; any more than it proves that GT7 will have an event creator, or a livery editor, or custom licence plates.

That it's possible.

Congratulations. You've proven an argument no one was refuting that the Grand Theft Auto series already proved in 2002. When did anyone say that it was impossible for bikes to occupy the same space as cars in the first place?



That's pretty blatantly not what you were implying when you first brought it up anyway, but that's good enough for me.

 

[SZRT Ice]

Wow. That's a lot.

I notice how you take a part of an overall message and focus on one aspect. Magnifying it so much, that the overall message is completely forgotten. You also take what I say, and twist it to something I don't mean. I don't care to contend with that, or with all your micro-analysis and nit-picking.

I see GT:HD as the 1st time PD revealed a working model of motorcycles and cars moving on a track together within the same game.

What PD were capable of or limited by on PS3, demonstrates nothing and has no bearing on what they are capable of on PS4. I don't assume anything of PD's abilities with PS4 hardware, as I haven't yet seen what they are capable of with it, and I don't judge their abilities or inabilities based off of what they've done on, or were limited by on inferior hardware. I'm not expecting as huge a leap (visually) as seen from GT1 to GT3, to GT5. But I will admit that imo, major improvements have been revealed when PD is allowed to showcases their abilities on superior hardware.

I never claimed it was the final form of a working model. I don't believe it's a proper form of motorsport competition. I don't think there needs to be some sort of extended rule set created for it as that form of competition doesn't exist in real life.

However, the same way you keep things fair in a game that has road cars. WRC, NASCAR, LMP's, and GT class vehicles, is the same way you keep things fair with motorcycles. Just treat motorcycles as a new vehicle type, and assign it accordingly to it's own class of motorsport. Can a person race a NASCAR vehicle against a road car in Gran Turismo? Sure they can, if you leave the options open for it. Well, the same options are also accessible for bikes.

It's not proof of intent, as their intent is not known for certain. It's merely proof that it was considered. And no official proof that it was completely disregarded has surfaced since that time. Just because the game was cancelled, doesn't mean that the idea was.

You keep making it seem as if my belief is that GT:HD was the definitive beginning of PD creating bikes for GT7. Like it's solid proof of the fact. When all I was insisting is that the idea for it has been with them since that time. Stop attempting to coerce me into admitting that I'm saying something that I'm not. I never claimed it was definitive proof of development, or anything else.

You already answered me pertaining to the question I asked about it, so get off of it. I'm done with the tit-for-tat with you. You don't know if they cancelled development for certain, and I don't know for certain if they continued. But GT:HD is not our main focal point, is it? It's GT7. So drop it already. And yes, I will bring GT:HD up as often as I please if people claim that they won't work together in the same game, or if people claim PD can't handle them, because there's no definitive proof showcasing that either, and I don't see you arguing, dissecting, & nit-picking at those posts.

 

[Tornado]

You keep making it seem as if my belief is that GT:HD was the definitive beginning of PD creating bikes for GT7.

Nope. You might have a case here if I hadn't repeatedly asked you why you kept bringing up GT:HD to try to understand what you thought it was supposed to represent; after you already tried to use its mere existence as a stick to beat another member with as a supplement to other things you said that actually held merit (more on this in a bit).

You don't know if they cancelled development for certain

http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/12/01/sony-drops-gran-turismo-hd

It isn't any stretch of the little grey cells to conclude that GT:HD Classic is pretty god damned dead at this point (unless you can think the market will be accepting of an HD port of GT4 on the PS4). The version that PS3 players got to play in 2006 wasn't even the same version that had bikes in it. And GT:HD Premium ,with the feature set it was explained as having, pretty clearly became...

*drumroll*

GT5: Prologue.

And yes, I will bring GT:HD up as often as I please if people claim that they won't work together in the same game,

Which is fair enough, because such a thing is false and GT:HD is proof of such. I've already admitted as much, and I've still yet to see much in the way of people saying otherwise. So you're still arguing a position that doesn't seem to be that popular to begin with, but it is true what you're arguing.

or if people claim PD can't handle them

Which isn't, because GT:HD is not even relevant to that claim; so it will continue to be wrong "as often as you please" to bring it up in that context.

because there's no definitive proof showcasing that either, and I don't see you arguing, dissecting, & nit-picking at those posts.

Because there's nothing to nitpick. The people who are claiming that they don't believe PD can handle bikes in a GT game are basing it on something. Every post made since you first brought up GT:HD and I first took issue with it have given reasoning for why they don't believe PD can't handle bikes in a GT game. PD spent an entire console generation screwing up even the basics that they had put in place with the first four games of the series; and when faced with the prospect of PD taking on even more complexity of course some people are going to be wary of it. You attempting to shut that viewpoint down with "but but but but GT:HD" doesn't mean anything, because GT:HD doesn't mean anything as a response to that criticism of PD. They ported Tourist Trophy to the PS3 and readded some GT4 cars in 2006, so people worrying about what PD is actually capable of accomplishing in 2015 is null and void? And when pressed for why that is the case, the best you can come up with is the same kind of blind faith PR garbage that everyone already has heard three times now?




And since you're so good at keeping score, you'll also note that I didn't "argue, dissect or nitpick" any part of your post about why they may be modeling bikes for a GT7 except the part where you brought up GT:HD. You're throwing your toys on the pretext of me "magnifying it so much, that the overall message is completely forgotten"; that it is almost like you failed to notice that in this whole big explanation post:

The biggest issue I'm having with your opinions, is that they are based on what PD has done that you've seen. It completely leaves out the key and most important things. Which is what they're saving for later.

Let me ask you this...

Do you think PD has ANY cars modelled at all for GT7?

Do you think it's not likely that GT has selectively chosen vehicles to hold off for GT7?

Kaz helped choose the hardware requirements necessary for the PS4 and had early access to PS4 dev kits; being a top priority, 1st party dev. So when do you think the "work" (the saving of certain features unusable on PS3 to be used at a later time on PS4) on GT7 began? During GT6? Maybe during GT5?

What do you think was the purpose of GT:HD? Why do you think they held off on it? Why do you think PD was found scanning The Isle of Mann? And if GT:HD came out after TT, and was also a demo of a new, high definition version of Gran Turismo, wouldn't that mean that they were scanning premium quality models of motorcycles at that time?

Except for those two sentences in bold, I completely ignored. I never argued them, never touched them, never even acted like they existed. Why is that? Is it, like you're asserting, that I'm trying to take what you said and twist it into something that you didn't mean (amusing, since I was repeatedly asking what you meant and you kept sidestepping it until just the last post)?

Maybe, perhaps, because the only thing in your post I objected to was that one specific part? Maybe you made a reasonable argument, except for that one specific part where you talked up a tech demo long past its sell by date? Maybe I kept asking you what significance you felt it held to the discussion because you acted like it was so obvious without actually saying how?

 

[SZRT Ice]

::snip::

The only person trying to trip someone up, is you.

Did the working title "GT:HD" get cancelled? Yes.
Did the contents from GT:HD get thrown in the trash? No.
Is the concept of bikes and motorcycles together in one game present in GT:HD completely thrown out the window? That we don't know.

Have fun with whatever it is you're trying to do. I already explained myself. No analytics were ever necessary. If I was wrong about something, so be it. But I'm not going through this muck you're trying to drag me through, as you're convoluting the topic, and taking it miles off course.

I was talking about deveolpment of motorcycles. It's obvious that GT:HD isn't still in development... Smart 🤬. I'm not going tit-for tat with you anymore. It's pointless.

 

[JKgo]

....This is entertaining.

 

[SZRT Ice]

Mis-post

 

[JKgo]

Mis-post

 

[SZRT Ice]

Accidental post.

 

[JKgo]

Accidental post.

...Okay I'll stop with 'em memes now.

 

[Psychopulse]

That would be great! With rumors of Isle of Man being considered for the track list, it seems natural to have motorcycles in GT7. We don't know for sure if the track is coming to GT7 though lol, I guess we'll have to wait for E3 to find out! I for one would like to see motorcycles in GT7, just not racing together with cars because that would be too a la Midnight Club or Project Gotham Racing haha

 

[SZRT Ice]

That would be great! With rumors of Isle of Man being considered for the track list, it seems natural to have motorcycles in GT7. We don't know for sure if the track is coming to GT7 though lol, I guess we'll have to wait for E3 to find out! I for one would like to see motorcycles in GT7, just not racing together with cars because that would be too a la Midnight Club or Project Gotham Racing haha

I'd like PD to go all the way with it. Including a bike career mode, with daily commuter bikes, dirt bikes, sport bikes, up to super/GT bikes.

It would also be cool for some nice bike and car track days. Getting together with some friends to see if we can find competitive car:bike match-ups.

Getting some sick photomode shots of a bike wheelie-ing alongside a car out of an apex, or a car drifting tandem to a biker leaning into an apex. Maybe an air-born WRC next to a dirt bike with mud spraying/dust trails. And it would make for some good car & bike photo-travel shots too.

I recently played the Ride demo on PS4 (epic game, btw), and the replay mode even had a slow-motion feature. Would make for some sick car/bike moments during replays. Idk, for me, bikes can only add to the fun.

 

[groz1996]

They said that they will make the Tourist Trophy 2 in the future, if you want motorcycle game.

 

[SZRT Ice]

They said that they will make the Tourist Trophy 2 in the future, if you want motorcycle game.

That's not what he said at all...
https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-cant-say-there-wont-be-a-tourist-trophy-2/

+

https://www.gtplanet.net/croatian-retailer-opens-preorders-for-gran-turismo-sport-ps4-game/

[Where Jordan said:

"Although it would be quite a departure from tradition for Polyphony Digital to drop the number “7” from the name, it may be an effort to differentiate the title, indicating the game might be headed in a different direction or may include motorcycles, as was inferred from the Isle of Man news that hit last year. We’ll just have to wait and see."]

=

Hype & Possibility.

 

[Tijee]

If it's true, and unless PD hires a whole new team, chances are that they would split their efforts between cars and motorcycles. I'd prefer less content, of a better quality (don't get me wrong, I like GT6 but I think PD can still do better), rather than appealing new customers with unrelated features.

If PD begins to waste energy with motorcycles at the expense of car enthusiasts, it may be the end of GT for me... Wait and see!

 

[ZZ-II]

I guess we'll have to wait for E3 to find out!

Or until Tokyo Game Show.

I personally like the idea to add Motorcycles to GT instead of bringing out a Tourist Trophy 2.

Why making two seperate games if you can do it with one .

 

[SZRT Ice]

If it's true, and unless PD hires a whole new team, chances are that they would split their efforts between cars and motorcycles. I'd prefer less content, of a better quality (don't get me wrong, I like GT6 but I think PD can still do better), rather than appealing new customers with unrelated features.

If PD begins to waste energy with motorcycles at the expense of car enthusiasts, it may be the end of GT for me... Wait and see!

If GT ever decides to include motorcycles, and still manages to be an awesome great game. It will be your loss. GT still has a bigger roster of cars than any other simulator and has many aspects and features that other sims lack.

I'm an old customer, car enthusiast, and can still appreciate bikes. And motorcycles are very much related in many ways...

They are motor vehicles used to transport people.
They have engines and wheels, they run on gas/petrol and diesel, and need oil.
They can also be washed, painted, tuned, customized, cruised, and raced.

Just about everything that Gran Turismo allows one to do in a car (besides going to outer space) can be done on a bike.

If they add motorcycles, and both the car and motorcycle aspect of the game turn out great, yet segregation is so important to you, and you truly can't deal with a more diverse Gran Turismo and refuse to make a purchase, it will be your loss.

 

[Tijee]

Unlike you, I'm not very fund of bikes. I've never been. If one day I want to try it, then I will buy a bikes game. However you got me wrong, I don't necessarily want different games for different sports, provided that every aspect of the game is a success. What I was saying is that the more you do, the more difficult it gets to do it right. It applies to everything in life, not just making video games.

If they add motorcycles, and both the car and motorcycle aspect of the game turn out great, yet segregation is so important to you, and you truly can't deal with a more diverse Gran Turismo, it will be your loss.

You summarized it: "If it turns out great". Which we won't know until the game is out. But if it does, of course I will not be that stupid to not buy it just because of bikes!

 

[ZZ-II]

For the beginning it would be enough to add lets say ~50 bikes, some racing series for bikes alone and a few bikes vs. cars.
With the LP system i think it's no problem to drive with a bike against cars or the other way. I personally think that would be great.

 

[Tenacious D]

the more you do, the more difficult it gets to do it right.

Well, sort of. More accurately, the more you try to do in a game, the more you dilute what you can accomplish, so you end up with more portions in the "meal," but they're smaller.

Now, assuming GT Sports is legit, it's possible that Kaz is producing a super Prologue in the form of something akin to P CARS. A game focused on FIA based pro racing at various levels in many leagues. In this format, something like a bike racing section could fit comfortably alongside car racing and rally. What's more, this might not be a one time thing. Suppose this is the answer to not waiting three to five years for a new GT(X) game? In between the numbered games in the series, we get a more sim oriented offering with fewer vehicles, which is much more appetizing to me than a free roam game like Forza Horizon. Just really not all that interested in driving through people's yards or state parks.

This is not only a chance to enjoy more Gran Turismo in a more serious form, it also gives us some Tourist Trophy without the danger of it proving a huge flop as a separate game. In case some of you are unaware, sales data indicates TT sold only about 700,000 copies to date, if that, and would make anyone hesitant to venture into those unsure waters, especially Polyphony. Incorporating it in a pro racing game is a much safer gamble.

 

[A2K78]

Now I think about it I don't mind the inclusion of motorcycles, provided its limited to Grand Prix(MotoGP) and Suzuka 8 Hour bikes and for good reason. One thing though PD must clearly get the bike/rider proportion right(this was something I noticed in TT...the rider/bike height didn't correlated accurately)

 

[JKgo]

...Don't remember if I mentioned this before, but if bikes are making an appearance, then I sincerely hope Harleys are included. Oh and the matching apparels. Can't forget those. Uh-uh.

 

[A2K78]

...Don't remember if I mentioned this before, but if bikes are making an appearance, then I sincerely hope Harleys are included. Oh and the matching apparels. Can't forget those. Uh-uh.

Aside from the XR-750 and XR1200 can't think of any other Harley bike worth being a PD game..

 

[JKgo]

Aside from the XR-750 and XR1200 can't think of any other Harley bike worth being a PD game..

...Sorry bud, not into racing.

This is what I'm on about: