WRC Season ArchiveRally

[Legro]

Watch it again. I don't think he saw the spectator.

When he hits the ditch, all he's thinking about is keeping it pinned to not get stuck. Every spectator there realizes this, except for the one idiot.

When the car pops up out of the ditch, it quickly rotates 90', at the same time, the windshield becomes completely blocked by thick white steam from under the hood.

No one else is standing where the person who got hit was. He was all by himself. When the car hits the ditch, everyone backs up. This fool doesnt react until the car is nearly on top of him. There is moment where the camera loses sight of the action, likely due to the camera man taking evasive action himself. When the camera picks up the car and the guy again, the guy looks like he's either fallen over, or is trying to pick something up off the ground (his camera maybe?). He looks like a bumbling fool before he gets hit. And the whole time, the windshield is covered in steam.


My guess is this was a guy trying to take either a photo or video. He wanted to get up close to the exit of the corner to capture some nice oversteer action, maybe a tire drop into the ditch; he just got a lot more than he was expecting Again, no one else was dumb enough to be standing where he was. I'm also guessing that there's a very good chance he'd had a couple of drinks, hence the stumbling and bumbling.

Honestly I don't fault the driver here at all. Dumb rally fan is dumb. Classic idiot ruining it for everyone else.

Edit: pause the video at 10 seconds, just before impact...what do you see. I see windshield completely blocked, and guy bending over to pick something up off the ground when the car is less than 5 feet away.

Eh... It's still a case of keeping the foot down going to the direction where there clearly were spectators without being able to see. The car was practically stopped before the acceleration towards the man occurred, if Latvala had thought of not accelerating before being able to see, the guy, who wasn't looking either, wouldn't have been run over.

The guy standing there may have been an idiot, but I can't say that the incident is anybody's fault but Latvala's.

 

[twitcher]

Eh... It's still a case of keeping the foot down going to the direction where there clearly were spectators without being able to see. The car was practically stopped before the acceleration towards the man occurred, if Latvala had thought of not accelerating before being able to see, the guy, who wasn't looking either, wouldn't have been run over.

The guy standing there may have been an idiot, but I can't say that the incident is anybody's fault but Latvala's.

I've watched it a few more times. He's actually off the throttle and locks the front brakes when he hits the guy, so maybe he did see him, but he certainly tried to not hit him.

He had it pinned in the ditch, but he backs off the throttle when he comes out. The reving you hear is probably some sort of anti-stall that kicks in when he locks up the brakes.

Had the spectator not been trying to pick that object up off the ground, the driver braking would probably have been enough to avoid a collision.

 

[Legro]

I've watched it a few more times. He's actually off the throttle and locks the front brakes when he hits the guy, so maybe he did see him, but he certainly tried to not hit him.

He had it pinned in the ditch, but he backs off the throttle when he comes out. The reving you hear is probably some sort of anti-stall that kicks in when he locks up the brakes.

Had the spectator not been trying to pick that object up off the ground, the driver braking would probably have been enough to avoid a collision.

It's mostly the tiny bit of acceleration just when the car comes out of the ditch between 0:08 and 0:10 that really makes the difference. He clearly lifts off and brakes after after that, possibly due to seeing the man standing there, although it's more likely that he just realised that he couldn't save it from the situation that some other driver had realised 1-2 seconds before.

You know what, after seeing the video with the volume up, it doesn't look that much of pure idiocy from Latvala, but I'm still sure that if he hadn't kept the wheels spinning after the car had basically turned off the road as long as they did, this wouldn't have happened whether the guy was there or not.

 

[MagpieRacer]

If anyone thinks Latvala was aiming for him or not trying to avoid him then your the idiots.

 

[twitcher]

It's mostly the tiny bit of acceleration just when the car comes out of the ditch between 0:08 and 0:10 that really makes the difference. He clearly lifts off and brakes after after that, possibly due to seeing the man standing there, although it's more likely that he just realised that he couldn't save it from the situation that some other driver had realised 1-2 seconds before.

You know what, after seeing the video with the volume up, it doesn't look that much of pure idiocy from Latvala, but I'm still sure that if he hadn't kept the wheels spinning after the car had basically turned off the road as long as they did, this wouldn't have happened whether the guy was there or not.

I still have to disagree. Yes he had it pinned in the ditch, but he did back off almost as soon as the car popped out. When you're banging the revs off the limiter like he was, it takes some time for the revs, and wheelspin, to bleed off; especially if the car is under negative G like he was as he exited the ditch.

You can't expect the driver to back off when the car is still in the ditch. It's his job to keep it pinned in that situation. He can't back off because he might pop out of the ditch, might rotate 90', and might hit a spectator who just happened to be in the wrong place. If he drove like that, he wouldn't have a job as a racecar driver. Once he did exit the ditch and rotate 90', he did his best to avoid contact...I don't think the same can be said for the spectator, more concerned for his camera than his own safety.

 

[Simmpa]

Can´t stop thinking whenever someone put that rock there so Meeke retired?

 

[Legro]

I still have to disagree. Yes he had it pinned in the ditch, but he did back off almost as soon as the car popped out. When you're banging the revs off the limiter like he was, it takes some time for the revs, and wheelspin, to bleed off; especially if the car is under negative G like he was as he exited the ditch.

I'm not sure it'd take 1,5 seconds, which is the time it takes from the car first starting to jump out of the ditch and turning off the road and the time it properly starts to head towards the unlucky guy, for the car to not lose the revs enough to make it accelerate like that. It's a question of if he could have lifted off earlier after the car started to jump out of the ditch and turn off the road. I'm still fairly certain that the answer to this would be yes.

You can't expect the driver to back off when the car is still in the ditch. It's his job to keep it pinned in that situation. He can't back off because he might pop out of the ditch, might rotate 90', and might hit a spectator who just happened to be in the wrong place. If he drove like that, he wouldn't have a job as a racecar driver.

I may have worded my earlier post wrong. I didn't mean lifting off as soon as when the car goes off the road, but when it starts to turn in the air into the direction that clearly doesn't have a road, but a field full of people who admittedly probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Can´t stop thinking whenever someone put that rock there so Meeke retired?

No. The initial impact didn't force him out. It just ripped the undercarriage off and left the gearbox exposed. It would have taken a second impact - albeit a minor one - to damage the gearbox.

Besides, the kind of stage sabotage that you're talking about would be grounds ti cancel the stage. It's far more likely that Meeke made a mistake. He was too far over to the right going through the corner, so the car bottomed out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The guy standing there may have been an idiot, but I can't say that the incident is anybody's fault but Latvala's.

Got to see a reverse angle of it in the half-hour highlights programme (they're not going to show a spectator being hit), plus onboard footage.

First, it's worth noting that the drivers sit much lower down and further back than in a conventional road car, and secondly, the onboard footage shows a lot of smoke and steam from spinning the tyres and the water from the ditch hitting the engine. Given that the spectator was bent over before he was hit, Latvala probably didn't see him.

Update: Latvala has been given a suspended one-event ban by the marshals, who felt that even if Latvala or Miikka Antillia didn't see the spectator, they should have at least taken into consideration the possibility of hitting someone, given the crowd that was gathered.

 

[Roo]

Can´t stop thinking whenever someone put that rock there so Meeke retired?

Wouldn't be the first time. Spectators on the Monte Carlo have a history of putting obstacles on the road to ruin the rallies of non-French drivers; adding snow and ice to a blind corner after their favourite driver had gone through was not unusual in the early 2000s.

He was too far over to the right going through the corner, so the car bottomed out.

By the looks of the dirt, several cars had cut that corner already. I'd be interested to see footage of other drivers going through the same corner, particularly the previous car and Ogier. If the rock was there when the other drivers and Ogier went through, fair enough, Meeke's mistake. If it wasn't, it wouldn't surprise me...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

By the looks of the dirt, several cars had cut that corner already. I'd be interested to see footage of other drivers going through the same corner, particularly the previous car and Ogier. If the rock was there when the other drivers and Ogier went through, fair enough, Meeke's mistake. If it wasn't, it wouldn't surprise me...

If you watch the replays, the spectators realise what has happened straight away. One of them goes to get rid of the rock, and it looks fairly solidly set in there. My guess is that the shoulder of the corner was hard - almost frozen - on the first pass through the stage, but as the day warmed up and the cars kept cutting the corner, the soil softened and the rock was gradually dug up. Since WRC cars have the lowest ground clearance, the other competitors got away with it. But Neeke ripped the sump guard off, he was fine to start with; I have seen onboard footage from the next few minutes, and there's nothing wrong with the gearbox. He must have taken a second whack further down the road.

There's simply no way spectators could have planted that rock and counted on it to take a driver out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I have to say, coverage of the power stage is brilliant. Hayden Paddon breaks a diff on his pass through, and decides to coast through to make sure he gets back to Monaco. Meanwhile, Elfyn Evans and Dani Sordo are both in the stage and flying - Sordo was blistering on the first run of the stage - so what does the television director do?

HE STAYS WITH PADDON.

Edit: And we just got the same thing with Neuville!

 

[Furinkazen]

If you watch the replays, the spectators realise what has happened straight away. One of them goes to get rid of the rock, and it looks fairly solidly set in there. My guess is that the shoulder of the corner was hard - almost frozen - on the first pass through the stage, but as the day warmed up and the cars kept cutting the corner, the soil softened and the rock was gradually dug up. Since WRC cars have the lowest ground clearance, the other competitors got away with it. But Neeke ripped the sump guard off, he was fine to start with; I have seen onboard footage from the next few minutes, and there's nothing wrong with the gearbox. He must have taken a second whack further down the road.

There's simply no way spectators could have planted that rock and counted on it to take a driver out.

Yes, and of course Ogier took a totally different line knowing there was a rock there

You plainly have no idea, as people have said above me, there is a history of this happening on the Monte.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yes, and of course Ogier took a totally different line knowing there was a rock there

Watch the replays of any driver, and you will find that they all take differing lines.

You plainly have no idea, as people have said above me, there is a history of this happening on the Monte.

Alright. Explain to me then how the spectators managed to bury a rock large enough to rip Meeke's sump guard clean off and bury it deep enough that the force of a WRC car hitting it would not be enough to move it, and how they managed to do it in semi-frozen earth and how they could achieve all of this and then remove it in the three minutes between cars.

Did it occur to you that maybe - just maybe - Ogier saw the rock and Meeke didn't? I find it far more likely that a three-time World Champion has the spatial recognition to spot what Meeke missed than I do a conspiracy to take Meeke out of the running. After all, the corner started as a downhill left into a cambered right, and the rock was lightly coloured compared to the dirt surrounding it. The drivers might have only had a moment to react, but this is rallying - the sport is frequently decided based on what happens in the space of a moment.

Ogier was already pulling ahead at the time of the crash, and has three World Championships and three Monte Carlo wins to his name. If Latvala or Neuville or Lefebvre or any other driver had hit it, we wouldn't be having this conversation because Kris Meeke is the Mark Webber of the WRC: not quite quick enough, but savvy enough to get the media and the public on his side. He's not the second coming of Colin McRae, even if the media want him to be.

Now, if it were the other way around, with a rock used to take Ogier out, then maybe I could believe it.

 

[Furinkazen]

Now, if it were the other way around, with a rock used to take Ogier out, then maybe I could believe it.

Of course, french fans would want to take the french driver out!

Watch the replays of any driver, and you will find that they all take differing lines.

There's still generally "a racing line"

Ogier was already pulling ahead at the time of the crash, and has three World Championships and three Monte Carlo wins to his name. If Latvala or Neuville or Lefebvre or any other driver had hit it, we wouldn't be having this conversation because Kris Meeke is the Mark Webber of the WRC: not quite quick enough, but savvy enough to get the media and the public on his side. He's not the second coming of Colin McRae, even if the media want him to be.

You even have a clue what you are talking about? Meekes rarely good enough for the podium.

 

[G_Parrilla]

It was not planted. Or at least it was there from before the start.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You even have a clue what you are talking about? Meekes rarely good enough for the podium.

Yes, I know exactly what I am talking about. All of the comments insinuate a conspiracy against Meeke - that the spectators planted the rock to take him out because he was a threat to Ogier.

There's still generally "a racing line"

Watch the video @G_Parilla posted - most of the drivers in it take the same approach as Ogier. Meeke is the only one who takes a different line. That makes me wonder if it was in the notes, because the gravel crews would have certainly pucked up on it.

Of course, french fans would want to take the french driver out!

Huh. If only there was some way that rally fans from around the world could get into France to watch the rally. A way of passing through a port, perhaps.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Going by his performance in Monte Carlo, I have to wonder how much longer Jari-Matti Latvala has with Volkswagen. Even before the incident with the spectator, he was looking pretty ragged. He is out of contract at the end of the year, and has already shot down suggestions that he could move to Toyota. But with Jost Capito off to McLaren, the new senior management might not be quite so forgiving.

I know the championship has only had one round for 2016, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andreas Mikkelsen winds up in the second Polo R alongside Ogier, with Esapekka Lappi drafted in to Volkswagen Motorsport II. Hyundai is definitely keeping Hayden Paddon, and I doubt they'll give up on Thierry Neuville without a fight; they might keep rotating Dani Sordo between the teams. Likewise, Citroën is holding onto Kris Meeke, and their cycling of Craig Breen and Stephane Lefebvre makes me think that they want a three-car approach in 2017, with Breen or Lefebvre in the third car. Latvala could wind up in the second Citroën, though he risks doing what Mikko Hirvonen did; still, I think it might be better than staying at Volkswagen. Alternatively, Latvala could go to Toyota - he'd get along well with Tommi Mäkkinen - with Eric Camilli in the second seat; before he joined M-Sport, Camilli was Toyota's development driver, and his 2016 seat looks like a placement to get him experience. As for M-Sport, they will probably keep Østberg and re-recruit Evans.

 

[G_Parrilla]

Well, talking about Latvala...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Already covered:

Update: Latvala has been given a suspended one-event ban by the marshals, who felt that even if Latvala or Miikka Antillia didn't see the spectator, they should have at least taken into consideration the possibility of hitting someone, given the crowd that was gathered.

 

[Stiggy]

I have to say, coverage of the power stage is brilliant. Hayden Paddon breaks a diff on his pass through, and decides to coast through to make sure he gets back to Monaco. Meanwhile, Elfyn Evans and Dani Sordo are both in the stage and flying - Sordo was blistering on the first run of the stage - so what does the television director do?

HE STAYS WITH PADDON.

Edit: And we just got the same thing with Neuville!

That would probably be down to how the helicopter was arranged to film the stage - it seemed to film the first car (Paddon) going through the whole stage on both of the runs through, and then return to the hairpin section for the next car to come through once the car arrived at the last section of the stage covered by cameras on the ground. In saying that, there's no reason why they couldn't cut to an onboard of Sordo's car though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Oh, I appreciate that it was down to the position of the helicopter - but there was also talk of using drones to capture footage. I don't see why they couldn't cover the first half of the stage with drones and the second with the helicopter. The first half of the stage was more interesting, anyway.

 

[twitcher]

Already covered:

God forbid posting a link with more info than your little paragraph. Posting info is not a competition

 

[boiltheocean]

Oh, I appreciate that it was down to the position of the helicopter - but there was also talk of using drones to capture footage. I don't see why they couldn't cover the first half of the stage with drones and the second with the helicopter. The first half of the stage was more interesting, anyway.

They're using consumer DJI drones as part of the arrangement, not the professional drones that have the ability to stream down broadcast quality footage mid-flight. Even the professional tech isn't good enough to replace or supplement helicopter footage.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Something has to be better than nothing. Like I said, there were plenty of onboard cameras. I'm surprised there weren't more fixed cameras, though. There was only one that I remember, back at the start. It was used to show replays of drivers taking off.

 

[knoxviue]

Ogier vs Latvala

 

[G_Parrilla]

Things you don't see in circuit racing #945721244:



I don't understand the reasoning behind "A car judt crashed there, lets all ten of us stad in the same exact spot", but well, it's rally. Super cool fans they are.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Autosport is reporting that Kris Meeke won't contest every round of Citroën's 2016 programme.

 

[Northstar]

Things you don't see in circuit racing #945721244:



I don't understand the reasoning behind "A car judt crashed there, lets all ten of us stad in the same exact spot", but well, it's rally. Super cool fans they are.

The most concerning part is the idiot that just stood there with his phone out. Sure he may have been flattened if that pole didn't work, but at least he got a (probably crappy) video to play at his funeral.

 

[Roo]

It was not planted. Or at least it was there from before the start.

*video*

Thank you for posting that, it's nice to be wrong! 👍