- 3,236
- England
- GTP_Owen
On the redbull page. And through gameplay we know it has a normal gearbox and a turbo meter.
I'm confused too.
X1 Prototype- WOW!
- Thread starter GT_Prologue5
- 875 comments
- 90,867 views
On the redbull page. And through gameplay we know it has a normal gearbox and a turbo meter.
I'm confused too.
- 160
- djanikowski
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
GT5 official website confirms it's a TT V6 in the list of specs and you can clearly hear gearchanges being made in that video which automatically rules out a CVT.
And F1 cars already produced those figures in qualification spec with turbo-charged inline-4's with a 1500cc engine displacement in the eighties.
- 403
- UKOG-jonboy
- jonboy1066
Personally I don't think so, I've just watched the video and my feelings are, Very nice, and very pretty etc....but what's the point?
Surely the time spent on all of that could've been spent elsewhere, why would I want a fake car in a racing simulator that is so unreal no-one could ever drive the real thing without G forces ripping their faces off.
If I wanted something like that in a game I'd buy Wipeout.
Total waste of time IMO
- 36,073
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Again, where do you and some others get this idea that this fictional car took time away from other features? Its not as if they dropped everything else just for the sake of only this car. Also, its not gonna "rip someone's face off" as its only pulling 8 Gs, pretty much the most the Human body can take. And did I mention unlike said game wipeout, it wasn't just made up and randomly had figures drawn onto it? I'm not suggesting that you like it, but your post really comes off as missinformed.
As for whats the point? Well, its a "what if"car. What if there were no rules or regulations regarding what you could do to a race car? Quite simply, that is Red Bull's answer.
As for whats the point? Well, its a "what if"car. What if there were no rules or regulations regarding what you could do to a race car? Quite simply, that is Red Bull's answer.
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- 6,804
- The Netherlands
It's not an answer to a question nobody asked before ( like how would a Nike car look like in the far future? ) but an answer ( or possible answer ) to the age-old question of how a racecar would, or could, look like or what performance figures it would reach when there were no regulations at all.
Sure it's a fantasy car but a fantasy based on realism imagined partly by one of the world's most reknown engineers and racecar designers ( not one who imagines without taking into account the laws of physics ).
And unlike a purely theoretic intellectual exercise ending up on paper only, you can actually experience it yourself in a videogame, what's not to like?
Sure it's a fantasy car but a fantasy based on realism imagined partly by one of the world's most reknown engineers and racecar designers ( not one who imagines without taking into account the laws of physics ).
And unlike a purely theoretic intellectual exercise ending up on paper only, you can actually experience it yourself in a videogame, what's not to like?
- 8
Looks like I have been proven wrong. Given that, I love how they did not change the body from the cylindrical exhaust that is associated with a gas turbine engine to something more along the lines current F1 aft sections. Ultimately I hope this is based on actual science and not PD just pushing the sliders to the max, we'll just have to wait and see.
- 88
- South africa
What makes me think they dropped everything for this? I don't know, maybe the fact that they made such a huge song and dance about it? Also it is possible that they could have added in a good feature instead - you said it yourself, they put a crapload of effort into making 'real figures and specs'. Why not add something like brake fade? Or clutch wear? And by the way, all the research in the world doesn't make this a real car. If this were any other game, GT fanboys would be comparing it to MarioKart.
- 2,021
- N. Ireland
- JamboGT
It was never an exhaust its the fan.
- 403
- UKOG-jonboy
- jonboy1066
Time spent doing one thing, is time not spent doing something else...simples. So approaching Adrian Newey, getting him to design it, making the car in the game, getting Seb Vet to drive it, making a video, would have all been time that could've been spent imporving other features.
ONLY 8G!!!! ONLY 8G!!!!???? Are you serious? Surely you understand that no human can stand that sort of repeated force without blacking out unless they wear a G suit and have some serious extensive training. At 4G Most humans will experience "Greying Out", at 4.5G Most will experience a loss of vision alltogether at 7-7.5G most wil pass out completely.
Not at all miss-informed, it's just not a part of the game that flicks my switch, I am entitled to that opinion aren't I? I'm sure there'll be lots of other parts of the game that I won't want to play either.
Yeah I can see that, but as GT has always called itself "The Real Driving Simulator" I personally have no need for a "What If" Fictional car that no mortal could actually drive.
- 36,073
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
And this is different to them showing off the weather and effects at TGS?
However, it doesn't necessarily mean they jsut dropped everything else. Remember, Adrian Newey had a huge contribution to it so its not as it it was just PD doing it, As for those features you mention, you seem to have missed the news article that contains those, which seems to further indicate the X1 didn't "take away time" from the other features.
Where did I say it was real?
Kinda like you are comparing it to wipeout now?
- 403
- UKOG-jonboy
- jonboy1066
This is very true!
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- Japan
I'd like to remember you that 8G is the calculated theoretical maximum with Super Soft tires (Vettel was driving with them as can be seen in the video).
- 2,021
- N. Ireland
- JamboGT
So the fact that they got one of the greatest race car designers of all time to work with them on making a car makes it like Mario Kart?
One of the great things about GT and one of the things that makes GT great is its links to the industry, this furthers that. How is that a bad thing?
One of the great things about GT and one of the things that makes GT great is its links to the industry, this furthers that. How is that a bad thing?
- 403
- UKOG-jonboy
- jonboy1066
Not at all, what we're getting at is that there are plenty of pathetic fanboys that (if they had seen a car like that on any game that wasn't GT5) would have compared it to MarioKart but since it's on GT5 they proclaim it to be great. I just see it as a waste and a chance lost of a potential more important feature being included in what is nevertheless going to be a great game with or without the X1.
- 2,021
- N. Ireland
- JamboGT
Well if someone was to do that they have no idea about motorsport. I personally don't see it as a waste. As a past engineering student and someone who has an interest in chassis and aero technology I am very interested to see Neweys designs, to see what they can do. One car is not going to take that much development time, what would you have them do instead?
- 36,073
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
But again, how does it automatically indicate that they just dropped everything for this? How do you necessarily know that they weren't working on other features at the same time? Lets remember that PD wasn't the only one that designed the car.
Then it must take a fighter pilot to drive it since they experiance that much consistantly.
You sure are entitled to that and I have no right nor did I intend to stop you from doing so, I say that it comes off "missinformed" as it just seems you're judging something based on what you see and not looking deeper into it.
Indeed, they do. However as I stated earlier, the car doesn't necessarily need to be real and doesn't actually take away from that moniker (which unfortunately cannot be said about the Nike ONE) as it realistically simulates what that u;timate race car would look like without all those regulations and the return of forbidden elements like the Venturi tunnels and the fan. Just because you or I couldn't drive it (I doubt we are anywhere in shape to drive it
) doesn't necessarily mean nobody can. But hey thats your choice not to drive it.
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
Sorry if I wasnt clear on the matter of the car. Yes in the current shape of the mid ship area of the X-1 with out the fan system and other aero parts placed at mid ship it will give lift. If you look at the top view of the X-1 youll see a set of reversed wings these wings are very similar to the front nose wings of the X-29 Thrust Vectoring Jet which was developed in the late 80s early 90s. Now these wings work in conjunction with the front nose. As we know the front wing passes air over the car making down force; and you can see that the front wings are just a single plan design rather than two or three wing design. With the placement and angle it passes not only over the car but through the controlling arms and over the center body canards. The placement of the canards will direct the air over the rear mid ship of the body, the front inlets of the turbine bay and to the second diffuser. Now a low pressure effect will happen in these areas allow the air over the car to move faster pushing that area of the car down. Now with the Turbine fan system in place with the main intake diffuser air under the car sucking air from under will affect a greater low pressure area than on top. Allowing that air to move six to eight time faster than the air on top; now with the lower pressures being caused by the main intake and second diffusers will allow the air under and over the car to travel faster creating the down force needed.
Thrust Gear Box...
A thrust gear box is a series of fans linked to a primary shaft driven by the thrust of the exhaust coming from the turbine. If this type of set up was designed to work with a standard transmission it wouldnt stand the force the turbine engine creates. It would blow into shards at 5,000 rpm. But designed with a Variable Transmission which would only have one static shaped belt with four shaping cones; but maybe in this case two to three belts s and 12 shaping cones will be needed. Now this type of transmission would be able to stand the force of a Turbine Engine due to its lower number of moving parts. The only down fall of this type of design up to 85% of torque is lost. Thats why the X-1 is able to produce 527lb ft @ 12,000RPM. If the variable transmission would be able to be re-designed it should be able to produce 1600lb ft @ 12,00RPM. But then youll in the area of designing axles and tires to put that power to the ground.
Thrust Gear Box...
A thrust gear box is a series of fans linked to a primary shaft driven by the thrust of the exhaust coming from the turbine. If this type of set up was designed to work with a standard transmission it wouldnt stand the force the turbine engine creates. It would blow into shards at 5,000 rpm. But designed with a Variable Transmission which would only have one static shaped belt with four shaping cones; but maybe in this case two to three belts s and 12 shaping cones will be needed. Now this type of transmission would be able to stand the force of a Turbine Engine due to its lower number of moving parts. The only down fall of this type of design up to 85% of torque is lost. Thats why the X-1 is able to produce 527lb ft @ 12,000RPM. If the variable transmission would be able to be re-designed it should be able to produce 1600lb ft @ 12,00RPM. But then youll in the area of designing axles and tires to put that power to the ground.
- 8
Proven wrong, yet again.
Ultimately I was just hoping that a gas turbine was going to be used within a car, especially since its power to weight ratio is insane. I am sort of excited for this car now, but ultimately feel that it will be so powerful that it will feel like an arcade car. Should be fun to play with online though, like really fast bumper cars.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
If something which doesn't exists in real life gets replicated in a game it's therefore automatically an arcade style impossibility?
What about those tuned-cars in Prologue or the pre-order Stealth cars?
Yes they're based on existing cars ( but still don't exist too ) but the X1 is based on a realistic theory, realistic technology and realistic specification running on the same physics engine as the rest of the cars, if those cars are simulated than the X1 is too, in short no MarioKart ( even Mario's kart would behave differently running on GT5 physics-engine ).
And even when this car would take more time than other Premium cars purely for the back and forth communication it required between Kaz and Newey I don't think it took that much more time to create, as real life Premium cars require gathering and measuring immense amounts of data to be modelled accurately and painstakingly whilst the X1 could be modelled straight away whilst designing it I guess.
Anyway, it's in fact just another job for the modelling team not taking away development time for implementing or developing the features you mentioned as they're done by a different team of programmers who aren't modellers.
And as much flack they, in my opinion rightfully, take for this whole delay debacle, if there's one thing that truly separates PD from other racing titles it's the interaction they have with the car industry itself.
No other game developer can claim to have designed a dashboard instument panel for Nissan's current halo-car ( GT-R ), coöperated with Citroën to design a concept car or invited one of the most respected racecar designer at the top of his game to contribute to a car purely designed for their videogame.
So yes it's logical they're proudly showing off this endresult as this hasn't been done before ( ignoring that cynical marketing opportunity that was the Nike concept car which simply doesn't compare ) and if anything it establishes the name of GT further into the automotive industry making getting licences or future relationships with carmakers easier ( getting certain new cars modelled earlier, etc. ).
- 160
- djanikowski
How do you they haven't added these?
- 88
- South africa
The tuned cars actually do exist in real life - it's possible to buy most of them as modification packages from certain companies. Even if they weren't, they're based on actual production cars, which have been modified using viable, existing parts. The same goes for the stealth cars. Therefore there is no problem with them. The X1? There is nothing, and I mean nothing, on four wheels that could be called a real life counterpart. It exists solely in the digital world. Along with many other undoubtedly fine inventions. So yes, for now it is an arcade style impossibility. As for the rest of your post, I agree, it's great that PD has such a strong relationship with the car industry.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
No those particular tuned cars in Prologue ( and the Stealth cars ) don't exist in real life, something similar no doubt does exists but these vehicles are created by PD but that's hardly relevant anyway in this discussion.
And ofcourse there's absolutely nothing in real life that compares to the X1 because that's the whole point of this exercise!
If something similar did exist why even comtemplate creating a unique car in the first place?
The fact it can exist at all, even only in digital form, is due to the possibilities created by a videogame or simulator and thereby enhances and broadens realism ( or perception of realism ), not narrows it in my view ( as it shows not only what there is but could be theoretically and realistically under different circumstances, read rules not laws of physics ).
It could be made as all technology already exists ( and designed by someone other than PD who knows his stuff and with him being an engineer foremost, not a science fiction author ) and therefore it becomes a credible possibility in my book, not an arcade racer ( to claim that is just pure unfiltered ignorance ).
Ladder Set 7
Premium
- 125
- Wales
They haven't made the game just for you so they don't have to just make you happy, it's their game and it's theirs to chose what goes in and what doesn't.
I'm not talking about you in particular but it seems to be a common misconception that Polyphony have to get permission to do things in the game from their potential customers. They don't and I'm glad of that as if they did the previous Gran Turismo games would not have been the games that they were.
Although masses of people contribute to these games they are all Kazunori Yamauchi's vision of a what the real driving simulator should be, they've not been designed by a committee let alone by the millions of people who have played them in the past and that's a part of what makes them so special for me.
He's correct to note what people are saying about his games but anything that goes in that game goes in the game on his terms. Maybe people won't like everything that's the game, it's quite possible that I won't like everything but I'll understand that they've not made the game for just me. I really had no interest in NASCAR being included at first but I'm looking forward to trying and even watched a bit (Not much) on telly because of Gran Turismo 5.
Although none of the games have been perfect I'm yet to find another driving game that comes close to them as a complete package, other games do beat the them in different areas but there isn't one game that comes even lose to matching it in all areas let alone beating it.
I'm personally very glad that they've created the X1 Prototype with Red Bull because if it wasn't for Gran Turismo 5 and Kazunori Yamauchi's unique vision that car would probably never have got any further than a few disparate ideas in Adrian Newey's perfectly aerodynamic brain.
Red Bull will surely have spent quite some time getting that car to be what it is through simulated testing and I imagine that they've learnt things from designing it as they would with designing anything. Even though we'll probably never see an X1 being produced I wouldn't be surprised if the learning they've gained from this project is used in development of other cars in some small way without us even noticing it happening.
Anyway, I like the car even though it'd probably make my kidneys fall out of my fear filled eyes if I ever got to drive a real one, not that I'd dare go any faster than about 10mph in a car with that sort of power to be honest. I like that Kazunori Yamauchi is willing to do things his way and I like that he wants to do things in the series that other companies haven't done.
pplschmpion
(Banned)
- 14
This is concept in the purest form.
I would love to see an Apple Computer concept car. i1
I would love to see an Apple Computer concept car. i1
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
I wouldn't mind Tonka having ago.
- 2,095
- Burke, Fairfax,
- GTP_STRIKER
- Xbox SUCKS
Yes with a CVT and Turbine engine; a thrust gear box will be the best and safest way to transfer power to the CVT. Also why a CVT was chosen for the power planet; its able to handle major amount of stress loaded with out exploding and its able to vary to cone position to optimize the power its able to transfer. We received these first prints of specs.
Engine: gas turbine, 1483bhp @ 15,000RPM, 527lb ft @ 12,000RPM
Transmission: continuously variable, rear-wheel drive
Now from what Ive seen on the form the power planet in now a twin turbo Charged V-6.
GT5 official website confirms it's a TT V6 in the list of specs and you can clearly hear gear changes being made in that video which automatically rules out a CVT.
And I looked at the specs as well; yes a TT V6 is very capable of making that type of power, though how will they power the primary and secondary fans? Are the fans pressures or 4 axes differentials now? What type of fuel will it be using and will it keep the engine cool enough along with its other heat extractors will it with stand heat soak. Pending on the new info we got the X-1 will only perform and its maximum only for a short time to me. That amount of time well have no idea...
Though Im still going with the first specs we got. One other thing a CVT under load transferring power will sound like a transmission gear changing. The wine up and change you hear is the acceleration of the belts and cones and the power transfer between them.
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- South africa
I understand what you're saying-that it may be possible to build an X1. But nobody has built one. That's the issue I have. I've always loved GT for enabling me to drive accurate recreations of real cars. It would just bug me to know that I'll never be able to drive such a car in real life. If Red Bull does make one, I'll happily eat my words. But anyway, each to his own.
